The passing game through 6 games, 2018 vs. 2019.

[shasta519]

7 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

The excuses made for Luck are phenomenal. 

 

I don't know...you seem to cherry-picking his bad games. For what it's worth...JB was actually worse vs. KC (who didn't have the same pass rush)...but his defense picked him up. 

[Four2itus]

3 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

Brissett still makes one turn over a game so let's hope this Sunday there are no turnovers

For comparison, Brady averaged 13 int/year for his first 6 years as a starter. That does not include fumbles for total turnovers. 

[EastStreet]

15 minutes ago, stitches said:

IMO this is not the main reason for Brissett having lower INT/Attempt and TD/INT... Brissett is just safer with the ball. I have no problem saying that. The problem is this is also a symptom of some negatives for Brissett too - extremely conservative, very little playmaking and big time throws, missing throws that need to be made, lack of anticipation throwing, etc...

 

Their AGG% pretty similar (16.5 vs 18.0), which surprised me. I think JB's will go up as we play teams with better passing Ds. I think both suffered a bit from throwing it to TY too much (for different reasons) when he is doubled. Luck threw to TY too much because he was short on options. So far JB has thrown a bit too much to TY partly because he struggles with progressions. 

 

 

Quote

 

Aggressiveness (AGG%)

Aggressiveness tracks the amount of passing attempts a quarterback makes that are into tight coverage, where there is a defender within 1 yard or less of the receiver at the time of completion or incompletion. AGG is shown as a % of attempts into tight windows over all passing attempts.

 

 

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, Calmack said:

I have seen it. Some even saying they prefer Brisset to Luck. It's hilarious. At some point people are going to have to unglue their eyes from the stat book and just see the huge chasm of QB play between Luck and Brissett. This year, JBs stats are benefiting greatly by a completely gelled dominant Oline, solid running game, and amazing playcalling/scheming to get guys running free (like against Houston). Point blank, I like Brissett. Just not as much as others do...

 

Yeah...Reich does a pretty damn good job of scheming open short routes (misdirection, rub routes, picks, etc.)...and those have become the early reads. I love the efficiency.

 

Last year, Luck still looked for the deep play...which is partly why Ebron had such a monster year because he was the beneficiary of being wide open downfield.

 

Also...let's be objective here...according to pass defense EXP...ATL is #32, OAK is #30, LAC is #27 and HOU is #23 (AND they had an injured secondary). KC and TEN are both in the top 10 in pass defense...and in those two games JB has 297 yards total and a 3 TDs and 2 INTs...and 5.2 Y/A (even lower AY/A). Correlation is not causation...but hard to ignore the gap in stats...as well as the eye test from those games.

 

DEN's pass defense (if Chris Harris isn't traded) is much more TEN than it is ATL or OAK...so I am interested to see what happens tomorrow.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

25 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

You can't really compare the two sets of games...Luck was new to the scheme and fresh off an 18-month shoulder injury...and the OL hadn't gelled.

 

I get the sample size of games is the same...but it's still arbitrary...and it conveniently leaves out that Luck (and the offense) was All Pro over the following 5 games (games 7-11)...putting up 35 pts/game. I am going to assume there won't be one of these comp threads after the next five game stretch.

 

 

 

 

We have a team or two we might be able to put some points up on.

[EastStreet]

23 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

The excuses made for Luck are phenomenal. 

facts are facts. and context is needed. i see far more blind sunshine pumping by people who ignore stats and context, than I see excuses for Luck. it is what it is.

 

And I was never a huge fan of Luck... 

[shasta519]

6 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

We have a team or two we might be able to put some points up on.

 

MIA and HOU (but this time on the road) are the only two teams with poor pass defenses in the next 6 games.

 

Then the Colts have their NFC South tour to end the season...those games are going to be huge.

[shasta519]

7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

facts are facts. and context is needed. i see far more blind sunshine pumping by people who ignore stats and context, than I see excuses for Luck. it is what it is.

 

And I was never a huge fan of Luck... 

 

And many Colts fans make excuses for their QBs...it's a cornerstone of Colts fandom...haha

[Creekside]

52 minutes ago, Calmack said:

 

 

However, if/when we're in the playoffs and we need that QB who can make that 0.5% throw, use amazing pocket presence to avoid a surefire sack, or will his team to a win (ex. KC playoff game) 

 

 

It's an illusion. Your memory is playing tricks on you.

 

You speak as though the KC game was the only time Luck wasn't able to pull it out.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

MIA and HOU (but this time on the road) are the only two teams with poor pass defenses in the next 6 games.

 

Then the Colts have their NFC South tour to end the season...those games are going to be huge.

I think the offense will get better as the season goes on. Getting funchess back and hopefully Campbell and Cain progressing more we will start to put up some more points. We still need to be more balanced. Last game or sure would of been nice to run the ball and run out the clock. We need to be able to run when we need to. If we can get the passing game to get 250 yards and the run game about 150 yards I think we will score more points. I think the team is not quite there yet on being balanced. We either have a fantastic run game or a fantastic pass game. 

[Calmack]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

 

 

It's an illusion. Your memory is playing tricks on you.

 

You speak as though the KC game was the only time Luck wasn't able to pull it out.

Can you explain how my memory is playing tricks on me? 

[shasta519]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

 

 

It's an illusion. Your memory is playing tricks on you.

 

You speak as though the KC game was the only time Luck wasn't able to pull it out.

 

Luck did suck against NE...but it's not like they weren't the far better team. And overall he Luck was 4-4 in the playoffs...not bad at all. 

 

Manning had the same issues...especially with NE (until his third time around)...and Manning was only 9-10 as a Colts in the playoffs...with far better teams than Luck had I would argue.

 

I would have liked to see what Luck could have done at this age and with a better team around him.

[Creekside]

3 minutes ago, Calmack said:

Can you explain how my memory is playing tricks on me? 

 

The Colts lost many games where Luck tried but failed to win the game with .05% attempt passes that you mention. It's not like he always saved the day except for the KC game as you suggest.

[NannyMcafee]

3 hours ago, Calmack said:

Grasping at whatever they can to somehow put Brisset anywhere near Lucks level.

 

Don't get me wrong. I like Brisset. But we went from a bonafide contender to maybe a wild-card win after Lucks retirement.

 

If you measure a QBs greatness by his talent level then that says to me, you arent a great QB evaluator. I have been watching Brissett much more closely since his start, not just playing time but his off field presence. Brissett is showing a leadership I have yet to see in a Colts uniform. I'm not going to sit here and act like he is in the same league talent wise. But just seeing his leadership, and then finding out he was the one who called the players meeting last year that turned around a 1-5 start. 

 

As for a bonafide SB contender because of Andrew, we saw what happened after 2014... some of us here have mentioned puppy dog eyes when the game gets to a high level. Same thing vs the Patriots happened and the Same thing vs the Cheifs. 

 

You're always going to hear them say their starting QB is a great leader, but you rarely see it off field like we do in his lockerroom speeches. 

 

This team wins and loses as a team. They grind out wins together like I have yet to have seen this team do. And to ge quite Frank that makes me feel a lot more at ease than I did when Andrew was at the helm. Would it be an interception? Is that going to injur him? Will he ever recover? If it wasn't one thing it was another. I am one of the few that is relieved to see the Andrew Luck era come to a close. 

 

I dont need Brissett to be Superman. I need him to protect the ball and be a great leader, and not get in the way of the other players ability to help this team win. 

[jvan1973]

24 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

facts are facts. and context is needed. i see far more blind sunshine pumping by people who ignore stats and context, than I see excuses for Luck. it is what it is.

 

And I was never a huge fan of Luck... 

I think the vast majority of the fan base would agree,   Luck is a better player.   Unfortunately,   he isn't our qb anymore.     Jacoby is.   Time to move on.  Comparing them is futile as we only have Jacoby to choose from.   He has balled out.   Enjoy the ride

[NewColtsFan]

59 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

The excuses made for Luck are phenomenal. 

The negative comments made about Luck here are even far more phenomenal.   But everyone gets their opinion here.   Even the most uninformed. 

[Calmack]

15 minutes ago, egg said:

 

The Colts lost many games where Luck tried but failed to win the game with .05% attempt passes that you mention. It's not like he always saved the day except for the KC game as you suggest.

He at least showed he can make those passes. I have yet to see a pass like that from Brissett this year. Brissett's "career game" last week consisted of shallow crossing routes to wide open receivers. His "4th" TD was nothing that should even be considered a pass, but a 2 yard handoff to a runner. It was funny seeing everyone overjoyed with his excellent game where he hit wide open guys over and over again on crosses. 

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, Calmack said:

He at least showed he can make those passes. I have yet to see a pass like that from Brissett this year. Brissett's "career game" last week consisted of shallow crossing routes to wide open receivers. His "4th" TD was nothing that should even be considered a pass, but a 2 yard handoff to a runner. It was funny seeing everyone overjoyed with his excellent game where he hit wide open guys over and over again on crosses. 

Did you ever watch a Bill Walsh offense?  Short passes, take a shot a few times a game.    Jacoby has made quite a few great throws this year.    If you have ESPN+ .  I suggest watching Peyton's breakdown of Jacobys game against the Texans.   I'll take his knowledgeable opinion over anyone's 

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, Calmack said:

This offense if humming I agree. But it isn't the QB play anymore that's carrying us. And that's fine

The past QB play carried AND killed us.

Too many interceptions for my liking.  And FAR too many for a 7th or 8th year "franchise" QB.  Along with the "ooh and ahh"

plays, we could always count on 1 or 2 bonehead plays that hur our chances badly.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Colts offense looks a lot like the early years of Brady with NE.

[Calmack]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Did you ever watch a Bill Walsh offense?  Short passes, take a shot a few times a game.    Jacoby has made quite a few great throws this year.    If you have ESPN+ .  I suggest watching Peyton's breakdown of Jacobys game against the Texans.   I'll take his knowledgeable opinion over anyone's 

I'll definitely look into that 

[EastStreet]

33 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

And many Colts fans make excuses for their QBs...it's a cornerstone of Colts fandom...haha

 

Yup. Following Manning was hard for Luck. Following Luck is hard for JB. It's just the way things are. All QBs have good and bad games. Some have more talent, some have more talent around them. It's challenging looking at stats and comparing QBs, and it's even harder looking at QB performance given the context of the talent surrounding them. I don't think there's any question that JB has probably the most solid team around him than any Colt's QB has had in many years. 

 

12 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

I think the vast majority of the fan base would agree,   Luck is a better player.   Unfortunately,   he isn't our qb anymore.     Jacoby is.   Time to move on.  Comparing them is futile as we only have Jacoby to choose from.   He has balled out.   Enjoy the ride

 

I'd say Luck had more raw talent. He had great field vision, could read Ds well, and could run through progressions quickly. He was also asked to do a lot with subpar coaching and some pretty bad teams around him. 

 

That said, I'm over it. I was far more disappointed when they let Manning go. Personally I'm giving JB the year to show his stuff. Unless he goes completely off the tracks, he's doing enough thus far. Last week was fantastic, but it's only one game. I think his true test will be the last 7 games of the season. We should be 7-2 at that point, and would be in prime position for a bye. 

 

As far as comparisons are concerned.... it's just natural, so get used to it. It's going to to happen the rest of the year. If we get a bye, and win the first game (moving to the AFC championship), folks will likely forget about comparisons. If we don't, it'll continue. We've been a QB driven team for 2 decades, and nobody should be surprised that many want to stay with that narrative. 

[Four2itus]

It is possible that Jacoby Brissett is a better leader in the locker room than either Manning or Luck. However, exalting one great Colt by diminishing another serves only those who wish to see negatives. 

 

Manning, Andrew, and Jacoby...all three....have brought something great to this franchise. I am excited to see what else Jacoby brings in the future. 

[jskinnz]

13 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

It is possible that Jacoby Brissett is a better leader in the locker room than either Manning or Luck. However, exalting one great Colt by diminishing another serves only those who wish to see negatives. 

 

Manning, Andrew, and Jacoby...all three....have brought something great to this franchise. I am excited to see what else Jacoby brings in the future. 

 

So absolutely well said.

[pacolts56]

Kelly > Brissett > Luck!!

 

 

 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

1 hour ago, Four2itus said:

It is possible that Jacoby Brissett is a better leader in the locker room than either Manning or Luck. However, exalting one great Colt by diminishing another serves only those who wish to see negatives. 

 

Manning, Andrew, and Jacoby...all three....have brought something great to this franchise. I am excited to see what else Jacoby brings in the future. 

 

1 hour ago, jskinnz said:

 

So absolutely well said.

 

^This^  and  ^This^

 

We can go round and round til the cows come home comparing Colts QBs with each other, or with other QBs like Brady, about who is more talented, who can make all the throws, who has better stats, who is the better leader, etc.

 

The bottom line is we are fortunate to have the history of QBs that we do as Colts fans.  And I can't wait to see what Jacoby does with the team Ballard has built around him.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I love what Brissett is doing, he is even doing better than I thought. I am a huge supporter of him but lets not get carried away and say he is as great as Andrew Luck was. We are still only 6 games in as well, lets see where we are at through 10 games. Brissett played terrific last week against a good team/division rival, lets see if he can continue it.

[Imgrandojji]

6 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

The former quarterback had to rely on his arm because the running game was not that good early. The running game has been fantastic and Brissett is playing well trying to avoid mistakes. Brissett still makes one turn over a game so let's hope this Sunday there are no turnovers

For most of the NFL keeping the offense to one turnover a game would be an unheard of luxury.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

For me comparing  to last year is interesting. Not to compare QB, but it really shows how good of a team we have built and how good of a coach Reich is. Not to mention how smart Ballard was seeing JB potential. 

 

I had thought without Luck we might really expose some of the holes our team had. When you have a QB like him it can mask shortcomings. What we have seen so far we really don’t have any glaring weaknesses. It does also show that JB was ready to start in this league. He has been given a huge advantage to be handed a team this good. Not every QB though could of stepped into this situation and played this well. 

[MacDee1975]

5 hours ago, stitches said:

It wasn't about the number of throws. He was throwing a ton from game 1.... It was about the average depth of target and about the velocity on his balls on any throw over 15 yards dowfield...he was dinking and dunking a ton and whenever he tried some more ambitious passes the ball seemed to float on him and lack velocity. 

 

Yeah, I remember people *said* there was a "lack of velocity."  I never saw any lack of velocity, though.  And I know there were no facts to substantiate such a statement.  Only Colts.com message board posters were saying that....which carries zero weight with me.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

33 minutes ago, MacDee1975 said:

Only Colts.com message board posters were saying that....which carries zero weight with me.

 

Ummm... you're a Colts.com message board poster...

 

Does that mean what you say should carry zero weight with the rest of us?  

[coltsfan_canada]

The responses are so funny, but I really appreciate OP for spending his personal time to show us some numbers that Jacoby is doing a good job. Above responses "Dont compare luck to JB" but then goes about OL was not gelling or had no run game, or had no arm power etc. All in all JB is doing great job, kid is balling and I love he is the COLTS. He is no turnover machine, and he is very young, and he will only get better as he built more and more chemistry with his receivers. 

[ojsglove]

Wow 2 more pages to add to the Luck mega thread.

[MacDee1975]

56 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Ummm... you're a Colts.com message board poster...

 

Does that mean what you say should carry zero weight with the rest of us?  

 

On something like that.....yes!

 

If Tom House comments on Luck's velocity, i'm listening.

 

If "ColtLover4Life" from Colts.com comments that Luck just doesn't look the same after viewing the game closely on tv from his couch.....I really don't give a crap.

[stitches]

4 hours ago, MacDee1975 said:

 

On something like that.....yes!

 

If Tom House comments on Luck's velocity, i'm listening.

 

If "ColtLover4Life" from Colts.com comments that Luck just doesn't look the same after viewing the game closely on tv from his couch.....I really don't give a crap.

Why are you here then? I don't want this to sound disparaging. I'm legitimately curious why would someone come to a forum where pretty much everybody is "viewing the games closely on tv from his couch" if you "don't give a crap" about what the other people here have to say about the team and its players? This type of attitude is extremely weird to me.

[Nickster]

14 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

The excuses made for Luck are phenomenal. 

Leaven Clark was the left tackle.  That’s really all that needs to be said and every one should just say ”oh yeah.  How’d he do after that?”

 

silly 

[Imgrandojji]

4 hours ago, stitches said:

Why are you here then?

 

Beause there's a difference between authoritative commentary and friendly chat between fellow fans.  I'm here for the latter because I know I can't provide the former.

[Tsarquise]

13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

The negative comments made about Luck here are even far more phenomenal.   But everyone gets their opinion here.   Even the most uninformed. 

You're right, everyone does have a right to their opinion here: the Andrew Luck stans, and even the peasants who have never worked in the media. 

[Tsarquise]

14 hours ago, EastStreet said:

facts are facts. and context is needed. i see far more blind sunshine pumping by people who ignore stats and context, than I see excuses for Luck. it is what it is.

 

And I was never a huge fan of Luck... 

Luck was a more skilled QB than Brissett is now, but who knows what the future holds. Brissett has pleasantly surprised me. 

 

But the bottom line is points scored, and with Brissett at the helm instead of Andrew Luck, there has not been a significant difference in scoring from last year.  

Just get tired of people talking about Luck as if he was infallible or as if he was Manning i.e. (once in a generation QB who could take transform a 2-14 team to a 12-4 or better team). 

 

But, yeah, I agree, context is important. Too bad we couldn't see Luck's performance this year. 

 

[stitches]

55 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

Beause there's a difference between authoritative commentary and friendly chat between fellow fans.  I'm here for the latter because I know I can't provide the former.

 

I try to engage in pretty much every interaction here in a friendly manner, which doesn't mean I won't state my disagreements with other fans. With very few extremely rare exceptions I have not seen anyone assert their authority here and the ones that do actually say it out loud and quite honestly don't inspire any more confidence in me than any other person on the site(arguments from authority not being my favorite thing). 

 

We are ALL fans here. I am willing to bet that the % of people here ever hired by an NFL team to do anything football related is extremely low, if not nil. So when people come here to talk Colts and football and see something they don't like or disagree with, what's the point of saying you don't give a crap about the opinions of the people here? You know what you are getting here, close to zero people on this forum have ever pretended to be more than what everyone else here is(a fan)... what's the point of those comments and why are you here if you know what you are getting pretty much 100% of the time here and you don't give a crap about it? To me this is either trolling or dishonest way to dismiss opinions you don't like. (the 'you' in this paragraph is not directed specifically at you, Imgrandojji, but rather at the general 'you' of people that make statements like this)

 

I might not like some of your arguments and evaluations about Brissett, for example. Have I ever pulled the "well u just watch games on TV and you are nobody so I don't give a crap about your opinion"? This is such a silly nonsense rhetoric. Yes, you are nobody, and I am nobody. We are not here because we are somebodies in the football world. We are here because we are fans and we can talk friendly or sometimes passionately about the team we love with everything that goes with it and with all the agreements and disagreements we have. 

 

Anyways... I apologize for derailing the thread that @t-rex put some work in.