Jalen Ramsey to the Rams - What it means for Colts

[shastamasta 2,015]

What intrigues me about this trade...and the Tunsil trade...is the willingness to trade multiple 1st round picks. Seems like teams are more willing to give up valuable draft assets than ever before. Maybe a big reason for that is urgency for competitive windows...but part of me wonders if it relevant to the upcoming CBA. Do they know something about rookie contract changes that we don't...quicker path to FA and less cost control perhaps? 

[Coffeedrinker 7,003]

14 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

What intrigues me about this trade...and the Tunsil trade...is the willingness to trade multiple 1st round picks. Seems like teams are more willing to give up valuable draft assets than ever before. Maybe a big reason for that is urgency for competitive windows...but part of me wonders if it relevant to the upcoming CBA. Do they know something about rookie contract changes that we don't...quicker path to FA and less cost control perhaps? 

That's a good point.

[LuckyHorseShoe§ 308]

Two first rounds and a fourth round for Jalen Ramsey? Really? The guy is a massive jerk, totally self-centered, doesn’t care about the team, and I’m still not convinced he’s as good as advertised. Thank God it wasn’t us who made that deal, Jags got a haul for a guy who wasn’t going to play for them anymore anyway.

[aaron11 2,315]

15 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

What intrigues me about this trade...and the Tunsil trade...is the willingness to trade multiple 1st round picks. Seems like teams are more willing to give up valuable draft assets than ever before. Maybe a big reason for that is urgency for competitive windows...but part of me wonders if it relevant to the upcoming CBA. Do they know something about rookie contract changes that we don't...quicker path to FA and less cost control perhaps? 

i think the rams just want to go all in for a SB while they still have AD and TG

 

texans had to protect watson and for some reason didnt do much to that effect until the trade 

[runthepost 781]

37 minutes ago, LuckyHorseShoe§ said:

Two first rounds and a fourth round for Jalen Ramsey? Really? The guy is a massive jerk, totally self-centered, doesn’t care about the team, and I’m still not convinced he’s as good as advertised. Thank God it wasn’t us who made that deal, Jags got a haul for a guy who wasn’t going to play for them anymore anyway.

Top 3 corner when healthy but it’s too much for a trade.

[shakedownstreet 6,897]

5 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

   Thank God the Colts weren’t going to give up consecutive 1st rounders for this guy! Talented player, but when things go bad, he’s the type to cause dissension.

   It’s like going after a woman that looks good but will leave you, when times get tough.

  “Sometimes, the best deals you make are the ones you don’t make”. Bravo CB!

 

Couldn't have said it better. He didn't really become a big problem until they 'almost' beat the Patriots in the AFCCG

[csmopar 8,559]

15 hours ago, Myles said:

This year got easier, the next 5 got harder.

Having 2 firsts 2 years in a row would be awesome.  

They had like 10-12 year run of being top 15 in the draft order... just saying

[shastamasta 2,015]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

i think the rams just want to go all in for a SB while they still have AD and TG

 

texans had to protect watson and for some reason didnt do much to that effect until the trade 

 

There is definitely urgency for the LAR (and HOU as well)...however...only one year ago giving up 2 1st round picks seemed pretty damn expensive even for a 27 year-old Khalil Mack...arguably a top 5 player in the NFL at the second-most coveted position.

 

Before last season...that same LAR team acquired Marcus Peters (a 2x Pro Bowler and 1x All-Pro) with two years of cost control left (4th year + 5th year option). Now Ramsey...who is also a 2x Pro Bowler and 1x All-Pro...but with 1.5+ years of cost control left (rest of this season + 5th year option) costs TWO 1st round picks. Both had off-field "issues"...and Ramsey's success was more recent...but if Peters wasn't on Ramsey's level at the time of that trade...he wasn't far below.

 

Just a massive difference in trade value. There seems to be a shift in trade dynamics happening. But what is the fulcrum for that?

 

Some have argued that 1st round picks (after the top 5-10) are inherently overvalued because of the value vs. their contracts...and that Day Two picks actually have more surplus value. Not sure if I agree with this necessarily...though I do think Day Two picks can be incredibly undervalued.

 

But could it be something else...like rookie cost control...which will certainly be part of the new CBA negotiations (especially with guys starting to hold out after the 3rd year of their rookie deals). If teams knew...going forward...that rookies were now going to hit FA after 4 years (no 5th year option)...that could (for some teams) take away a good chunk of value (relative to other draft picks like Day Two picks)...especially when you consider that 1st round contracts are fully gtd while others are not...and therefore carry more risk.

 

If you were confident in your scouting department to scout better than other teams...you might think you can still get top tier talent on Day Two...so how much does a late/r fully-gtd 1st round pick (without a 5th year team option) really have to you? Probably not as much as it used to...which makes them more expendable to trade for established top tier talent.

[runthepost 781]

10 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

There is definitely urgency for the LAR (and HOU as well)...however...only one year ago giving up 2 1st round picks seemed pretty damn expensive even for a 27 year-old Khalil Mack...arguably a top 5 player in the NFL at the second-most coveted position.

 

Before last season...that same LAR team acquired Marcus Peters (a 2x Pro Bowler and 1x All-Pro) with two years of cost control left (4th year + 5th year option). Now Ramsey...who is also a 2x Pro Bowler and 1x All-Pro...but with 1.5+ years of cost control left (rest of this season + 5th year option) costs TWO 1st round picks. Both had off-field "issues"...and Ramsey's success was more recent...but if Peters wasn't on Ramsey's level at the time of that trade...he wasn't far below.

 

Just a massive difference in trade value. There seems to be a shift in trade dynamics happening. But what is the fulcrum for that?

 

Some have argued that 1st round picks (after the top 5-10) are inherently overvalued because of the value vs. their contracts...and that Day Two picks actually have more surplus value. Not sure if I agree with this necessarily...though I do think Day Two picks can be incredibly undervalued.

 

But could it be something else...like rookie cost control...which will certainly be part of the new CBA negotiations (especially with guys starting to hold out after the 3rd year of their rookie deals). If teams knew...going forward...that rookies were now going to hit FA after 4 years (no 5th year option)...that could (for some teams) take away a good chunk of value (relative to other draft picks like Day Two picks)...especially when you consider that 1st round contracts are fully gtd while others are not...and therefore carry more risk.

 

If you were confident in your scouting department to scout better than other teams...you might think you can still get top tier talent on Day Two...so how much does a late/r fully-gtd 1st round pick (without a 5th year team option) really have to you? Probably not as much as it used to...which makes them more expendable to trade for established top tier talent.

Good point but I don’t think Ramsey has had any off the field issues no arrest or news stories. He held out for a family related issue that’s about it.

[BigQungus 239]

My Jalen Ramsey haiku:

 

Jalen Ramsey trade

Explains Marcus Peters trade

But they got ripped off.

 

 

Thank you 

[WoolMagnet 3,939]

4 hours ago, coltsva said:

Heck, the Rams are desperate trying to win a wild card spot now. 

Haha. True

they got a taste last year 

[IinD 2,669]

Rams trying hard to win one before they become the St.Louis Rams again.

 

Buying talent on the fly rarely works. At least he's out of the division now. Win win.

[richard pallo 2,120]

41 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

There is definitely urgency for the LAR (and HOU as well)...however...only one year ago giving up 2 1st round picks seemed pretty damn expensive even for a 27 year-old Khalil Mack...arguably a top 5 player in the NFL at the second-most coveted position.

 

Before last season...that same LAR team acquired Marcus Peters (a 2x Pro Bowler and 1x All-Pro) with two years of cost control left (4th year + 5th year option). Now Ramsey...who is also a 2x Pro Bowler and 1x All-Pro...but with 1.5+ years of cost control left (rest of this season + 5th year option) costs TWO 1st round picks. Both had off-field "issues"...and Ramsey's success was more recent...but if Peters wasn't on Ramsey's level at the time of that trade...he wasn't far below.

 

Just a massive difference in trade value. There seems to be a shift in trade dynamics happening. But what is the fulcrum for that?

 

Some have argued that 1st round picks (after the top 5-10) are inherently overvalued because of the value vs. their contracts...and that Day Two picks actually have more surplus value. Not sure if I agree with this necessarily...though I do think Day Two picks can be incredibly undervalued.

 

But could it be something else...like rookie cost control...which will certainly be part of the new CBA negotiations (especially with guys starting to hold out after the 3rd year of their rookie deals). If teams knew...going forward...that rookies were now going to hit FA after 4 years (no 5th year option)...that could (for some teams) take away a good chunk of value (relative to other draft picks like Day Two picks)...especially when you consider that 1st round contracts are fully gtd while others are not...and therefore carry more risk.

 

If you were confident in your scouting department to scout better than other teams...you might think you can still get top tier talent on Day Two...so how much does a late/r fully-gtd 1st round pick (without a 5th year team option) really have to you? Probably not as much as it used to...which makes them more expendable to trade for established top tier talent.

Interesting draft pick analysis regarding round 1 vs 2.  Ballard seems to have a liking for round 2. and it certainly seems like our scouting dept. is very good.   If we win this Sunday, which I am having my doubts actually, but if we do I wonder if Ballard might be tempted to package our no.1 for a proven talent like Williams or Parker or Sanu for example and get a 2 back as part of the trade.  A win would definitely make us contenders and adding a strong starting caliber player might be tempting while still not losing a pick but just dropping back one round.     Just an idea that might make sense for the right player. 

[jskinnz 5,461]

7 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Interesting draft pick analysis regarding round 1 vs 2.  Ballard seems to have a liking for round 2. and it certainly seems like our scouting dept. is very good.   If we win this Sunday, which I am having my doubts actually, but if we do I wonder if Ballard might be tempted to package our no.1 for a proven talent like Williams or Parker or Sanu for example and get a 2 back as part of the trade.  A win would definitely make us contenders and adding a strong starting caliber player might be tempting while still not losing a pick but just dropping back one round.     Just an idea that might make sense for the right player. 

 

Oy vey.

 

 

[Lucky Colts Fan 5,399]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

So, did he ever reveal what a Jabroni is?

 

Sounds like some sort of meat head.

 

I think it's that ice-rink vacuum cleaner thing-a-ma-jig...

 

[aaron11 2,315]

1 hour ago, shastamasta said:

 

There is definitely urgency for the LAR (and HOU as well)...however...only one year ago giving up 2 1st round picks seemed pretty damn expensive even for a 27 year-old Khalil Mack...arguably a top 5 player in the NFL at the second-most coveted position...

 

 

 

good post this got me thinking about some stuff

 

I think GMS are saying there are usually about 20 guys really worth a first round pick in each draft, then there isnt much difference 21-50 or so.  Ballard seems to like trading for more picks in the 30-50 range.  Texans and Rams like trading up or away to go for what they think are the elite guys.

 

it looks like nobody likes drafting in the last part of the first round unless they are looking for a QB

[DougDew 3,308]

26 minutes ago, IinD said:

Rams trying hard to win one before they become the St.Louis Rams again.

 

Buying talent on the fly rarely works. At least he's out of the division now. Win win.

I never understood how/why their offense was so good.  I know TB/Winston put up big numbers, and I'm sure that D must be their problem side of the ball, but I just think that O has gotten by on smoke and mirrors for a long time.

 

They've still got Blythe playing G, IIRC.

[Kyle 901]

ok.... seems like everyone thinks the Jags won this trade.  

 

I kind of disagree.  Ramsey is a difference maker on a defense.  The dude is easily a top 3 CB in the league.  The Jags could draft a CB with both the 1st round picks they got and most likely will not end up with a CB even close to as good as Ramsey.  It is hard to find the real stars in the draft and when you get one on your team, it is never good to have to get rid of him just to try and find a replacement.  Congrats Jax, you now suck on offense AND defense

 

 

 

[IndySouthsider 341]

17 hours ago, MB-ColtsFan said:

As of now, the Rams pick around 19 or so.  Not bad at all for Jax.  Could be scary in the future indeed.  They're still relatively young to begin with.

Keep in mind that three of the Jaguars recent #1’s are no longer on their team. Funny enough they are all on Rams.

[IinD 2,669]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

I never understood how/why their offense was so good.  I know TB/Winston put up big numbers, and I'm sure that D must be their problem side of the ball, but I just think that O has gotten by on smoke and mirrors for a long time.

 

They've still got Blythe playing G, IIRC.

Could simply be a case of 'no film on what they do' and as expected they've come back down to earth. Along with whoever they lost from last year through FA.

 

Football is definitely weird nowadays. So many teams go up and down within a year or two. Minus NE of course.

 

The KC shine seems to be fading slowly as well also.

[EastStreet 1,925]

to the OP... 

 

I think it's good short term (this year) for the Colts, but bad long term. The Jags even without Ramsey have some very good pieces. Four #1s over two years can really improve a team if used correctly.

 

I know Ramsey is an elite stud, but the thought of mortgaging the next two years is just hard to stomach. If the Rams can use him, and get back to SB contender, then it works out. If they don't, it's a bad trade for them. IMO, I think they might have panicked a bit.

[Myles 2,508]

22 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

No, but would u take 2 for Big Q?

Good question.

If Nelson had been vocal about not playing for the Colts unless he got a record deal, and has been asking to be traded because he didn't want to play for the Colts anymore, it would be a toss up.   Fortunately, Nelson doesn't have that type of personality.  

[EastStreet 1,925]

3 minutes ago, Myles said:

Good question.

If Nelson had been vocal about not playing for the Colts unless he got a record deal, and has been asking to be traded because he didn't want to play for the Colts anymore, it would be a toss up.   Fortunately, Nelson doesn't have that type of personality.  

 

Nelson will get his money, and I'm pretty sure he knows it. He's also building "legend" status in Indy, and has also kept his ND fan base. I don't see him ever wanting to go anywhere else.

[LuckyHorseShoe§ 308]

20 hours ago, runthepost said:

Top 3 corner when healthy but it’s too much for a trade.

Top 3 corner when healthy and not complaining about other players in the league

[coltsfeva 1,321]

Another aspect of a guy like Ramsey is; will he miss games either by suspension or a “bad back”, should the Rams faulter?

[Myles 2,508]

42 minutes ago, coltsfeva said:

Another aspect of a guy like Ramsey is; will he miss games either by suspension or a “bad back”, should the Rams faulter?

Good point.   A history of injuries.  

[DownHillRunner 71]

Jalen Ramsey thinks he's going to a better situation with the Rams; he really is not! The Rams have been underachieving  this season. No running game, offensive line is slow and weak, defensive line can't rush the Quarterback, they play in a tough division, etc. Also, there is not guarantee Ramsey is going to re-sign there. He gave an indication in that radio interview he would but anything can happen. 

 

 

The Jags did a great job acquiring draft capital for the next two seasons though. I'm just glad he's out of the division and conference. 

[Defjamz26 4,064]

Good for the Colts. I guess now the best CB in the division is Malcolm Butler so our receivers should be celebrating. But I said this a few years ago when the Jags started to make all this offseason moves. In a year or two something would have to give. And now you see it. Malik Jackson was let go. Robinson they let walk. Ramsey and Fowler have been traded. Campbell and Bouye probably won’t be around much longer either since Ngakoue has to get paid. Jags are rebuilding. 

 

Couple other notes:

-The Jags 1st round picks from 2014-2016 are now all on the Rams (Bortles, Fowler, and Ramsey)

-2020 will make it 5 consecutive years the Rams will not have a 1st round pick. 6 in 2021assuming they don’t trade someone for a 1st in that time 

 

Perfect illustration of why roster management and drafting/draft strategy are very important. You can be really good in a short window, but you will come crashing back down to earth just as quick.

[ColtV 114]

On 10/16/2019 at 12:56 PM, csmopar said:

They had like 10-12 year run of being top 15 in the draft order... just saying

This. And I know it's trendy on this board to trash him, but he is a tremendous corner, and him out of the division is a great thing for us. I'd rather take my chances with that front office picking replacements. 

[red14 21]

5 hours ago, LuckyHorseShoe§ said:

Top 3 corner when healthy and not complaining about other players in the league

He is a great corner (when he plays), but Jags need O linemen and receivers more.   Offense dominates the league now.

[LuckyHorseShoe§ 308]

1 hour ago, red14 said:

He is a great corner (when he plays), but Jags need O linemen and receivers more.   Offense dominates the league now.

True. Jags definitely got the good end of this deal. Three good picks, all of which they can use on offense. Their defense is good enough even without Ramsey, but on offense all they really have is Minshew, who is inconsistent, and Chark.