Two Horrible Calls Cost The Lions vs. Packers

[King Colt]

Just finished watching the Pack/Lions to ight and the officials cost the Lions the game. Two calls against the Lions DE #90 for hands to the face showed clearly his hands were on the opponents pads. So obvious were both calls one would think the games was rigged. I'm sure you will see this on the sports shows tomorrow. These two calls could cost the Lions a run for the SB. "Not reviewable" now is like "diplomatic immunity". The NFL is a joke.

[coltsva]

I’ve never been a conspiracy theorist, but when you see those two calls and the overruling of the running back catch (think is was Lions Johnson), it’s really hard to watch the NFL and not think the game is somewhat rigged.

 

You with me Saints fans?!

[buffalo34]

Earlier in the game the announcers were talking about Bill Belichick and the little things that he pays attention to when gameplanning, including who will be officiating the game. Which I don't know why Belichick would care, the refs hardly penalize the Patriots anyway...

[Lucky Colts Fan]

25 minutes ago, King Colt said:

Just finished watching the Pack/Lions to ight and the officials cost the Lions the game. Two calls against the Lions DE #90 for hands to the face showed clearly his hands were on the opponents pads.

 

The same ref made both calls.  He needs to retire, cuz his eyes don't work so good anymore.

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Matt Patricia has pretty much shown that coaches now 'get it'. Don't challenge P.I. (or non called, like on Marvin Jones) as it will not be overturned. Save the time outs, which Patricia (unfortunately) had to do. But Refs should be getting these right.

 

Hands to the face farce took the Pack from punting at their 44 down 9 points to a 1st and 10 at Lions 40, where they eventually hit on a big play for a TD- now down just 2.  SMH.

 

The Refs have to get better, not more NY intervention.  This is one of a few where the outcome was heavily influenced by officiating and the Lions very well could have won that game.

 

It just seems funny though, with everyone previously screaming how the NFL has taken D out of the game are now barking about DPI non calls.

 

EDIT: Just got an update on PI calls.  7 out of 40 have been overturned, the other 33 stood. That's a less than 20% chance. I'd really like a video from NFLOfficiating demonstrating what gets overturned and anything less won't.

[lollygagger8]

These refs can't be that bad. 

 

Sure seems like more and more games are fixed. 

 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, lollygagger8 said:

These refs can't be that bad. 

 

Sure seems like more and more games are fixed. 

 

 

 

If it were just one game, it would hard to disagree.  But this is league wide, nearly every game all day Sunday.  Coaches are sending in videos left and right, but I feel few will get an apology, unfortunately.

 

Officials are refereeing scared, IMHO.  I feel video replay and the latest technology has actually accelerated it.  I might be for removal of all coaches challenges/reviews, and only have booth stoppage in last 2 minutes of the game to correct Rams/Saints level debacles only. Then hold refs accountable.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Not only was it not hands to the face but on one of them the GB player actually did have his hands to the face of the lions player.  Just terrible. What is so hard about having every penalty reviewed by someone in the booth and calling down to the ref to correct it. Lions are very good. I felt really bad for them.

[King Colt]

If you look close on the plays you see the official is about 4 yards away. How does one miss a call that close to the players? Also, Flowers's fingers are inside the shoulder pads meaning they are not visible so how can they be in the mask? John Parry a retired official and an officiating expert said on Golic & Wingo this morning with the new deal just signed the officials received a nicer package in retirement so more will retire sooner. That leaves more openings for younger officials. Not good. The "they're only human" excuse is starting to wear. On the flip side of that excuse is the possibility the "only human" official might have a grudge against a player and judge accordingly. However, ratings are up 5% this year according to G&W this morning so all else is secondary.

[PeterBowman]

10 hours ago, buffalo34 said:

Earlier in the game the announcers were talking about Bill Belichick and the little things that he pays attention to when gameplanning, including who will be officiating the game. Which I don't know why Belichick would care, the refs hardly penalize the Patriots anyway...

well not when the game is still in doubt.... I've noticed they get more flag happy against the Pats when the game has already been decided and want to make their numbers look more even. 

[CoachLite]

11 hours ago, King Colt said:

Just finished watching the Pack/Lions to ight and the officials cost the Lions the game. Two calls against the Lions DE #90 for hands to the face showed clearly his hands were on the opponents pads. So obvious were both calls one would think the games was rigged. I'm sure you will see this on the sports shows tomorrow. These two calls could cost the Lions a run for the SB. "Not reviewable" now is like "diplomatic immunity". The NFL is a joke.

New York is watching this. For the sake of the game, they should be able to stop play and overturn any obvious errors, especially game changing errors like the two hands-to-the-face errors last night. Being an official or ref is hard and errors will be made. But obvious game changing errors diminish the game and conspiracy rumors will take it down.

[Yoshinator]

The NFL is an entertainment industry. As such, they are allowed to rig games and have predetermined outcomes legally while posing as a legit sport (just like the WWE). People are just starting to figure this out now. #NFL is rigged.

[CoachLite]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The NFL is an entertainment industry. As such, they are allowed to rig games and have predetermined outcomes legally while posing as a legit sport (just like the WWE). People are just starting to figure this out now. #NFL is rigged.

Are you telling me that WWE wrestling is fake!!? Say it isn't so! DWS (dripping with sarcasm).

[BigQungus]

13 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The NFL is an entertainment industry. As such, they are allowed to rig games and have predetermined outcomes legally while posing as a legit sport (just like the WWE). People are just starting to figure this out now. #NFL is rigged.

 

Except WWE is 1 on 1, and the NFL has 11 player per team.

 

Eh, you know what, I'm not gonna poke the bear on this one

[ColtsBlueFL]

3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Not only was it not hands to the face but on one of them the GB player actually did have his hands to the face of the lions player.  Just terrible. What is so hard about having every penalty reviewed by someone in the booth and calling down to the ref to correct it. Lions are very good. I felt really bad for them.

 

Most are subjective. To quote some anonymous person, often, you are just overturning "one crappy opinion with another, different crappy opinion."  And you are lifting accountability off the on fielkd refs shoulders (someone else to blame).

 

Besides, it would extend the game even more than it is already!  That and the Belichick 'challenge everything' rule that would guarantee up to 5 challenges every game at 3 minutes each ( additional 15).  I say take away replay review challenges altogether, and have booth interference, I mean review, in last two minutes of the game only.

 

2 hours ago, CoachLite said:

New York is watching this. For the sake of the game, they should be able to stop play and overturn any obvious errors, especially game changing errors like the two hands-to-the-face errors last night. Being an official or ref is hard and errors will be made. But obvious game changing errors diminish the game and conspiracy rumors will take it down.

 

As of last summer, Riveron was going to use the clear and obvious standard.  What is clear and obvious since then is that he has been overruled by league higher ups/owners. It is now an even higher standard in replay. Which is nonsensical to have a different standard there than what the refs on the field are held to. But it is what it is.  This is a 1 year trial rule and will be (heavily?) modified for next year.

[21isSuperman]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist.  I don't think the NFL has games fixed or tells refs to help one team more than another.  I think this comes down to human error (refs make bad calls), and arrogance/ego to not fix those bad calls (not over-turning blatant missed calls).  Refs making bad calls isn't a huge deal because we're all human and we all make mistakes.  But the NFL needs to figure out a way to make sure these bad calls can be corrected.  Sending out statements and apologies on Monday saying the refs were wrong does nothing to help anyone.

[ColtsBlueFL]

23 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

I'm not a conspiracy theorist.  I don't think the NFL has games fixed or tells refs to help one team more than another.  I think this comes down to human error (refs make bad calls),

 

Yes, even those not so obvious ones. IE: called 12 men on field vs team A defense/flagged. Later team B has 13 defenders on the field when team A lines up. But instead of stopping the play and throwing the flag, they grant team B a timeout!!  I feel that is incorrect application and a timeout cannot cancel the 12 men on the field flag once the O is set. Yet this has happened at least twice that I know of (including last night?)

 

23 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

and arrogance/ego to not fix those bad calls (not over-turning blatant missed calls). 

 

P.I. seems to have a much higher bar in replay than the rules that apply on the field.  This isn't right, though I know it is to detract coaches from challenging P.I. penalties. This rule is for the league to (only) intervene in the most dire circumstances (whether booth review or coach challenge).

 

23 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Refs making bad calls isn't a huge deal because we're all human and we all make mistakes.  But the NFL needs to figure out a way to make sure these bad calls can be corrected. 

 

Agreed refs need to get better. How?

 

23 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Sending out statements and apologies on Monday saying the refs were wrong does nothing to help anyone.

 

Those aren't going away until mistakes are eliminated, unfortunately. No way they open up replay to everything like Belichick wants.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, CoachLite said:

Are you telling me that WWE wrestling is fake!!? Say it isn't so! DWS (dripping with sarcasm).

Hulk Hogan won all of his matches fair and square, nobody will tell me other wise , which you gonna do with these guns get ahold of you 

[Valpo2004]

You know with the number of people that think the games are rigged I find it amazing that they still watch.  

 

What is the point of watching a sport with a pre-determined outcome.  

[21isSuperman]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Agreed refs need to get better. How?

 

 

Those aren't going away until mistakes are eliminated, unfortunately. No way they open up replay to everything like Belichick wants.

I don't know if you can make refs better, so to speak, because they're human and will always make mistakes.  Maybe you could start to include robots/computers somehow to remove some of the human error, but I don't know if that's the case.  What I'm saying is they need to find a safety net to catch and correct the human errors.  I'm in favour of having everything be reviewable.  The point should be to make sure everything is called correctly.  Why not let every play be reviewable to ensure the game is being played by the rules?  This way, you take some of the blame off of the refs, but you also ensure that the game is played the right way.  If a ref makes a bad call, it gets reviewed and overturned if necessary.

[JimJaime]

5 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

I don't know if you can make refs better, so to speak, because they're human and will always make mistakes.  Maybe you could start to include robots/computers somehow to remove some of the human error, but I don't know if that's the case.  What I'm saying is they need to find a safety net to catch and correct the human errors.  I'm in favour of having everything be reviewable.  The point should be to make sure everything is called correctly.  Why not let every play be reviewable to ensure the game is being played by the rules?  This way, you take some of the blame off of the refs, but you also ensure that the game is played the right way.  If a ref makes a bad call, it gets reviewed and overturned if necessary.

Great response! I would add make refs full time employees and have them learn all the rules and how they should be interpreted during the off season.  IMO the biggest issue is how vastly different one group of refs call a game compared to another.

[jvan1973]

5 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The NFL is an entertainment industry. As such, they are allowed to rig games and have predetermined outcomes legally while posing as a legit sport (just like the WWE). People are just starting to figure this out now. #NFL is rigged.

Such nonsense.    It would be an impossible thing to keep from getting to the public.    If NFL fans found out they were rigging games. The golden goose would be finished.   Billions a year,  down the drain.     Again,   complete nonsense

[King Colt]

One point I heard said so far today on rulings was now with replay reviews some officials make calls saying to themselves,"no matter if I'm wrong because the replay will reverse the call." That is not what the NFL needs. Between bad calls like the two last night and the PI calls and helmet-to-helmet calls things are getting messy. As for the facemask calls it was said today, "How do you call something you did not see?"  I thought that was the best thing said.

[Blueblood23]

55 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

I don't know if you can make refs better, so to speak, because they're human and will always make mistakes.  Maybe you could start to include robots/computers somehow to remove some of the human error, but I don't know if that's the case.  What I'm saying is they need to find a safety net to catch and correct the human errors.  I'm in favour of having everything be reviewable.  The point should be to make sure everything is called correctly.  Why not let every play be reviewable to ensure the game is being played by the rules?  This way, you take some of the blame off of the refs, but you also ensure that the game is played the right way.  If a ref makes a bad call, it gets reviewed and overturned if necessary.

Just don't understand why they are getting worse. Officiating has never been this bad collectively. Starting to wonder if there's more to it than human error??????

[jameszeigler834]

8 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Matt Patricia has pretty much shown that coaches now 'get it'. Don't challenge P.I. (or non called, like on Marvin Jones) as it will not be overturned. Save the time outs, which Patricia (unfortunately) had to do. But Refs should be getting these right.

 

Hands to the face farce took the Pack from punting at their 44 down 9 points to a 1st and 10 at Lions 40, where they eventually hit on a big play for a TD- now down just 2.  SMH.

 

The Refs have to get better, not more NY intervention.  This is one of a few where the outcome was heavily influenced by officiating and the Lions very well could have won that game.

 

It just seems funny though, with everyone previously screaming how the NFL has taken D out of the game are now barking about DPI non calls.

 

EDIT: Just got an update on PI calls.  7 out of 40 have been overturned, the other 33 stood. That's a less than 20% chance. I'd really like a video from NFLOfficiating demonstrating what gets overturned and anything less won't.

The refs are garbage. saw the second call last night that wasn't even close that was the worst hands to the face call I have ever seen.

[21isSuperman]

19 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Just don't understand why they are getting worse. Officiating has never been this bad collectively. Starting to wonder if there's more to it than human error??????

I'm not sure if they are actually getting worse, or if people are just getting more upset about it/it's getting more exposure.  I don't know if there are some statistics we could look at to see if they are getting worse, or if we just think they are.

 

1 hour ago, JimJaime said:

Great response! I would add make refs full time employees and have them learn all the rules and how they should be interpreted during the off season.  IMO the biggest issue is how vastly different one group of refs call a game compared to another.

They were last year.  The NFL suspended the full time program this year, but I'm not sure why.

[Blueblood23]

34 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

I'm not sure if they are actually getting worse, or if people are just getting more upset about it/it's getting more exposure.  I don't know if there are some statistics we could look at to see if they are getting worse, or if we just think they are.

 

They were last year.  The NFL suspended the full time program this year, but I'm not sure why.

I've been watching a lot of football since the late 60s and it sure looks worse to me. The game has changed a lot as has the officiating. I'm in favor of the replacement refs. The mistakes these guys make every week is way beyond acceptable. Again maybe it's more than that.

[CoachLite]

As a referee in another sport, which is worse - missing a call, or getting a call wrong and doing nothing about it? No matter how hard I try, there are times when I miss a call. If I don't see it, I can't call it. In my sport, I'm usually the only official. But in the NFL, there are many eyes. If I make a call wrong, I know it and I can correct it. If I don't correct it, that would be the worse case scenario. That is inexcusable. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

The point should be to make sure everything is called correctly.  Why not let every play be reviewable to ensure the game is being played by the rules? 

 

 

Time. The games will drag on at length. It will gather as much noise as bad calls. In addition,  teams with momentum will get stopped for 3 minute reviews, allowing opposition to rest and regroup.

 

Once down that path, there's no getting the Genie back in the bottle. Cuban will likely end up right and the game will crush itself, but maybe for means beyond greed.

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, JimJaime said:

I would add make refs full time employees and have them learn all the rules and how they should be interpreted during the off season.

 

Seems reasonable. All full time and pay them accordingly. Even have a pre season before OTA's and camps.

 

2 hours ago, JimJaime said:

 IMO the biggest issue is how vastly different one group of refs call a game compared to another.

 

And yet, every fan base complains about them all. But some astute fans notice what appears to be certain officials with unique bias.  There may a little something to that at times.

[hoosierhawk]

This rule is for the league to (only) intervene in the most dire circumstances (whether booth review or coach challenge).

 

What is considered dire circumstances and to whom? Teams are losing games [example: Chiefs Sunday]. Is that not considered dire? There are several more than just this one that have happened this year already. I think the whole situation has become dire,

[21isSuperman]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

 

Time. The games will drag on at length. It will gather as much noise as bad calls. In addition,  teams with momentum will get stopped for 3 minute reviews, allowing opposition to rest and regroup.

 

Once down that path, there's no getting the Genie back in the bottle. Cuban will likely end up right and the game will crush itself, but maybe for means beyond greed.

I don't agree with that.  This will only happen if you continually have mistakes made, which I don't think happens.  Most plays don't have something controversial in them.  On a typical 3 yard run, you don't have to worry about things like offside, pass interference, unnecessary roughness, etc. I don't think the time factor would be that significant if applied.  But even if that is the case, you could allow everything to be reviewable in the final 2 mins of each half, for example.  There are ways around it.  Not to mention that there are multiple ways for the NFL to shorten games if they think this would be that big of a deal

[hoosierhawk]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

 

Time. The games will drag on at length. It will gather as much noise as bad calls. In addition,  teams with momentum will get stopped for 3 minute reviews, allowing opposition to rest and regroup.

 

Once down that path, there's no getting the Genie back in the bottle. Cuban will likely end up right and the game will crush itself, but maybe for means beyond greed.

I would rather see 12 minute quarters and getting the calls right than 15 minute quarters and seeing the fiasco that is taking place now. there is absolutely no reason for these game officials to take 5 minutes for a simple review that we see in our living room  and still getting it wrong. NY has access immediately to these replays and it should not take more than a minute or two. they are taking their sweet time to discourage the public for wanting these reviews.

[Nesjan3]

The WWE has reached a point where everybody knows it is fixed but people still watch anyways.

I believe the NFL is slowly trying to move into this niche, their tired of trying to hide it and most people are figuring it out already.

 

In the Falcons Patriots SB anybody with a brain, common sense and the desire to win a championship runs the ball in that situation, go back and watch the game. It makes absolutely 0 sense, not human error. Pre determined.

[DrColtsFan]

I was wondering why we still have refs trying to run around the field Trying to keep up with the most elite athletes?  ...when their line of sight often gets disrupted. Why not have the same number of refs (with the same assigned responsibilities as now) in a booth watching the players on computer screens to decide when penalty flags are indicated?  Could leave one on the field to place the ball based on what the line judge radios to him.  This might actually speed up the game versus having things reviewed after the fact.  I know it’s not perfect, but no one seems to believe that the current system is near perfect either. 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

16 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

In the Falcons Patriots SB anybody with a brain, common sense and the desire to win a championship runs the ball in that situation, go back and watch the game. It makes absolutely 0 sense, not human error. Pre determined.

 

So you think the Falcons coaches and players were in on losing that game?

[Nesjan3]

11 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

So you think the Falcons coaches and players were in on losing that game?

yup, the same way the winner of WWE Summer slam is already decided before it happens, money is a powerful thing.

 

Obviously with so many more variables in a sport like football compared to wrestling, its not perfect, but close enough it seems they get the outcome they want more times than not.

 

LOL! Im not sure thats what i believe, but this is something that was pitched to me recently and its honestly hard not to consider

[Lucky Colts Fan]

Then why would Luck retire if he could keep making millions on fake games?

 

Is everyone in the NFL such a great actor that they just act mad when they lose?

 

I'm sorry, there's just too many variables for me to wrap my half-a-brain around this theory of yours.

[jvan1973]

3 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

Then why would Luck retire if he could keep making millions on fake games?

 

Is everyone in the NFL such a great actor that they just act mad when they lose?

 

I'm sorry, there's just too many variables for me to wrap my half-a-brain around this theory of yours.

Only WWE and pokemon players think the NFL is rigged.   The refs aren't perfect,   but it's obviously not rigged

[jvan1973]

11 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

yup, the same way the winner of WWE Summer slam is already decided before it happens, money is a powerful thing.

 

Obviously with so many more variables in a sport like football compared to wrestling, its not perfect, but close enough it seems they get the outcome they want more times than not.

 

LOL! Im not sure thats what i believe, but this is something that was pitched to me recently and its honestly hard not to consider

Obvious nonsense.   The NFL makes billions of dollars.   Why would they jeopardize that by fixing games?  They wouldn't.   It's a dumb premise.   If they were fixing games the huge market's would be winning Superbowls.    Get a grip