Week 6 impressions: Brissett

[BigQungus]

On 10/14/2019 at 2:15 PM, aaron11 said:

pretty optimistic take you have there OP

 

i would say he was insufficient against the chargers, titans, raiders and chiefs.  we won some of those games, mostly because of the oline and running game 

 

Just because he's not the reason why we won, doesn't mean he was a liability that game.

[krunk]

I'm hoping Brissett and Cain have been putting some major work in together trying to get in sync.  Sooner or later I believe a big game is coming for Cain. 

[aaron11]

8 minutes ago, BigQungus said:

 

Just because he's not the reason why we won, doesn't mean he was a liability that game.

honestly  i'll probably stop knocking him if we beat the texans.  that would prove we can beat our rival with JB playing like he does.  

 

i know the mantra is 1-0 every week, but texans appear to have the most raw talent in the division while jags and titans are fading.  Colts probably have the best coaching 

[EastStreet]

56 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 

2017 was still the old coaching staff, and they threw it down the field more.  i dont remember if Chud himself was still the OC but he ran air coryell  

 

Actually, he didn't have many attempts down field in 2017 either. But he his success rate in those limited attempts were 2nd highest in the league IIRC.

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I don't agree!

 

https://imgur.com/EmlPtbu

 

JB in throwing motion, arrows indicate movement.

 

 

That's the play, but only gets back to original line of scrimmage, unless Mack makes the defender coming up miss.  And he might have.

 

 

The defender was moving back well as underneath blanket, but slowed up once JB7 looked off Pascal and toward T.Y.   Which is understandable because he either has to help tackle T.Y. , or tackle Mack at that point.

 

I'd like to be in the meeting room when coaches went over these with players.

 

 

Correct, but the D lineman is in the pass lane. He can bat the ball up for grabs.  If T.Y. catches it, he's tackled just beyond the original LOS for a gain of 2. (it was 2nd and 12 from the 14, so true gain of 4)

 

https://imgur.com/RC0pGqi

 

 

I agree.  Pascal, no. T.Y., dangerous maybe.

 

 

I illustrated what I see for you.  I can run the video in real time, and slo-mo.  My thoughts are based on more than just these freeze frames.  I feel you're grasping at straws.

 

Pascal is coming open. The flat guy has no chance on a ball thrown to the boundary.  That ball could be placed somewhere between the pylon and 5 yds deep with NO chance of an INT and a pretty could chance for a TD.  I think he should have let that go.

 

Dump it off then.  Don't pull it down and look to the right finally.  Or be patient and if you are concerned with the tip ball TY will come open, if the flat player then tries to cover TY then dump to Mack with 2 blockers in front.

 

I just think this is almost a perfect example of why I think JB is not the answer past this season.  Again maybe, he improves but I think he is what he is.

 
I don't think it's grasping for straws.  I think it is an example of below average QBing.

 

He stared down Pascal the entire way is probably what the flat player is reading anyway.  Dude I don't think I am grasping at straws.

[stitches]

32 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

OK, you're the QB.  You have moved off Pascal, pulled it back from T.Y. , ignored the checkdown to Mack.  You're in a clean pocket and this is what you see as you continue to go through the progressions-

 

https://imgur.com/tqrxRkp

 

Where are you going with the ball? 

 

 

Probably needs to go back to his check down or wait for his receivers to get back to the ball, depends on what they teach them in scramble mode. 

Quote

 

The play broke down, it was defended. Like most QB's, time to make a play with his feet.  I feel he wanted to sprint to the sideline and buy time for a receiver to get open. But Glowinski was in his way making him take a path closer to Chris Jones (who quickly disengaged from Kelly to pursue).

 

 

Castonzo  lost his man shortly after JB7 tucked and started to bail.  I don't think it would be long enough for these receivers to break away from their defenders- T.Y., Cain, or especially Ebron, on his butt in the end zone.  Kelly wasn't in great position on Jones, as witnessed how fast he got to JB once he broke out.

 

 

Strip sack from the blind side would have been bad. Besides, nobody got open, even with more time!!

 

https://imgur.com/XCETn05

 

This was as JB7 threw it out of bounds.

 

 

Once he leaves the pocket it's hard to predict what would have happened had he stayed in simply because him moving changes what the defenders do and what his protection can do. For example, AC might keep his block for a lot longer if the defender doesn't see Jacoby leaving the pocket and changing his trajectory. 

 

Quote

 

If I was talented enough to be in his shoes, I would have taken the safety valve to Mack and let him try to make a play.  But I feel JB7 is every bit as talented as Big Ben to extend a play moving out of the pocket when necessary. So we don't see it the same.  The WR are blanketed. I'm not sitting there forever in that case hoping a defender eventually falls down, instead of one of your targets.

 

I've made my case.  (I think the check down to Mack). I'm moving on.

 

Indeed, we don't see it the same about Jacoby's ability to extend plays. But I agree he should have gone back to his check down in Mack. 

[throwing BBZ]

4 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

JB basically has what Luck had last year, plus more. In training camp, he had everyone but PC and Cain was on a pitch count. In preseason snaps, he had pretty much the same WRs and TEs that Luck had last year (except for Inman) in Rogers, Pascal, TY, Ebron, MAC, and also got Doyle back. Rogers was basically Luck's most consistent #2 last year... 

 

Sure he needs time to develop chemistry with Cain and PC, but he's had plenty of time with the other guys. Like I've said several times, JB's issues is getting beyond the 1st and second read. Based on what we've seen, the majority of fist and second reads have been TY plus Doyle/Ebron. 

 

And I'm happy giving him time. I do want to see sustained and consistent improvement over the next 4 games though. That's a total of 9 games and 10 weeks of practice to get "up to speed".

 

 His rookies will need another training camp, pre-season, and 1/2 a season next year to begin becoming NFL ready. When will Ebron show up?
 Hopefully Funchess gets back and can do some of the things we need to better attack defenses.
 I like that Brissett is focused on making 1st downs rather than being STUCK on forcing balls downfield like our last QB. Ball control is a winning plan.

[stitches]

6 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Pascal is coming open. The flat guy has no chance on a ball thrown to the boundary.  That ball could be placed somewhere between the pylon and 5 yds deep with NO chance of an INT and a pretty could chance for a TD.  I think he should have let that go.

 

I was thinking the same thing when I was watching it. I think there are QBs in the league that make that throw, but I agree with @ColtsBlueFL it probably is too risky of a throw for Jacoby, since he left a similar throw to Ebron short later and it got intercepted.

Quote

 

Dump it off then.  Don't pull it down and look to the right finally.  Or be patient and if you are concerned with the tip ball TY will come open, if the flat player then tries to cover TY then dump to Mack with 2 blockers in front.

 

I just think this is almost a perfect example of why I think JB is not the answer past this season.  Again maybe, he improves but I think he is what he is.

 
I don't think it's grasping for straws.  I think it is an example of below average QBing.

 

He stared down Pascal the entire way is probably what the flat player is reading anyway.  Dude I don't think I am grasping at straws.

 

I think he was staring at Pascal in the beginning(might be the reason the defender in the flat started dropping toward Pascal), then decided he can't make the throw and moved to TY, pumpfaked and decided he cannot make that throw either. I'm not sure he even saw Mack before he tucked it and ran. 

[stitches]

 

 

[Nickster]

6 minutes ago, stitches said:

I was thinking the same thing when I was watching it. I think there are QBs in the league that make that throw, but I agree with @ColtsBlueFL it probably is too risky of a throw for Jacoby, since he left a similar throw to Ebron short later and it got intercepted.

I think he was staring at Pascal in the beginning(might be the reason the defender in the flat started dropping toward Pascal), then decided he can't make the throw and moved to TY, pumpfaked and decided he cannot make that throw either. I'm not sure he even saw Mack before he tucked it and ran. 

 

 

That throw to Ebron was not that similar.  Ebron was running a corner type of route and was very flat.  Pascal is hitting an out pattern and the this is man type of situation and Ebron play was right into a sitting there zone.  

IF that is why he doesn't throw here, it's evern worse IMO.

[CoachLite]

This is a matter of experience and knowledge. Brissett is looking for "what is there". He needs to be aware of what possibilities will be "there" before the ball is snapped, and look to see which one (of maybe three) actually happens.

[stitches]

 

[EastStreet]

10 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 His rookies will need another training camp, pre-season, and 1/2 a season next year to begin becoming NFL ready. When will Ebron show up?
 Hopefully Funchess gets back and can do some of the things we need to better attack defenses.
 I like that Brissett is focused on making 1st downs rather than being STUCK on forcing balls downfield like our last QB. Ball control is a winning plan.

I agree in general that rookie WRs need 2 years to really be productive. That's one reason why I have been critical of Chloe's remarks about drafting McLaurin instead of PC for example. 

 

That said, PC has been very competent so far and has caught 10 of 13 targets from JB. That's better than any other WR or TE not named TY. And while Ebron has drop issues, he still has more yards than Doyle on the same amount of targets (both have 20 targets). Cain has been a victim of some very bad passes/targets, so it's hard to really grade him. 

 

And it's not about Brissett forcing balls downfield. It's about him seeing open receivers when they are open downfield. And thus far he hasn't been all that good at it. And he doesn't have to throw a bunch downfield. He just needs to be successful enough so that teams respect the ability, and aren't able to stack the box, or have the DBs play shallow clogging up the short to intermediate lanes.

[Creekside]

15 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

 

And it's not about Brissett forcing balls downfield. It's about him seeing open receivers when they are open downfield. And thus far he hasn't been all that good at it. 

 

How many times so far this year has Brissett not seen open receivers downfield?

 

Or, about, on average per game, how many does he miss?

 

We know that even good QBs miss seeing open receivers. How does Brissett's misses compare to what a good QB is allowed to miss?

[EastStreet]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

 

How many times so far this year has Brissett not seen open receivers downfield?

 

Or, about, on average per game, how many does he miss?

 

We know that even good QBs miss seeing open receivers. How does Brissett's misses compare to what a good QB is allowed to miss?

 

Good question. I don't think anyone "tracks" that. The last two games though, the announcers have commented on open guys downfield (I've noticed too). I think it's fair to say that 1) we have plenty of speed, 2) JB has very few attempts downfield, and 3) Ds have been stacking the box and playing shallow.

 

All that said, it would be very hard for me to believe our faster guys don't get open when running deep routes. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

3 hours ago, Nickster said:

 

Pascal is coming open. The flat guy has no chance on a ball thrown to the boundary.  That ball could be placed somewhere between the pylon and 5 yds deep with NO chance of an INT and a pretty could chance for a TD.  I think he should have let that go.

 

Maybe, but I think there's too many defenders underneath to rocket a bullet out there, and by the time Pascal looks for the ball his defender is on his tail and might contest the completion. The flat guy stops his drop only because JB comes off looking deep and focus on T.Y., before he pulls that back too.  Depending where/when it is thrown, a pick is possible. The most elite QB's might make that play.  We've already established JB7 isn't elite. And may never get there. Stitches sees it in motion and sees the risk.

 

https://imgur.com/UFuZEOj

 

Quote

 

Dump it off then.  Don't pull it down and look to the right finally.  Or be patient and if you are concerned with the tip ball TY will come open, if the flat player then tries to cover TY then dump to Mack with 2 blockers in front.

 

I would have thrown to Mack much earlier, but I am just a 6 pack analyst. (thanks Charlie Weis!)

 

Quote

I just think this is almost a perfect example of why I think JB is not the answer past this season.  Again maybe, he improves but I think he is what he is.

 

 

Exactly, a game manager guy that takes care of the ball and lives to make the next play instead of giving the opponent the ball and momentum.  We hope that he improves play making ability as time passes.

 

Quote

I don't think it's grasping for straws.  I think it is an example of below average QBing.

 

If he throws an interception there, then I agree.

 

Quote

He stared down Pascal the entire way is probably what the flat player is reading anyway.  Dude I don't think I am grasping at straws.

 

He only looked at Pascal until T.Y. crossed the middle of the field, then he looked to him.  Now if someone would have said I wish JB7 would have looked Cain/Ebrons way at the snap, then turned to look at Pascal, I would nod in agreement. He did not. To me, Mack was the only throw to make. 

 

Not been swayed from that yet.

[Nickster]

4 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Maybe, but I think there's too many defenders underneath to rocket a bullet out there, and by the time Pascal looks for the ball his defender is on his tail and might contest the completion. The flat guy stops his drop only because JB comes off looking deep and focus on T.Y., before he pulls that back too.  Depending where/when it is thrown, a pick is possible. The most elite QB's might make that play.  We've already established JB7 isn't elite. And may never get there. Stitches sees it in motion and sees the risk.

 

https://imgur.com/UFuZEOj

 

 

I would have thrown to Mack much earlier, but I am just a 6 pack analyst. (thanks Charlie Weis!)

 

 

Exactly, a game manager guy that takes care of the ball and lives to make the next play instead of giving the opponent the ball and momentum.  We hope that improves playmaking ability as time passes.

 

 

If he throws an interception there, then I agree.

 

 

He only looked at Pascal until T.Y. crossed the middle of the field, then he looked to him.  Now if someone would have said I wish JB7 would have looked Cain/Ebrons way at the snap, then turned to look at Pascal, I would nod in agreement. He did not. To me, Mack was the only throw to make. 

 

Not been swayed from that yet.

 

You would have looked flat, but I would have crumpled up in the fetal positions and hoped none of those boys tripped over me and I would have just hoped and wished to hear the whistle!

 

You wouldn't rifle that out pattern.  You'd lead him to the bourndary.  Not a dangerous throw at all.  Relatively decent percentage play IMO.   Low risk, high reward IMO.  But I can understand what you are saying.

 

Look it's one play so it's no biggie in isolation, but it epitomizes what appears to be JBs shortcomings to me.  There was no need to "play it safe" there.  The non throw to Pascal is not dangerous and the non dump off is not dangerous. Maybe he'll get better.

[throwing BBZ]

42 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I agree in general that rookie WRs need 2 years to really be productive. That's one reason why I have been critical of Chloe's remarks about drafting McLaurin instead of PC for example. 

 

That said, PC has been very competent so far and has caught 10 of 13 targets from JB. That's better than any other WR or TE not named TY. And while Ebron has drop issues, he still has more yards than Doyle on the same amount of targets (both have 20 targets). Cain has been a victim of some very bad passes/targets, so it's hard to really grade him. 

 

And it's not about Brissett forcing balls downfield. It's about him seeing open receivers when they are open downfield. And thus far he hasn't been all that good at it. And he doesn't have to throw a bunch downfield. He just needs to be successful enough so that teams respect the ability, and aren't able to stack the box, or have the DBs play shallow clogging up the short to intermediate lanes.

 

  So Ebron is fine because he has more yards than Doyle? Good grief!
  Sorry, Ebron is KILLING us with his drops. It takes away from how defenses need to defend us.
 PC has been hurt or just catching easy targets so far. Not at all what Reich needs to stretch defenses. And Cain doesn't look to be reading and running his routes well, that is why they look off target. And he isn't fooling his defenders on the mid-range stuff, they stay right on him.
 Brissett was under a fair amount of pressure from Glow and Smith getting beat our first few games. So then we see more two TE sets and it is better. But that makes it tougher to get WR's open quick as it affects pick plays and the D isn't so spread out.
 Jacoby and his pass catchers have a lot of work to do to get better that is for sure.

[ColtsBlueFL]

14 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

All that said, it would be very hard for me to believe our faster guys don't get open when running deep routes. 

 

Cain couldn't outrun Cover 3-

 

https://imgur.com/2rowW5L

 

but gets a P.I. call

 

https://imgur.com/rM9w02g

 

But hard to see from above pic, that T.Y. comes open on a deep dig route

 

https://imgur.com/N1487MZ

 

This is one I think experienced gunslinger QB's anticipates and makes. Fortunately Cain was mugged (the standard for P.I. these days, it seems) for the big gain.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I think there was a chance Cain catches both those balls if there was no interference.

[Nickster]

28 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  So Ebron is fine because he has more yards than Doyle? Good grief!
  Sorry, Ebron is KILLING us with his drops. It takes away from how defenses need to defend us.
 PC has been hurt or just catching easy targets so far. Not at all what Reich needs to stretch defenses. And Cain doesn't look to be reading and running his routes well, that is why they look off target. And he isn't fooling his defenders on the mid-range stuff, they stay right on him.
 Brissett was under a fair amount of pressure from Glow and Smith getting beat our first few games. So then we see more two TE sets and it is better. But that makes it tougher to get WR's open quick as it affects pick plays and the D isn't so spread out.
 Jacoby and his pass catchers have a lot of work to do to get better that is for sure.

 

SO your contention is that teams leave Ebron open because of his drops?

[Creekside]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

Good question. I don't think anyone "tracks" that. The last two games though, the announcers have commented on open guys downfield (I've noticed too). I think it's fair to say that 1) we have plenty of speed, 2) JB has very few attempts downfield, and 3) Ds have been stacking the box and playing shallow.

 

All that said, it would be very hard for me to believe our faster guys don't get open when running deep routes. 

 

Not trying to start an argument. I'm only pointing out that you are essentially drawing a conclusion based on assumptions.

 

1) ........receivers are fast

2) ........QB makes few attempts

3).........the box is stacked

 

So, Brissett must be missing open receivers downfield.

 

I'm sure he misses some. But how many compared to other QBs?  ....  We don't really know. 

 

 

 

 

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, egg said:

 

Not trying to start an argument. I'm only pointing out that you are essentially drawing a conclusion based on assumptions.

 

1) ........receivers are fast

2) ........QB makes few attempts

3).........the box is stacked

 

So, Brissett must be missing open receivers downfield.

 

I'm sure he misses some. But how many compared to other QBs?  ....  We don't really know. 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with your logic.  But it is the same logic some people are using for the converse.  We have young receivers and no Funchess, so no one is open.

[anunnakidna]

15 hours ago, FanFromtheWasteland said:

He is a backup. That is what he was originally signed for. He will never be a franchise QB no matter how much wishfull thinking is put out there. We are a mediocre team with a mediocre QB. This is what we have this year. There is no way this team can lean on him to win a game when push comes to shove. Otherwise we would not need threads like this.

We're going to see about that in the ñext few weëks.

 

[Creekside]

3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I agree with your logic.  But it is the same logic some people are using for the converse.  We have young receivers and no Funchess, so no one is open.

 

When you watch any decent QB play and he doesn't find an open target, do you assume that he is not seeing open receivers? Or do you assume no one is open?

 

 

 

 

[Nickster]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

 

When you watch any decent QB play and he doesn't find an open target, do you assume that he is not seeing open receivers? Or do you assume no one is open?

 

 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, egg said:

 

When you watch any decent QB play and he doesn't find an open target, do you assume that he is not seeing open receivers? Or do you assume no one is open?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Depends on the definition of decent among many other things.

[SteelCityColt]

5 hours ago, EastStreet said:

@ColtsBlueFL and @SteelCityColt

 

Three questions for both of you. Not looking really for debate, just your thoughts.

 

1. What do you believe JB's biggest weakness is, and how do you improve it. Is it progressions, touch, vision, etc..

 

2. While JB's downfield attempts have been few (this year and in 2017), he did have a pretty darn good success rate in 2017. Do you think his lack of attempts downfield this year are more due to Reich's play calling, or JB's inability to get beyond the second read and/or let the play develop.

 

3. What changes would you make to the O right now (play calling or existing personnel) if you could. 

 

Sorry wanted to reply properly rather than on the move. I wouldn't say I'm an expert at all. I do have All 22 but have been severely lacking time lately to look at anything in dept. Joys of a working for a living! 

 

However, in my opinion, if I was to answer based on what I've seen in games so far and a bit more of an depth look at the Chiefs game:

 

1) Not sure if it's so much being able to make progressions but he does still seem to lock onto a receiver on occasion. I'm not sure of the reason as other times he seems capable of scanning in order. It might be a product of say identifying man and knowing he's got TY on a route where he's likely to get open at the cut point so locks on watching for the break to make the throw rather than trusting timing. It might be that from the scheming he's been limited in who can throw to, or he knows who should be open if the play executes and tips his hand somewhat. The good is, I don't think we've seen him consistently fooled by defenses. The Raiders pick was perhaps the "worst" play off the top of my head. 

 

2) I think it's a mixture of both. I think Reich's O isn't designed to take constant deep shots (unlike say Arians), and those shots will mostly be P/A. However I outside of Reich's coaching Brissett hasn't exactly been a frequent deep ball thrower so I think it's also part of his personality that's risk adverse. Which might also explain why he doesn't let plays fully develop, or try and force an extension of a play as it's breaking down. Not necessarily a bad thing.

 

3) I'm not sure I would make huge changes as it's by and large working. Maybe it would be nice to have a plan B that is a bit more pass heavy. Either for when things aren't working on the ground or even just to go against tendency. I'd also like to see playmakers being given the ball more in space with the chance to make things happen after the catch, but I think we've lost a bit here via injury. We still can't seem to get screens right. 

 

[EastStreet]

49 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  So Ebron is fine because he has more yards than Doyle? Good grief!
  Sorry, Ebron is KILLING us with his drops. It takes away from how defenses need to defend us.
 PC has been hurt or just catching easy targets so far. Not at all what Reich needs to stretch defenses. And Cain doesn't look to be reading and running his routes well, that is why they look off target. And he isn't fooling his defenders on the mid-range stuff, they stay right on him.
 Brissett was under a fair amount of pressure from Glow and Smith getting beat our first few games. So then we see more two TE sets and it is better. But that makes it tougher to get WR's open quick as it affects pick plays and the D isn't so spread out.
 Jacoby and his pass catchers have a lot of work to do to get better that is for sure.

 

I'm not happy at all with Ebron and not defending him. I was pretty vocal about his drop issues prior to this year, and when we signed him. All the "GM/Coach knows best" crowd diminished the issues, just like they diminished Funch's drop issues when we signed him. People don't realize it, but Funch dropped 1 of his 5 targets in the first game (20% drop rate) but people are still acting like he'd be our savior, but then are critical of Ebron for the same drop rate.

 

PC for the most part, has been catching short and intermediate stuff, because that's the only thing that JB is throwing him. His catch % is good though, so that's on JB and Reich for play calling and reads. 

 

Putting it all on Cain is nonsense. JB threw two trash back shoulder throws to him that weren't even close. He did the exact same thing to TY on the other side of the field in the same game. Is TY not running good routes? lol. Last two games Cain was mentioned by the announcers being open downfield and being missed completely.

[Creekside]

12 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

 

 

Depends on the definition of decent among many other things.

 

OK.

 

In last years play-off game in KC, Luck had 39 pass attempts. His longest pass was 29 yards. He had two other passes that were 20 and 21 yards.

 

4.6 ave yards per pass play.  203 total yards.

 

Do you think Luck was missing a-lot of open receivers downfield? 

 

Or do you think receivers were not getting separation?

[EastStreet]

29 minutes ago, egg said:

 

Not trying to start an argument. I'm only pointing out that you are essentially drawing a conclusion based on assumptions.

 

1) ........receivers are fast

2) ........QB makes few attempts

3).........the box is stacked

 

So, Brissett must be missing open receivers downfield.

 

I'm sure he misses some. But how many compared to other QBs?  ....  We don't really know. 

 

I've seen him miss open guys downfield. The announcers have mentioned him missing guys downfield. I can't watch every game to notice the same thing for every QB, but I've watched a lot of football in the last 50 years. I wish there was a tracked stat for it, but there's not. In any case, my eyes tell me he mostly goes all in on first reads, sometimes gets to his second read, and rarely gets to a 3rd or 4th. Given the overwhelming majority of play calls are short to intermediate first reads, it should not shock anyone that he's not going downfield. 

[Nickster]

8 minutes ago, egg said:

 

OK.

 

In last years play-off game in KC, Luck had 39 pass attempts. His longest pass was 29 yards. He had two other passes that were 20 and 21 yards.

 

4.6 ave yards per pass play.  203 total yards.

 

Do you think Luck was missing a-lot of open receivers downfield? 

 

Or do you think receivers were not getting separation?

 

I think Luck was getting knocked on his * that game if I remember right.   And I also thing he had a bad game too.

 

Andy was always worth WTH throw or two a game.  No doubt about it.

[EastStreet]

10 minutes ago, egg said:

 

OK.

 

In last years play-off game in KC, Luck had 39 pass attempts. His longest pass was 29 yards. He had two other passes that were 20 and 21 yards.

 

4.6 ave yards per pass play.  203 total yards.

 

Do you think Luck was missing a-lot of open receivers downfield? 

 

Or do you think receivers were not getting separation?

 

I think two things impacted last year vs KC.

 

IIRC, KC had 3-4 sacks, 6ish QB hits, and a bunch of hurries. Our OL was pretty bad. So not a lot of time to let deep stuff develop. Getting down early really made us single threaded.

 

Second, we didn't have near the team speed at WR that we do this year. Outside of TY, we really didn't have anyone that could stretch the field. Rogers, Pascal, Inman, etc aren't speedy deep guys. And TY was only 4 catches on 11 targets. They doubled him and could easy one on one or zone all of our other guys. If memory serves, both Rogers and Inman had solid/reliable games but it was mostly short dink and dunk type stuff.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

17 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I think two things impacted last year vs KC.

 

IIRC, KC had 3-4 sacks, 6ish QB hits, and a bunch of hurries. Our OL was pretty bad. So not a lot of time to let deep stuff develop. Getting down early really made us single threaded.

 

Second, we didn't have near the team speed at WR that we do this year. Outside of TY, we really didn't have anyone that could stretch the field. Rogers, Pascal, Inman, etc aren't speedy deep guys. And TY was only 4 catches on 11 targets. They doubled him and could easy one on one or zone all of our other guys. If memory serves, both Rogers and Inman had solid/reliable games but it was mostly short dink and dunk type stuff.

We don’t have that much team speed at WR. Pascal and Rogers are still on the roster and you have a rookie who tore his ACL still learning the game who by the way didn’t get snaps with Jacoby in training camp or preseason games.

[ColtsBlueFL]

44 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

I do have All 22 unlike @ColtsBlueFL but have been severely lacking time lately to look at anything in dept. Joys of a working for a living! 

 

Just to be clear,  I DO have All 22 (from my NFL Game Pass sub, and where I get my pix from).  But I, like you, have not had a chance to watch any of them, except the first half of the Chiefs game.

[SteelCityColt]

6 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Just to be clear,  I DO have All 22 (from my NFL Game Pass sub, and where I get my pix from).  But I, like you, have not had a chance to watch any of them, except the first half of the Chiefs game.

 

Completely misread your post, I apologise profusely and have edited mine. I did wonder where you got those images from...

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

We don’t have that much team speed at WR. Pascal and Rogers are still on the roster and you have a rookie who tore his ACL still learning the game who by the way didn’t get snaps with Jacoby in training camp or preseason games.

Give it a rest LOL. They said Cain was already back in the 4.4s during TC. Campbell is in the 4.3s. TY is 4.3, maybe 4.4 these days. Hines is in the 4.3s and has the second most targets on the team.

 

So far, 45% of our targets (including TE targets) have gone to 4.4 or better guys, and that will increase as the guys get more experience. That's a big % given how much we throw to TEs. 

 

That's a lot of speed. I'd bet we are top 5 in the league.

[Creekside]

17 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I think two things impacted last year vs KC.

 

IIRC, KC had 3-4 sacks, 6ish QB hits, and a bunch of hurries. Our OL was pretty bad. So not a lot of time to let deep stuff develop. Getting down early really made us single threaded.

 

Second, we didn't have near the team speed at WR that we do this year. Outside of TY, we really didn't have anyone that could stretch the field. Rogers, Pascal, Inman, etc aren't speedy deep guys. And TY was only 4 catches on 11 targets. They doubled him and could easy one on one or zone all of our other guys. If memory serves, both Rogers and Inman had solid/reliable games but it was mostly short dink and dunk type stuff.

 

That Luck was  not seeing open receivers is unthinkable. But not even one time? NO! not once! it cannot be! (even though the typical TV view of every play is not wide enough to show deep receivers that are not getting the ball thrown to them)

 

We watch Brissett from the same restrictive angle. The camera follows the ball. Deeper receivers are out of the picture until the ball is in the air. But it is assumed they are open. Brissett is just too slow getting around to seeing them.

 

By the way, Phillip Dorsett was fast too. ...Did Luck just not see him open deep? 

 

 

 

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, egg said:

 

That Luck was  not seeing open receivers is unthinkable. But not even one time? NO! not once! it cannot be! (even though the typical TV view of every play is not wide enough to show deep receivers that are not getting the ball thrown to them)

 

We watch Brissett from the same restrictive angle. The camera follows the ball. Deeper receivers are out of the picture until the ball is in the air. But it is assumed they are open. Brissett is just too slow getting around to seeing them.

 

By the way, Phillip Dorsett was fast too. ...Did Luck just not see him open deep? 

 

geesh. i didn't say Luck never missed open guys, deep or otherwise. 

 

fact is though, KC's DL and blitzing kept Luck off balance. are you saying it did not? 

 

also, while views are sometime restricted, there are plenty of times they are not. and replays give even additional views. just because you can't see every route of every WR on every play, doesn't mean what you see on unrestricted views isn't valid. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Give it a rest LOL. They said Cain was already back in the 4.4s during TC. Campbell is in the 4.3s. TY is 4.3, maybe 4.4 these days. Hines is in the 4.3s and has the second most targets on the team.

 

So far, 45% of our targets (including TE targets) have gone to 4.4 or better guys, and that will increase as the guys get more experience. That's a big % given how much we throw to TEs. 

 

That's a lot of speed. I'd bet we are top 5 in the league.

No you need to give it a rest and realize those are factors.  Ballard and Reich both  said Cain wouldn’t be full full strength until halfway through the season.  Malik said it even took him almost a year to feel comfortable on that knee. Quite acting like Jacoby has three pro bowl WR and he just isn’t throwing to them.  Cain wasn’t even supposed to be playing this much. He was supposed to be worked back in slowly.

[Nickster]

6 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

No you need to give it a rest and realize those are factors.  Ballard and Reich both  said Cain wouldn’t be full full strength until halfway through the season.  Malik said it even took him almost a year to feel comfortable on that knee. Quite acting like Jacoby has three pro bowl WR and he just isn’t throwing to them.  Cain wasn’t even supposed to be playing this much. He was supposed to be worked back in slowly.

 

What if I think that people that defend a QB rated as poorly as JB need to give it a rest?