Pass interference review

[hoosierhawk]

This has become a total joke. The NFL obviously is trying to discourage the reviews and they are making fools of themselves. They need to eliminate reviews of PI or start overturning them properly. Heard today they have overturned like 12% so far. The one they upheld last night was so obvious it was shameful. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Al Riveron and the league are setting the bar high. Really high. The rule was created for unbelievably blown calls, not re-officiating close calls. If it somewhat close in real time, hold the red flag and keep the timeout. It's not getting reversed.  It has to be committed early and truly apparent (to everyone) the receiver was moved out sorts to a point a completion was minimized.

[crazycolt1]

Indy got hosed on two plays in the Kansas City game. 

The call on Hilton was a joke and the interception being over turned. There was not indisputable evidence to over turn that pick.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Did you guys see the PI that wasn’t overturned in the NE and Giants game. It was clear and obvious and they still didn’t overturn it. The refs are making a statement they don’t like that this is a call that can be reviewed and they are not going to over turn anything. This should never have been a reviewable in the first place because these are for the most part judgement calls.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Did you guys see the PI that wasn’t overturned in the NE and Giants game. It was clear and obvious and they still didn’t overturn it. The refs are making a statement they don’t like that this is a call that can be reviewed and they are not going to over turn anything. This should never have been a reviewable in the first place because these are for the most part judgement calls.

My guess is if it is clear in a playoff game they will overturn a call if it is obvious. I think because it is regular season the refs are not doing it.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

My guess is if it is clear in a playoff game they will overturn a call if it is obvious. I think because it is regular season the refs are not doing it.

I am not sure about that. They seem to be revolting about the rule change. It’s also not fair to the coaches because when it gets playoff time they won’t know whether to challenge it or not.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am not sure about that. They seem to be revolting about the rule change. It’s also not fair to the coaches because when it gets playoff time they won’t know whether to challenge it or not.

Reason why I think they would overturn PI in the playoffs is they do not want something to happen like last year when a teams season on the line. That would be a major bad look. I guess we will see.

[ColtsBlueFL]

11 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Did you guys see the PI that wasn’t overturned in the NE and Giants game. It was clear and obvious and they still didn’t overturn it. The refs are making a statement they don’t like that this is a call that can be reviewed and they are not going to over turn anything. This should never have been a reviewable in the first place because these are for the most part judgement calls.

 

I said it before. the bar is HIGH!!!  Like the egregious non call against the Saints ion playoffs level high. Al Riveron is not re-officiating close calls, even if it shows in HD / Slo Mo it was wrong.

 

11 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

My guess is if it is clear in a playoff game they will overturn a call if it is obvious. I think because it is regular season the refs are not doing it.

 

Yes, but it has to be obvious in real time too. Ticky Tack hand fighting/pushing and Bang/Bang plays will not get reversed. Just watch over the rest of the year.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I said it before. the bar is HIGH!!!  Like the egregious non call against the Saints ion playoffs level high. Al Riveron is not re-officiating close calls, even if it shows in HD / Slo Mo it was wrong.

 

 

Yes, but it has to be obvious in real time too. Ticky Tack hand fighting/pushing and Bang/Bang plays will not get reversed. Just watch over the rest of the year.

That one in the NE game Thursday night was pretty bad. He practically bodied slammed the guy. It wasn’t close. The TY one was obvious. It actually could of went the other way for DPI after review.

[ColtsBlueFL]

51 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

That one in the NE game Thursday night was pretty bad. He practically bodied slammed the guy. It wasn’t close. The TY one was obvious. It actually could of went the other way for DPI after review.

 

If it isn't "egregious" P.I. , it wont be reversed. Even if it was 'bad'.  Trust me. Refs have to get better, because Riveron isn't going to re-officiate the game from NY.

 

The rest of the year will prove it.

[GoColts8818]

On 10/11/2019 at 8:35 PM, ColtsBlueFL said:

Al Riveron and the league are setting the bar high. Really high. The rule was created for unbelievably blown calls, not re-officiating close calls. If it somewhat close in real time, hold the red flag and keep the timeout. It's not getting reversed.  It has to be committed early and truly apparent (to everyone) the receiver was moved out sorts to a point a completion was minimized.

The problem is they aren’t overturning the obvious calls either.  They don’t like this rule because they don’t like that coaches can challenge a judgement call.  Personally I think Goodell should go to Riveron and say enforce the rule or I will find someone who will.  With that said, Goodell’s lack of comments on this speaks volumes.  It tells me Riveron is doing what Goodell wants which is unfortunate.

[ColtsBlueFL]

7 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

The problem is they aren’t overturning the obvious calls either.  

 

Because the officials have to get it right on the field.  NY has shown they are not going to set a precedent for re-officiating OPI or DPI penalties. Unless...

 

Quote

They don’t like this rule because they don’t like that coaches can challenge a judgement call.

 

I think that is a part of it, yes.

 

Quote

Personally I think Goodell should go to Riveron and say enforce the rule or I will find someone who will.  

 

Yeah, but not going to happen.

 

Quote

With that said, Goodell’s lack of comments on this speaks volumes.  It tells me Riveron is doing what Goodell wants which is unfortunate.

 

{Chris Ballard voice on}

 

Look, the owners knew something had to be done about the horrific non call in the playoff game. But they didn't want to give Carte Blanche to coaches and have multiple stoppages within the last 2 minutes of each half. So coaches only get to challenge within the first 28 minutes, with booth review only in the last 2. And this 'refinement' (not a new rule) is only a temporary one year trial.

 

{Chris Ballard voice off}

 

From what I gather, the inherently subjective question of whether an opponent was significantly hindered while trying to catch a pass is at the root. Riveron was told to elevate the bar to overturn the on field ruling.

 

"There’s a line of thinking within the league office that favors a simple approach to determining whether to put a (red) flag on the field: If you have to slow down the video to determine whether a pass interference occurred, don’t change the ruling on the field of no interference."

 

“That’s exactly how it was intended to be” one source explained."

 

So the evolving question is determining the correct placement of the unclear line between the Rams-Saints NFC Championship blatant fail, versus the slow-motion invasion of the full-speed judgment exercised by the officials in real time on the field. That will be a 'tweak', not a big change. And it means if the HC isn't confident to throw his red flag immediately after the play, without waiting for his guys upstairs to see it in slo-mo and tell him, then just keep it in your pocket and save the timeout.

 

But the owners goal this spring was get something in place in the rules where the league could address a situation like the completely egregious Rams/Saints debacle, but have minimal impact otherwise.

 

 

 

 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

22 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am not sure about that.

 

I think the whole point of the rule is to prevent another non-PI call 2.0 from that Rams-Saints NFCCG last year.

 

When a trip to the SB is literally on the line in the last two minutes of a championship game, that rule will come into play more than on a bang-bang play in the 3rd quarter of a week 4 game.

 

I'd bet we start seeing it used more when the playoff picture is developing in the last few weeks of the season and teams playoffs hopes might be decided by an obvious PI at the end of the game.  

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Because the officials have to get it right on the field.  NY has shown they are not going to set a precedent for re-officiating OPI or DPI penalties. Unless...

 

 

I think that is a part of it, yes.

 

 

Yeah, but not going to happen.

 

 

{Chris Ballard voice on}

 

Look, the owners knew something had to be done about the horrific non call in the playoff game. But they didn't want to give Carte Blanche to coaches and have multiple stoppages within the last 2 minutes of each half. So coaches only get to challenge within the first 28 minutes, with booth review only in the last 2. And this 'refinement' (not a new rule) is only a temporary one year trial.

 

{Chris Ballard voice off}

 

From what I gather, the inherently subjective question of whether an opponent was significantly hindered while trying to catch a pass is at the root. Riveron was told to elevate the bar to overturn the on field ruling.

 

"There’s a line of thinking within the league office that favors a simple approach to determining whether to put a (red) flag on the field: If you have to slow down the video to determine whether a pass interference occurred, don’t change the ruling on the field of no interference."

 

“That’s exactly how it was intended to be” one source explained."

 

So the evolving question is determining the correct placement of the unclear line between the Rams-Saints NFC Championship blatant fail, versus the slow-motion invasion of the full-speed judgment exercised by the officials in real time on the field. That will be a 'tweak', not a big change. And it means if the HC isn't confident to throw his red flag immediately after the play, without waiting for his guys upstairs to see it in slo-mo and tell him, then just keep it in your pocket and save the timeout.

 

But the owners goal this spring was get something in place in the rules where the league could address a situation like the completely egregious Rams/Saints debacle, but have minimal impact otherwise.

 

 

 

 

The thing is they aren’t overturning plays where you don’t even have to slow down the video.  They just aren’t doing it.  They don’t like the rule so they aren’t going to enforce it in hopes that teams stop challenging it.  I think that’s how Goodell wants it or else he would do something, it doesn’t mean I have to agree with it.

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

 

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

The thing is they aren’t overturning plays where you don’t even have to slow down the video.  They just aren’t doing it.

 

That's called making a statement, because-

 

Kevin Seifert @SeifertESPN

 

Coaches: STOP challenging pass pass interference calls and non-calls that are anything short of a complete mugging. YOU WILL NOT WIN.  Coaches are now 1-20 in their last 21 challenges. Like it or not, @NFLOfficiating isn’t playing.

 

https://twitter.com/SeifertESPN/status/1182496145370701824

 

Quote

 They don’t like the rule

 

True. It's a rule for them to intervene, only in dire situations.  It has to be a mugging approaching Rams/Saint proportions. By no means if the NFL allowing it as an avenue for coaches to demand to re-officiate 3 or 4 plays every game.

 

Quote

so they aren’t going to enforce it in hopes that teams stop challenging it.  I think that’s how Goodell wants it or else he would do something, it doesn’t mean I have to agree with it.

 

Unless it is so obviously flagrant (to outsiders, not to fans with a vested interest) it can't be ignored. It's the way the NFL wants it, for the time being.  We'll see if coach/fan pressure has them alter it later.  And no coach can even do it in the last 2 minutes each half. That's booth review only.

 

I agree with those who think in close games with playoff implications later this year (or in the post season) there may be  better chance of getting a call / non call reversed. Maybe even from a coach flag before 2 minutes left in the half/game.

 

Mike Tomlin is on competition committee and had one of his P.I. challenges rejected. I'm sure discussion regarding the rule will be fervent over the winter. No matter what, the officials have to get better or we'll have 4 hour games being reviewed in slo mo in NY every game.

 

Maybe this will make people feel better, read and reply here.

 

https://twitter.com/NFLOfficiating/status/1177415795665756160

[ColtsBlueFL]

For those interested in the last reversed call as I know, it was week 2, Pete Carroll challenged a non PI call, and won (it's below).  I think there were 3 others before that. No called PI have been overturned.

 

But after this, I feel Riveron got 'the Word' that this it has to be a mugging of Epic Proportions before they (NFL) want him to reverse another. To my knowledge, he hasn't since. (one at the most)

 

https://www.seahawks.com/video/2019-week-2-pete-carroll-successfully-challenges-for-defensive-pass-interference

[Lucky Colts Fan]

Anyone watching Texans/Chiefs just saw a perfect example of how the refs are playing this:

 

Pretty obvious PI on Kelce that wasn't called, Bill O'Brien challenges, play stands.  Very next play, refs call PI on Kelce when it seemed obvious it wasn't.

 

The refs were almost challenging Reid to throw the red flag, like "you want a piece of this, too fatboy?"...  They aren't going to overturn these calls unless it's Rams/Saints level important.

[King Colt]

So far it looks like this be not be in effect next year.

[ColtsBlueFL]

8 minutes ago, King Colt said:

So far it looks like this be not be in effect next year.

 The booth stoppage/review in last 2 minutes of each half will stay, though.  If the rest does (coach challenge), that will surprise me unless they make major changes.

[poaponies]

4 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

Anyone watching Texans/Chiefs just saw a perfect example of how the refs are playing this:

 

Pretty obvious PI on Kelce that wasn't called, Bill O'Brien challenges, play stands.  Very next play, refs call PI on Kelce when it seemed obvious it wasn't.

 

The refs were almost challenging Reid to throw the red flag, like "you want a piece of this, too fatboy?"...  They aren't going to overturn these calls unless it's Rams/Saints level important.

I do wonder if it will be overtuened  more in the playoffs

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, poaponies said:

I do wonder if it will be overtuened  more in the playoffs

 

Actually, In think they do. But the evidence requirement will be 1 notch above clear and obvious that impairment, not just touching, of either the receiver or defender from properly executing their assignment, was committed.  That is still subjective on many of these calls.   The NFL can't win on this.

 

3 hours ago, runthepost said:

Houston won Watson is a problem

 

 

What? I've heard many not so flattering things about the guy on here... so... he's actually good?

 

 

/sarcasm off

 

 

 

 

[jameszeigler834]

On 10/12/2019 at 10:09 AM, crazycolt1 said:

Indy got hosed on two plays in the Kansas City game. 

The call on Hilton was a joke and the interception being over turned. There was not indisputable evidence to over turn that pick.

Both of those calls were total nonsense.

[jameszeigler834]

18 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Actually, In think they do. But the evidence requirement will be 1 notch above clear and obvious that impairment, not just touching, of either the receiver or defender from properly executing their assignment, was committed.  That is still subjective on many of these calls.   The NFL can't win on this.

 

 

 

What? I've heard many not so flattering things about the guy on here... so... he's actually good?

 

 

/sarcasm off

 

 

 

 

Decent but great no KC made him look like Montana today and he still threw two trash INT's.

[runthepost]

23 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Decent but great no KC made him look like Montana today and he still threw two trash INT's.

You must of not looked at his stats the past 16 games. He’s a top 10 qb 

[King Colt]

Professional football is looking more like grade school games we played at recess when we made up rules as the games progressed.

[hoosierhawk]

On 10/12/2019 at 11:17 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Reason why I think they would overturn PI in the playoffs is they do not want something to happen like last year when a teams season on the line. That would be a major bad look. I guess we will see.

 

Problem with this is some deserving teams won't make the playoff with the horrible calls they are making. They hosed Detroit last night that likely cost them the game. The PI on Kelce Sunday may have cost the Chiefs the game and effected our chances of the playoff. I don't see why they would change for playoff and egregiously blow calls during the regular season. It's just not PI reviews. The hands to the face last night was really bad.

[indyagent17]

This is a result of the horrible non call in the Saints playoff game, lawsuits were filed so league over reacted . the upheld call against Hilton was laughable even the the broadcasters and a former official said this will be overturned. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

This is a result of the horrible non call in the Saints playoff game, lawsuits were filed

 

Without a doubt.

 

Quote

so league over reacted .

 

Actually, they were going to underreact. The coaches, headed by Competition Committee member Sean Payton, voiced 100% support for PI calls/non calls.  However, it was reported they did only want it for the most blatant of mistakes. And not slowed down in review. Here's an article from 2 months ago for proof-

 

https://tinyurl.com/y4nl6f7d

 

So Riveron was going to review at the  same standard as rules/on field officials use. The league front office reportedly says no, it is to be a level above clear and obvious (IE: full on mugging or preemptive blow up before ball arrives). But these coaches now are challenging al P.I. and finding the close ones aren't being overturned. But that was their position originally!  Only reverse the worst of the worst. It was the possible changing the standard mid stream that has caused the mess, IMHO.

 

Quote

the upheld call against Hilton was laughable even the the broadcasters and a former official said this will be overturned. 

 

This quote I saw sums it up-  What is pass interference then?

 

{quote from an ex NFL ref}

 

"Based on what we’ve seen so far, it’s fair to assume that anything that doesn’t reach the level of the NFC Championship Game foul – as long as it doesn’t result in severed limbs – it’s not pass interference. Unless you’re Hilton, who has made more contact while standing in line at Kroger’s."

 

Bill Polian was the master of searching out Unintended Consequences when he was on the competition committee.  This P.I. rule is what the NFL gets for a knee jerk reaction and not enough scrutiny. A big brown bag filled with unintended consequences. Coaches, players, and fans do not know what P.I. is anymore.  The owners meeting is ongoing now. I'm sure it is being talked about at length.

 

[BigQungus]

On 10/12/2019 at 10:32 PM, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I said it before. the bar is HIGH!!!  Like the egregious non call against the Saints ion playoffs level high. Al Riveron is not re-officiating close calls, even if it shows in HD / Slo Mo it was wrong.

 

 

Yes, but it has to be obvious in real time too. Ticky Tack hand fighting/pushing and Bang/Bang plays will not get reversed. Just watch over the rest of the year.

 

Honestly though, part of me wonders if even that play would get reversed the way they're doing the PI reviews...

[ColtsBlueFL]

7 minutes ago, BigQungus said:

 

Honestly though, part of me wonders if even that play would get reversed the way they're doing the PI reviews...

 

Roger Goodell is having press conference.  He pretty much states they are only going to overrule the worst and most obvious of blatant mess ups in P.I. calls/non calls. (not his words, but clear that's his meaning). 

 

I bet the Rams/Saints non call barely clears the hurdle!  LOL

 

No insight on how they improve officiating.

[dw49]

On 10/12/2019 at 7:09 AM, crazycolt1 said:

Indy got hosed on two plays in the Kansas City game. 

The call on Hilton was a joke and the interception being over turned. There was not indisputable evidence to over turn that pick.

 

Unless somehow NY had a view we didn't get on that Int. , Indy was truly hosed. The only thing that makes sense is they "figured" the ball would not bounce that high off the receivers hands .. it was more like a "bounce "caused  by the ground. Probably this is true... chances are it more than likely hit his hands and the ground but that's a terrible reversal if the case. ]

 

The Hilton PI not being reversed was as some are saying here... don't bother if sledge hammers or ropes are not involved in the play. 

[gspdx]

If the refs were doing a better job doing their job this would have never happened.  So if this is really them responding to being upset about coaches second guessing their subjective calls then that is really childish.

 

It's really pretty simple.  Pass interference really isn't that subjective in most cases.  As a ref - if you have to ask yourself: was that too much contact? - then it was.  I don't think the rule says you can kind of mug a receiver before the ball arrives.

 

I know there are other factors that go into the call: was the defender playing the ball, was it incidental contact, etc.  But some of these non-calls are just horrible.