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Scott Pennock

Ballards Drafting Prowess - Since it was knocked Recently

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4 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

It has been said here recently that Ballard and Dodds have not drafted well and that they have failed to provide us fans a solid team from 1-63 on the roster. It is widely considered among NFL GM's and pundits that if you  draft and develop 2-3 starters/contributors in every draft then you are doing well. This is not even getting into the rest of roster construction through savvy trades, shrewd free agent signings and good scouting on waiver wire pick-ups.

 

2017 NFL Draft (Drafting for a Lame Duck Coach)

 

Starters: Hooker (Rated as 5th best Safety in NFL), Mack, Walker

Contributors: Wilson (Spot Starter/Nickel/Dime), Stewart (Starting this year)

Out of the NFL: None

Not on the Roster: Basham and Hairston with Jets, Banner with Steelers

Impact Player: Hooker (Rated as 5th best Safety in NFL after 2018 Season) and Mack is on the verge of being that true bellcow back

UDFA's of Note: Kenny Moore II (CB - Rated Number 2 Nickelback in NFL after 2018 season), Rigoberto Sanchez

 

1/15 - Malik Hooker, FS. Ohio State

2/46 - Quincy Wilson, CB, Florida

3/80 - Tarell Basham, OLB - Ohio University - With NY Jets

4/137 - Zach, Banner, OT, USC - With Pittsburgh Steelers

4/143 - Marlon Mack, RB, South Florida

4/144 - Grover Stewart, DT, Albany State

5/158 - Nate Hairston, CB, Temple - Traded to NY Jets for 2020 sixth-round pick

5/161 - Anthony Walker, LB, Northwestern

 

Draft Maneuvering to acquire more talent thru the draft:

 

49ers receive:
» 2017 fourth-round pick (No. 121): Joe Williams, RB, Utah

Colts receive:
» 2017 fourth-round pick (No. 143): Marlon Mack, RB, South Florida
» 2017 fifth-round pick (No. 161): Anthony Walker Jr., LB, Northwestern

 

Colts receive:

» 2017 fourth-round pick (No. 137): Zach Banner, OT, USC

Patriots receive:

» 2017 sixth-round pick (No. 200): Traded to Titans

» Dwayne Allen, TE (Cutting ties with 4.5 Million owed)

 

2018 NFL Draft (Drafting for his preferred 4-3 Defense and his preferred Offensive minded coach)

 

Starters: Quenton Nelson, Darius Leonard, Braden Smith

Contributors: All but Daurice Fountain so far (So 7 total)

Out of the NFL: 0

Not on Roster: 0

Impact Player: Quenton Nelson (All-Pro), Darius Leonard (All-Pro)

UDFA's of Note: George Odum, Mo Ali-Cox

 

1/6 - Quenton Nelson, OG, Notre Dame

2/36 - Darius Leonard, OLB, South Carolina State

2/37 - Braden Smith, OG, Auburn

2/52 - Kemoko Turay, DE, Rutgers

2/64 - Lewis, Tyquan, DE, Ohio State

4/104 - Nyheim Hines, RB, NC State

5/159 - Daurice Fountain, WR, UNI

6/169 - Jordan Wilkins, RB, Ole Miss

6/185 - Deon Cain, WR, Clemson

7/221 - Matthew Adams, LB, Houston

7/235 - Zaire Franklin, LB, Syracuse

 

Draft Maneuvering to acquire more talent thru the draft:

 

Jets receive:

» 2018 first-round pick (No. 3) -- Sam Darnold, QB, USC

Colts receive:
» 2018 first-round pick (No. 6) -- Quenton Nelson, G, Notre Dame
» 2018 second-round pick (No. 37) -- Braden Smith, G, Auburn
» 2018 second-round pick (No. 49) -- traded to Philadelphia
» 2019 second-round pick (No. 34) -- Rock Ya Sin, CB, Temple

 

Eagles receive:

» 2018 second-round pick (No. 49) -- Dallas Goedert, TE, South Dakota St.

Colts receive:
» 2018 second-round pick (No. 52) -- Kemoko Turay, DE, Rutgers
» 2018 fifth-round pick (No. 169) -- Jordan Wilkins, RB, Mississippi

 

Colts receive:

» 2018 second-round pick (No. 64) -- Tyquan Lewis, DE, Ohio State

Browns receive:
» 2018 third-round pick (No. 67) -- Chad Thomas, DE, Miami
» 2018 sixth-round pick (No. 178) -- traded to Patriots

 

Colts receive:

» 2018 sixth-round pick (No. 235) -- Zaire Franklin, LB, Syracuse

Jets receive:
» Henry Anderson, DE

 

Raiders receive:
» 2018 fifth-round pick (No. 140) -- Maurice Hurst, DT, Michigan

Colts receive:
» 2018 fifth-round pick (No. 159) -- Daurice Fountain, WR, Northern Iowa
» 2018 sixth-round pick (No. 185) -- Deon Cain, WR, Clemson

 

2019 NFL Draft (Drafting for Depth): Keep in mind we are 5 games into these players first season as Rookies

 

Starters: Rock Ya Sin, Khari Willis

Contributors: Ben Banogu, Parris Campbell, Bobby Okereke, Marvell Tell, E.J. Speed

****(Green and Barton are on the PS & Patterson is IR'd)

Out of the NFL: 0

Not on the Roster: 0

Impact Player: None

UDFA's of Note: None

 

2/34 - Rock Ya Sin, CB, Temple

2/49 - Ben Banogu, DE, TCU

2/59 - Parris Campbell, WR, Ohio State

3/89 - Bobby Okereke, LB, Stanford

4/109 - Khari Willis, SS, Michigan State

5/144 - Marvell Tell III, DB, USC

5/164 - E.J. Speed, LB, Tarleton State

6/199 - Gerri Green, DE, Mississippi State

7/240 - Jackson Barton, OT, Utah

7/246 - Javon Patterson, C, Ole Miss

 

Draft Maneuvering to acquire more talent thru the draft:

 

Redskins receive:
» 2019 first-round pick (No. 26; select Edge Montez Sweat)

Colts receive:
» 2019 second-round pick (No. 46; trade to Browns)
» 2020 second-round pick

 

Browns receive:
» 2019 second-round pick (No. 46; select Greedy Williams)

Colts receive:
» 2019 second-round pick (No. 49; select LB Ben Banogu)
» 2019 fifth-round pick (No. 144; select S Marvell Tell III)

 

Colts receive:
» 2019 fourth-round (No. 109; select S Khari Willis)

Raiders receive:
» 2019 fourth-round (No. 129; select CB Isaiah Johnson)
» 2019 fourth-round (No. 135; trade to Atlanta)

 

Eagles receive:
» Hassan Ridgeway, DT

Colts receive:
» 2019 seventh-round (No. 246; select G Javon Patterson)

 

2020 NFL Draft (Ballard has added 2 extra picks and a conditional trade moving up draft spots in the 7th)

 

1

2 (From Washington)

2

3

4

5

6 (From N.Y. Jets)

6

7

 

Draft Maneuvering to acquire more talent thru the draft:

 

Redskins receive:
» 2019 first-round pick (No. 26; select Edge Montez Sweat)

Colts receive:
» 2019 second-round pick (No. 46; trade to Browns for No. 49)

» 2019 second-round pick (No. 49; select DE Ben Banogu)
» 2020 second-round pick

 

Colts receive:
» 2020 sixth-round pick

Jets receive:
» Nate Hairston

 

Colts receive:
» 2020 conditional 6th or 7th round pick

Dolphins receive:
» Evan Boehm

 

Overall Draft Stats thru three drafts as Colts GM:

Draft Picks: 29

Still With Team: 26    <-------- 90% still on the roster

Out of the NFL: 0        <-------- This is huge for any GM

On another Team: 3

Starters: 8                     <-------- Averaging over 2.5 per draft (So far)

Impact Players: 4.5     <-------- Hooker, Moore, Leonard, Nelson and I gave a half for Mack because he's becoming that bellcow back we needed

Contributors: 14

IR or PS: 4

UDFA Starters: 2

UDFA Contributors: 2

 

For those that think his drafts have been unsuccessful, the stats play out differently at this point - and we're only 5 games into the 3rd Draft. If Brissett (which was a savvy trade in and of itself) can lead this team of mostly draft picks to a winning record this year then even the overall success of the team will spell out he has drafted well.

 

Wow that's a lot...

 

Mack is definitely an impact player, through and through. He's 4th in the NFL in rushing!

 

Also, Anthony Walker should get more credit. No shoutout for him?

 

No one realistically should be calling Ballard out for anything. That's a long post to address some half-baked trolls... not that I'm complaining though lmao

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58 minutes ago, BigQungus said:

 

Wow that's a lot...

 

Mack is definitely an impact player, through and through. He's 4th in the NFL in rushing!

 

Also, Anthony Walker should get more credit. No shoutout for him?

 

No one realistically should be calling Ballard out for anything. That's a long post to address some half-baked trolls... not that I'm complaining though lmao

 

At this point I think most expect Okereke to displace Walker in that starting spot after the way he played against KC, which is fine, because we could do a lot worse than Walker as a depth backup LB.

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18 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

At this point I think most expect Okereke to displace Walker in that starting spot after the way he played against KC, which is fine, because we could do a lot worse than Walker as a depth backup LB.

I was just about to say the same thing

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1 hour ago, Scott Pennock said:

It has been said here recently that Ballard and Dodds have not drafted well and that they have failed to provide us fans a solid team from 1-63 on the roster. It is widely considered among NFL GM's and pundits that if you  draft and develop 2-3 starters/contributors in every draft then you are doing well. This is not even getting into the rest of roster construction through savvy trades, shrewd free agent signings and good scouting on waiver wire pick-ups.

 

2017 NFL Draft (Drafting for a Lame Duck Coach)

 

Starters: Hooker (Rated as 5th best Safety in NFL), Mack, Walker

Contributors: Wilson (Spot Starter/Nickel/Dime), Stewart (Starting this year)

Out of the NFL: None

Not on the Roster: Basham and Hairston with Jets, Banner with Steelers

Impact Player: Hooker (Rated as 5th best Safety in NFL after 2018 Season) and Mack is on the verge of being that true bellcow back

UDFA's of Note: Kenny Moore II (CB - Rated Number 2 Nickelback in NFL after 2018 season), Rigoberto Sanchez

 

1/15 - Malik Hooker, FS. Ohio State

2/46 - Quincy Wilson, CB, Florida

3/80 - Tarell Basham, OLB - Ohio University - With NY Jets

4/137 - Zach, Banner, OT, USC - With Pittsburgh Steelers

4/143 - Marlon Mack, RB, South Florida

4/144 - Grover Stewart, DT, Albany State

5/158 - Nate Hairston, CB, Temple - Traded to NY Jets for 2020 sixth-round pick

5/161 - Anthony Walker, LB, Northwestern

 

Draft Maneuvering to acquire more talent thru the draft:

 

49ers receive:
» 2017 fourth-round pick (No. 121): Joe Williams, RB, Utah

Colts receive:
» 2017 fourth-round pick (No. 143): Marlon Mack, RB, South Florida
» 2017 fifth-round pick (No. 161): Anthony Walker Jr., LB, Northwestern

 

Colts receive:

» 2017 fourth-round pick (No. 137): Zach Banner, OT, USC

Patriots receive:

» 2017 sixth-round pick (No. 200): Traded to Titans

» Dwayne Allen, TE (Cutting ties with 4.5 Million owed)

 

2018 NFL Draft (Drafting for his preferred 4-3 Defense and his preferred Offensive minded coach)

 

Starters: Quenton Nelson, Darius Leonard, Braden Smith

Contributors: All but Daurice Fountain so far (So 7 total)

Out of the NFL: 0

Not on Roster: 0

Impact Player: Quenton Nelson (All-Pro), Darius Leonard (All-Pro)

UDFA's of Note: George Odum, Mo Ali-Cox

 

1/6 - Quenton Nelson, OG, Notre Dame

2/36 - Darius Leonard, OLB, South Carolina State

2/37 - Braden Smith, OG, Auburn

2/52 - Kemoko Turay, DE, Rutgers

2/64 - Lewis, Tyquan, DE, Ohio State

4/104 - Nyheim Hines, RB, NC State

5/159 - Daurice Fountain, WR, UNI

6/169 - Jordan Wilkins, RB, Ole Miss

6/185 - Deon Cain, WR, Clemson

7/221 - Matthew Adams, LB, Houston

7/235 - Zaire Franklin, LB, Syracuse

 

Draft Maneuvering to acquire more talent thru the draft:

 

Jets receive:

» 2018 first-round pick (No. 3) -- Sam Darnold, QB, USC

Colts receive:
» 2018 first-round pick (No. 6) -- Quenton Nelson, G, Notre Dame
» 2018 second-round pick (No. 37) -- Braden Smith, G, Auburn
» 2018 second-round pick (No. 49) -- traded to Philadelphia
» 2019 second-round pick (No. 34) -- Rock Ya Sin, CB, Temple

 

Eagles receive:

» 2018 second-round pick (No. 49) -- Dallas Goedert, TE, South Dakota St.

Colts receive:
» 2018 second-round pick (No. 52) -- Kemoko Turay, DE, Rutgers
» 2018 fifth-round pick (No. 169) -- Jordan Wilkins, RB, Mississippi

 

Colts receive:

» 2018 second-round pick (No. 64) -- Tyquan Lewis, DE, Ohio State

Browns receive:
» 2018 third-round pick (No. 67) -- Chad Thomas, DE, Miami
» 2018 sixth-round pick (No. 178) -- traded to Patriots

 

Colts receive:

» 2018 sixth-round pick (No. 235) -- Zaire Franklin, LB, Syracuse

Jets receive:
» Henry Anderson, DE

 

Raiders receive:
» 2018 fifth-round pick (No. 140) -- Maurice Hurst, DT, Michigan

Colts receive:
» 2018 fifth-round pick (No. 159) -- Daurice Fountain, WR, Northern Iowa
» 2018 sixth-round pick (No. 185) -- Deon Cain, WR, Clemson

 

2019 NFL Draft (Drafting for Depth): Keep in mind we are 5 games into these players first season as Rookies

 

Starters: Rock Ya Sin, Khari Willis

Contributors: Ben Banogu, Parris Campbell, Bobby Okereke, Marvell Tell, E.J. Speed

****(Green and Barton are on the PS & Patterson is IR'd)

Out of the NFL: 0

Not on the Roster: 0

Impact Player: None

UDFA's of Note: None

 

2/34 - Rock Ya Sin, CB, Temple

2/49 - Ben Banogu, DE, TCU

2/59 - Parris Campbell, WR, Ohio State

3/89 - Bobby Okereke, LB, Stanford

4/109 - Khari Willis, SS, Michigan State

5/144 - Marvell Tell III, DB, USC

5/164 - E.J. Speed, LB, Tarleton State

6/199 - Gerri Green, DE, Mississippi State

7/240 - Jackson Barton, OT, Utah

7/246 - Javon Patterson, C, Ole Miss

 

Draft Maneuvering to acquire more talent thru the draft:

 

Redskins receive:
» 2019 first-round pick (No. 26; select Edge Montez Sweat)

Colts receive:
» 2019 second-round pick (No. 46; trade to Browns)
» 2020 second-round pick

 

Browns receive:
» 2019 second-round pick (No. 46; select Greedy Williams)

Colts receive:
» 2019 second-round pick (No. 49; select LB Ben Banogu)
» 2019 fifth-round pick (No. 144; select S Marvell Tell III)

 

Colts receive:
» 2019 fourth-round (No. 109; select S Khari Willis)

Raiders receive:
» 2019 fourth-round (No. 129; select CB Isaiah Johnson)
» 2019 fourth-round (No. 135; trade to Atlanta)

 

Eagles receive:
» Hassan Ridgeway, DT

Colts receive:
» 2019 seventh-round (No. 246; select G Javon Patterson)

 

2020 NFL Draft (Ballard has added 2 extra picks and a conditional trade moving up draft spots in the 7th)

 

1

2 (From Washington)

2

3

4

5

6 (From N.Y. Jets)

6

7

 

Draft Maneuvering to acquire more talent thru the draft:

 

Redskins receive:
» 2019 first-round pick (No. 26; select Edge Montez Sweat)

Colts receive:
» 2019 second-round pick (No. 46; trade to Browns for No. 49)

» 2019 second-round pick (No. 49; select DE Ben Banogu)
» 2020 second-round pick

 

Colts receive:
» 2020 sixth-round pick

Jets receive:
» Nate Hairston

 

Colts receive:
» 2020 conditional 6th or 7th round pick

Dolphins receive:
» Evan Boehm

 

Overall Draft Stats thru three drafts as Colts GM:

Draft Picks: 29

Still With Team: 26    <-------- 90% still on the roster

Out of the NFL: 0        <-------- This is huge for any GM

On another Team: 3

Starters: 8                     <-------- Averaging over 2.5 per draft (So far)

Impact Players: 4.5     <-------- Hooker, Moore, Leonard, Nelson and I gave a half for Mack because he's becoming that bellcow back we needed

Contributors: 14

IR or PS: 4

UDFA Starters: 2

UDFA Contributors: 2

 

For those that think his drafts have been unsuccessful, the stats play out differently at this point - and we're only 5 games into the 3rd Draft. If Brissett (which was a savvy trade in and of itself) can lead this team of mostly draft picks to a winning record this year then even the overall success of the team will spell out he has drafted well.

Think most questions came from the defensive side of the ball. Thus far Leonard, Moore and Hooker, though of oft injured, have done well

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1 minute ago, csmopar said:

I was just about to say the same thing

 

Same with Willis over Geathers, which I fully expect after this last game. I've even seen some people say they'd like to see Odum over Hooker, but that's just crazy to me.

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2 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Same with Willis over Geathers, which I fully expect after this last game. I've even seen some people say they'd like to see Odum over Hooker, but that's just crazy to me.


Agreed on both counts.  Odum isn’t in the same league as Hooker.  But he is available, and we all know that’s one of the most important abilities.  

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That was a lot too read sheesh.

 

But I’ll respond by saying that no one is saying Ballard is a bad drafter, but there have been some misses, particularly early on. In 2017 Wilson and Basham. The 2nd and 3rd round picks respectively. Mack looks like a steal though.

 

2018 was phenomenal. His first 3 picks were all starters who played at a high level and two were All-Pro. However the jury is still out on Turray and Lewis who were 2nd rounders. Lewis doesn’t seem like he’ll ever be anything special when he’s healthy, but that’s just my opinion. 

 

2019 class is all rookies and so far we’ve seen little return on the first 3 picks (Rock, Banogu, And Campbell), but that’s to be expected to some degree. The production has surprisingly come from Okereke and Willis.

 

The biggest knock is the lack of attention to the interior defensive line. He’s drafted Stewart who is solid depth and Lewis who is often injured, undersized, And doesn’t look to be special.

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JMO - I don't understand how any fan could look think that Ballard has had any thing close to a bad draft or a bad trade. I would bet his good and great moves cancel out any bad ones by far. 

This team was lacking big time in talent when he arrived.   Not so now.

 

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It's a long season.  The jury is still out on the D specifically the line.  They r undersized and struggle against good big offensive lines.  And trust me,  you will run into good offensive lines in the play offs if u make it that far.  I want to c draft capital spent on the interior next year.   It doesn't matter how many drafts he hits on in the back end if the Colts line is not a force up front. The KC game showed how important  the rush is to the success of this  defensive.

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I agree.  I haven't read many comments that say that Ballard is a bad drafter.  I only read that about Grigson.  

 

I mean, if pointing out some ways where capital wasn't maximized given the known alternatives, where we know in the real world there are unknown alternatives we know nothing about, is being interpreted as Ballard being a bad drafter, then we have a comprehension problem.  Or a simple hero-worship bias that renders reading anything less than god-like comments as being an insult.  But I haven't read all Ballard related comments.

 

I don't think his possible draft imperfections rise to the level to where we need a 3000 word post defending his drafting. 

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12 hours ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Think most questions came from the defensive side of the ball. Thus far Leonard, Moore and Hooker, though of oft injured, have done well

Hooker is often injured but otherwise good to say he hasn't draft well especially the last two drafts is nonsense don't know who was saying that but the facts that were posted here prove that person wrong I hope Ballard can continue his stocking picks and keep this team competing for years to come but I also hope he will start trying to pickup maybe one higher priced free agent per year wouldn't hurt.

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12 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

That was a lot too read sheesh.

 

But I’ll respond by saying that no one is saying Ballard is a bad drafter, but there have been some misses, particularly early on. In 2017 Wilson and Basham. The 2nd and 3rd round picks respectively. Mack looks like a steal though.

 

2018 was phenomenal. His first 3 picks were all starters who played at a high level and two were All-Pro. However the jury is still out on Turray and Lewis who were 2nd rounders. Lewis doesn’t seem like he’ll ever be anything special when he’s healthy, but that’s just my opinion. 

 

2019 class is all rookies and so far we’ve seen little return on the first 3 picks (Rock, Banogu, And Campbell), but that’s to be expected to some degree. The production has surprisingly come from Okereke and Willis.

 

The biggest knock is the lack of attention to the interior defensive line. He’s drafted Stewart who is solid depth and Lewis who is often injured, undersized, And doesn’t look to be special.

 

This is my biggest beef with the drafting too, lack of beef in the middle. :) 

 

I understand not everything can be addressed via the draft, so I hope we augment the middle a little more via FA or the draft the coming off season. 

 

As far as the OP, thanks for taking the effort. Most of us probably are worried only what the Colts did with our picks as to what the other teams did with our traded picks, but your research is appreciated. 

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A troll posting that Ballard is bad does not necessitate a thesis on the matter. Whoever said that is trash.

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The things that speak the most volume to me is what happens to the players that get cut from our roster

 

It would seem that in past years, most are out of the NFL.  We had a few decent players, but our bottom 1/4th  of our roster would not be able to make another NFL teams roster........

 

 

Today....... our cuts are MUCH better players than in past years, which means that our overall roster is getting better year over year

 

Next year cuts may be much worse, which is a GOOD thing.

 

Some of the 'good' players that have been developing in the Colts system may not make it

 

What do you do with Lewis, Zaire Franklin, Quincy Wilson, next year?

 

I would think we would want to get 

 

OL depth (OT PLEASE)

DL starters (DE, DT) 

TE (I dont see us putting up huge $$ for Ebron. I am tiring of his drops)

 

An a  additional thought.... now that our roster  is deeper, and we can take some risks.

 

 As an Ohio State fan, I would LOVE to have Chase Young. I can see him being the ALL Pro DE in the NFL for the next 10-12 years...... he is that good........  He is better than either of the Bosa's

 

This is that ONE rare year, where I would trade picks to move up to get him

 

It may cost us 2 firsts, this year and next, and at least one our second round picks

 

But...... I think he would be worth it

 

As we are losing draft capitol, while we have enormous cap space, we can fill in with FAs that fit our system..... 

 

Lastly, I would add that this is done only with the belief that JB has continued to develop, and grow to be a top 10 QB. 

 

If JB takes a big fall off, you would have to save draft capitol to get our next QB.......

 

But either way....... I agree with the OP's thought (It was 2 hours of good reading  :) )

 

Ballard has done an excellent job drafting.... not perfect, but mostly hits

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Every GM has his hits and misses, and its not about draft picks exclusively.  Its overall use of capital.  Adding players, letting others go, churning the roster.  Hits and misses. Alternative choices, and none of us know what those really are.  Its really pretty pointless to strongly praise or criticize any GM, because so much of his success depends upon things out of his control.  JMO.

 

Henry Anderson and Denzelle Good are players from the old regime that are playing well for other teams. Scheme matters, but could we have saved the money we're paying Glow and keep Good?  Hard to say.

 

CB has hung on to Geathers way too long, where having a proper SS improves the defense by alot, as we see.

 

A GM takes the opportunities he's presented.  He picks Smith at 37, calls him the last available starting caliber G, then the player works out to be a pretty good RT.

 

He sees Ya-sin at 26.  Thinks he, or a similar player, will be there at 34.  Because its all good at 34, he takes a trade from the Skins that's probably under compensated relative to that draft value chart, but making the trade gets you the player and a lot more capital than holding out for incrementally more capital to make the trade fair.  He then gets that extra capital by moving down from 46 to 49 to get a 5th round pick and the player he wanted at 46.  Its was all good then, and now the Skins are 0-5 and it makes CB look like Ghandi.

 

You can nitpick Hooker and his replacement Odum.  Factor in that Hooker was pick 15 and Odum was an UDFA, and you have to wonder what our overall FS play and availability would look like if we could get a much more talented Odum at pick 40. 

 

Nelson was pick 6.  CB skipped a trade.  While its great that Nelson pancakes guys, the play in KC where Mack runs up the middle after Nelson blocks two defenders shows why he's great.  He pushed the first guy out of the way, then shielded the second defender several yards past the LOS.  If he pancaked the first guy, fell over and laid on him for 3 seconds, Mack would've probably had only a 5 yard gain.  While a G obtained in a trade down, say pick 20 quality G, probably could not have pancaked the first guy, he may have been able to push the first guy out of the way and shield the second guy too. 

 

What do you want to get for the capital you spend?  How often can you really use that extra talent in a meaningful way?

 

This is where the nitpicking comes in.  But that doesn't really weigh much when it comes to evaluating if a GM drafts well or not, in a broad sense, especially when none of us know the alternatives.  As the roster churns and it improves over time, then the GM is making good decisions, IMO. But pointing out nitpicks isn't the same as hate, as some might choose to interpret it.

 

Thanks to @Scott Pennock for putting the post together.  I wasn't meaning to come off as critical of that effort with my first post.  It was more about there not being a real need to do it, IMO.

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1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

The things that speak the most volume to me is what happens to the players that get cut from our roster

 

It would seem that in past years, most are out of the NFL.  We had a few decent players, but our bottom 1/4th  of our roster would not be able to make another NFL teams roster........

 

 

Today....... our cuts are MUCH better players than in past years, which means that our overall roster is getting better year over year

 

Next year cuts may be much worse, which is a GOOD thing.

 

Some of the 'good' players that have been developing in the Colts system may not make it

 

What do you do with Lewis, Zaire Franklin, Quincy Wilson, next year?

 

I would think we would want to get 

 

OL depth (OT PLEASE)

DL starters (DE, DT) 

TE (I dont see us putting up huge $$ for Ebron. I am tiring of his drops)

 

An a  additional thought.... now that our roster  is deeper, and we can take some risks.

 

 As an Ohio State fan, I would LOVE to have Chase Young. I can see him being the ALL Pro DE in the NFL for the next 10-12 years...... he is that good........  He is better than either of the Bosa's

 

This is that ONE rare year, where I would trade picks to move up to get him

 

It may cost us 2 firsts, this year and next, and at least one our second round picks

 

But...... I think he would be worth it

 

As we are losing draft capitol, while we have enormous cap space, we can fill in with FAs that fit our system..... 

 

Lastly, I would add that this is done only with the belief that JB has continued to develop, and grow to be a top 10 QB. 

 

If JB takes a big fall off, you would have to save draft capitol to get our next QB.......

 

But either way....... I agree with the OP's thought (It was 2 hours of good reading  :) )

 

Ballard has done an excellent job drafting.... not perfect, but mostly hits

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not only are other players being signed, they are sticking. When our young players are contributing as much as they have, it makes you wonder if that'll help in the compensatory pick aspect.

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2 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

 

 

Ballard has done an excellent job drafting.... not perfect, but mostly hits

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't recall a GM ever hitting on this many draft picks before.   So I would say he may be close to perfect.

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2 hours ago, DougDew said:

You can nitpick Hooker and his replacement Odum.  Factor in that Hooker was pick 15 and Odum was an UDFA, and you have to wonder what our overall FS play and availability would look like if we could get a much more talented Odum at pick 40. 

 

Nelson was pick 6.  CB skipped a trade.  While its great that Nelson pancakes guys, the play in KC where Mack runs up the middle after Nelson blocks two defenders shows why he's great.  He pushed the first guy out of the way, then shielded the second defender several yards past the LOS.  If he pancaked the first guy, fell over and laid on him for 3 seconds, Mack would've probably had only a 5 yard gain.  While a G obtained in a trade down, say pick 20 quality G, probably could not have pancaked the first guy, he may have been able to push the first guy out of the way and shield the second guy too. 

 

What do you want to get for the capital you spend?  How often can you really use that extra talent in a meaningful way?

 

This is where the nitpicking comes in.

 

You just couldn't resist could you?  :lol:

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18 hours ago, BigQungus said:

 

Wow that's a lot...

 

Mack is definitely an impact player, through and through. He's 4th in the NFL in rushing!

 

Also, Anthony Walker should get more credit. No shoutout for him?

 

No one realistically should be calling Ballard out for anything. That's a long post to address some half-baked trolls... not that I'm complaining though lmao

 

 The subject has been beaten to death here, so here ya go NEW board members.
 The jury is still out on how good a drafter our staff is. Let's hope by Mid-season 2021 it will look very special.

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10 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

It's a long season.  The jury is still out on the D specifically the line.  They r undersized and struggle against good big offensive lines.  And trust me,  you will run into good offensive lines in the play offs if u make it that far.  I want to c draft capital spent on the interior next year.   It doesn't matter how many drafts he hits on in the back end if the Colts line is not a force up front. The KC game showed how important  the rush is to the success of this  defensive.

In the last three years who could we have drafted to be the beast in the middle?  

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Not a fan of lewis. Fountain  could be good if he can get healthy and stay that way. Campbell needs to be used in the slot til he masters the outside. He needs to be in that welker, brandon stokely  type role. Cain n.v ot sure about yet. Willis  looks good. I do like Odom. Hooker  is good but gets hurt alot.

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4 hours ago, DougDew said:

Every GM has his hits and misses, and its not about draft picks exclusively.  Its overall use of capital.  Adding players, letting others go, churning the roster.  Hits and misses. Alternative choices, and none of us know what those really are.  Its really pretty pointless to strongly praise or criticize any GM, because so much of his success depends upon things out of his control.  JMO.

 

Henry Anderson and Denzelle Good are players from the old regime that are playing well for other teams. Scheme matters, but could we have saved the money we're paying Glow and keep Good?  Hard to say.

 

CB has hung on to Geathers way too long, where having a proper SS improves the defense by alot, as we see.

 

A GM takes the opportunities he's presented.  He picks Smith at 37, calls him the last available starting caliber G, then the player works out to be a pretty good RT.

 

He sees Ya-sin at 26.  Thinks he, or a similar player, will be there at 34.  Because its all good at 34, he takes a trade from the Skins that's probably under compensated relative to that draft value chart, but making the trade gets you the player and a lot more capital than holding out for incrementally more capital to make the trade fair.  He then gets that extra capital by moving down from 46 to 49 to get a 5th round pick and the player he wanted at 46.  Its was all good then, and now the Skins are 0-5 and it makes CB look like Ghandi.

 

You can nitpick Hooker and his replacement Odum.  Factor in that Hooker was pick 15 and Odum was an UDFA, and you have to wonder what our overall FS play and availability would look like if we could get a much more talented Odum at pick 40. 

 

Nelson was pick 6.  CB skipped a trade.  While its great that Nelson pancakes guys, the play in KC where Mack runs up the middle after Nelson blocks two defenders shows why he's great.  He pushed the first guy out of the way, then shielded the second defender several yards past the LOS.  If he pancaked the first guy, fell over and laid on him for 3 seconds, Mack would've probably had only a 5 yard gain.  While a G obtained in a trade down, say pick 20 quality G, probably could not have pancaked the first guy, he may have been able to push the first guy out of the way and shield the second guy too. 

 

What do you want to get for the capital you spend?  How often can you really use that extra talent in a meaningful way?

 

This is where the nitpicking comes in.  But that doesn't really weigh much when it comes to evaluating if a GM drafts well or not, in a broad sense, especially when none of us know the alternatives.  As the roster churns and it improves over time, then the GM is making good decisions, IMO. But pointing out nitpicks isn't the same as hate, as some might choose to interpret it.

 

Thanks to @Scott Pennock for putting the post together.  I wasn't meaning to come off as critical of that effort with my first post.  It was more about there not being a real need to do it, IMO.

I see you mentioned Ghandi. Did you know he got really bad feet wearing those flip flops. And he had a bad diet which left him malnourished and gave him bad breath. Yup, he was a 'super calloused fragile mystic vexed by hallitosis'......... 

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21 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Not a fan of lewis. Fountain  could be good if he can get healthy and stay that way. Campbell needs to be used in the slot til he masters the outside. He needs to be in that welker, brandon stokely  type role. Cain n.v ot sure about yet. Willis  looks good. I do like Odom. Hooker  is good but gets hurt alot.

I don't know if you can really judge a GMs draft by looking at middle/late rounders who may or may not contribute much.  Some of that success or lack of it is born from changing circumstances.

 

GMs should get credit for guys like Mathis.  Outside of that, I think the middle/late rounder can contribute, but they don't really move the needle.

 

The GMs have to hit on their first three round picks with decent success, or else the roster gets worse and not better over time, IMO. 

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4 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

I see you mentioned Ghandi. Did you know he got really bad feet wearing those flip flops. And he had a bad diet which left him malnourished and gave him bad breath. Yup, he was a 'super calloused fragile mystic vexed by hallitosis'......... 

How is it that so many cultures simply ignored arch supports?  Even Jimmy Buffett did.  That's about all I here about when it comes to feet.

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7 hours ago, DougDew said:

Every GM has his hits and misses, and its not about draft picks exclusively.  Its overall use of capital.  Adding players, letting others go, churning the roster.  Hits and misses. Alternative choices, and none of us know what those really are.  Its really pretty pointless to strongly praise or criticize any GM, because so much of his success depends upon things out of his control.  JMO.

 

Henry Anderson and Denzelle Good are players from the old regime that are playing well for other teams. Scheme matters, but could we have saved the money we're paying Glow and keep Good?  Hard to say.

 

CB has hung on to Geathers way too long, where having a proper SS improves the defense by alot, as we see.

 

A GM takes the opportunities he's presented.  He picks Smith at 37, calls him the last available starting caliber G, then the player works out to be a pretty good RT.

 

He sees Ya-sin at 26.  Thinks he, or a similar player, will be there at 34.  Because its all good at 34, he takes a trade from the Skins that's probably under compensated relative to that draft value chart, but making the trade gets you the player and a lot more capital than holding out for incrementally more capital to make the trade fair.  He then gets that extra capital by moving down from 46 to 49 to get a 5th round pick and the player he wanted at 46.  Its was all good then, and now the Skins are 0-5 and it makes CB look like Ghandi.

 

You can nitpick Hooker and his replacement Odum.  Factor in that Hooker was pick 15 and Odum was an UDFA, and you have to wonder what our overall FS play and availability would look like if we could get a much more talented Odum at pick 40. 

 

Nelson was pick 6.  CB skipped a trade.  While its great that Nelson pancakes guys, the play in KC where Mack runs up the middle after Nelson blocks two defenders shows why he's great.  He pushed the first guy out of the way, then shielded the second defender several yards past the LOS.  If he pancaked the first guy, fell over and laid on him for 3 seconds, Mack would've probably had only a 5 yard gain.  While a G obtained in a trade down, say pick 20 quality G, probably could not have pancaked the first guy, he may have been able to push the first guy out of the way and shield the second guy too. 

 

What do you want to get for the capital you spend?  How often can you really use that extra talent in a meaningful way?

 

This is where the nitpicking comes in.  But that doesn't really weigh much when it comes to evaluating if a GM drafts well or not, in a broad sense, especially when none of us know the alternatives.  As the roster churns and it improves over time, then the GM is making good decisions, IMO. But pointing out nitpicks isn't the same as hate, as some might choose to interpret it.

 

Thanks to @Scott Pennock for putting the post together.  I wasn't meaning to come off as critical of that effort with my first post.  It was more about there not being a real need to do it, IMO.

 

Ok... I'm gonna say it... after all these years I finally get to say it!!!

 

If you don't know, I have been reading this forum for a long time, but I couldn't join because the security check was glitching or something...

 

but anyways...

 

O LINEMEN ARE TAUGHT TO PANCAKE THEIR OPPONENTS SO THAT THEY DON'T GET UP AGAIN UNLESS THEY'RE THE LEAD BLOCKER IN RUNS LIKE IN THE PLAY AGAINST KC.

 

I'm not trying to be rude with the all caps, but I was just excited to finally say it after a long time.

 

There. I did it

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7 hours ago, DougDew said:

Every GM has his hits and misses, and its not about draft picks exclusively.  Its overall use of capital.  Adding players, letting others go, churning the roster.  Hits and misses. Alternative choices, and none of us know what those really are.  Its really pretty pointless to strongly praise or criticize any GM, because so much of his success depends upon things out of his control.  JMO.

 

Henry Anderson and Denzelle Good are players from the old regime that are playing well for other teams. Scheme matters, but could we have saved the money we're paying Glow and keep Good?  Hard to say.

 

CB has hung on to Geathers way too long, where having a proper SS improves the defense by alot, as we see.

 

A GM takes the opportunities he's presented.  He picks Smith at 37, calls him the last available starting caliber G, then the player works out to be a pretty good RT.

 

He sees Ya-sin at 26.  Thinks he, or a similar player, will be there at 34.  Because its all good at 34, he takes a trade from the Skins that's probably under compensated relative to that draft value chart, but making the trade gets you the player and a lot more capital than holding out for incrementally more capital to make the trade fair.  He then gets that extra capital by moving down from 46 to 49 to get a 5th round pick and the player he wanted at 46.  Its was all good then, and now the Skins are 0-5 and it makes CB look like Ghandi.

 

You can nitpick Hooker and his replacement Odum.  Factor in that Hooker was pick 15 and Odum was an UDFA, and you have to wonder what our overall FS play and availability would look like if we could get a much more talented Odum at pick 40. 

 

Nelson was pick 6.  CB skipped a trade.  While its great that Nelson pancakes guys, the play in KC where Mack runs up the middle after Nelson blocks two defenders shows why he's great.  He pushed the first guy out of the way, then shielded the second defender several yards past the LOS.  If he pancaked the first guy, fell over and laid on him for 3 seconds, Mack would've probably had only a 5 yard gain.  While a G obtained in a trade down, say pick 20 quality G, probably could not have pancaked the first guy, he may have been able to push the first guy out of the way and shield the second guy too. 

 

What do you want to get for the capital you spend?  How often can you really use that extra talent in a meaningful way?

 

This is where the nitpicking comes in.  But that doesn't really weigh much when it comes to evaluating if a GM drafts well or not, in a broad sense, especially when none of us know the alternatives.  As the roster churns and it improves over time, then the GM is making good decisions, IMO. But pointing out nitpicks isn't the same as hate, as some might choose to interpret it.

 

Thanks to @Scott Pennock for putting the post together.  I wasn't meaning to come off as critical of that effort with my first post.  It was more about there not being a real need to do it, IMO.

 

Anyways...

 

Good isn't as good as Glow IMO, and anyways he's a Tackle. But I see your overall point.

 

Odum isn't in the same league as Hooker. Don't get me wrong, he was great for us last week, but....... just no. Hooker has been fine other than the injuries. He's a top 5 safety when healthy. I have no regrets with that pick.

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7 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

In the last three years who could we have drafted to be the beast in the middle?  

Honestly......I wanted Simmons.  I said before the draft that he would b our only chance to get a top 5 player later  in the draft because of injury.  This D needs an impactful DT.  They r hard to get unless u pick in the top 10 or get lucky in the later rounds.  As the draft progressed, I was really hoping he would fall to us.  I think Ballard kind of missed this one.  He should have traded  up and got him if he sensed another team would take him.  Just thinking out loud.  The rumour is that Tennessee drafted him and that's why Ballard moved back.   It is going to hurt a lot if Simmons turns out to b a stud.  I really wanted him.

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Ballard has been great so far:

+Drafted Mack, Hines, Nelson, Leonard, and Hooker so far.

+Traded Dorsett for Brissett.

+Free Agency - signed Ebron and Houston.

+Hired Reich, even when he messed up by hiring McDaniels, he made up for it lmao and got a better hire.

 

-The bold were exceptional.

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On 10/10/2019 at 7:10 PM, Defjamz26 said:

That was a lot too read sheesh.

 

But I’ll respond by saying that no one is saying Ballard is a bad drafter, but there have been some misses, particularly early on. In 2017 Wilson and Basham. The 2nd and 3rd round picks respectively. Mack looks like a steal though.

 

2018 was phenomenal. His first 3 picks were all starters who played at a high level and two were All-Pro. However the jury is still out on Turray and Lewis who were 2nd rounders. Lewis doesn’t seem like he’ll ever be anything special when he’s healthy, but that’s just my opinion. 

 

2019 class is all rookies and so far we’ve seen little return on the first 3 picks (Rock, Banogu, And Campbell), but that’s to be expected to some degree. The production has surprisingly come from Okereke and Willis.

 

The biggest knock is the lack of attention to the interior defensive line. He’s drafted Stewart who is solid depth and Lewis who is often injured, undersized, And doesn’t look to be special.

I disgaree. Rock has played well, and often times he follows their best receiver. 

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12 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

I disagree, Lewis COULD be special. High motor, full speed player. 

I’ve literally seen zero from Lewis. At this point, he is teetering on bust. He is the tweener of too slow for DE and not big enough to be in the middle. Now, if we get a double teaming NT next to him that allows for more penetration and he doesn’t have a new injury every other day, maybe we can get something from him. I just have pretty much written Lewis out of the defense though. Maybe we get lucky and a solid DE or DT falls to us in the first in this next draft. 

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On 10/10/2019 at 7:10 PM, Defjamz26 said:

That was a lot too read sheesh.

 

But I’ll respond by saying that no one is saying Ballard is a bad drafter, but there have been some misses, particularly early on. In 2017 Wilson and Basham. The 2nd and 3rd round picks respectively. Mack looks like a steal though.

 

2018 was phenomenal. His first 3 picks were all starters who played at a high level and two were All-Pro. However the jury is still out on Turray and Lewis who were 2nd rounders. Lewis doesn’t seem like he’ll ever be anything special when he’s healthy, but that’s just my opinion. 

 

2019 class is all rookies and so far we’ve seen little return on the first 3 picks (Rock, Banogu, And Campbell), but that’s to be expected to some degree. The production has surprisingly come from Okereke and Willis.

 

The biggest knock is the lack of attention to the interior defensive line. He’s drafted Stewart who is solid depth and Lewis who is often injured, undersized, And doesn’t look to be special.

I’ll admit I am not Wilson’s biggest fan but I think it’s too early to call him a bust.  He might just be a late bloomer as he’s playing a lot this year.  

 

I think the bigger thing here is that his homerruns way out number his misses which is the reverse of what they had in Grigson.  All GMs have misses.  The thing that makes someone a good GM is to make sure you don’t have a string of misses.  It’s tell that even if you count Wilson as a miss that Ballard has almost as many misses in two as guys left on the roster that Grigson drafted, three.  

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On 10/11/2019 at 8:06 PM, Moosejawcolt said:

Honestly......I wanted Simmons.  I said before the draft that he would b our only chance to get a top 5 player later  in the draft because of injury.  This D needs an impactful DT.  They r hard to get unless u pick in the top 10 or get lucky in the later rounds.  As the draft progressed, I was really hoping he would fall to us.  I think Ballard kind of missed this one.  He should have traded  up and got him if he sensed another team would take him.  Just thinking out loud.  The rumour is that Tennessee drafted him and that's why Ballard moved back.   It is going to hurt a lot if Simmons turns out to b a stud.  I really wanted him.

 

 

I forgot about him.  For the most part, unless you are getting a franchise player, don’t trade up in the first round.  It requires too much capital and still is a 50-50 shot. Ballard has done a great job maximizing his picks and getting quality players.  DT is a major need but getting an all pro will be very hard and unless someone falls to us then we will have to develop a player(s)

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On 10/13/2019 at 1:24 AM, GoColts8818 said:

I’ll admit I am not Wilson’s biggest fan but I think it’s too early to call him a bust.  He might just be a late bloomer as he’s playing a lot this year.  

 

 

Again, we all need to realize Wilson is young. Younger than Rock Ya-Sin. Put that into perspective. 

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On 10/11/2019 at 4:08 PM, BigQungus said:

 

Ok... I'm gonna say it... after all these years I finally get to say it!!!

 

If you don't know, I have been reading this forum for a long time, but I couldn't join because the security check was glitching or something...

 

but anyways...

 

O LINEMEN ARE TAUGHT TO PANCAKE THEIR OPPONENTS SO THAT THEY DON'T GET UP AGAIN UNLESS THEY'RE THE LEAD BLOCKER IN RUNS LIKE IN THE PLAY AGAINST KC.

 

I'm not trying to be rude with the all caps, but I was just excited to finally say it after a long time.

 

There. I did it

And your point? 

 

Then the #6 pick should be used more to execute multiple blocks on multiple defenders more often than to pancake one defender who might be one 4th round draft pick.  

 

Anyway you look at it, its wasted capital.

 

If he pancakes Aaron Donald, I'm more likely to see the investment.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, DougDew said:

And your point? 

 

Then the #6 pick should be used more to execute multiple blocks on multiple defenders more often than to pancake one defender who might be one 4th round draft pick.  

 

Anyway you look at it, its wasted capital.

 

If he pancakes Aaron Donald, I'm more likely to see the investment.

 

 

Yeah,   the pancake block on Melvin Ingram wasn't impressive at all huh?

 

 

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On 10/11/2019 at 6:53 PM, indyagent17 said:

I disagree, Lewis COULD be special. High motor, full speed player. 

 

As a Buckeye fan, Lewis was over drafted. Even if they kept him at his original weight, around 260 with his athleticism being limited, he wasn't going to be long term solution on the outside. I don't know what Ballard and those guys were seeing, especially when they wanted to add weight to him and play him inside. Again, he's not really that athletic/agile at 260, putting ~20lbs on him just hindered him more. I wouldn't be surprised if they moved on from him next year.

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52 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Yeah,   the pancake block on Melvin Ingram wasn't impressive at all huh?

 

 

Sure it is. They all are.  Who said it wasn't impressive?  

 

I see how you patrol nonsense.  You make it up first.  Good job, Lieutenant Justice.

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