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Week 5 impressions: Brissett

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5 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Mahomes ankle definitely limited them in the 2nd half too.  But our pass rush was incredible.  The name the sack pack thread could be legitimate again.

Justin Houston won AFC Defensive Player of the week. How fitting considering is an all-time great Chief.

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13 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

 

I disagree with the idea that we lack weapons.  Mack, Hines, Wilkins are all weapons.  Ebron and Doyle too.  Cain has stretched the D.

 

As an NFL offense goes, that's really not much to hang your hat on.

 

Mack, Hines and Wilkins are weapons.  That's a good RB corps, although it could use 1 more big body.

 

Ebron and Doyle is a bogstandard TE corps.  Ebron is basically Dwayne Allen without quite the same absurdly good blocking ability.  Doyle is good but is more of a solid roleplayer than a true weapon.

 

The WR corps is an absolute mess for reasons that go beyond Brissett.  We're missing our WR2, our WR1 is probably still at least somewhat limited, and the depth behind them was shaky at the outset and is struggling to get on the same page as their QB.

 

The fact that a very average TE corps is such a feature of the receiving game is a massive indictment some of the guys we're pretending are WRs

 

Basically we have great RBs, adequate TEs and TY is the only reason the entire WR corps is a massive load of "meh."  Hard to really strut your stuff as a young QB when you only have 1 reliable WR and he's banged up

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3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Not to head in that direction, but aren't they basically the same guys who didn't give us much of a pass rush every other game?  Turay got some pressure at LAC, but their LT isn't very good and I don't think KCs Cameron Erving is either.

Against Oakland our pass rush was non-existent. Not being negative but that is fact. Did Carr even get touched?

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18 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yes, that ball release stat is huge, and we tried to make it a large departure from the Chud offense.

 

Speaking of JB, I think having a player like Sproles would illuminate some things.  JB probably will always need some help in opening up things downfield for him compared to Luck, and Hines just isn't that threat to get a big play from a pass near the LOS.  

 

I don't know if people realize how special Sproles was/is. It's a very lofty aspiration to have "a player like Sproles." That said, I've seen Sproles-like things from Hines in recent weeks, and I'm hoping to see his role continue to adjust to take advantage of his strengths.

 

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Against Oakland our pass rush was non-existent. Not being negative but that is fact. Did Carr even get touched?

 

He got a few high-fives from his teammates... 

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I thought we had consistent pressure in games 1 and 2 and then again here in 5.  In games 3 and 4 we essentially had no pass rush.  Strange to me how inconsistent.  

 

In any case I think we need an upgrade at interior DL moreso than DE.  Houston, Sheard, unfortunately no Turay but looking forward are good enough.  Would helf both DEs and LBs if DTs could command more consistent double teams.

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26 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't know if people realize how special Sproles was/is. It's a very lofty aspiration to have "a player like Sproles." That said, I've seen Sproles-like things from Hines in recent weeks,

Agreed about Sproles. 

 

Conceptually, I think a dynamic offense needs three different players, defined by where on the field they receive the ball.  You need the over the top threat who gets the ball 30 -40 yards downfield (TY, Harrison).  The threat from behind the LOS (Edge, Mack, and supposedly once upon a time Dammit Donald Brown).  And the guy who is a threat by getting the ball 5 yards beyond the LOS ( I say Tyreek Hill, and Darren Sproles).  The defense can't ever roll to cover one area, they must cover the whole field.

 

The Colts have never had that 5 yard LOS threat, and have relied more upon downfield chunk plays.  I think that is how JB is being judged (and he could improve on that).  I think Reich's offense needs that 5 yard LOS receiver much more than Chud's offense, and I think JB is better suited to running that than Luck, who was better at finding the downfield guys.  Its heresy to say, but Luck's ball placement to the receiver was never accurate enough to hit the player in stride so he could continue with momentum through the defense.  That's what I'm waiting for this offense to do, and to get that player.  In the mean time, we have to look for more downfield plays and JB is not suited for that as well as Luck was, IMO. 

 

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Hines is starting to show flashes. I think by the end of the season he will look pretty special. He led the team in pass catches last week I think. Just a matter of time he turns those ten yard gains into 30 or 40 or breaks one for a TD.

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2 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

It's because we don't know what JB will be like next year that we're even discussing possibly replacing JB in the draft.  Every year, in every draft you put guys on the roster to improve it.  I don't understand why the QB position would be an exception to that.  If we draft someone and he doesn't win the position, JB is still the QB.  Rodgers took over for Favre, Mahomes took over for Alex Smith, Brady over Bledsoe and so on and so forth. 

 

I'm not saying we're going to draft the next QB of the future next year.  Even if we did, he might need to hold a clip board his first couple years.  But absolutely no one disagrees that JB could stand to play at a higher level, whehter it's the group that says JB will improve with time or the group that doesn't make such an assumption and would use the draft to get better at the QB position in case JB isn't the guy that will lead this franchise for the next 10 years.  I don't see what the harm is in trying to get better at the most important position in football.  The better players we have, the more success we'll have, but that doesn't mean we can't be successful between now and then.

 

 Bull.
 You don't know what he will be like THIS YEAR.
  Give the guy more time before My Poster write's him off.
   Clearly he isn't getting the ball down the field in 14-20 yard chunks enough.
   We need Funchess, and Ebron playing better for sure. Rogers is not much, neither is Cain so far, and Campbell is way behind.
  Jacoby must get better, but any discussion already about drafting someone next  year is garbage. Lest we forget they gave Hoyer guaranteed $$ next year, and we have the best throwing QB in last years draft on our PS.
  Why don't you _____  let the subject BREATH till at least the last quarter of the season so you MIGHT actually KNOW something?  Thanks   :lecture:

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3 hours ago, stitches said:

 

From what I've seen this coming class 2020(unless some of the underclassmen stay in school) is a relatively good class. You have a high end prospect in Tua(and maybe Burrow if he keeps playing like he's been playing so far??), but it also has some depth with different flavors of QBs... thus different teams might like different QBs better...

 

You have the high potential, gunslinger with good pocket presence and great traits QB in Jordan Love, who is not ready and needs to clean up some things(he probably needs to sit for a year and learn) before he starts in the league.

 

How does he compare to Chad Kelly? how about floor/ceiling for each?

 

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You have the game manager on steroids in Fromm who is extremely smart and savvy, very accurate on short and intermediate throws, but lacks elite playmaking and arm strength. 

 

How does he compare to JB7?

 

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You have elite arm talent Herbert, who can make plays on the run but there are also questions about his leadership and ability to win big games.

 

Don't we need a leader at QB to do just that, win big games? 

 

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You have Eason who is OK, but not great at everything and has no pronounced strengths(besides having the prototypical size for a QB).

 

Jack of all trades, master of none?

 

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I have not watched much of Hurts and Fields this year. The little I've seen from Fields leaves me wanting more.  I would still take Lawrence if I had to make that pick now for the 2021 draft. 

 

Not only does performance change between now and the draft, but medical, psychological, and background info becomes part of the equation.  Then interviews and combine/pro days.  The scouts work is just the tip.

 

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A lot of it in this year's draft will be about what teams prefer in their QB. Before the season started there were rumors that Ballard and co. love Jordan Love. No idea if true, but traits-wise he's similar to Mahomes and very different to what Brissett is. Some GMs and coaches have obvious types when they are looking for a specific position(QB in this case), other GMs are OK drafting the talent building schemes/roster around him that fit him. We know Ballard has a type defensively, no idea in hell whether he has a type when it comes to QBs.

 

I'm sure Ballard will listen to Frank on the type of QB to best fit his system.

 

1 hour ago, stitches said:

 

If a team's offense is better with Brissett at QB than with Luck you have to seriously be thinking about 1. Changing the offense. and 2. Changing the coach.

 

Coaches would adjust it to the strengths of their player.  And the player has input to plays selected into place for each game plan.

 

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edit: BTW we are not running the same offense now that we were running last year. Reich knows his QB's strengths and weaknesses and adjusts the offense he runs to mask the deficiencies and exploit the strong sides of his team and QB(since the QB is the most important piece in any offense). 

 

Even before Luck retired, Reich mentioned he wanted to be a top 5 rushing team (and his QB was top 20).

 

As of the bye week, the Colts are in 5th in rushing.  And 4th in run to pass balance.

 

47.9 rush, 52.1 pass.

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2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

If scouts did such a great job evaluating QB you wouldn’t see so many go in the first round and fail. How did Mitch Trubinsky get drafted ahead of Mahomes. There are some bad scouts out there. How did Wilson fall to the third round.

 

Thats entirely different a topic to your original statement. Of course scouting isn’t 100%. But there are converse examples where good scouting lets you pick up guys in later rounds. 

 

Wilson is a bad example as he was knocked for his size. Scouts didn’t doubt his arm. By and large it’s still a true maxim that smaller than prototypical size QBs don’t fare so well, although that might slowly changing. Using an outlier isn’t a good example. 

 

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22 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Bull.
 You don't know what he will be like THIS YEAR.
  Give the guy more time before My Poster write's him off.
   Clearly he isn't getting the ball down the field in 14-20 yard chunks enough.
   We need Funchess, and Ebron playing better for sure. Rogers is not much, neither is Cain so far, and Campbell is way behind.
  Jacoby must get better, but any discussion already about drafting someone next  year is garbage. Lest we forget they gave Hoyer guaranteed $$ next year, and we have the best throwing QB in last years draft on our PS.
  Why don't you _____  let the subject BREATH till at least the last quarter of the season so you MIGHT actually KNOW something?  Thanks   :lecture:

No.

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52 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

 

I disagree with the idea that we lack weapons.  Mack, Hines, Wilkins are all weapons.  Ebron and Doyle too.  Cain has stretched the D.

 

It's probably from everything I've heard that there are open guys with all the protection and JB is bailing early and/or not seeing plays come open.  I think we have a lot of weapons.  You can't every have too much I guess, but I think the teams weakness are QB, interior D line, and LB in that order.  That is the order I would draft if good players were available.

 

I'm still high on Cain.  Campbell will always be a threat when he's on the field.

I disagree.  JB hasn't lost us a game, in its entirety, IMO, so I don't think QB should be the first position we draft.  Definitely agree about the interior D line, but we also need a STUD pass rusher as well.  I also like the idea of a stud TE than can block and catch consistently as well.

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41 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Hines is starting to show flashes. I think by the end of the season he will look pretty special. He led the team in pass catches last week I think. Just a matter of time he turns those ten yard gains into 30 or 40 or breaks one for a TD.

I really like Hines in space.  I also love how hard he runs when running down hill.  He won't push the pile, but he gets low to the ground and he'll dive for that first down.

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44 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

How does he com[are to Chad Kelly? how about floor/ceiling for each?

 

IMO Love is a better prospect than Kelly. Better playmaking out of structure, better arm strength, better pocket presence. Probably worse accuracy. Not sure about decision-making... decision-making and footwork are Love's worst aspects right now. This is IMO is why he would need to take a red-shirt year for a coaching staff to help him iron this thing out. 


 

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How does he compare to JB7?

 

 

 

IMO with coaching and experience Fromm can be a better version of JB7. He's a highly functioning game manager. I've been calling him game manager on steroids. In a similar way he's running a run heavy offense, he does all the checks at the LOS, changes protections, audibles, etc. His accuracy is better than Brissett's, he successfully makes full field reads(unlike Brissett), better anticipation thrower. Brissett has better arm-strength and better pocket presence and movement. Fromm is a bit statuesque in the pocket(my biggest worry with him). Fromm seems more aggressive than Brissett with his throws and he seems to never make any obvious mistakes. Fromm is the one I feel the most weird about from all of them, because on paper he lacks some of the things I absolutely want in our QB, but he's just SO DAMN GOOD in everything else. 

 

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Don't we need a leader at QB to do just that, win big games? 

That's the thing. I don't know if those are fair assessments. For example, the thing that they say about him is not that he's a bad kid or something, but rather that he's quiet. Some scouts have called him "soft" and "quirky, not really a leader of men.", I don't know what they mean by that, because it's not something I see on the tape. I don't know how to evaluate this and I'm not sure I trust those evaluations. About him losing the big games... to me it was preposterous how Oregon lost the Stanford game last year. He played pretty much a perfect game and they still found a way to blame the loss on him. If you want to see Herbert at his best just watch that game. He was amazing. Almost flawless. In the end his RB fumbled the ball while trying to run out the clock with the lead and he couldn't win the game in OT. And the critics still came out of the woodwork to say "yeah, he played well but he still lost the game in OT"... 

 

 

 

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Jack of all trades, master of none?

 

kind of yeah... I don't think I'm very high on Eason.


 

Quote

 

Not only does performance change between now and the draft, but medical, psychological, and background info becomes part of the equation.  Then interviews and combine/pro days.  The scouts work is just the tip.

 

I'm sure Ballard will listen to Frank on the type of QB to best fit his system.

 

Coaches would adjust it to the strengths of their player.  And the player has input to plays selected into place for each game plan.

 

 

Yeah... we don't really have access to a lot of the information Ballard and co will have access to. In some ways some of the most important information about the QB will be gained outside of their tape. So yeah... we can just explore what they are showing on-field.

 

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Even before Luck retired, Reich mentioned he wanted to be a top 5 rushing team (and his QB was top 20).

 

As of the bye week, the Colts are in 5th in rushing.  And 4th in run to pass balance.

 

47.9 rush, 52.1 pass.

 

Yeah, I don't think those last numbers are recipe for long term success. Or at least... the game-neutral numbers for rush and pass, by which we are 2nd highest rush team(frequency) on 1st down and 2nd and long(it might be a bit skewed because of the Chiefs game). We will see how those numbers develop by the end of the season. 

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21 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

I disagree.  JB hasn't lost us a game, in its entirety, IMO, so I don't think QB should be the first position we draft.  Definitely agree about the interior D line, but we also need a STUD pass rusher as well.  I also like the idea of a stud TE than can block and catch consistently as well.

Positional need based drafting is not a preferred way to build a roster.  It results in reaches and generally speaking, builds a weaker roster.  You take the best player available that takes into account, positional need.  To be sure, if what a player currently on your roster has or has not done factors into a draft prospects grade, you are doing it wrong.

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1 minute ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Positional need based drafting is not a preferred way to build a roster.  It results in reaches and generally speaking, builds a weaker roster.  You take the best player available that takes into account, positional need.  To be sure, if what a player currently on your roster has or has not done factors into a draft prospects grade, you are doing it wrong.

I agree with you.  I wasn't clear.  That's more of my wish list :D.

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Against Oakland our pass rush was non-existent. Not being negative but that is fact. Did Carr even get touched?

 

Denver couldn't get to him either. Vonn Miller was really vocal after their week one loss about not even getting close to Carr. It happens, but I think people underrating that OL.

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I don't know if people realize how special Sproles was/is. It's a very lofty aspiration to have "a player like Sproles." That said, I've seen Sproles-like things from Hines in recent weeks, and I'm hoping to see his role continue to adjust to take advantage of his strengths.

 

 

He got a few high-fives from his teammates... 

 

Agree on Sproles.  Kinda like saying, what we need as a pass rusher is a Lawrence Taylor type of player or at WR a Randy Moss or Jerry Rice type.

I certainly don’t think Sproles is on that level, but he did things no one else can do.

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39 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

I disagree.  JB hasn't lost us a game, in its entirety, IMO, so I don't think QB should be the first position we draft.  Definitely agree about the interior D line, but we also need a STUD pass rusher as well.  I also like the idea of a stud TE than can block and catch consistently as well.

 

There really aren’t TEs like that though.  Gronk was an incredibly well rounded TE.  Greta hands.  Great athleticism.  Great strength in blocking.  Great routes.  Off the top of my head I can’t think of anyone else who’s ever been like that,

.  gOAT IMo.

 

Cant have enough rush but those guys are extremely rare and almost never found out of top ten.  Mathis is one.

 

A better QB would make our skill guys look bettter IMO.

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1 hour ago, Imgrandojji said:

As an NFL offense goes, that's really not much to hang your hat on.

 

Mack, Hines and Wilkins are weapons.  That's a good RB corps, although it could use 1 more big body.

 

Ebron and Doyle is a bogstandard TE corps.  Ebron is basically Dwayne Allen without quite the same absurdly good blocking ability.  Doyle is good but is more of a solid roleplayer than a true weapon.

 

The WR corps is an absolute mess for reasons that go beyond Brissett.  We're missing our WR2, our WR1 is probably still at least somewhat limited, and the depth behind them was shaky at the outset and is struggling to get on the same page as their QB.

 

The fact that a very average TE corps is such a feature of the receiving game is a massive indictment some of the guys we're pretending are WRs

 

Basically we have great RBs, adequate TEs and TY is the only reason the entire WR corps is a massive load of "meh."  Hard to really strut your stuff as a young QB when you only have 1 reliable WR and he's banged up

 I think you under rate the TE corps.  Doyle is a great blocker and a good pass catcher.  Ebron is always open.  Cox developing. There aren’t many teams stronger IMO.

 

If you can find a dude to replace EE I’d be for it.  Frustrating dude.

I think the lack of production and low ypc is on JB.

20 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

I agree with you.  I wasn't clear.  That's more of my wish list :D.

 

Ditto

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17 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Denver couldn't get to him either. Vonn Miller was really vocal after their week one loss about not even getting close to Carr. It happens, but I think people underrating that OL.

Very much underrating that line

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Just now, Nickster said:

 I think you under rate the TE corps.  Doyle is a great blocker and a good pass catcher.  Ebron is always open.  Cox developing. There aren’t many teams stronger IMO.

 

If you can find a dude to replace EE I’d be for it.  Frustrating dude.

I think the lack of production and low ypc is on JB.

I just can't get my head around the drops.  Seems like such a correctable issue, but he just can't seem to get over the hump.  Last year, all the TD receptions sort of made him tolerable.  Take that out, and his tenure here is just Detroit 2.0.

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If anyone is interested there is some great conversation on the stampede blue podcast on if the colts should or should not take a QB.  They make some great points. Taking a QB doesn’t mean you take one to replace JB. Ira more about taking the best player available at the time you draft and if that is a QB you take the QB. Also talked about creating completion in camp. In a way that it could actually push JB to being a better QB.  It really will depend on how this offense progresses this season. They also talked about how Reich might be limiting it to one oe two reeds early in the season.

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/stampede-blue-for-indianapolis-colts-fans/id1260116854?i=1000452927346

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7 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I just can't get my head around the drops.  Seems like such a correctable issue, but he just can't seem to get over the hump.  Last year, all the TD receptions sort of made him tolerable.  Take that out, and his tenure here is just Detroit 2.0.

Oh I’m no Ebron fan, but the production we got from TE position group in the passing game was phenomenal last year even with Doyle only in 6 games.  On the other hand EE is very dangerous.  Coz and Doyle are great blockers.

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Ebron is wearing thin on me as well.  Definitely needs to start catching the football.

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20 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Oh I’m no Ebron fan, but the production we got from TE position group in the passing game was phenomenal last year even with Doyle only in 6 games.  On the other hand EE is very dangerous.  Coz and Doyle are great blockers.

 

Eric Ebron is like the boom or bust fantasy player who you don't know what you can get. Cox and Doyle are the steady high floor guys that will give you a better consistency, IMO. If Ebron is going to continue to be inconsistent, I think he becomes replaceable through the draft. I'd frankly dial up more passing plays for Cox and Doyle, to see how well we can do with Ebron on the field. I have a feeling we might be just fine. 

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It’s so weird with Ebron how he has trouble with easy catches and makes the hard ones look easy.

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22 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

If anyone is interested there is some great conversation on the stampede blue podcast on if the colts should or should not take a QB.  They make some great points. Taking a QB doesn’t mean you take one to replace JB. Ira more about taking the best player available at the time you draft and if that is a QB you take the QB. Also talked about creating completion in camp. In a way that it could actually push JB to being a better QB.  It really will depend on how this offense progresses this season. They also talked about how Reich might be limiting it to one oe two reeds early in the season.

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/stampede-blue-for-indianapolis-colts-fans/id1260116854?i=1000452927346

It's entirely possible the reason he limits JB's reads is due to his limitations as a passer. We will find out as the season progresses. The podcast hosts have it right, JB will have to improve that aspect to his game if we expect to be getting the most out of the position.

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8 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

It's entirely possible the reason he limits JB's reads is due to his limitations as a passer. We will find out as the season progresses. The podcast hosts have it right, JB will have to improve that aspect to his game if we expect to be getting the most out of the position.

 

I find it odd that people are knocking on drafting a QB, for among other reasons having to dumb down the offense, but are ok with the idea JB is only ready for one or two reads a play. If that’s true of course.  

 

He’s not a rookie and has been in the system long enough that it strikes me as being patently untrue or worrying as hell. 

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17 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

It's entirely possible the reason he limits JB's reads is due to his limitations as a passer. We will find out as the season progresses. The podcast hosts have it right, JB will have to improve that aspect to his game if we expect to be getting the most out of the position.

 

See that is red flag concerning to me.  OK. We are going 1 or 2 reads.  Why on Earth then would you stare down the receiver?  Makes no sense with half field reads.  This is the thing that makes me think JB has little chance to improve.  

 

If you are go half field, then look around.  He usually locks on and draws defenders to the play side like flies on a rib roast.  It’s hard to get open when the D shifts with the QBs eyes.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I find it odd that people are knocking on drafting a QB, for among other reasons having to dumb down the offense, but are ok with the idea JB is only ready for one or two reads a play. If that’s true of course.  

 

He’s not a rookie and has been in the system long enough that it strikes me as being patently untrue or worrying as hell. 

I am not knocking drafting a QB. I am just willing to wait until the end of the season to say he can’t improve. Especially with the only reliable WR being TY. I want to see how or if he improves and if getting DF helps and watching to see how the young WR develop. I trust Reich will be able to get him where he needs to be. By the end of the season we don’t improvement or we lose a bunch of games then I can go there. Right now I like how this team is playing like playoff team. This kind of team travels well on the road. Let’s be real the WR situation has been bad.

Edited by Chloe6124

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The good thing about the Ballard era Colts is that the QB doesn't need to throw 350 yards and multiple TD's to win every game. I don't care about stats as long as the Colts win. Brissett just needs to take care of the ball and make plays with his feet and arm. He's doing a heck of a job so far in 2019.

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29 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am not knocking drafting a QB. I am just willing to wait until the end of the season to say he can’t improve. Especially with the only reliable WR being TY. I want to see how or if he improves and if getting DF helps and watching to see how the young WR develop. I trust Reich will be able to get him where he needs to be. By the end of the season we don’t improvement or we lose a bunch of games then I can go there. Right now I like how this team is playing like playoff team. This kind of team travels well on the road. Let’s be real the WR situation has been bad.

I’m not sure the WR have been bad.  Maybe Brisett hasn’t made the play.  You cannot catch the ball from yourself.  The WR situation is better than last year.

 

what evidence suggests the WR are bad?

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11 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I’m not sure the WR have been bad.  Maybe Brisett hasn’t made the play.  You cannot catch the ball from yourself.  The WR situation is better than last year.

 

what evidence suggests the WR are bad?

You have your number 2 go down and your relying on two rookies. Yes it’s been bad. Then you lose Campbell for awhile. Nobody is afraid of pascal or Rogers going deep. Getting DF back should help a ton. It will also help open up TY more. It’s been bad. I doubt TY was completely healthy Sunday either.

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29 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

You have your number 2 go down and your relying on two rookies. Yes it’s been bad. Then you lose Campbell for awhile. Nobody is afraid of pascal or Rogers going deep. Getting DF back should help a ton. It will also help open up TY more. It’s been bad. I doubt TY was completely healthy Sundays.  either.

 

Well last year our #2 was Chester Rogers as far as production.  It was supposed to be Ryan Grant,, but it was Rogers.  This year Rogers doesn't even really play except to fair catch punts, so they are better than last year at least in the staff's eyes becasue last years #2 doesn't get any reps. 

 

So the rookies are evaluated better than last year's #2.  Pascal is definitely better than  he was last year.

 

I think what might be happening is that you are equating below average QB play with poor WR play, when the evidence suggests that the corps of receivers is better than last year since the 2nd best guy from last year doesn't play Chloe.  

 

TY missed to starts last year and was hobbled in a few others.

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11 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Well last year our #2 was Chester Rogers as far as production.  It was supposed to be Ryan Grant,, but it was Rogers.  This year Rogers doesn't even really play except to fair catch punts, so they are better than last year at least in the staff's eyes becasue last years #2 doesn't get any reps. 

 

So the rookies are evaluated better than last year's #2.  Pascal is definitely better than  he was last year.

 

I think what might be happening is that you are equating below average QB play with poor WR play, when the evidence suggests that the corps of receivers is better than last year since the 2nd best guy from last year doesn't play Chloe.  

 

TY missed to starts last year and was hobbled in a few others.

No that is not what I am doing. There is no doubt luck would probably make Cain and Campbell more productive. He was special and those kind of QB don’t grow on trees. All I am saying is they are rookies who were supposed to be getting limited snaps so they can develop. This WR core right now is no better then last year. I am looking at who we have and I don’t think we are better off then last year. 

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Not to mention Parris missed all of training camp. For a rookie that is bad. 

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2 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Denver couldn't get to him either. Vonn Miller was really vocal after their week one loss about not even getting close to Carr. It happens, but I think people underrating that OL.

And we cut Denzelle Good at RG in favor of Glow.  Just saying.

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7 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

No that is not what I am doing. There is no doubt luck would probably make Cain and Campbell more productive. He was special and those kind of QB don’t grow on trees. All I am saying is they are rookies who were supposed to be getting limited snaps so they can develop. This WR core right now is no better then last year. I am looking at who we have and I don’t think we are better off then last year. 

 

Do you think Rogers is worse than last year or do you think Reich is wrongly evaluating the talent then?  Can't be both ways really.  If Rogers isn't good enough this year, we are either better or the coaches are wrong or we're worse off.

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23 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Well last year our #2 was Chester Rogers as far as production.  It was supposed to be Ryan Grant,, but it was Rogers.  This year Rogers doesn't even really play except to fair catch punts, so they are better than last year at least in the staff's eyes becasue last years #2 doesn't get any reps. 

 

So the rookies are evaluated better than last year's #2.  Pascal is definitely better than  he was last year.

 

I think what might be happening is that you are equating below average QB play with poor WR play, when the evidence suggests that the corps of receivers is better than last year since the 2nd best guy from last year doesn't play Chloe.  

 

TY missed to starts last year and was hobbled in a few others.

Last year Inman stepped up too.  I don't think that Luck accounts for all of the difference.  Luck struggled too over the course of his career when TY was doubled and there were few other options. 

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