Week 4 impressions: Brissett

[aaron11]

3 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

No they werent, they were saying playing well isn't always about yards. 

 

Name an important metric and Jacoby is doing ok. Points, yards, TDs, turnovers, completion percentage, 3rd down, 4th down.......you dont blame the QB because you felt like Parris Campbell was open and Jacoby didnt hit him for a long TD on a random play at some point through out the game.

 

When the defense sucks, you blame the defense. 

 

When the special teams suck, you blame them.

 

When the receivers drop balls, you blame them.

 

You dont replace the QB so your Pro Bowl TE drops his passes instead of Jacoby Brissetts passes.

 

You dont replace the QB and expect HIM to win a shootout because your defense cant stop anybody.

 

You dont replace the QB and allow Ryan Kelly to get 2 blocking downfield penalties turning solid gains into losses. 

 

You dont expect Brissett to score points despite the kicking game letting him down.

 

It makes zero sense to blame Brissett for anything. Hes played well enough to get us to 4-0, while playing some solid teams. He has been keeping us in these games. The team has not played well outside of the OL, Marlon Mack, TY Hilton and Jacoby Brissett. 

 

We are 2-2 because of those guys. We would be 0-4 without them. The idea is to give them more support l, not throw in a dude who played well against a bunch of guys who are on the street right now and expect him to do what Jacoby couldnt.

 

hes not good at reading the field, there isnt a stat for that directly.  he stares down receivers far too often and doesnt see guys open down the field.  he hit a bunch of check downs to make his rating look good though i guess

[stitches]

5 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

 

Uhh yes they do.

 

There's no such thing as "garbage time" when you're within 1 possession.  We were within 1 possession when Brissett made the pick 6 and then he completed another TD to get us back within a score and give us one last fighting chance... sadly the D failed to produce the stop we needed to capitalize on that last chance.

No they don't. 

 

When we were within 1 possession he threw a pick six. He got like... 1/3 of his yards in what was essentially garbage time. But even this should not be a knock against him. Stop using the simplest and most shallow of numbers to justify whether he's playing well or not. Watch the throws he makes, the throws he doesn't make and the throws he misses. For this team it's more important what types of plays Brissett makes and what types he doesn't make over a large sample, than what he did in a specific game on a random September afternoon. Any NFL QB can have a bad game or a great game. 

[Imgrandojji]

2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

hes not good at reading the field, there isnt a stat for that directly.  he stares down receivers far too often and doesnt see guys open down the field 

[aaron11]

1 minute ago, Imgrandojji said:

this didnt add anything to the thread, i can post random pics if you want

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

So you want a different QB so we can beat teams 40-30. That just puts blinders on and doesn’t fix the real problem. We are never going to be QB centric anymore. We are going to be balanced team.

[BLUEx40]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

i said Jacoby was mediocre, i dont think thats ridiculous .  i hope for better than mediocre QB so im pretty critical of JB.  was tough on Luck after bad games too, he was terrible in KC and i didnt hold back

Than that just makes you sound like every other sky is falling guy. some times you have to look big picture. Instead of tearing down your guys down build them up im all for critiqueing a guy if he played bad but the unrelenting criticism you're putting on jacoby this morning is unfair and honesly makes you look like a troll

[Goatface Killah]

7 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

hes not good at reading the field, there isnt a stat for that directly.  he stares down receivers far too often and doesnt see guys open down the field.  he hit a bunch of check downs to make his rating look good though i guess

I disagree. He has been very accurate in his reads and is doing what the coach is asking if him.

 

The stats for that are directly reflected in the effectiveness of the offense. And they have moved the ball fine.

 

You dont know what his reads are. You couldnt possibly know. You dont have the Colts playbook. You dont know the game plan.

[OffensivelyPC]

18 minutes ago, stitches said:

What improvements did he make in this game? I thought this was quite a poor game and a step back from Brissett. He threw a horrible pick six, he was staring his receivers down. He threw multiple balls into double coverage, he had multiple bad accuracy throws. 

 

At the end of the day the team was not good enough on multiple levels and mainly defensively and the receivers did him no favors, but lets be honest with ourselves when we are evaluating Brissett. 

 

No, Brissett is not the only reason, or even the main reason, we lost this one, but lets stop quoting those numbers like they mean something about the way he's playing. Right now the most those numbers mean is that he's doing pretty well in the red zone. This is not something to take lightly and this is a great development to have from him, but on a lot of other aspects Brissett is NOT showing why we (or any other team) should be happy to have him penciled in to start long term.  

 

 

He's a guy that makes most of us think, yeah I mean he's not bad, he's not good, but if we were ever to win a super bowl iwth him at the helm, we'd have to be pretty stacked everywhere else.  We don't have the receivers for that, especially after the injury bug. 

 

We also don't have the defense for that.  We're having to scheme QB pressures and our coverages are pretty vanilla, which isn't so bad as long as you have pressure up front and coverage that doesn't break in the back.  But I don't think we have either of those things right now.

[aaron11]

Just now, BLUEx40 said:

Than that just makes you sound like every other sky is falling guy. some times you have to look big picture. Instead of tearing down your guys down build them up im all for critiqueing a guy if he played bad but the unrelenting criticism you're putting on jacoby this morning is unfair and honesly makes you look like a troll

 i said long ago he isnt the main thing i would blame for the loss but he wasnt good either, and its more than fair to say that

[Imgrandojji]

11 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

i said Jacoby was mediocre, i dont think thats ridiculous .  

I don't think it's ridiculous, I think it's completely unsupported and based on nothing but your own opinion.  I mean if you want to ride the wave of your own feelings, you do you, I'm not going to call it ridiculous, I'm just gonna call it out.

[aaron11]

1 minute ago, GoatBeard said:

You dont know what his reads are. You couldnt possibly know. You dont have the Colts playbook. You dont know the game plan.

 if the team was winning because JB was putting up big numbers you would have a point.  thats only been true once this year.  hes efficient but i dont believe he will do enough to win many games or take the team far

[Fisticuffs111]

9 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

So you want a different QB so we can beat teams 40-30. That just puts blinders on and doesn’t fix the real problem. We are never going to be QB centric anymore. We are going to be balanced team.

Which we aren't right now. This season has so far proven that our team as a whole is a long way from competing without that elite presence at QB. Which, nothing can be done about that right now...I only bring it up because these "Impressions" threads had sort of been the breeding ground for the idea that we were well on our way to being that kind of team.

[stitches]

8 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

The problem with this is you can’t ignore the circumstances he had yesterday. I am not sure a elite QB being down 2 WR and recovers dropping balls would of had much success yesterday. 

I don't care about this game or any other specific game! This year is a year for evaluation for me. I'm trying to figure out for myself whether I will be OK with Ballard and co going forward with Brissett if a QB like Fromm or Herbert or Love or Burrow or Easen is there for us to pick in the draft...

 

You can win pretty much any game if your defense is good enough or if your offensive skill players make enough plays...  For me the QB position is the most important by a huge margin for any team simply because he touches the ball on every single play and he influence every single play on one side of the ball, and I'm trying to isolate Brissett's performance regardless of what's around him and how others are playing because we still will need him to be good when the rest of the team performs well too. Yes, he probably played good enough to win against a horrible Oakland team at home if the rest of the team played well enough. This is NOT the question I'm after. The question should be is he playing well enough for us to win in January? Because there you won't be meeting Oakland. You will be meeting the Patriots and the Chiefs... and whoever the best team in the NFC turns out to be... 

 

 

[aaron11]

Just now, Imgrandojji said:

I don't think it's ridiculous, I think it's completely unsupported and based on nothing but your own opinion.  I mean if you want to ride the wave of your own feelings, you do you, I'm not going to call it ridiculous, I'm just gonna call it out.

 

you are just going by feelings too.  get back to me when we are beating good teams because of Jacoby if that ever happens .  the Qb rating stat doesnt guarantee that hes good, you can throw check doesn all day and lose, but still have a high rating.  

[BLUEx40]

2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 i said long ago he isnt the main thing i would blame for the loss but he wasnt good either, and its more than fair to say that

Saying hes mediocre at best and thinking a unproven rookie could do better. and one week before the season starts and luck retires that why i see it as unfair luck lost 4 in a row and won freaking comeback player of the year give jacoby the same time learn 

[Myles]

6 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 if the team was winning because JB was putting up big numbers you would have a point.  

Leads the league in TD's.   

[Goatface Killah]

List of guys who have thrown for 40 TD passes in the history of the NFL......

 

Manning

Marino

Brady

Brees

Warner

Mahommes

Rodgers

Luck

Stafford

 

Brissett is on pace to join that group. 

 

I am far more convinced today that he is our QB than I was at the start of the season.

 

 

 

[Imgrandojji]

4 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 i said long ago he isnt the main thing i would blame for the loss but he wasnt good either, and its more than fair to say that

In my opinion he had a better game against Oakland, as a pure evaluation of his individual ability, than he did against Atlanta.

 

Yes, even with the pick 6 factored in.

 

The running game combined for less than 50 yards and that's even with Brissett's own rushes.  This is the first game where Brissett WAS the offense.  Reich has preferred not to put that pressure on him.  He had no choice last Sunday.  Despite not having good weapons at WR he really only made the 1 big mistake and otherwise managed to use what he had to work with to bring the team back into the game.

 

Personally I think the fact that Brissett can do that sort of thing even without a lot of help is a huge step in his evaluation.  Even though he wasn't perfect, I saw strong growth in his ability to execute the offense when other parts aren't working.  This was something we went into the season thinking he was incapable of.  Instead, we were a couple mistakes away from pulling that game out despite the horrible start.

 

I don't know what you guys saw in that game, but I saw some personal growth from #7.  2017 Jacoby would not have been able to make it close.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Like I said it a good thing we don’t have luck and putting up 40 points. Organization won’t be able to ignore this defense because we were winning. In the long run this should make us a better team. I don’t want the defense ignored. 

[Imgrandojji]

3 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 

you are just going by feelings too.  \

Nope. I'm going by feelings mixed with stats.

 

You're going by feelings mixed with "I saw this one play."

Guess which argument has better supporting evidence.

[stitches]

1 minute ago, OffensivelyPC said:

He's a guy that makes most of us think, yeah I mean he's not bad, he's not good, but if we were ever to win a super bowl iwth him at the helm, we'd have to be pretty stacked everywhere else.  We don't have the receivers for that, especially after the injury bug. 

 

We also don't have the defense for that.  We're having to scheme QB pressures and our coverages are pretty vanilla, which isn't so bad as long as you have pressure up front and coverage that doesn't break in the back.  But I don't think we have either of those things right now.

Absolutely. This is my biggest fear. I think people leave with the wrong impression of me regarding Brissett. My worry with Brissett is not that he will be horrible. He probably won't be, especially with a good OLine and good playcaller in Reich. My fear is that he will be mediocre(what I feel he's been so far)... that he will be just good enough for us to waste several seasons trying to compete with him and be thoroughly overmatched whenever we need high end QB performance in the playoffs. 

 

Our roster is nowhere near good enough to carry a QB like Brissett to post-season wins IMO. 

[Fisticuffs111]

Rewatched the game this morning. One thing stuck out with me; there were multiple instances of Brissett throwing to receivers late (throwing heaters to get them there) and putting them in really dangerous situations. We're probably lucky more guys didn't get hurt.

 

[aaron11]

1 minute ago, Imgrandojji said:

Nope. I'm going by feelings mixed with stats.

 

You're going by feelings mixed with "I saw this one play."

Guess which argument has better supporting evidence.

im going by his whole body of work.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

Absolutely. This is my biggest fear. I think people leave with the wrong impression of me regarding Brissett. My worry with Brissett is not that he will be horrible. He probably won't be, especially with a good OLine and good playcaller in Reich. My fear is that he will be mediocre(what I feel he's been so far)... that he will be just good enough for us to waste several seasons trying to compete with him and be thoroughly overmatched whenever we need high end QB performance in the playoffs. 

 

Our roster is nowhere near good enough to carry a QB like Brissett to post-season wins IMO. 

How did luck do against KC lol.

[Myles]

To me, the question is:

Is Jacoby the reason for the losses?    The answer is NO.  He's played well enough to win all 4 games.    Adam cost us the first loss and the defense and Ebron cost us the second loss.  Brissett won't be a top 5 QB in the league, I think we can all agree with that.   However, he is top 15 and has the numbers of a top 10 QB.   He is doing just fine, just not when compared to what Manning and Luck could bring to the table.     

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

How many SB with Luck and manning did we get? Lol

[aaron11]

5 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

How did luck do against KC lol.

why must you always do that?  now i can ask what signature wins does jacoby have?  who has he ever beaten?  

 

20+ starts and hasnt beaten anyone with a wining record.  luck and manning took bad teams to the playoffs more than once 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

To me, the question is:

Is Jacoby the reason for the losses?    The answer is NO.  He's played well enough to win all 4 games.    Adam cost us the first loss and the defense and Ebron cost us the second loss.  Brissett won't be a top 5 QB in the league, I think we can all agree with that.   However, he is top 15 and has the numbers of a top 10 QB.   He is doing just fine, just not when compared to what Manning and Luck could bring to the table.     

Give Cain and Campbell time to develop and he will be fine.

[stitches]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

How did luck do against KC lol.

Not well last year... he did OK the previous time. This is the thing. You cannot seriously put forward this type of argument and expect me not to roll my eyes at it. Both me and you know that Luck gave us a chance to win most any game. This doesn't mean he will win every single game or he will be great in every single game... it just mean that the chance of him putting up a great game is much better than the chance Brissett gives you. 

[shasta519]

3 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

you mean everyone coming to his aid to act like nothing was his fault and it's the team that is terrible?? I swear every week I hear the same "Luck has done that too" crap and it's getting annoying. JB isnt Luck and NEVER will be the faster these clowns realize this the better. these JB threads become unbearable.

 

Yes...lots of spin going on.

[BLUEx40]

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

Absolutely. This is my biggest fear. I think people leave with the wrong impression of me regarding Brissett. My worry with Brissett is not that he will be horrible. He probably won't be, especially with a good OLine and good playcaller in Reich. My fear is that he will be mediocre(what I feel he's been so far)... that he will be just good enough for us to waste several seasons trying to compete with him and be thoroughly overmatched whenever we need high end QB performance in the playoffs. 

 

Our roster is nowhere near good enough to carry a QB like Brissett to post-season wins IMO. 

I just think it will take till the end of season he got thrown into a really crappy situation we have to let him have some growing pains like luck did last year imo i truly think he can find his groove

[stitches]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

How many SB with Luck and manning did we get? Lol

What kind of a horrific argument is that? Are you seriously putting forward the argument that you would rather have Brissett than Manning and Luck because they only gave you 1 SB? 

[Imgrandojji]

12 minutes ago, stitches said:

My fear is... that he will be just good enough for us to waste several seasons trying to compete with him and be thoroughly overmatched whenever we need high end QB performance in the playoffs. 

 

 

My fear is that this fanbase isn't prepared to understand how to deal with a developing quarterback and assign teams like "mediocre" to a guy who's still learning on the job.

 

Cross the Superbow;-contending bridge when we come to it.

 

We are nowhere near that bridge right now. 

 

Having an above average QB, which all the stats tell me JB7 is, holding down the QB position while the rest of the contending core hardens and matures is not a bad thing.  And never be afraid to leave yourself open for pleasant surprises.

 

Brissett is already better than a lot of the guys people drafted or traded for thinking they would propel them into contention.  He's not in the Brady-Rodgers-Manning tier of QB play, at least not yet, but the opportunity to secure that guy doesn't come along every year and he'll do until we find one again.   

 

Which could take until long after Brissett's playing career is over, I don't think everyone realizes just how incredibly lucky we were to get 2 generational talents back to back like that.  They don't grow on trees.

[aaron11]

Just now, stitches said:

What kind of a horrific argument is that? Are you seriously putting forward the argument that you would rather have Brissett than Manning and Luck because they only gave you 1 SB? 

i think she really would rather have Jacoby over Luck, one of the reasons i quote her so much 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, stitches said:

What kind of a horrific argument is that? Are you seriously putting forward the argument that you would rather have Brissett than Manning and Luck because they only gave you 1 SB? 

Nope.But everyone complaining about a elite QB that didn’t win us many SB.

[stitches]

1 minute ago, BLUEx40 said:

I just think it will take till the end of season he got thrown into a really crappy situation we have to let him have some growing pains like luck did last year imo i truly think he can find his groove

I'm OK with him getting the full season. In fact I demand he gets the full season. I'm not advocating for Chad Kelly or anything else. I want him to get the full season, I want Reich to challenge him and I want to see what he can do. He can still win me over. If you asked last year at the same time I might have said that Luck's arm was shot and h did enough by the end of the year to convince me he's back. I'm by no means sold one way or another on Brissett although so far he's meeting my expectations almost perfectly. 

[aaron11]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

Nope.But everyone complaining about a elite QB that didn’t win us many SB.

and we will win zero with Brissett

[OffensivelyPC]

16 minutes ago, stitches said:

Absolutely. This is my biggest fear. I think people leave with the wrong impression of me regarding Brissett. My worry with Brissett is not that he will be horrible. He probably won't be, especially with a good OLine and good playcaller in Reich. My fear is that he will be mediocre(what I feel he's been so far)... that he will be just good enough for us to waste several seasons trying to compete with him and be thoroughly overmatched whenever we need high end QB performance in the playoffs. 

 

Our roster is nowhere near good enough to carry a QB like Brissett to post-season wins IMO. 

Nope, we're not.  Too many are stuck in the knee jerk and while Brissett can prove either side that he can play at an elite level or at Mark Sanchez level on any given week, it seems the vast majority of the time will be somewhere directly in the middle.  That's what it was like in 2017 and it's shaping to be that way now.  We're just winning games this year because the team is dramatically different from what it was in 2017 - for the better even.

 

But like you, I'm concerned about beyond 2019 and concern myself more with the question of, "what's the body of his performance between the extremes?"  So far, I don't see a guy that can carry a team on his back except occasionally so and I'm still waiting for that clutch comeback win (not that it's a prerequisite, but if you never see it then...).  I also don't think he's a total liability either.  That just screams of something close to Joe Flacco and Eli Manning, but without the postseason heroics (or regular season when it comes to Brissett).  
 

[Imgrandojji]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

I'm OK with him getting the full season. In fact I demand he gets the full season. I'm not advocating for Chad Kelly or anything else. I want him to get the full season, I want Reich to challenge him and I want to see what he can do. He can still win me over. If you asked last year at the same time I might have said that Luck's arm was shot and h did enough by the end of the year to convince me he's back. I'm by no means sold one way or another on Brissett although so far he's meeting my expectations almost perfectly. 

That's fair.  I just don't like it when people close their minds so soon.  Especially on a guy who is showing some pretty steady progress so far (even with the hiccup last night)

[BLUEx40]

2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

and we will win zero with Brissett

Com on man