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BProland85

Time to abandon zone coverage?

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2 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

To be fair it’s a fair expectation when they were a top 10 d last year in many metrics, with more talent added this year.

We played some pretty bad offenses last year which could of inflated those metrics. We did well against Houston and Dallas but we got toasted by Eli, Brady, Carr, and Mahomes

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16 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

Zone is what you play when you don't have the talent for man

This is so far away from reality that it's not even funny.

Just now, runthepost said:

We played some pretty bad offenses last year which could of inflated those metrics. We did well against Houston and Dallas but we got toasted by Eli, Brady, Carr, and Mahomes

Not could have... did.  A few posters like @Superman and myself mentioned that last year and even this off season but few people listened.

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16 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

Zone is what you play when you don't have the talent for man

 

the best teams use both depending on situation.  you dont typically want man coverage on crossing routes or bunch formations, though not every team will switch on the fly.  some defenses will switch before the snap, some during the play and some not at all

 

you also tend to get more picks playing zones too

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2 hours ago, runthepost said:

We played some pretty bad offenses last year which could of inflated those metrics. We did well against Houston and Dallas but we got toasted by Eli, Brady, Carr, and Mahomes

Very true, but you an only play what's in front of you.

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On 9/25/2019 at 8:33 PM, Trace Pyott said:

I’m probably wrong here but isn’t a 4-3 usually a zone defense?  Is there a difference between a cover 2 and a 4-3?  I’m just asking because I’m wondering if we could stick with the 4/3 and still plAy man. Sorry if this is a newbie question. My defensive knowledge is limited to say the least. 

 

So when you speak 3-4 and 4-3 you are talking about front alignment. Or in other words how the defensive line and linebackers sit. 

 

When we talk cover 2/man/zone/cover 3 we are talking defensive back coverages and how they are approaching the receivers.  Zone consists of playing areas with "zone" responsibilities for both the corners and safeties/linebackers while man is more of a one vs one scenario and the safety plays a coverage top. 

 

It is definitely plausible to mix and match these concepts and is part of what Indy is trying to do in order to become a higher tier defense.  When you can disguise coverages it makes it hard for the QB to get a pre-snap read which usually leads to turnovers and sacks.

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On 9/25/2019 at 11:53 AM, stitches said:

Do you have any idea why we were switching to zone on every 3d and long vs Atlanta? I can't figure out the rationale here. And Atlanta had something like 100% conversion % on those. 

Julio Jones had a field day against the Colts. He should have sent them a Thank You note.

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57 minutes ago, King Colt said:

Julio Jones had a field day against the Colts. He should have sent them a Thank You note.

He was going to have field day regardless what we did. Matt Ryan is the only one that can shut down Julio lmao

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The key thing is our middle linebackers you just start the screen passes right in front of the quarterback we're giving too much space on screen passes and short passes over the middle. We fix that we're in a lot better shape

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On 9/25/2019 at 6:33 PM, Trace Pyott said:

I’m probably wrong here but isn’t a 4-3 usually a zone defense?  Is there a difference between a cover 2 and a 4-3?  I’m just asking because I’m wondering if we could stick with the 4/3 and still plAy man. Sorry if this is a newbie question. My defensive knowledge is limited to say the least. 

 

Yeah, you can play zone or man whether you're a 3-4 or a 4-3 defense. These are all really overly simplistic labels that don't adequately describe what a team is actually doing on defense.

 

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we honestly have guys who play press man very well in Desir/Wilson/Rock/Moore

Granted only Moore plays Zone great compared to the others..least from what i’ve seen Rock is usually always contesting Win/Lose..Wilson i swear he’s always in Great coverage and either he gets beat (not looking for the ball) or there’s a false penalty someone has made up 

 

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On 9/26/2019 at 7:01 AM, SteelCityColt said:

Very true, but you an only play what's in front of you.

 

Personally, I never intended to dog out the Colts defense. I was just trying to counter the often repeated statement that we were a top ten defense last year, because I felt like if you adjusted for opponent strength, it would be obvious that the defense wasn't as impressive as people were saying. This defense still has work to do, and I'm hopeful that the braintrust will get it where it needs to be, but I still think we're missing a couple pieces, and depending a lot on inexperienced young guys who will make mistakes. Especially against good QBs. 

 

Thankfully, we survived Matt Ryan and Julio. We'll miss Ben Roethlisberger, we probably won't get Brees at full strength, and the Panthers have an interesting situation as well. Foles won't play in the first Jags game, and we'll see about the second -- although "G. MINSCHEW" is looking dangerous, but the bud will probably off that rose within a few weeks. So while the opposing QB schedule looked like a murderer's row when the schedule came out, it's been dramatically lightened just three weeks into the season.

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On 9/25/2019 at 9:33 PM, Trace Pyott said:

I’m probably wrong here but isn’t a 4-3 usually a zone defense?  

 

It's an alignment, not a cover scheme.

 

Quote

Is there a difference between a cover 2 and a 4-3?  

 

As above. Cover scheme vs. an alignment.

 

Quote

I’m just asking because I’m wondering if we could stick with the 4/3 and still plAy man.

 

Sure. Either man or zone. You can also play a hybrid, both man and zone at the same time (IE: CB's play man. LB's drop into their zones)

 

Quote

Sorry if this is a newbie question. My defensive knowledge is limited to say the least. 

 

NP

 

On 9/26/2019 at 9:23 AM, aaron11 said:

 

the best teams use both depending on situation.  you dont typically want man coverage on crossing routes or bunch formations, though not every team will switch on the fly.  some defenses will switch before the snap, some during the play and some not at all

 

you also tend to get more picks playing zones too

 

Cover two has become a 'show' alignment as well as being run as a base defense. Teams sometimes 'Show' it pre-snap, then roll into a different coverage at the snap of the ball in an attempt to disguise the defensive scheme. It's an attempt to cause confusion to either the QB, or his receiver and cause a 'miscommunication' and possibly cause an incompletion or even an interception.

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"Abandon"???

You're aware of the definition of the word right?

 

a·ban·don

/əˈbandən/

verb

1.

cease to support or look after (someone); desert.

"her natural mother had abandoned her at an early age"

Similar:

desert

leave

leave high and dry

turn one's back on

cast aside

break (up) with

jilt

strand

leave stranded

leave in the lurch

throw over

run/walk out on

dump

ditch

give someone the push

give someone the big E

bin off

forsake

Opposite:

stick by

2.

give up completely (a course of action, a practice, or a way of thinking).

"he had clearly abandoned all pretense of trying to succeed"

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On 9/25/2019 at 10:56 AM, krunk said:

I think the D will be fine.   We were having a similar conversation last year after the 1st Jax game and then the D tightened up and Eberflus made the necessary changes to put things in our favor. I expect he'll do that again. 

The problem is that we r playing much better  quarterbacks this year.  

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On 9/25/2019 at 11:44 AM, jameszeigler834 said:

Zone coverage is what I have named the prevent me from winning defense zone doesn't work period.

You do know all teams play more zone than man coverage, last season the Chiefs lead the lead running it 45% of their snaps 

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On 9/26/2019 at 9:11 AM, Coffeedrinker said:

This is so far away from reality that it's not even funny.

Not could have... did.  A few posters like @Superman and myself mentioned that last year and even this off season but few people listened.

I was and am there too...... cupcake schedule  and QBs we played  last yr inflated this D to top 10.  Most on here are just homers and think they can pull this off yr in and out and be a top 5 ....  

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On 9/26/2019 at 10:01 AM, SteelCityColt said:

Very true, but you an only play what's in front of you.

dosent make us a top 10 D .    Far from it .   

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15 hours ago, ty4atd said:

You do know all teams play more zone than man coverage, last season the Chiefs lead the lead running it 45% of their snaps 

Ya and their defense was trash too wasn't it.

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Zone coverage with no pass rush is ludicrous. You would think that if the Colts are getting no rush, they would be effective against the run. Think again. 

This is a bad defense.

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On 9/25/2019 at 5:02 PM, BProland85 said:

It seems like when this defense has gone man coverage, they have faired much better against the quality passing teams. Plus we have corners who do well in man coverage such as Quincy Wilson, Rock Ya-Sin, and Pierre Desir. Zone coverage simply allows for too much soft coverage underneath in my opinion. Matt Ryan simply picked us apart too much in the 2nd half last game. I think he was something like 23 of 24. 

 

On a side note we really need Hooker to come back soon to help prevent big plays from opposing offenses. I could see Ballard drafting a talented FS prospect next year if Hooker continues to have health struggles. Someone like JR Reed from Georgia in the 3rd would be nice.

 

I hate zone voverage. It allowed big plays for Falcons last week in second half, Chucky hasn't done anything brilliant just realized (learned frmo Falcons) how to destroy our zone D.  

On a side note we missed Hooker and Leonard very much, there was 0 pressure on Carr. 

 

I'sd like to see a hard hitting nasty D. 

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