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Parris Campbell (or lack thereof)


SouthernIndianaNDFan

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17 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

With as good as our TE are a lack of WR talent is easier to overcome.  TE always create mismatches.  

 TEs are especially good when the opposing D stacks the box, because that usually means that you've got a TE lined up against a DB.  That's a physical mismatch a good OC can exploit all day.

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19 hours ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

They haven't increased, they actually dropped from 29% to 25% going into Week 2. DK Metcalf is around 70%, McLaurin around 60%, Mecole Hardman over 50%. Parris should be where those guys are, especially with Funchess out. 

 

 Says you. haha! 
bla bla bla bla

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1 hour ago, Ne-Ca-Higher said:

Ohio State fans know that receivers don't get on the field if they don't block well.  And that's AFTER they've proven themselves on special teams.  Watch how many starters the Buckeyes use on special teams.

Blocking college players is a far cry from blocking NFL players.     He obviously has more to learn or he would be on the field more

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To be clear, the OP wasn't a "give me instant gratification now" type of post. He wasn't stating that he thought Campbell wasn't good. Of course, it's way too early to judge one way or another.

 

So many have missed the point of the thread, which is --Compared to other rookie receivers, why is Campbell being utilized much less?

 

He has 5 catches for 35 yards and 1 TD.

 

Compared to other rookies:

 

Marquise Brown - 14 catches for 282 yards and 1 TD (Missed preseason with Lis Franc injury)

Terry McLauren - 16 catches for 257 yards and 3 TDs.

DK Metcalf - 9 catches for 217 yards and 1 TD (missed preseason due to knee injury)

Mecole Hardeman - 6 catches for 158 yards and 2 TDs

Deebo Samuel - 11 catches for 147 yards and 1TD (missed preseason time with hip injury)

AJ Brown - 7 catches for 129 yards and 0 TD (missed preseason due to leg injury)

Hunter Renfrow - 9 catches 71 yards, OTD

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I think the main reason is that Brissett is really spreading the ball around. We haven't even had a 100 yard receiver in a game yet. Look at how he's been spreading the ball around since Funchess has been out:

 

@ Titans

 

T.Y. Hilton: 4 catches for 43 yards and 1 TD

 

Eric Ebron: 3 catches for 25 yards and 1 TD

 

Chester Rodgers: 3 catches for 24 yards

 

Jack Doyle: 2 catches for 21 yards

 

Marlon Mack: 2 catches for 12 yards

 

Parris Campbell: 1 catch for 12 yards and 1 TD

 

Nyheim Hines: 1 catch for 5 yards

 

Jordan Wilkins: 1 catch for 4 yards

 

 

 

vs Falcons

 

T.Y. Hilton: 8 catches for 65 yards and 1 TD

 

Zach Pascal: 2 catches for 53 yards and 1 TD

 

Eric Ebron: 3 catches for 47 yards

 

Jack Doyle: 4 catches for 46 yards

 

Nyheim Hines: 3 catches for 26 yards

 

Mo Alie-Cox: 2 catches for 25 yards

 

Parris Campbell: 3 catches for 24 yards

 

Marlon Mack: 2 catches for 14 yards

 

Deon Cain: 1 catch for 10 yards

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2 hours ago, BigQungus said:

I think the main reason is that Brissett is really spreading the ball around. We haven't even had a 100 yard receiver in a game yet. Look at how he's been spreading the ball around since Funchess has been out:

 

@ Titans

 

T.Y. Hilton: 4 catches for 43 yards and 1 TD

 

Eric Ebron: 3 catches for 25 yards and 1 TD

 

Chester Rodgers: 3 catches for 24 yards

 

Jack Doyle: 2 catches for 21 yards

 

Marlon Mack: 2 catches for 12 yards

 

Parris Campbell: 1 catch for 12 yards and 1 TD

 

Nyheim Hines: 1 catch for 5 yards

 

Jordan Wilkins: 1 catch for 4 yards

 

 

 

vs Falcons

 

T.Y. Hilton: 8 catches for 65 yards and 1 TD

 

Zach Pascal: 2 catches for 53 yards and 1 TD

 

Eric Ebron: 3 catches for 47 yards

 

Jack Doyle: 4 catches for 46 yards

 

Nyheim Hines: 3 catches for 26 yards

 

Mo Alie-Cox: 2 catches for 25 yards

 

Parris Campbell: 3 catches for 24 yards

 

Marlon Mack: 2 catches for 14 yards

 

Deon Cain: 1 catch for 10 yards

 

While I agree he's spreading it around, his targets for TY (25) is more than twice of anyone else. He's also favoring TE and RB in general over WRs outside of TY. Classic conservative dink and dunk.

 

I think with TY's health, we're going to see a lot more of Cain this week, and likely a lot more of Campbell too. Oakland is better vs the run than pass, and I think this is a safe/good home opportunity to push the newbie WRs. What I'd like to see more than anything else, is for JB to get an opportunity to work on his long ball which will help open up the run.

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

While I agree he's spreading it around, his targets for TY (25) is more than twice of anyone else. He's also favoring TE and RB in general over WRs outside of TY. Classic conservative dink and dunk.

 

I think with TY's health, we're going to see a lot more of Cain this week, and likely a lot more of Campbell too. Oakland is better vs the run than pass, and I think this is a safe/good home opportunity to push the newbie WRs. What I'd like to see more than anything else, is for JB to get an opportunity to work on his long ball which will help open up the run.

Ate you forgetting luck favored TE also. They create so many mismatches. When you have ones as good as we have you use them. Right now TY is his security blanket until he develops chemistry with the other two and DF gets back.

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On 9/23/2019 at 6:47 PM, EastStreet said:

Huh? Cain has been open, sometimes by a bunch. Vs ATL, two of his targets were bad throws by JB (both back shoulder on the left sideline). I think the two misses were simply lack of chemistry, but JB had another bad back shoulder throw to another WR (can't remember who it was, but the announcers even talked about it).

 

Not trying to beat up on JB, as he was fantastic except for those couple of tosses. But saying Cain hasn't been open is incorrect. 

Two things, on the two misses, Cain was not wide open, he was covered pretty well.  Nor do I think they were intentional back shoulder throws, JB just under threw him.

 

I think you got it right with chemistry, either Cain and JB are not seeing things the same, JB does not have a good feel for Cain's speed or Cain is running the routes incorrectly.  I'm not sure which.  But I do know after rewatching the last two games that Cain has NOT been wide open several times.  

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12 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Two things, on the two misses, Cain was not wide open, he was covered pretty well.  Nor do I think they were intentional back shoulder throws, JB just under threw him.

 

I think you got it right with chemistry, either Cain and JB are not seeing things the same, JB does not have a good feel for Cain's speed or Cain is running the routes incorrectly.  I'm not sure which.  But I do know after rewatching the last two games that Cain has NOT been wide open several times.  

Siriani mentioned Cain has to work through making mistakes. So I think not running correct routes could be part of the issue. They will get it eventually. Cain mentioned they  have been working on the side in practice. Campbell I think is coming along just fine and I think he will break out soon. He hasn’t been asked to be the number one receiver like terry in WA or some of the other rookie WR.  

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20 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Two things, on the two misses, Cain was not wide open, he was covered pretty well.  Nor do I think they were intentional back shoulder throws, JB just under threw him.

 

I think you got it right with chemistry, either Cain and JB are not seeing things the same, JB does not have a good feel for Cain's speed or Cain is running the routes incorrectly.  I'm not sure which.  But I do know after rewatching the last two games that Cain has NOT been wide open several times.  

 

 What i saw was Cain not so open. I think Reggie in that situation would have known to cut the route off a step sooner and come back for the ball.  Saw him catch passes like that, oh, a few hundred times.

  JMO, that Jacoby put it on tape for him. That is where the ball will be in that coverage.

 In the prior game Cain ran a route like that, cut it off, turned right, and was wide open. Unfortunately, the ball wasn't timed great. Cain just stood there waiting on it and the defender came up and knocked it down. A great route, but as soon as he saw the ball wasn't right there, i know he will learn he has to move towards it.

 It is the NFL!

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On 9/25/2019 at 10:26 AM, shastamasta said:

I mean...if you look at Reich's time from SD and PHI...there aren't a lot of guys putting up huge stats. You will obviously have a Keenan Allen or Ertz or Hilton...but Reich likes to use multiple weapons.

 

Right. Ebron hasn't featured yet. Campbell will get his day, I wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't happen till the second half of the season. He'll get his chance to put up 150yds but that's not going to be a weekly thing.

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Ate you forgetting luck favored TE also. They create so many mismatches. When you have ones as good as we have you use them. Right now TY is his security blanket until he develops chemistry with the other two and DF gets back.

I'd point out that Luck only really favored one TE last year, and that was likely due to the lack of talent at WR, and also the constant musical chairs at WR throughout the year. 5 of the top 7 targets last year were WRs, and 3 of them were at X (where we had the musical chairs). If you combine those X targets (Inman, Pascal, Grant), they combine for more than TYs targets, and more than TE in general. 

 

This year, we have speed and talent even without Funchess. Much different situation. 

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1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Two things, on the two misses, Cain was not wide open, he was covered pretty well.  Nor do I think they were intentional back shoulder throws, JB just under threw him.

 

I think you got it right with chemistry, either Cain and JB are not seeing things the same, JB does not have a good feel for Cain's speed or Cain is running the routes incorrectly.  I'm not sure which.  But I do know after rewatching the last two games that Cain has NOT been wide open several times.  

 

IMO, they were definitely back should throws. He missed another WR with the same exact look. With Cain specifically, you could tell by his body language he expected a back shoulder pass, and JB just under threw him. JB had a very similar back shoulder pass to TY, that was a bad throw, but TY adjusted like magician and was able to get to it. 

 

I rewatched the games as well. I'm not talking about him being open on the sideline back shoulder stuff. The back shoulder stuff is designed to keep the DB somewhat close and actually farther downfield. What I'm talking about were other routes where he was actually asked for separation. He wasn't targeted on those throws (I believe they went short/mid to Ebron and Doyle on both occasions). 

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2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

IMO, they were definitely back should throws. He missed another WR with the same exact look. With Cain specifically, you could tell by his body language he expected a back shoulder pass, and JB just under threw him. JB had a very similar back shoulder pass to TY, that was a bad throw, but TY adjusted like magician and was able to get to it. 

I agree JB is good at the back shoulder throws, they were just too far away from him that is why I don't think they were intentional.  But it's just an educated guess.

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I rewatched the games as well. I'm not talking about him being open on the sideline back shoulder stuff. The back shoulder stuff is designed to keep the DB somewhat close and actually farther downfield. What I'm talking about were other routes where he was actually asked for separation. He wasn't targeted on those throws (I believe they went short/mid to Ebron and Doyle on both occasions). 

I'm not talking about those throws either, I'm talking overall in the games.  Coaches film in NFL Gamepass is great for all of that.

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3 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I agree JB is good at the back shoulder throws, they were just too far away from him that is why I don't think they were intentional.  But it's just an educated guess.

I'm not talking about those throws either, I'm talking overall in the games.  Coaches film in NFL Gamepass is great for all of that.

 

I saw several instances where Cain was running free (at least 2 yards of separation) mid depth middle, and a few straight go. He never really got a look from JB as the tosses were quick to TEs. He's been playing a mix of position, but when he's at the Z, he's been pretty open when not running back shoulders or comebacks. By definition (of Z), it's about the easiest position to get open as you're in motion a lot, off the line, etc.. 

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

I saw several instances where Cain was running free (at least 2 yards of separation) mid depth middle, and a few straight go. He never really got a look from JB as the tosses were quick to TEs. He's been playing a mix of position, but when he's at the Z, he's been pretty open when not running back shoulders or comebacks. By definition (of Z), it's about the easiest position to get open as you're in motion a lot, off the line, etc.. 

This happens a lot with every QB in the league. I have seen numerous games where Brady has had Gronkowski 20 yards down the field on a smaller guy but Brady threw an 8 yard pass to Edelman instead which went for 20 yards anyway. All it matters is the result in the end. Why make a possibly risky pass when you can make a sure one and still get big results.

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This happens a lot with every QB in the league. I have seen numerous games where Brady has had Gronkowski 20 yards down the field on a smaller guy but Brady threw an 8 yard pass to Edelman instead which went for 20 yards anyway. All it matters is the result in the end. Why make a possibly risky pass when you can make a sure one and still get big results.

absolutely. just pointing out that Cain has been open. 

 

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8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

absolutely. just pointing out that Cain has been open. 

 

Ans I'm just pointing out that he has not been wide open the last couple of games.   A few times I saw where it looked like he was open down the field was, after something happened to get JB off his spot so the chances of going deep where pretty much nil, or where it looked like the DB was trying to bait JB into throwing.

 

I think Cain can and will be a a good WR for the Colts, dont' get me wrong.  He just has some to learn about the pro game first.

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On 9/24/2019 at 7:10 AM, ColtsGermany said:

Sry, but i think you're wrong here.... Would say wr is pretty easy. I started playing football in December last year. I'm playing Wr. And even i was only little bit more than a half year into it, i already managed to get some snaps on offense. Most of our other recievers play already for several years. Sure, the nuances at the position are deep, but not too hard to learn. I would go with O-Line or CB as the next difficult positions. 

 

(off topic i know :D

That’s pretty impressive making the NFL only playing one year.  JK.

 

the learning curve for most WR is 2-3 years.  There are very few that produce big as rookies.  Just google stats on great WRs and look at their stats their rookie and 2nd years.  

They don’t just run a route tree.  There are many subtle variables that WRs must learn and it usually takes a while.

 

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9 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

The only bad thing is we have to let him loose before the KC game with Hilton out. They might of been caught off guard if we didn’t unleash him until the KC game.

 

Other then the one preseason game, I dont think we've thrown one deep ball to campbell

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11 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Ans I'm just pointing out that he has not been wide open the last couple of games.   A few times I saw where it looked like he was open down the field was, after something happened to get JB off his spot so the chances of going deep where pretty much nil, or where it looked like the DB was trying to bait JB into throwing.

 

I think Cain can and will be a a good WR for the Colts, dont' get me wrong.  He just has some to learn about the pro game first.

 

So you're saying he had separation and looked open, but really wasn't because the D was just setting a trap? OK, got it.

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On 9/27/2019 at 10:59 PM, Nickster said:

That’s pretty impressive making the NFL only playing one year.  JK.

 

the learning curve for most WR is 2-3 years.  There are very few that produce big as rookies.  Just google stats on great WRs and look at their stats their rookie and 2nd years.  

They don’t just run a route tree.  There are many subtle variables that WRs must learn and it usually takes a while.

 

Yeah, watch out for the hyper talented german guys :D

 

Seriously, i never searched for stats.  It was more of my own impression. But now that you mentioned it, i just did a quick investigation and you're right. None of the wr's of the latest drafts were putting up big numbers in their first 2 years. I think i underestimated the gap between college and NFL and the finess of the position. :worthy:  :lecture:

(Or maybe I was just hoping for PC to be a rocket right from the start) 

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On 9/26/2019 at 10:11 AM, Flash7 said:

To be clear, the OP wasn't a "give me instant gratification now" type of post. He wasn't stating that he thought Campbell wasn't good. Of course, it's way too early to judge one way or another.

 

So many have missed the point of the thread, which is --Compared to other rookie receivers, why is Campbell being utilized much less?

 

He has 5 catches for 35 yards and 1 TD.

 

Compared to other rookies:

 

Marquise Brown - 14 catches for 282 yards and 1 TD (Missed preseason with Lis Franc injury)

Terry McLauren - 16 catches for 257 yards and 3 TDs.

DK Metcalf - 9 catches for 217 yards and 1 TD (missed preseason due to knee injury)

Mecole Hardeman - 6 catches for 158 yards and 2 TDs

Deebo Samuel - 11 catches for 147 yards and 1TD (missed preseason time with hip injury)

AJ Brown - 7 catches for 129 yards and 0 TD (missed preseason due to leg injury)

Hunter Renfrow - 9 catches 71 yards, OTD

Marquise brown has two tds

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