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Week 3 impressions: Brissett

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2 hours ago, stitches said:
 

According to PFF Jacoby didn't have a good game this week. Interesting. Besides the throw to TY where he had problem with his accuracy(the one that TY caught and got lit up by the safety) I didn't see anything negative while watching the game live. I will try finding all-22 film and look at it again. 


PFF rankings are weird sometimes. Didn't Nelson grade out pretty badly this week too?

If I had to guess (and get super picky) Brissett misplaced some throws, but what QB doesn't.

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On 9/23/2019 at 1:01 AM, shastamasta said:

 

It's very impressive...better still...the pass catchers caught all of them. We just aren't used to seeing that in a while. 

 

 He was throwing with great touch, on time, with excellent ball placement.
 Not since Manning have we see that. He actually was throwing bbz.

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17 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Exactly!!! Why is that a negative?

 

The QB leading the pass catchers so that he can gain more yards after the catch is a positive to me. I remember a stat where we had about 46% YAC yards in 2009 when we went to the SB and lost to the Saints. Does that mean Peyton wasn't a good QB and the receivers got all the credit?

 

 And throwing it on time. I repeat, James Loften commended Jacoby for throwing the ball to a specific shoulder, telling them which way to break post catch.
THAT, gets you more yards. A thing of beauty.

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Two slow paced offenses about to face off. Could be a game of minimal possessions if the Raiders get their run game going. Gotta make our drives count.

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23 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

Looking at the losing record of the fastest teams it seems that stat doesn’t mean much.

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Getting yards after the catch was a major emphasis with Reich in the off season so that is great we are doing that so well. Lot of that is scheme and hitting guys in the open field. Remember last year how we were also dropping passes. We have been really sure handed this season.

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9 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Looking at the losing record of the fastest teams it seems that stat doesn’t mean much.

The top 10 in pace in neutral situations have 16-13-1 record so far. The bottom 10 have 12-18 record so far. 

 

I'm not sure if there is a big enough correlation over a bigger sample. Also not sure this is the best correlation to look at. To me more interesting would be how good efficient those offenses are, rather than how good the teams are, which is half influenced by the defense which. 

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Jacoby is ranked no. 19 in the league by PFF over the first 3 weeks:

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-pff-rankings-nfl-quarterback-rankings-following-week-3

 

Here's their writeup on him:

 

Quote

 

19. JACOBY BRISSETT, INDIANAPOLIS COLTS

There are already some similarities to Brissett’s game compared to his 2017 stint as Colts’ starter, namely his low ranking in big-time throw percentage (29th) and his ability to avoid turnover-worthy plays (12th).  While Brissett ranks sixth in the league in passer rating at 112.0, his grading profile does not match up to the box score, as he ranks just 31st in positively graded throws, and he has the fourth-highest percentage of his yards coming after the catch. It all adds up to a statistical regression unless Brissett starts to make more plays down the field.

 

 

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Don't know why PFF isn't crediting YAC.  It's not like a QB has nothing to do with the receivers' ability to get open enough to move the ball downfield.

 

Besides, that PFF analysis is completely ignoring the fact that Reich is doing this on purpose.  Both of the 4th quarter drives were short pass focused and YAC driven deliberately, to kill as much clock as possible and not give the Falcons the ball back. 

 

That and, it's what the D was giving us.  Stack the box against the run, we do screens to RBs and TEs and exploit the mismatch against smaller DBs.  It's just what you do.

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36 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

That PFF score on Jacoby is trash.

Sure is.

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

That PFF score on Jacoby is trash.

No, it's bulletin board material.  IF this guy's mentality is as much like Brady's as I think it is, this stuff is perfect to keep him motivated.

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2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

That PFF score on Jacoby is trash.

We're winning. Only score I care about!

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1 hour ago, Imgrandojji said:

Don't know why PFF isn't crediting YAC.  It's not like a QB has nothing to do with the receivers' ability to get open enough to move the ball downfield.

 

Besides, that PFF analysis is completely ignoring the fact that Reich is doing this on purpose.  Both of the 4th quarter drives were short pass focused and YAC driven deliberately, to kill as much clock as possible and not give the Falcons the ball back. 

 

That and, it's what the D was giving us.  Stack the box against the run, we do screens to RBs and TEs and exploit the mismatch against smaller DBs.  It's just what you do.

 

While I think part of his rating is on FR (game plan), the grading it was it is. FR definitely had training wheels on JB game one, and I have zero problem with that. He was asked to do more game 2, made mistakes, and didn't have the best game even though we did enough to win. Game three was much much better, but he did struggle with the backshoulder throws. 

 

On the topic of YAC, I can understand why they exclude it. Not all QBs have high YAC WRs or RBs, so they are simply trimming extraneous factors. 

 

All in all, it's early, and these things normally even out and normalize. JB did take a nice step forward in QBR rating with this last game and is now ranked 11th. Raiders are better against the run than the pass, so JB has a great opportunity to show continued improvement, and elevate his stats. I'm sure he's working hard to improve.

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PFF has four  QB ahead of Mahomes and David Carr as sixth. I think its fair to say their ratings suck.

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On 9/22/2019 at 4:02 PM, Sumo63 said:

Obi-Wan Jacoby continues to impress.  He was an assassin in the first half.  I thought he looked a little rattled at the start of the 1st drive in the fourth but he pulled it together.   The "game manager" manages to win another game and I'm not all that surprised.  I'm really starting to root for this kid.

Love that nickname. Probably because I'm still a Star Wars nerd. Very clever. 

On 9/23/2019 at 8:41 AM, Chloe6124 said:

 

Look, I love to see Jacoby get his props, but I can't stand Deion Sanders because he always slammed Peyton before he won in 2006 & he did the same thing to Eli until he ended NE's perfect season in 2007. 

 

You watch, the minute Jacoby has a bad game Prime Time will disown the QB. I really dislike how when you win the big chip. He pretends he had your back from day 1. Please...

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1 hour ago, Gramz said:

We're winning. Only score I care about!

That's why I like you Gramz. You cut through the fog & never mince words. 

 

Okay, you're smart, funny, & a talented musician in your own right too. 

 

I feel good about Jacoby because if we can beat a high caliber QB like Matt Ryan that is a big deal. We're sitting in a good spot as a franchise. 

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

PFF has four  QB ahead of Mahomes and David Carr as sixth. I think its fair to say their ratings suck.

 

I certainly wouldn't have Carr in the top 10, but he is top 5 in completion %, and has one of the worst WR groups in the NFL. His WRs have less than 300 yards combined in 3 games. He also has played against 2 top 10 passing Ds, and the other game was vs KC while throwing for 70+%. 

 

IIRC, PFF grades each throw including completions and incompletions (as well as pure stats).  A drop that's actually a good throw, would be a positive for the QB, while a bad throw into coverage that is luckily caught, might be a negative. It's just one of many grading systems.

 

I do find it funny though how many folks will pump up passer rating (or whatever best reflects positively), which is a purely stats based formula, while also saying stats don't matter when it doesn't fit their narrative, or criticizing any ratings systems that doesn't reward their guy. 

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4 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

I certainly wouldn't have Carr in the top 10, but he is top 5 in completion %, and has one of the worst WR groups in the NFL. His WRs have less than 300 yards combined in 3 games. He also has played against 2 top 10 passing Ds, and the other game was vs KC while throwing for 70+%. 

 

IIRC, PFF grades each throw including completions and incompletions (as well as pure stats).  A drop that's actually a good throw, would be a positive for the QB, while a bad throw into coverage that is luckily caught, might be a negative. It's just one of many grading systems.

 

I do find it funny though how many folks will pump up passer rating (or whatever best reflects positively), which is a purely stats based formula, while also saying stats don't matter when it doesn't fit their narrative, or criticizing any ratings systems that doesn't reward their guy. 

 

I'd add that I'd bet a lot of people here that are bagging on PFF haven't watched as much film as them but can still say with full certainty they "suck". You might not agree with them, but they do have a methodology, which is more than can be said for some posters. Unless you count uninformed hyperbolic rhetoric as a method.  Film as ever is king, they watch a lot more film then posters who make absolute statements with zero evidence, or even knowledge in some cases. 

 

PFF is what it is, it will never be a perfect tool, but it is very useful. If NFL teams use it....

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Jacoby was Below average in game 1, bad in game 2, and pretty darn good in game 3.  19 sounds a little low but not egregious.  

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i agree with pffs ranking, JB wasnt very good the first two weeks

 

pff isnt perfect but its a lot better than passer rating

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Greg Cosell on Jacoby Brissett(on the Ross Tucker Podcast):

 

https://www.podcastone.com/episode/Greg-Cosell-52418

 

at about 13:50:

 

"I like Jacoby Brissett and I always did. I liked him when he was coming out of NC State and I think he's settling in very nicely. They've sped him up a little bit[the coaching staff] so he's quicker, less deliberate than he used to be, because that used to be a little bit of an issue for him. To me (and I know Dak Prescott is playing at a very high level) ... I think Jacoby Brissett is a similar style player. He's a bigger man, he's got a very good arm, very good movement, deceptive movement for a man that size and he's running an offense that's well designed, well put together. We will see if TY Hilton will play this week, I imagine he won't from what I've read but I don't know the answer for that. So... we'll see... they run the ball very effectively. They are patient with the run game. They play with a lot of multiple TE sets. It's a well conceived offense and he's executing it very very well.. "

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27 minutes ago, stitches said:

Greg Cosell on Jacoby Brissett(on the Ross Tucker Podcast):

 

https://www.podcastone.com/episode/Greg-Cosell-52418

 

at about 13:50:

 

"I like Jacoby Brissett and I always did. I liked him when he was coming out of NC State and I think he's settling in very nicely. They've sped him up a little bit[the coaching staff] so he's quicker, less deliberate than he used to be, because that used to be a little bit of an issue for him. To me (and I know Dak Prescott is playing at a very high level) ... I think Jacoby Brissett is a similar style player. He's a bigger man, he's got a very good arm, very good movement, deceptive movement for a man that size and he's running an offense that's well designed, well put together. We will see if TY Hilton will play this week, I imagine he won't from what I've read but I don't know the answer for that. So... we'll see... they run the ball very effectively. They are patient with the run game. They play with a lot of multiple TE sets. It's a well conceived offense and he's executing it very very well.. "

It makes you wonder how many bad or mediocre QB would be great if they had a good  organization behind them. Starts with the owner and trickles all the way down to all the position coaches.  Although JB arm and size does give him a good starting point.

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12 hours ago, southwest1 said:

Love that nickname. Probably because I'm still a Star Wars nerd. Very clever. 

I wish I could take credit for it.  I've seen it sprinkled on the forum a few times.  Being a giant nerd myself, not necessarily a star wars one, I loved it.  I decided to start using it because I want it to stick, I also think it fitting for Brissett.

 

As much as I'd like to, I cant steal another human's props.  If we take it national though it belongs to all of us.  Go Colts!

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9 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I'd add that I'd bet a lot of people here that are bagging on PFF haven't watched as much film as them but can still say with full certainty they "suck". You might not agree with them, but they do have a methodology, which is more than can be said for some posters. Unless you count uninformed hyperbolic rhetoric as a method.  Film as ever is king, they watch a lot more film then posters who make absolute statements with zero evidence, or even knowledge in some cases. 

 

PFF is what it is, it will never be a perfect tool, but it is very useful. If NFL teams use it....

 

Bingo. I love stats, but I've always said stats are but one of many things to look at. PFF uses both stats and film grading (or the eye test). Not saying I always agree with their output, but I do recognize that they probably exude more effort in the grading process than the majority of folks out there.

 

Also, how many times do we have threads citing PFF for positive grading. Folks simply love to use what is favorable, and bag on things that aren't favorable or does not fit their preferred narrative.

 

At the end of the day, I look at all the grades out there. The truth is always somewhere in between. JB has an opportunity to grow and improve, and that's what is important regardless of the stats/grades. So far, we're 2-1, and have played three 1-2 teams. We have one more "warm up" game before it gets real. I'll feel more informed at mid season lol.

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16 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

 

My buddy mentioned this earlier in the week. It's really early to put to much into these stats, but individually we have TY, Doyle, Ebron, and Funch all with one drop for 4 total.

 

Based on targets, not bad at all for TY (4%), so-so on Ebron and Doyle (~10%), and not good for Funch (20%).

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I don’t think that drop rate is big at all. One drop through three games seems tiny. Bottom line I nfl pass catchers don’t drop many balls so the statistic is almost meaningless.

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2 hours ago, Sumo63 said:

I wish I could take credit for it.  I've seen it sprinkled on the forum a few times.  Being a giant nerd myself, not necessarily a star wars one, I loved it.  I decided to start using it because I want it to stick, I also think it fitting for Brissett.

 

As much as I'd like to, I cant steal another human's props.  If we take it national though it belongs to all of us.  Go Colts!

It was originally posted in a thread about the Captain Andrew Luck Twiiter account and how someone was making one for Jacoby. A poster said that Obiwan Jacoby would be cooler? I quoted it because I thought it was brilliant. 

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11 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

It was originally posted in a thread about the Captain Andrew Luck Twiiter account and how someone was making one for Jacoby. A poster said that Obiwan Jacoby would be cooler? I quoted it because I thought it was brilliant. 


I think that was me but to give credit where it's due, I originally saw it on reddit.

I also shamelessly used it for my FF team name hah.

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19 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

That PFF score on Jacoby is trash.

 

 Then you don't understand that it is about passing.

 And the history of how yards gained per attempt has been a very meaningful stat.

 

 Go look at a site called Fantasy football metrics, and check Jacoby out.

 I am totally excited how Frank, Siriani, and Jacoby have put it together so far, and have total faith they are just getting started. We have several young guys that have much to learn.

 I got a kick out of Ridley from ATL saying how tough our zone was to play against.

 He was confused because there wasn't anyone guarding him. WOW! Yip, a lot to learn.

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15 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Then you don't understand that it is about passing.

 And the history of how yards gained per attempt has been a very meaningful stat.

 

 Go look at a site called Fantasy football metrics, and check Jacoby out.

 I am totally excited how Frank, Siriani, and Jacoby have put it together so far, and have total faith they are just getting started. We have several young guys that have much to learn.

 I got a kick out of Ridley from ATL saying how tough our zone was to play against.

 He was confused because there wasn't anyone guarding him. WOW! Yip, a lot to learn.

When Mahomes is 6th and Derek Carr is 7th they are trash and mean nothing.

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2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

When Mahomes is 6th and Derek Carr is 7th they are trash and mean nothing.

 

This is not exactly objective criticism, feel free to do your own break down and grading and tell us why you disagree :dunno:

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The Raiders are decimated with injuries in the linebacking core.  It will be a good day for the TE's and crossing patterns. TY be a decoy and lock down Conley.  I believe we will see our other back, Williams. Pound them between the tackles and then let Mack do the rest.  As for the defense secondary, this is the game to see what press coverage are they able to support. This maybe a good time to try EJ Speed with Okereke and Walker. 

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11 minutes ago, AustexColt said:

The Raiders are decimated with injuries in the linebacking core.  It will be a good day for the TE's and crossing patterns. TY be a decoy and lock down Conley.  I believe we will see our other back, Williams. Pound them between the tackles and then let Mack do the rest.  As for the defense secondary, this is the game to see what press coverage are they able to support. This maybe a good time to try EJ Speed with Okereke and Walker. 

Yeah. I am not worried about our offense. I just think the defense is going to get  killed so it’s going to be a high scoring game which I don’t like. The raiders TE all leads the league in catches I believe. Just thankful it’s the raiders with all these injuries and not a team like the falcons. If sheard and AQM don’t go how will Turay and Banagu handle the run game.

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On 9/25/2019 at 7:22 AM, Chloe6124 said:

Getting yards after the catch was a major emphasis with Reich in the off season so that is great we are doing that so well. Lot of that is scheme and hitting guys in the open field. Remember last year how we were also dropping passes. We have been really sure handed this season.

 

It's weird to get dinged for getting that YAC, after getting knocked last year for not getting enough YAC. Just wait till they unleash Campbell. 

At the end of the day, as long as those Ws keep rolling in, I'm pretty certain Brissett doesn't care, and luckily he has a GM who won't use those stats against him come negotiation time.

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11 hours ago, Sumo63 said:

I wish I could take credit for it.  I've seen it sprinkled on the forum a few times.  Being a giant nerd myself, not necessarily a star wars one, I loved it.  I decided to start using it because I want it to stick, I also think it fitting for Brissett.

 

As much as I'd like to, I cant steal another human's props.  If we take it national though it belongs to all of us.  Go Colts!

 

8 hours ago, Four2itus said:

It was originally posted in a thread about the Captain Andrew Luck Twiiter account and how someone was making one for Jacoby. A poster said that Obiwan Jacoby would be cooler? I quoted it because I thought it was brilliant. 

 

8 hours ago, Fisticuffs111 said:


I think that was me but to give credit where it's due, I originally saw it on reddit.

I also shamelessly used it for my FF team name hah.

Okay, whatever the true origin story behind the name Obi-Wan Jacoby is...All 3 of you deserve credit for recognizing brilliance & taking it to the next level i.e. keeping that nickname thriving & strong. It's gonna stick gentlemen. Trust me. 

 

Hades, I'll give props to all 3 of ya. Kudos @Four2itus, @Fisticuffs11, and @Sumo63. When you steal from 1 source, it's called plagiarism; when you borrow from more than 1 person--It's called research. LOL! No harm done. Sounds a okay to me fellas. 

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