Mathis vs Holder

[WoolMagnet]

I heard Dakich mention something between Mathis and Holder.

anybody know what he meant?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

After the game Sunday holder tweeted the quote of Adam saying he would talk to the media monday. He never said anything about retirement. Just quoted what AV said. Mathis went off on him. Mathis was in the wrong. Holder did nothing wrong.

[DaveA1102]

 

[lollygagger8]

Good for Mathis! 

 

I really don't know how Holder got his job. 

[IinD]

Almost all media is trash nowadays. I don't believe the majority of what's put out there.

 

They guess and hope to say 'see I told you' in the end. If they're wrong they can put out a 'my source tells me it didn't happen because (insert another lie here)"....

[CoachLite]

Re: Holder, it's just his opinion. Don't take it as a fact. In expressing an opinion, he has the right to be wrong.

[twfish]

Dakich ticked me off yesterday listening to him rant and cry about the situation, so much that I had to turn him off. Holder did stir up some stuff, now whether he interpreted Vinny wrong or he used the words to try and make a headline who knows? All i know is i wish i could be there to witness one of the most menacing looking people i can think off starring down a beat reporter after threatening him  

[jchandler7]

34 minutes ago, twfish said:

Dakich ticked me off yesterday listening to him rant and cry about the situation, so much that I had to turn him off. Holder did stir up some stuff, now whether he interpreted Vinny wrong or he used the words to try and make a headline who knows? All i know is i wish i could be there to witness one of the most menacing looking people i can think off starring down a beat reporter after threatening him  

Dakich is a turd, can't stand listening to him!

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Holder did nothing wrong. All he did was tweet what Vinny told him. 

[luv_pony_express]

It’s a shame that difficult roster matters so often become treated as personal.  Because, at their core, they almost always aren’t.

 

You’d be hard-pressed to find anybody in the Colts universe (players, vets, coaches, fans, media, FO, etc) who doesn’t genuinely hold Adam Vinatieri in very high esteem...as a person or as a player.  In fact, I’d bet the same can be said for people in the Patriots universe.  He means a lot to them, too.

 

This isn’t personal.  Pro sports are about production — not in the past, but in the present and future.  The production is either there or it isn’t.

 

And in Adam’s case, unfortunately, it no longer is.

 

It’s great that Mathis has his back.  But he’s viewing this as a personal affront against a friend and teammate.  It isn’t.

[Bravo]

Holder is garbage in my opinion. Many other reporters who Im sure get paid a lot less go more in depth and seem to have more know knowledge than Holder does.

 

Also I have seen many times where anytime someone disagrees or argues with Holder he pulls the race card. He needs to get over himself.

 

*Rant Over*

[twfish]

4 minutes ago, bravo4460 said:

Holder is garbage in my opinion. Many other reporters who Im sure get paid a lot less go more in depth and seem to have more know knowledge than Holder does.

 

Also I have seen many times where anytime someone disagrees or argues with Holder he pulls the race card. He needs to get over himself.

 

*Rant Over*

I was waiting for the race card to be pulled against Mathis  

[Btown_Colt]

36 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Holder did nothing wrong. All he did was tweet what Vinny told him. 

Or maybe he twisted or added to what Adam told him?? I’m sure you weren’t there to hear what was said.

 

Holder definitely made it sound like Adam would be retiring Monday and that we would for sure hear from Adam the next day. But then we don’t hear from Adam and he comes out to say that he hadn’t even considered retirement. 

 

So either Holder twisted/exaggerated what was said or Adam lied. I think I’ll take Adam’s word.

[chad hugo]

As a colts fan from up north, Im not really familiar with the colts media, can y'all recommend some good reporters to follow on twitter for team news ?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

17 minutes ago, chad hugo said:

As a colts fan from up north, Im not really familiar with the colts media, can y'all recommend some good reporters to follow on twitter for team news ?

I really do like Stephen holder. Kevin Bowen and Zach Keefer  are good. You want great stories you should subscribe to the athletic. Holder and Keefer have great stories on there. It’s a pretty cheap subscription. I got mine for a year for $30. It’s unlimieed stories. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

34 minutes ago, Btown_Colt said:

Or maybe he twisted or added to what Adam told him?? I’m sure you weren’t there to hear what was said.

 

Holder definitely made it sound like Adam would be retiring Monday and that we would for sure hear from Adam the next day. But then we don’t hear from Adam and he comes out to say that he hadn’t even considered retirement. 

 

So either Holder twisted/exaggerated what was said or Adam lied. I think I’ll take Adam’s word.

No. There is other media guys that heard Vinny say the exact same thing that will back up what holder tweeted. Adam didn’t even deny what he said. 

[Fisticuffs111]

I'm not a fan of Holder but he's not in the wrong in this one. Mathis seemed to get unnecessarily worked up over this.

[luv_pony_express]

48 minutes ago, Btown_Colt said:

Or maybe he twisted or added to what Adam told him?? I’m sure you weren’t there to hear what was said.

 

Holder definitely made it sound like Adam would be retiring Monday and that we would for sure hear from Adam the next day. But then we don’t hear from Adam and he comes out to say that he hadn’t even considered retirement. 

 

So either Holder twisted/exaggerated what was said or Adam lied. I think I’ll take Adam’s word.

 

Who knows?  There was also a report that Vinny was ready to hang it up but Reich/Ballard we’re intent on talking him out of it.  Maybe Holder was right but Adam just didn’t want it shared, and now they’re gaslighting Holder to make it sound like he made it up.

 

And now there’s a report that we’re working out other kickers.  Actions speak louder than words?

 

It’s a shame this is happening, really.  It’s not uncommon when a legendary player tries to stretch out a career beyond their abilities to perform at the highest level.

 

Shoulda kept Money Badger.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Vinny admitted to saying it. He said after sitting on it he decided he needed another day to clear his head before talking to the media. Holder never mentioned retirement in his tweet. 

[coltsva]

Big fan of Mathis, not a fan of Holder, but with Holder on this one.

[LuckyHorseShoe§]

1 hour ago, chad hugo said:

As a colts fan from up north, Im not really familiar with the colts media, can y'all recommend some good reporters to follow on twitter for team news ?

Literally anyone other than Dan Dakich and Gregg Doyel

[LuckyHorseShoe§]

57 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

Who knows?  There was also a report that Vinny was ready to hang it up but Reich/Ballard we’re intent on talking him out of it.  Maybe Holder was right but Adam just didn’t want it shared, and now they’re gaslighting Holder to make it sound like he made it up.

 

And now there’s a report that we’re working out other kickers.  Actions speak louder than words?

 

It’s a shame this is happening, really.  It’s not uncommon when a legendary player tries to stretch out a career beyond their abilities to perform at the highest level.

 

Shoulda kept Money Badger.

That other report was by Mike Florio. I think we all know how we feel about Mike Florio

[shasta519]

9 minutes ago, LuckyHorseShoe§ said:

That other report was by Mike Florio. I think we all know how we feel about Mike Florio

 

The problem is that Florio has been right about many things...and wrong.

 

Don’t like the guy...but I never know what to make of what he says anymore. 

[Btown_Colt]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

No. There is other media guys that heard Vinny say the exact same thing that will back up what holder tweeted. Adam didn’t even deny what he said. 

Not denying it and not even bringing it up are two different things.

 

In the very tweets that you posted to this forum...Adam said he had not even contemplated retirement in the last 48 hours.

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Vinny admitted to saying it. He said after sitting on it he decided he needed another day to clear his head before talking to the media. Holder never mentioned retirement in his tweet. 

When did he admit this? I hadn’t send it. All I had seen were the tweets that said he hadn’t thought of retirement the last 48 hours.

 

I never said Holder mentioned retirement either. He sure implied it through.

1 hour ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

Who knows?  There was also a report that Vinny was ready to hang it up but Reich/Ballard we’re intent on talking him out of it.  Maybe Holder was right but Adam just didn’t want it shared, and now they’re gaslighting Holder to make it sound like he made it up.

 

And now there’s a report that we’re working out other kickers.  Actions speak louder than words?

 

It’s a shame this is happening, really.  It’s not uncommon when a legendary player tries to stretch out a career beyond their abilities to perform at the highest level.

 

Shoulda kept Money Badger.

That could all be true. I just find it odd that Adam supposedly said all of that, as if it were a done deal, then on Tuesday says that retirement has never crossed his mind in the last 48 hours. 

 

I would be concerned if the team wasn’t working out kickers. It doesn’t mean that Adam said what Holder reported.

[Btown_Colt]

2 hours ago, chad hugo said:

As a colts fan from up north, Im not really familiar with the colts media, can y'all recommend some good reporters to follow on twitter for team news ?

None. LOL 

 

I wouldn’t call JMV a reporter really, he has a local radio show. He does seem to have an inside source and is usually pretty accurate when he drops something.

 

Holder, Keefer, etc aren’t that good to me. They don’t ask good questions. They don’t seem to have reliable sources. They are just kind of there. And no, the subscription to the athletic is not worth paying for just to see what Holder has to say. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

5 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

Good for Mathis! 

 

I really don't know how Holder got his job. 

 

4 hours ago, IinD said:

Almost all media is trash nowadays. I don't believe the majority of what's put out there.

 

They guess and hope to say 'see I told you' in the end. If they're wrong they can put out a 'my source tells me it didn't happen because (insert another lie here)"....

 

How do either one of these statements apply to what Holder said in his tweet re: Vinatieri? He quoted him verbatim, what more do you want?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Adam said it in his talk with reporters yesterday he just needed to clear his head. There is no doubt in my mind though the colts changed his mind.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

3 hours ago, bravo4460 said:

Holder is garbage in my opinion. Many other reporters who Im sure get paid a lot less go more in depth and seem to have more know knowledge than Holder does.

 

Also I have seen many times where anytime someone disagrees or argues with Holder he pulls the race card. He needs to get over himself.

 

*Rant Over*

 

More in-depth than this?

 

https://theathletic.com/1220038/2019/09/17/film-review-five-takeaways-from-the-colts-week-2-win/

[Btown_Colt]

1 minute ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

 

How do either one of these statements apply to what Holder said in his tweet re: Vinatieri? He quoted him verbatim, what more do you want?

How do you know he quoted him verbatim?

 

I’m going to venture to say that Mathis and Vinatieri speak to one another. Is completely unimaginable that Vinatieri told Mathis, man that’s not what I said at all.

[GoColts8818]

3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Holder did nothing wrong. All he did was tweet what Vinny told him. 

Which said NOTHING about retirement.  Everyone, myself included, took it that way.  That’s on the reader.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, Btown_Colt said:

How do you know he quoted him verbatim?

 

I’m going to venture to say that Mathis and Vinatieri speak to one another. Is completely unimaginable that Vinatieri told Mathis, man that’s not what I said at all.

He actually has it in quotes in this tweet. Several other reporters reported he said the same thing.

 

 

[John Waylon]

We haven’t had a nonissue this big since Tom Fugger got cut...

[GoColts8818]

8 minutes ago, Btown_Colt said:

None. LOL 

 

I wouldn’t call JMV a reporter really, he has a local radio show. He does seem to have an inside source and is usually pretty accurate when he drops something.

 

Holder, Keefer, etc aren’t that good to me. They don’t ask good questions. They don’t seem to have reliable sources. They are just kind of there. And no, the subscription to the athletic is not worth paying for just to see what Holder has to say. 

Right there is a difference between a reporter and someone who is paid to give you their opinion for a living.  One is paid to give you facts and leave their opinion out of it.  The other is paid to take facts and use them to form their opinion and give them to you.  

 

Without getting into a whole thing we live a society that values opinion more than fact thus media puts more people on who give you their opinion not so much facts.  That’s where sports talk radio comes from.  

[Steamboat_Shaun]

5 minutes ago, Btown_Colt said:

How do you know he quoted him verbatim?

 

I’m going to venture to say that Mathis and Vinatieri speak to one another. Is completely unimaginable that Vinatieri told Mathis, man that’s not what I said at all.

 

2 media members with identical quotes from the same player, I'm not sure how much more cut & dry it could be.

 

 

 

 

[luv_pony_express]

39 minutes ago, Btown_Colt said:

That could all be true. I just find it odd that Adam supposedly said all of that, as if it were a done deal, then on Tuesday says that retirement has never crossed his mind in the last 48 hours. 

 

I would be concerned if the team wasn’t working out kickers. It doesn’t mean that Adam said what Holder reported.

 

While it's not unheard of for professional journalists (sports or otherwise) to literally fabricate stories and quotes and such, it's extremely rare.   A) it's relatively easy to get caught, and (b) it's almost certain career suicide.

 

And it's not like this is a complicated story where he's essentially being accused of getting some details wrong (which is not all that uncommon) -- or of proscribing a distorted meaning to a vague or meandering quotation.  This is a simple and straightforward thing.

 

And given that we've heard that Reich (and/or Ballard) is intent on Vinatieri sticking it out, the most likely explanation to me is that AV probably did make a comment either similar or verbatim to what Holder passed along....but, after having talked to Reich/Ballard about it, is basically trying to put the genie back in the bottle.

 

Ask yourself:  given what's happened the past two weeks, is it really plausible that Adam hasn't even contemplated retirement?  Put yourself in his shoes.  Does that pass the smell test?

 

Because it doesn't to me.  I would think it incredibly strange for him to have not contemplated hanging it up after even just the Chargers game.  He lost us the game....even by his own admission.  And not by missing 50+ yard kicks.  He missed one from less than 30 yards, another from 46, and a PAT.  In one game.  That we would've won had he hit his kicks.

 

Use some common sense.  Or Occam's Razor.

[Btown_Colt]

12 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

He actually has it in quotes in this tweet. Several other reporters reported he said the same thing.

 

 

Yup, he quoted what he is saying Adam said, because that is how you show someone else is speaking, you put it in quotes.

 

What I am trying to say is, how do you know that is the exact conversation between them?

 

When he spoke to reporters yesterday he said he told them he would talk to them tomorrow because for the last 2 decades Monday’s were open the media and he needed more time (meaning he didn’t want to talk right then). He also said people should stop assuming things, which I took as a direct comment to Holder. 

 

Just my opinion. I really don’t think Mathis would have went at Holder just because.

 

I’m out in this one, already spent more time on it then I really care to.

[lollygagger8]

36 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

 

How do either one of these statements apply to what Holder said in his tweet re: Vinatieri? He quoted him verbatim, what more do you want?

 

Maybe Mathis simply doesn't like Holder. 

 

Maybe more was said that we don't know about. 

 

All I know is I'm just some * on the internet reading tweets and commenting on a forum. 

 

[IinD]

35 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

 

How do either one of these statements apply to what Holder said in his tweet re: Vinatieri? He quoted him verbatim, what more do you want?

Oh I wasn't even going that deep honestly man. I just was commenting on how there's so many lies in sports reporting.

 

I don't care either way, they're all liars to me.

 

My angle was simply most of 'them' lie, them being beat writers and sports media guys. I don't even know much about this guy. I guess the local folks would know more.

[Btown_Colt]

7 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

While it's not unheard of for professional journalists (sports or otherwise) to literally fabricate stories and quotes and such, it's extremely rare.   A) it's relatively easy to get caught, and (b) it's almost certain career suicide.

 

And it's not like this is a complicated story where he's essentially being accused of getting some details wrong (which is not all that uncommon) -- or of proscribing a distorted meaning to a vague or meandering quotation.  This is a simple and straightforward thing.

 

And given that we've heard that Reich (and/or Ballard) is intent on Vinatieri sticking it out, the most likely explanation to me is that AV probably did make a comment either similar or verbatim to what Holder passed along....but, after having talked to Reich/Ballard about it, is basically trying to put the genie back in the bottle.

 

Ask yourself:  given what's happened the past two weeks, is it really plausible that Adam hasn't even contemplated retirement?  Put yourself in his shoes.  Does that pass the smell test?

 

Because it doesn't to me.  I would think it incredibly strange for him to have not contemplated hanging it up after even just the Chargers game.  He lost us the game....even by his own admission.  And not by missing 50+ yard kicks.  He missed one from less than 30 yards, another from 46, and a PAT.  In one game.  That we would've won had he hit his kicks.

 

Use some common sense.  Or Occam's Razor.

First, I never said any of that in the first two paragraphs. I said it’s not hard to believe that Holder sent that tweet with the intention of implying that Adam just all but said he was going to retire on Monday. That was everyone’s assumption as soon as they saw it. Yes everyone was thinking it was coming anyways, but that tweet helped to confirm assumptions.

 

I don’t know if he has or not. I could see why he would, but he did say that he hasn’t. Maybe he is a liar?

 

Let me ask you this, does Robert Mathis leach out at all reporters? Does he have a history of taking to twitter to call people out? This is the first time I’ve heard of him doing it? 

 

Use some common sense. Or believe everything Holder puts on Twitter. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

14 minutes ago, IinD said:

Oh I wasn't even going that deep honestly man. I just was commenting on how there's so many lies in sports reporting.

 

I don't care either way, they're all liars to me.

 

My angle was simply most of 'them' lie, them being beat writers and sports media guys. I don't even know much about this guy. I guess the local folks would know more.

 

I like Holder, he gets a lot of grief on here & on Twitter for his non-sports takes, but I'm not going anywhere near that rabbithole.