What Happened to the Quick Passing game?

[Nickster 159]

11 hours ago, hoosierhawk said:

 

 

9 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

Yeah, and if teams start successfully restricting the run game by going cover zero you'll see Brisset open it up over the top because that's virtually an invitation to a guy with a strong arm.  So far opposing D are more concerned about stopping the pass.  They haven't got the memo about our change of identity yet

 

Tenn defended everything well but the Cain route and   The 55 yd run which was game changer.  Without it. All the stats look bad.  They are one of the top few ds though.

[krunk 11,705]

Lets just be patient here and let the thing play out with Jacoby.  I've seen Luck have some pretty bad games early in his career also. Anything against Rex Ryan comes to mind, and more recently the Monday nighter against the Carolina Panthers is another one and there are others as well where Luck was awful. 

[Defjamz26 4,012]

Yeah he’s just gotta get that ball out quicker though. We can talk all day about defense this, or WRs getting separation, but it doesn’t change the fact that Reich/Jacoby are not doing a good job with the passing game. They’ve went away from what made them successful last year. I’m sure that as it stands now, no team is worried about Brissett carving them up and putting it on him to win the game.

[Imgrandojji 683]

What made them successful last year was Andrew Luck.  They kind of had no choice but to go away from that.  Jacoby Brissett is simply not Andrew Luck.

[onebad150 76]

On 9/16/2019 at 8:54 AM, Defjamz26 said:

Last year one of the big reasons for Luck’s stellar final campaign was Reich emphasizing this short/quick passing scheme where the ball came out quick. He also brought in the RPOs which was great.

 

2 games into the Brissett era and it seems those concepts are virtually gone. It seems like every play Brissett was dropping back deep. You can tell because there was way more pressure this game then any last year which isn’t the OL. It’s how long Jacoby has the ball.

 

I just can’t understand why they went away from that. Especially with Brissett. He’s probably better suited for that.

You better be careful, I stated this same thing last week. Immediately followed by a bunch of expert posters telling me I did not know what I was talking about.

I think the offense is to conservative, slow as in taking too much time to develop and predictable.   We need to pick up the pace, more short/quick passes I love RPOs. When you see the personnel you know what play we are going to run

How many times did we try to run off tackle to the left  5-6 times Right side once

On a very positive note The shuffle pass to Ebron was totally awesome. And going for it on 4th and inches won the game.

I think there is so much potential in this offense that the play calling is leaving it untapped

[Chloe6124 4,758]

This is a great article with film room from game pass braking down the game from Sunday. 

 

 

[Defjamz26 4,012]

11 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

What made them successful last year was Andrew Luck.  They kind of had no choice but to go away from that.  Jacoby Brissett is simply not Andrew Luck.

The type of offense they ran should be more suited to Jacoby if anything. They shouldn’t have ever gone away from that. The quick passing RPO offense wasn’t tailor made for Luck. 

[Narcosys 1,726]

Jacoby was definitely holding the ball for awhile, but I don't think it had to do with the plays all going deep. The Titan's coverage was strong.

[Chloe6124 4,758]

They are taking what a defense gives them. The next game the defense might give them a lot of passing yards. Nothing has changed except Reich saying before Luck even retired he wanted to commit to the run and use RPO more.

[Chloe6124 4,758]

2 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Jacoby was definitely holding the ball for awhile, but I don't think it had to do with the plays all going deep. The Titan's coverage was strong.

Yep. You can see it in the film room posted on game pass. Protection also broke down in spots. He had Campbell wide open in the slot but by that time the pocket broke down and he had to scramble. Not sure if that was thdyvjyst didn’t call the right protection or it was the oline.

[Superman 35,183]

On 9/16/2019 at 3:29 PM, braveheartcolt said:

You said 'really bad'. When I think 'really bad', I think Curtis Painter. JB looked like a HOFer compared to ol' Curty boy. I thought he played ok, against a good defence, in tough conditions (on the road, heat etc) and with a pretty raw WR Corp. I think you are being a tad harsh on this occasion, almost deliberately overlooking all the good plays he produced. I am equally suspicious of his overall quality, but it is rather early in the season to judge.

 

That's fair. I'd say bad, disjointed, out of rhythm. I'd give him a D for Sunday's performance.

 

Curtis Painter would be an F-. Not really bad, but dreadful, awful, terrible, atrocious, shouldn't be on a football field... 

 

I don't think I'm overlooking JB's good plays. I just don't think he had very many. Maybe four? Two really good throws on the TDs, really nice job on the third and long to TY, a couple other good throws? It's hard for me to give him credit for escaping pressure when it seemed like he was inviting the pressure by being slow to get rid of the ball. Take away the escapes and focus on his work as a passer and the initiator of the offense, and I think he had a bad game. The sneaks were good... he got four yards on third and 1.

 

I don't think that game is necessarily the way he'll always play. I think he saw a dramatically different defense from the previous week, one that's difficult even for experienced QBs, and he wasn't quite able to get his bearings. He still did some good things, but I think he has to be much better moving forward. Especially if the run game is struggling, which it was, until Wilkins broke his big run. 

[2006Coltsbestever 23,139]

12 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That's fair. I'd say bad, disjointed, out of rhythm. I'd give him a D for Sunday's performance.

 

Curtis Painter would be an F-. Not really bad, but dreadful, awful, terrible, atrocious, shouldn't be on a football field... 

 

I don't think I'm overlooking JB's good plays. I just don't think he had very many. Maybe four? Two really good throws on the TDs, really nice job on the third and long to TY, a couple other good throws? It's hard for me to give him credit for escaping pressure when it seemed like he was inviting the pressure by being slow to get rid of the ball. Take away the escapes and focus on his work as a passer and the initiator of the offense, and I think he had a bad game. The sneaks were good... he got four yards on third and 1.

 

I don't think that game is necessarily the way he'll always play. I think he saw a dramatically different defense from the previous week, one that's difficult even for experienced QBs, and he wasn't quite able to get his bearings. He still did some good things, but I think he has to be much better moving forward. Especially if the run game is struggling, which it was, until Wilkins broke his big run. 

"I'd give him a D for Sunday's performance". That is a little harsh isn't it? JB was nothing special on Sunday but a D? I graded him out as a C. He was average at worse IMO. He threw for 3 TD's, only 1 INT and had 4 plays where he either ran or sneaked it for crucial 1st downs. We also won the game. You have to remember the Titans have a very good secondary and this was a divisional game on the road. The Titans were favored in this game.

[jbaron04 606]

On 9/16/2019 at 8:54 AM, Defjamz26 said:

Last year one of the big reasons for Luck’s stellar final campaign was Reich emphasizing this short/quick passing scheme where the ball came out quick. He also brought in the RPOs which was great.

 

2 games into the Brissett era and it seems those concepts are virtually gone. It seems like every play Brissett was dropping back deep. You can tell because there was way more pressure this game then any last year which isn’t the OL. It’s how long Jacoby has the ball.

 

I just can’t understand why they went away from that. Especially with Brissett. He’s probably better suited for that.

I think the titans secondary had a lot to do with that , guys weren’t getting open fast 

[ProblChld32 622]

On 9/16/2019 at 8:54 AM, Defjamz26 said:

Last year one of the big reasons for Luck’s stellar final campaign was Reich emphasizing this short/quick passing scheme where the ball came out quick. He also brought in the RPOs which was great.

 

2 games into the Brissett era and it seems those concepts are virtually gone. It seems like every play Brissett was dropping back deep. You can tell because there was way more pressure this game then any last year which isn’t the OL. It’s how long Jacoby has the ball.

 

I just can’t understand why they went away from that. Especially with Brissett. He’s probably better suited for that.

They played a ton of man coverage, so it was really hard to get someone open the way they locked everyone up. Jacoby really has to focus on reading the defense and hitting his check downs when it’s not there. He did hold on to the ball longer than he should have on some plays. But I thought he played well outside of a few turnovers. One of which (the interception) I don’t really put on him.

[Superman 35,183]

10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

"I'd give him a D for Sunday's performance". That is a little harsh isn't it? JB was nothing special on Sunday but a D? I graded him out as a C. He was average at worse IMO. He threw for 3 TD's, only 1 INT and had 4 plays where he either ran or sneaked it for crucial 1st downs. We also won the game. You have to remember the Titans have a very good secondary and this was a divisional game on the road. The Titans were favored in this game.

 

I don't think it's harsh, I think it's a difference of opinion.

 

I'm glad he threw 3 TDs, but that's three plays out of 35 dropbacks. (And really, if we're talking about stats, how about the 146 yards, or the 4.2 yards/attempted, adjusted for sacks and scrambles?) The sneaks don't speak to good QBing. Several of the scrambles came after he held the ball too long, IMO. I also don't think getting the win is a factor; we lost Week 1, but JB played well, with some minor nitpicks. This was a win, but a far lesser performance by JB.

 

My issues were he held the ball too long, too often, seemed gunshy in doing so. He had some really poorly placed throws, and a couple others that weren't good decisions or were too late. It wasn't a good job QBing on Sunday. The 3 TDs and a win are good, but I'm not gonna wallpaper those stats over what I thought was an ugly performance by the QB. 

 

In rewatching, though, I remembered how much I like JB's throwing motion. His approach, his balance, the wind-up, how the ball pops off his hand, etc. He's a really powerful thrower.

[Chloe6124 4,758]

The more playing time he gets with these guys the more chemistry they will develop and the faster the ball will come out. We really missed DF Sunday.

[SteelCityColt 7,533]

On 9/16/2019 at 4:04 PM, Superman said:

Week 1, Brissett's average time to throw was 2.33 seconds, third quickest in the NFL.

 

Week 2, Brissett's average time to throw was 3.01 seconds, fifth slowest in the NFL (so far; two teams playing tonight). 

 

Two different defensive approaches in the first two games, but he's going to have to find a happy medium so that he can attack downfield but still get rid of the ball. He went from one extreme to the other in the first two weeks.

 

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

The more playing time he gets with these guys the more chemistry they will develop and the faster the ball will come out. We really missed DF Sunday.

 

While there is logic to what you say @Chloe6124, Superman's post shows that it's unlikely to be the main reason behind the ball coming out quicker. Bear in mind too that's it not like he's not practised with some of these guys over a course of 2 and a bit seasons. 

 

There might be a degree of the coaching staff having Luck in mind when they drew up the playbook, and adjustments having to be made, but mostly on Sunday it looked like Brissett got skitty and indecisive. The double pump fumble was clearly a case of changing his mind mid throw, that's a cardinal sin as a QB. 

 

To be fair we also saw Luck get skitty a few times early in games, often when he threw early picks. However he always seemed to shake it off and rally. 

 

I quite like him as a QB mechanically/physically, the jury is still out on the mental side. 

[Chloe6124 4,758]

I think everyone has to remember he is still really only in his second year as a starter. I really am not concerned at all with Reich as his coach. Sirianni mentioned in the presser yesterday when talking about the oline that him holding the ball a little to long was one of the reasons for the breakdown of the oline.  Play calling also needs to get better with calling quicker reads. Instead of Rogers having 3 catches in the slot that needs to be Campbell. It’s going to be fun to see if he does evolve as the season goes on and it gets better.  Practice is not game time experience.

[Imgrandojji 683]

30 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think everyone has to remember he is still really only in his second year as a starter. I really am not concerned at all with Reich as his coach. Sirianni mentioned in the presser yesterday when talking about the oline that him holding the ball a little to long was one of the reasons for the breakdown of the oline.  Play calling also needs to get better with calling quicker reads. Instead of Rogers having 3 catches in the slot that needs to be Campbell. It’s going to be fun to see if he does evolve as the season goes on and it gets better.  Practice is not game time experience.

Brissett's already better than he was in 2017.  2017 Brissett doesn't deliver in the red zone the way this year's version does.

 

He's learning.  It'll take awhile before he's got his game fully under control but he is learning.

[egg 788]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

 

My issues were he held the ball too long, too often, seemed gunshy in doing so. 

 

I respect your opinion when it comes to judging QB play.

 

But Tenn. has a very good defense, and what if receivers just are not open? I like that Brissett doesn't seem to force passes. (I thought the pick was a poor decision because TY looked well covered to me)

 

Surely on some plays it was the case that no one was open. In those instances, what is the QB supposed to do?

 

I'm sure there were plays where he did not see open receivers, but were there a lot?

 

 

 

[Superman 35,183]

39 minutes ago, egg said:

I respect your opinion when it comes to judging QB play.

 

But Tenn. has a very good defense, and what if receivers just are not open? I like that Brissett doesn't seem to force passes. (I thought the pick was a poor decision because TY looked well covered to me)

 

Surely on some plays it was the case that no one was open. In those instances, what is the QB supposed to do?

 

I'm sure there were plays where he did not see open receivers, but were there a lot?

 

I don't want him to force throws either, but he can get rid of it. On the pick, it was third down so he's not gonna throw it away, but my issue is the placement of the throw, not the decision. He put the ball right where it needed to be on the TDs to Hilton and Campbell. But on the pick? It was too far to the inside, especially for a well-covered receiver.

 

On the first sack (I think), Mack was open in the flat, and JB didn't see him. There were others.

 

Thanks for the kind words.

[a06cc 658]

He has a stronger arm than Luck. This is JB’s first season with this roster. Holding onto the football was also an issue with Andrew as well. We’ll see improvement as the season goes on.

[a06cc 658]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't want him to force throws either, but he can get rid of it. On the pick, it was third down so he's not gonna throw it away, but my issue is the placement of the throw, not the decision. He put the ball right where it needed to be on the TDs to Hilton and Campbell. But on the pick? It was too far to the inside, especially for a well-covered receiver.

 

On the first sack (I think), Mack was open in the flat, and JB didn't see him. There were others.

 

Thanks for the kind words.

I’m glad you caught Mack being open on that sack. I was shocked he didn’t see him. 

[Chloe6124 4,758]

Don’t think though that luck never missed a open guy. He wasn’t perfect.

[Superman 35,183]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Don’t think though that luck never missed a open guy. He wasn’t perfect.

 

Not relevant.

[stitches 5,657]

13 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't want him to force throws either, but he can get rid of it. On the pick, it was third down so he's not gonna throw it away, but my issue is the placement of the throw, not the decision. He put the ball right where it needed to be on the TDs to Hilton and Campbell. But on the pick? It was too far to the inside, especially for a well-covered receiver.

 

On the first sack (I think), Mack was open in the flat, and JB didn't see him. There were others.

 

Thanks for the kind words.

 

10 hours ago, a06cc said:

I’m glad you caught Mack being open on that sack. I was shocked he didn’t see him. 

Mariota does the exact same thing - he had wide open outlet receivers on a couple of his sacks and he just didn't see them and let himself get sacked. This is the comparison I've found myself making more and more with Brissett. Doesn't see receivers, is not aggressive with his throws, lacks anticipation... problems with ball placement. 

[stitches 5,657]

10 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Don’t think though that luck never missed a open guy. He wasn’t perfect.

This is not the question. Every single QB will miss a receiver here or there. Every single QB will place the ball in harms way every now and then. Just like every QB will make some great aggressive throws(look at Brissett's throw to Ebron in the Chargers game... that was a beauty). The question is about the frequency and consistency of those throws. The great ones miss receivers less frequenty and make big time plays more frequently. So far the book on Brissett is that he is relatively passive with his throws and that he misses receivers relatively frequently. Part of it might be the way Reich is calling the offense right now... we will see if anything changes by the end of the season... but even if you put the blame on Reich for the relatively passive passing game, then it again boils down to having a QB that your playcaller doesn't trust to make the big plays. It ends up with the offense being crippled in similar ways whether it's the QB not being able to make the throws or the coach not willing to give him that responsibility. 

[Nickster 159]

5 hours ago, stitches said:

 

Mariota does the exact same thing - he had wide open outlet receivers on a couple of his sacks and he just didn't see them and let himself get sacked. This is the comparison I've found myself making more and more with Brissett. Doesn't see receivers, is not aggressive with his throws, lacks anticipation... problems with ball placement. 

Yeah Marietta sucks

[compuls1v3 291]

On 9/17/2019 at 8:51 PM, Superman said:

 

That's fair. I'd say bad, disjointed, out of rhythm. I'd give him a D for Sunday's performance.

 

Curtis Painter would be an F-. Not really bad, but dreadful, awful, terrible, atrocious, shouldn't be on a football field... 

 

I don't think I'm overlooking JB's good plays. I just don't think he had very many. Maybe four? Two really good throws on the TDs, really nice job on the third and long to TY, a couple other good throws? It's hard for me to give him credit for escaping pressure when it seemed like he was inviting the pressure by being slow to get rid of the ball. Take away the escapes and focus on his work as a passer and the initiator of the offense, and I think he had a bad game. The sneaks were good... he got four yards on third and 1.

 

I don't think that game is necessarily the way he'll always play. I think he saw a dramatically different defense from the previous week, one that's difficult even for experienced QBs, and he wasn't quite able to get his bearings. He still did some good things, but I think he has to be much better moving forward. Especially if the run game is struggling, which it was, until Wilkins broke his big run. 

I think a D is harsh grade for a win.  I too feel a C is better suited for him that game.  He kept some drives alive and scored some TDs.  I do see that he seemed hesitant on several occasions, definitely indecisive, but he got the job done.