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Week 2 impressions: Brissett

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Brissett has played better through the first 2 games than I was expecting. He does need to through the ball down field more though. His miss of a wide open Deon Cain in the first qtr last week was really bad. The chargers and titans were stacking the box a lot and we still ran the ball well. When Luck first retired I thought we would win 5 games, but before the season started I changed it to 10 or 11 because this defense is just that good. I also think this team would win 10 or 11 games whether Brissett or Kelly played qb(but not Hoyer). Solid, young team we have right now, fun to watch!

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1 minute ago, Two_pound said:

Brissett has played better through the first 2 games than I was expecting. He does need to throw the ball down field more though. His miss of a wide open Deon Cain in the first qtr last week was really bad. The chargers and titans were stacking the box a lot and we still ran the ball well. When Luck first retired I thought we would win 5 games, but before the season started I changed it to 10 or 11 because this defense is just that good. I also think this team would win 10 or 11 games whether Brissett or Kelly played qb(but not Hoyer). Solid, young team we have right now, fun to watch!

 

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2 hours ago, Two_pound said:

Brissett has played better through the first 2 games than I was expecting. He does need to through the ball down field more though. His miss of a wide open Deon Cain in the first qtr last week was really bad. The chargers and titans were stacking the box a lot and we still ran the ball well. When Luck first retired I thought we would win 5 games, but before the season started I changed it to 10 or 11 because this defense is just that good. I also think this team would win 10 or 11 games whether Brissett or Kelly played qb(but not Hoyer). Solid, young team we have right now, fun to watch!

That miss to Cain will come with more playing time with the receivers. Even though he missed Cain did a great job of tracking the ball and adjusting and was still in a position to catch it.  In the end we still got a TD.

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6 hours ago, stitches said:

 

Luck and TY played years together. You have to give it some time. It really isn’t fair to say that yet.

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On Brissett missing open receivers, he will certainly get better at that.

 

When you see that on film, it's easy to feel it's a vision problem, like he just doesnt see it.

 

But that stuff comes thru film study and playing time, knowing the play you're running and how it looks vs certain defenses. That tells you what to look for, because its impossible to see the entire field during each play, there is way too much going on. This week he watched that play with the coaches, and they pointed it out to him, and he knows he missed one. So next time we call it, he will be looking for him on that route. 

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10 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

That miss to Cain will come with more playing time with the receivers. Even though he missed Cain did a great job of tracking the ball and adjusting and was still in a position to catch it.  In the end we still got a TD.

Exactly. These guys have barely worked together when you compare them to Luck and Hilton. They came in together.

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1 minute ago, GoatBeard said:

Exactly. These guys have barely worked together when you compare them to Luck and Hilton. They came in together.

Regardless of how long players have played together that looks a disappointing play. The two options are in his same line of sight, they've got the same operation and hes chosen to go to the safer, shorter option. On that occasion it's nothing to do with the play call, the defense, the game situation or anything like that. It's simply an opportunity to gain significant extra yards from a simple read.

 

The comparison with Luck is unfair but it's a fair reflection of where Brissett needs to improve to get his YPA and game yards up to a reasonable level.

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This is not about play recognition or about studying the film. This one is about anticipation because in the span of 0.1 seconds Hilton makes that one from a potentially contested throw into a "there is noone 10 yards around me" throw with potential for TD run after the catch. Brissett needs to anticipate this through monitoring the movement of the defenders and his receivers and anticipating that this window will open up by the time the ball arrives at the receiver even if it doesn't look like it is open at the moment he releases the ball. This is when he needed to throw the ball:

gVELoZE.jpg

 

The safety is already cleared by the vertical post route by Pascal and the linebacker has his hips flipped to the inside even if he's just a couple of yards away from Hilton. You have to throw this. You just have to. You have to anticipate that no defender in the picture would be able to get anywhere close to Hilton at the moment the ball arrives. Hell, when a linebacker is covering Hilton you probably have to throw it even if the defender is not in this of a compromised position already. 

 

This is just one example, but this is happening relatively frequently with Brissett. In most cases it's not THIS obvious, but that's the crux of the matter -- he doesn't see and he doesn't make the aggressive throws. It's not just the playcalling. I'm not sure just how much this can be fixed through coaching and experience. 

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Before the season started I mentioned it could take some games for the offense to come together. Give it time. You guys expect everything to be perfect right away.  We are 1-1 and should be 2-0. Sit back and relax and see what happens by mid season. 

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Just now, Chloe6124 said:

Before the season started I mentioned it could take some games for the offense to come together. Give it time. You guys expect everything to be perfect right away.  We are 1-1 and should be 2-0. Sit back and relax and see what happens by mid season. 

A win this week will go a long way with some of the pessimistic people, at least it should. The QB we are playing this week is way better than Mariota.

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4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

A win this week will go a long way with some of the pessimistic people, at least it should. The QB we are playing this week is way better than Mariota.

Not just that he hasn’t played in almost two years. No doubt that effects timing and anticipation. He has a great coach. Let’s see what happens. There is a lot of nit picking going on. 

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

Not just that he hasn’t played in almost two years. No doubt that effects timing and anticipation. He had a great coach. Let’s see what happens. There is a lot of nit picking going on. 

Tomorrow would be a huge win, 1 game at a time.

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26 minutes ago, stitches said:

This is not about play recognition or about studying the film. This one is about anticipation because in the span of 0.1 seconds Hilton makes that one from a potentially contested throw into a "there is noone 10 yards around me" throw with potential for TD run after the catch. Brissett needs to anticipate this through monitoring the movement of the defenders and his receivers and anticipating that this window will open up by the time the ball arrives at the receiver even if it doesn't look like it is open at the moment he releases the ball. This is when he needed to throw the ball:

gVELoZE.jpg

 

The safety is already cleared by the vertical post route by Pascal and the linebacker has his hips flipped to the inside even if he's just a couple of yards away from Hilton. You have to throw this. You just have to. You have to anticipate that no defender in the picture would be able to get anywhere close to Hilton at the moment the ball arrives. Hell, when a linebacker is covering Hilton you probably have to throw it even if the defender is not in this of a compromised position already. 

 

This is just one example, but this is happening relatively frequently with Brissett. In most cases it's not THIS obvious, but that's the crux of the matter -- he doesn't see and he doesn't make the aggressive throws. It's not just the playcalling. I'm not sure just how much this can be fixed through coaching and experience. 

That's a veteran throw.  Brissett is smart and calm, but he's not a veteran yet.  Give it time.  He's still figuring things out.  He'll learn the art of the touch pass and learn to anticipate his teammates given time.  He has shown he can make smart reaction plays and anticipate.  he just didn't do it that time.

 

I mean yeah, Peyton or Luck would make that throw, but we've already been over the fact that Brissett isn't Peyton or Luck.  Even if he does eventually learn the finer points of QB at the NFL level -- it's going to take him time to do it.

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2 hours ago, GoatBeard said:

On Brissett missing open receivers, he will certainly get better at that.

 

When you see that on film, it's easy to feel it's a vision problem, like he just doesnt see it.

 

But that stuff comes thru film study and playing time, knowing the play you're running and how it looks vs certain defenses. That tells you what to look for, because its impossible to see the entire field during each play, there is way too much going on. This week he watched that play with the coaches, and they pointed it out to him, and he knows he missed one. So next time we call it, he will be looking for him on that route. 

 

In the film room, and likely during the game, Hoyer helps here as well. He can see things out there in real time and is not under duress.

 

1 hour ago, stitches said:

This is not about play recognition or about studying the film. This one is about anticipation because in the span of 0.1 seconds Hilton makes that one from a potentially contested throw into a "there is noone 10 yards around me" throw with potential for TD run after the catch. Brissett needs to anticipate this through monitoring the movement of the defenders and his receivers and anticipating that this window will open up by the time the ball arrives at the receiver even if it doesn't look like it is open at the moment he releases the ball. This is when he needed to throw the ball:

gVELoZE.jpg

 

The safety is already cleared by the vertical post route by Pascal and the linebacker has his hips flipped to the inside even if he's just a couple of yards away from Hilton. You have to throw this. You just have to. You have to anticipate that no defender in the picture would be able to get anywhere close to Hilton at the moment the ball arrives. Hell, when a linebacker is covering Hilton you probably have to throw it even if the defender is not in this of a compromised position already. 

 

This is just one example, but this is happening relatively frequently with Brissett. In most cases it's not THIS obvious, but that's the crux of the matter -- he doesn't see and he doesn't make the aggressive throws. It's not just the playcalling. I'm not sure just how much this can be fixed through coaching and experience. 

 

He's been asked to not try to be Andrew Luck, but be himself.  While he gets a good feel, he's not going to go gunslinger and possibly throw pick 6's trying to be a hero. He will do what he needs to be competitive in the meantime. As the season progresses, I expect a little less being a game manager and a bit more quarterback play making to appear.

 

 

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Not overly impressed. Average QB at best.  Needs to take more deep shots to the receivers.

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51 minutes ago, gacoop1 said:

Not overly impressed. Average QB at best.  Needs to take more deep shots to the receivers.

On one hand you say he's an average QB and on another you say he needs to take more high risk plays.

 

Even talented quarterbacks get punished a lot if they rely too much on the deep ball and take ill-advised shots downfield.  Case in point, Brett Favre who burned his own team as often as he carried them  Now imagine a guy who isn't anywhere near as talented as Favre trying to do the same thing.

 

Brissett needs to be mentally agile.  Take what's there and make avoiding turnovers and being a good posession and ball control QB his #1 priorities.  If he doesn't, if he gets slap happy and tries to be what he isn't, he's going to be out of the league.

 

The problem is the Colts fans aren't used to ball control.  We're used to a guy who can take shots, and getting carried by the shots they take.  We've now got a conservative coach and a QB whose style rewards conservative playcalling.  We're going to have to get used to that

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Everyone has to remember no preseason games either. This was a situation where this team could of benefited with a ton of pre season time with the new QB. 

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2 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

but he's not a veteran yet.  

 

Are you serious? He’s started a full season, he’s had a full TC and preseason. Why are folks making excuses for a 4th year veteran, who just signed a lucrative extension. Does JB get a pass, because he wasn’t a #1 pick?

 

I don’t get the making excuses for JB and it’s going to take time talk.How much time? 6-7 years in the league?? Unreal.

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On 9/15/2019 at 3:13 PM, BlueCollarColts said:

Not as impressive as last week, but not a terrible performance. Bad INT and that fumble just can’t happen. Did have 3 TD passes, Wilkins saved us with that big run at the end.

 

We’re going to have to play like Dallas. Rely on our offensive line and run the football. Brissett has the arm to take more shots down the field, but he seems too hesistant and isn’t anticipating guys being open very well. He’s waiting for them to run open, which is causing some of his throws to come in late.

Great Point

 

I live in Dallas area and watch the Cowboys a lot to see Zeke ...

(From THE Ohio State :) )

 

Dak is more like JB than many people know.

 

I say "Like" 

 

Not at the same level.... but with some games and some health.... JB MAY... Just MAY be able to get himself up to the top 10-15 in the league.....

(Like Dak is now) which MAY be Enough for this team to be very good

 

Now as this board has become the land of exaggeration and petty argument,

 

I want to save everyone and let me be clear of the word MAY....

 

It doesn't mean for sure.......

 

 

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11 minutes ago, MPStack said:

 

Are you serious? He’s started a full season, he’s had a full TC and preseason. Why are folks making excuses for a 4th year veteran, who just signed a lucrative extension. Does JB get a pass, because he wasn’t a #1 pick?

 

I don’t get the making excuses for JB and it’s going to take time talk.How much time? 6-7 years in the league?? Unreal.

We will all know in the next 4-6 games what we have with JB

 

He has an awesome OL

 

He has a very good RB

 

He has a good stable of WRs and TEs

 

If he cant make the offense sing with ALL THE TOOLS available...... it will show soon enough....

 

 

 

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Losing Funchess was a huge loss for him also. Now we have just TY and basically two rookies. That funchess injury was a big loss. Hopefully Cain and Campbell come along quickly. We are going to miss DF until they start catching on. We also have barely using the TE as receivers because we are running. I couldn’t believe it when we had 3 TE in on that Wilkins run last week. That will start to confuse defenses eventually.  We played two very good defenses. We won’t have that hard of back to back games the rest of the season. To come out of that at 1-1 and should be 2-0 is pretty dang good.

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3 hours ago, stitches said:

This is just one example, but this is happening relatively frequently with Brissett. In most cases it's not THIS obvious, but that's the crux of the matter -- he doesn't see and he doesn't make the aggressive throws. It's not just the playcalling. I'm not sure just how much this can be fixed through coaching and experience. 


I'm sort of surprised at the replies your post is drawing. I wouldn't use the word defensive because that's not it, but it's like people jump on any sort of evaluation/criticism of Brissett's game so far.

I get that Brissett's not a finished product and that we can't have a final evaluation of him until the end of the season (and he's obviously done well in certain areas already, red zone passing for one)...but until then, I'm appreciative of posts/breakdowns that point out where Brissett does need to improve going forward. 

There's room for both praise and constructive criticism.

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24 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Losing Funchess was a huge loss for him also. Now we have just TY and basically two rookies. That funchess injury was a big loss. Hopefully Cain and Campbell come along quickly. We are going to miss DF until they start catching on. We also have barely using the TE as receivers because we are running. I couldn’t believe it when we had 3 TE in on that Wilkins run last week. That will start to confuse defenses eventually.  We played two very good defenses. We won’t have that hard of back to back games the rest of the season. To come out of that at 1-1 and should be 2-0 is pretty dang good.

I would like to see a film break down on whether  Campbell  and cain  have been open. That way we can figure  out if Brissett  is overlooking  a bunch of wide open wrs or if he checks down because  they aren't  open. 

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14 minutes ago, Stephen said:

I would like to see a film break down on whether  Campbell  and cain  have been open. That way we can figure  out if Brissett  is overlooking  a bunch of wide open wrs or if he checks down because  they aren't  open. 

I don’t think they are getting many snaps. Rogers is getting to many snaps in my opinion. Remember before the season because we had DF we were going to be able to take Cain slow. We don’t have that luxury anymore. He has to step in and be the guy. Eventually this running game is going to open up that pass game. If Brissett was throwing 40 times and only hitting 20 targets I would be nervous. He hasn’t been asked to do that yet. Everyone here is acting like he cant hit any body. We have been so good in the run even our third downs for the most part have been third and shorts. Which means more runs and short passes. When Brissett has had to hit third or fourth and long he has for the most part. This isn’t about  missing guys. This is all about the run game and getting the flow of the offense going. We did the same thing with Luck last year. We have barely used the playbook. If  its still like this half way through the season and we aren’t winning then there is a reason to be nervous.

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1 hour ago, MPStack said:

 

Are you serious? He’s started a full season, he’s had a full TC and preseason. Why are folks making excuses for a 4th year veteran, who just signed a lucrative extension. Does JB get a pass, because he wasn’t a #1 pick?

 

I don’t get the making excuses for JB and it’s going to take time talk.How much time? 6-7 years in the league?? Unreal.

 

This is nothing, check out the Titans Reddit sub.  The majority of members are still making excuses for Mariota and it has been 5 years!!!!

 

You know why?  Because he has a relatively good QBR and a really low interception rate.  Sound familiar?

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1 hour ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I get that Brissett's not a finished product and that we can't have a final evaluation of him until the end of the season (and he's obviously done well in certain areas already, red zone passing for one).

 

And TD to Int ratio for two, as well as 3rd down conversion (greater than 50%) for 3...

 

When Colts needed a drive leading to a score, he has delivered. It's just the beginning of only his second full year starting.  Not like he's on year 5...

 

That said, JB needs improvement.  I expect it to be a continuous feature in his games.

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We really could use another veteran wide receiver. Cain and Campbell need to grow up fast. That or Ebron needs to get involved more as a WR like last year. Cain is averaging 17.5 yards a catch. I hope both get more involved this weekend at home.

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14 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

And TD to Int ratio for two, as well as 3rd down conversion (greater than 50%) for 3...

 

When Colts needed a drive leading to a score, he has delivered. It's just the beginning of only his second full year starting.  Not like he's on year 5...

 

That said, JB needs improvement.  I expect it to be a continuous feature in his games.


Yeah, that's all I'm saying. That said, not straying away from the fact that he's early in his career, he's not a finished product.

As for the good stuff, I'm glad he's doing well on 3rd downs and the red zone. Those were two things he struggled with in '17 (a lot of those had to do with bad coaching/bad OL).

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37 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

And TD to Int ratio for two, as well as 3rd down conversion (greater than 50%) for 3...

 

When Colts needed a drive leading to a score, he has delivered. It's just the beginning of only his second full year starting.  Not like he's on year 5...

 

That said, JB needs improvement.  I expect it to be a continuous feature in his games.

I expect a few "teachable moments."  And I expect the fanbase to struggle to understand what progress looks like with a nonelite QB learning on the job.  Not that it's their fault necessarily, this is just beyond everyone's comfort zone.

 

For a second year starter Brissett has looked really good IMHO. he's  fundamentally sound, doesn't make a lot of mistakes and can execute when called upon.  That's kind of the pattern we need to look at going forward for him

 

Twice in 2 games it looked like things were getting away from us and he led the team back into the fight  that all by itself is almost more than we should have hoped for.  but people are used to measuring QB talent by throwing yards so they don't  see it.

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1 minute ago, Imgrandojji said:

I expect a few "teachable moments."  And I expect the fanbase to struggle to understand what progress looks like with a nonelite QB learning on the job.  Not that it's their fault necessarily, this is just beyond everyone's comfort zone.

That is why I have no expectations. I think this team is going to be fun to watch but not in the Andrew Luck kind of way. Just sit back and enjoy it. We will either need another QB or JB will grow.  I would be more concerned if his completion percentage was bad and he was missing guys all the time. The fact is his completion percentage is pretty good it’s just we have run the ball a lot. Remember the run the dang ball hat. Reich is establishing the run right off the bat which in time should open up the pass game a lot. Right now JB has been great in the areas I wasn’t sure about. That is third down and clutch plays. We have had very few third and long. Most third downs have been short. Which really gives you the option to do almost anything.

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1 hour ago, bhougland said:

still making excuses for Mariota and it has been 5 years!!!!

  Sound familiar?

Yeah

 

Except it hasnt been 5 Years

 

I am a bigger fan than others for JB

 

But......  I TRULY dont know what we have there.... nor does anyone else

 

It will become known soon enough

 

I am hopeful

 

But... we will all see

 

 

 

 

 

At this point the weekly / Daily beating of JB is kinda like beating a dead horse..........

 

Guess what.... he is our QB, this week, and next week, and the week after

 

 

It will be what it will be

 

Relax and enjoy the season

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52 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Not sure how PFF comes up with this. It must have to do with efficiency.

 

 

I too would like to know what they're basing this on.  But it's nice to know there's a metric that matches what I personally am seeing on the field.

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3 hours ago, MPStack said:

 

Are you serious? He’s started a full season,

And that's enough to make someone a veteran to you?

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15 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

I too would like to know what they're basing this on.  But it's nice to know there's a metric that matches what I personally am seeing on the field.

My guess is it is measured on things like third  down efficiency and redzone efficiency. We have been top notch there. I mean in the chargers game we got in scoring position almost every time. The titans wasn’t bad but we had a lull in the third quarter. As much as people want to complain about JB we have drove the field. Just by running and not by throwing. We haven’t had that many third and longs.

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If Brissett starts having 50% accuracy when having to throw 30 to 35 times then I will be concerned. Right now he is doing what the game plan calls for. He isn’t throwing enough to really know anything.

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9 hours ago, ClaytonColt said:

Regardless of how long players have played together that looks a disappointing play. The two options are in his same line of sight, they've got the same operation and hes chosen to go to the safer, shorter option. On that occasion it's nothing to do with the play call, the defense, the game situation or anything like that. It's simply an opportunity to gain significant extra yards from a simple read.

 

The comparison with Luck is unfair but it's a fair reflection of where Brissett needs to improve to get his YPA and game yards up to a reasonable level.

the next quarterback who has zero plays that can be nitpicked as  lost opportunities will be the very first.

 

I am very afraid of this  exact mentality, that the fans will put Manning and Luck on a pedestal, and any mistake Brissett makes will be met with "Peyton or Andrew make that" whether there's any actual truth to it or not.

 

Believe it or not Peyton and Andrew occasionally missed deep passes and made non-optimal plays.   

 

Don't know why that's the standard you're holding a guy who's clearly learning on the job to anyway.

 

I'd love to see Brissett shock the world and become elite too, but that's a process that is going to take years.  For now, I'll settle happily for a guy who puts the team in a position to win.  And from that standpoitn, so far so excellent, even if the YPG is lagging a bit he's making the key plays he absoluely needs to make.

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