Most over rated Colt is??

[shasta519]

9 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

4 wins on a really bad roster... so yes, we do have sample of him winning games. Also, last weeks loss was on anybody but him. The passer rating also goes to that god awful roster that led him to be sacked 53 times. His one game behind a great o-line led to a no interception, high percentage passing, 120 rated game in which he could have thrown for 300 plus had we not run the ball for 200 yards. We can have this conversation at the end of the season and compare the "plenty of bad qb's"... my guess is he stands out from the long list of those quarterbacks. Like a sore thumb

 

We'll see. 

 

Your sample size is really one game then...that they didn't actually win.

 

I agree it's a conversation best left for after the season...which is why I questioned that statement. You said we have a sample size of JB winning games AND playing well...I don't see how we do. We have one solid opening game this year...and then 2017. I think 2017 is either part of the sample size or there isn't one...and you can't just include the 4 wins (which came against equally bad/worse teams) while disregard everything else (like overall performance).

 

 

 

 

[shasta519]

10 hours ago, GoatBeard said:

 

I think his numbers could go way, way down. Like to the point where he is a big disappointment and reverts to the unfocused, overly emotional player he was in Detroit, and is looking for a new home next year. I'm not sure hes found a home yet. He jokingly made a comment a few weeks back that he thinks him and Jack were both just buying the Colts time until Mo Alie Cox get a little more experience. But I sensed a little jealousy and insincerity in his tone. Just a feeling I have with him.

 

I always felt Lions fans were more than justified in their disappointment of his play. I dont feel like he got a bad rap necessarily. He consistently let them down in big moments, and he is too talented to do that. And we have seen a little of that here as well. Hes just made more plays than he did there, and that's cures all ills.

 

Is that because he has improved? Or was it more due to the presence of Andrew Luck? 

 

And this year, he has a new set of challenges beyond losing his best friend.

 

1. He wont get as many opportunities because of his poor blocking. Alie Cox is someone the Colts see as a long term solution at the TE position and is absolutely ascending, perhaps already surpassing Ebron. I believe they see him as having the potential to be a top TE in the league. And Jack Doyle is just solid and is such a good blocker its gonna be tough for Ebron to get any snaps on early downs.

 

2. There are just more weapons now, even with the loss of Funchess, and outside of the talented TE group. You got two young receivers in Cain and Campbell, who both have a lot to offer. And then you have two young RBs, both looking to increase their roles in Mack and Hines. It becomes a snap count issue. If we go more 4 receiver sets, it really puts a dent in TE snaps. I could see a lot of 3rd and long sets with Mack in the backfield, Hilton, Cain, Campbell and Hines as receivers, which is a lot of speed on the field. So, where does he fit in now?

 

3. Hes a bit of a DIVA. I am 100% anti DIVA. I think they rarely pay off to the point where they are worth it, and I dont think you need them. We have a great group of young guys, from a character standpoint. And humble guys usually dont like DIVAs. That's why they must produce, or they almost always become a locker room problem. If there's no pay off, it usually becomes an issue. It doesnt make him a bad guy, but I think some of the comraderie you see is because he has produced so far. What happens if he has a disappointing year? Is referring to himself in the third person as cute? No.

 

I don't disagree with what you are saying about Ebron. I am not sure what this year will look like...but I have a feeling we will be glad they didn't give him a big extension before the year (which some people wanted to do...for some strange reason).

 

But that 3rd and long personnel group...woof. You have a RB that offers little in the passing game (Mack) and another RB who gets like 6 yards/catch. I don't see how Ebron isn't on the field in that scenario...no reason to have both Mack and Hines out there (and I honestly wouldn't want either one if I had better options...which is why the Ware injury was such a bummer).

[shasta519]

8 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I am not big on stats.   Against 2 back to back top tier offences......Leonard has really under whelmed.  U can throw stats and awards at me all day, but watch the tape.  We played some pretty bad offenses last year.  I said before the season began that I rated this D after the KC beat down.  They played the Chargers and looked below average again. U want to go with stats then Leonard is all pro when he plays qb challenged teams.  When he plays top tier offences, he looks below average.  He cant get off blocks and players r wide open underneath.  I hope he has a great game against the Titans and  I expect it. I think by the end of the year we will definitely know who are our keepers on D. Leonard has cult status on this board and I just dont think he is a top tier lb....not yet anyways.

 

The Colts spent a lot of time and resources on fixing the pass coverage woes of the LB and S group...and Sunday was not promising from that standpoint (but thankfully it's early).

 

I don't know if it's scheme or talent...or both...but if you can't defend TEs and RBs catching the ball...you aren't going to be a good defense...or at least good enough to beat top tier teams.

 

I do agree that last year's schedule inflated the perception of this defense. The Colts played almost no top offenses...and lots of poor ones. NE was the only legit top 10 offense (the PHI game was rain-soaked and was Wentz's first game off injury without Alshon IIRC). 

 

[WoolMagnet]

16 hours ago, DEColtsLover36 said:

The title of the thread is “ Most over rated Colt is??”

Luck is not a Colt.

Really?

When did you join the party pooper club?

[WoolMagnet]

16 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

then you obviously cant read. this place and reddit are unbelievable with the over hyping after one game.

A piece of advice.

Ignore the nitwits.

[shasta519]

4 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Pretty sure his evaluation on qbs is better than most.   He hasn't had a top five pick to get a good one.    If Kelly was great,   he would still be there

 

Also.  If everyone knew Peyton was going to be good after the year off, why weren't more teams interested?  Why did Irsay cut him?     Elway is a far better talent evaluator than anyone here

 

I have no doubt Elway is a better QB talent evaluator than people here...but vs. his peers? Osweiler, Siemian, Lynch...giving $25M gtd to Case Keenum...those moves collectively would seem to suggest his evaluation is not better than most...and maybe just bad (relatively speaking). Granted none of those are top 5 picks...but he did trade up in the 1st round to get Lynch and Osweiler was a 2nd round pick. I like Lock more than that anyone in that group...so we will see how that turns out.

 

As for Manning...there were several teams were interested...like nearly 1/3 of the league. At least 9 teams reached out to him (DEN, AZ, SEA, TEN, WAS, MIA, NYJ, PHI, SF)...and Manning narrowed it down and heard in-person pitches from 4 of them (DEN, AZ, MIA and TEN)...and ultimately chose DEN over AZ and TEN. It was a whole thing that went on for a few weeks.

 

Irsay did release Manning from his contract...but (IMO) either Manning (or likely both he and Irsay) engineered it as a possibility when Manning signed his contract the year before...which contained a poison pill that ultimately saw him get released. 

 

 

[rock8591]

Chad Kelly by far.

 

He's one brush away from cleaning toilets in prison for the next few years of his life ala Ryan Leaf.

[Coffeedrinker]

On 9/14/2019 at 8:08 AM, bhougland said:

 

No, I am basing it on his last 4 year kicking percentage. He is a middling kick, in the bottom half of the league.

 

So, by your logic he is not overrated because he was once the best.  Sorry, but father time always catches up with a player, even the best.

His last 4 years has has an 87.4% average which would put him in the top 10-15 for any year and a top 5 for the cummulative over a 4 year span.

 

You can think he's over-rated all you want, but the reasopn you stated here is just false.

[Coffeedrinker]

13 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Pretty sure his evaluation on qbs is better than most.   He hasn't had a top five pick to get a good one.    If Kelly was great,   he would still be there

 

Also.  If everyone knew Peyton was going to be good after the year off, why weren't more teams interested?  Why did Irsay cut him?     Elway is a far better talent evaluator than anyone here

There were a lot of teams interested in Manning.

 

We will never know the full story but I would bet it wasn't so much that Irsay cut him that Manning did not want to be part of a rebuilding effort.  It could also be that Manning met Grigson and asked to be released.

 

Elway is a good talent evaluator... his track record with QBs has been less than stellar.  Pretty poor actually.

[DEColtsLover36]

8 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

Really?

When did you join the party pooper club?

Sorry 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

For the person that said Doyle was overrated.

 

 

[a06cc]

Medical Training Staff. We were 31th in the league when it came it injuries. People have brought this up for years. I was going to start a thread. Does anyone else seem concerned?

[ColtStrong2013]

11 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

Your sample size is really one game then...that they didn't actually win.

 

I agree it's a conversation best left for after the season...which is why I questioned that statement. You said we have a sample size of JB winning games AND playing well...I don't see how we do. We have one solid opening game this year...and then 2017. I think 2017 is either part of the sample size or there isn't one...and you can't just include the 4 wins (which came against equally bad/worse teams) while disregard everything else (like overall performance).

 

 

 

 

 

By very definition, it's a sample... and comparatively speaking, a much greater sample. You are picking him apart for no good reason. We have sample of him performing well. In 2017, we lost 7 of the 11 losses that he he started by a touchdown or less (4 of them 4 points or less). Again, that was with an historically bad offensive line, very few weapons offensively, and an inept coaching staff. You denying that is a good enough sample for him to deserve this starting position is laughable. 

[a06cc]

14 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

By very definition, it's a sample... and comparatively speaking, a much greater sample. You are picking him apart for no good reason. We have sample of him performing well. In 2017, we lost 7 of the 11 losses that he he started by a touchdown or less (4 of them 4 points or less). Again, that was with an historically bad offensive line, very few weapons offensively, and an inept coaching staff. You denying that is a good enough sample for him to deserve this starting position is laughable. 

I excluding the Rams game the season in which we were blown out. I couldn’t agree more. J.B. kept us in  some of this games. He now has a better roster so only time will tell. 

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

On 9/14/2019 at 1:35 AM, Moosejawcolt said:

Who do u think is the most over rated colt and what highly rated player, based on this forums rating, will lose his starting position?

My choice...Leonard.  I will get killed for this hahah!!!

 

A V  especially if he repeats last weeks performance 18 was the Sheriff A V looked like the guy who could'nt shoot straight ; 

[ColtStrong2013]

11 minutes ago, a06cc said:

I excluding the Rams game the season in which we were blown out. I couldn’t agree more. J.B. kept us in  some of this games. He now has a better roster so only time will tell. 

 

He's a game manager. He's not Andrew Luck that can pull a game out his butt. He managed those games pretty damn efficiently for what he had to work with. And then you see what he does last week with a competent coaching staff and offense. 

 

I hope it continues. It may not... but to say we don't have sample of him performing is asinine. 

[TheNextGM]

Vinny.. although he misses another kick today and he might not be a Colt for long.

[GoColts8818]

3 minutes ago, TheNextGM said:

Vinny.. although he misses another kick today and he might not be a Colt for long.

He’s not overrated.  He’s without question the greatest kicker of all time.  Still we might very well be watching the end of his career right now, Father Time is undefeated.  That’s not overrated, it’s the end of ones career.  It’s like saying Peyton Manning was overrated because of the last season of his career.

[il vecchio]

3 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

He’s not overrated.  He’s without question the greatest kicker of all time.  Still we might very well be watching the end of his career right now, Father Time is undefeated.  That’s not overrated, it’s the end of ones career.  It’s like saying Peyton Manning was overrated because of the last season of his career.

 

Actually, it is overrated, if Vinatieri stays now because of what he's done in the past.  He'd be staying because of his reputation, or "rating", if you will.

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, il vecchio said:

 

Actually, it is overrated, if Vinatieri stays now because of what he's done in the past.  He'd be staying because of his reputation, or "rating", if you will.

Overrated is hyping someone for no reason or reason they don’t deserve.  People aren’t hyping Adam at this point.  They are extremely concerned from him or ready to move on from him.

[jvan1973]

Chad Kelly is the correct answer

[Nickster]

Leonard.  Can’t cover at all.  

[Dogg63]

14 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Leonard.  Can’t cover at all.  

Excellent point. Oh, and nice statistical underpinning for that conclusion.

 

This week Leonard, the bum, led the team with 10 tackles (six solo) and added 1.0 sack and 1.0 tackle for loss. Last week the complete loser tied for the team lead (with Walker) with seven tackles and Leonard added one pass defensed.

 

We seriously need to look for a new LB. Not.

[mahagga73]

6 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

He’s not overrated.  He’s without question the greatest kicker of all time.  Still we might very well be watching the end of his career right now, Father Time is undefeated.  That’s not overrated, it’s the end of ones career.  It’s like saying Peyton Manning was overrated because of the last season of his career.

Without question ? Morten Anderson was up there but didn't get to kick in big games because of his team.  

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, mahagga73 said:

Without question ? Morten Anderson was up there but didn't get to kick in big games because of his team.  

Yes, anyone who isn’t trying to be a contrarian will tell you Adam is the best kicker of all time.  Not only does he have the records he has the clutch kicks too in the biggest or situations too. 

[mahagga73]

4 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Yes, anyone who isn’t trying to be a contrarian will tell you Adam is the best kicker of all time.  Not only does he have the records he has the clutch kicks too in the biggest or situations too. 

Did you even read the last part of my post ? Adam hasn't been the best kicker in the league for awhile. Not saying he isn't,  but it isn't as clear cut as a lot of people would have you believe.  He just passed Morten in FG like a year ago finally. 

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, mahagga73 said:

Did you even read the last part of my post ? 

I did.  The fact Adam did only adds to his greatness.  Its not Adams fault Anderson didn’t get to big game.  Also Adam still broke Anderson’s records if you take the big games out of it.

[mahagga73]

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I did.  The fact Adam did only adds to his greatness.  Its not Adams fault Anderson didn’t get to big game.  Also Adam still broke Anderson’s records if you take the big games out of it.

Morten also made all -pro  more times. He was unquestionably the best back in his day.   7 to 3, way more pro bowl nods. 

[GoColts8818]

Just now, mahagga73 said:

Morten also made all -pro  more times. He was unquestionably the best back in his day.  

And Adam came along and was better.  This isn’t really questioned by anyone except those that are trying to be a contrarian.  That’s nothing against Anderson as he was great too.

[mahagga73]

3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

And Adam came along and was better.  This isn’t really questioned by anyone except those that are trying to be a contrarian.  That’s nothing against Anderson as he was great too.

I don't care what the masses say.  I'm stating fact, accept or dont . Recency bias has everybody in the modern era as better than the previous. Morten , by all pro , pro bowl , whatever , was more decorated.  Just never kicked in the postseason like adam. 

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, mahagga73 said:

I don't care what the masses say.  I'm stating fact, accept or dont . Recency bias has everybody in the modern era as better than the previous. 

Adam and Anderson were both in the NFL at the same time.  This isn’t comparing Berry to Jerry Rice.  

 

I am stating fact too, people who cover this game call Adam the greatest of all time and they saw Anderson too.  Not just Colts fans.  If you want to disagree then fine.

[mahagga73]

14 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Adam and Anderson were both in the NFL at the same time.  This isn’t comparing Berry to Jerry Rice.  

 

I am stating fact too, people who cover this game call Adam the greatest of all time and they saw Anderson too.  Not just Colts fans.  If you want to disagree then fine.

You care what sportswriters say ? Lol. That  is the absolute last opinion I would care what.  They dont know any better than anybody else.  Lol. Half of them don't know their , well , you know. 

[Moosejawcolt]

2 hours ago, Dogg63 said:

Excellent point. Oh, and nice statistical underpinning for that conclusion.

 

This week Leonard, the bum, led the team with 10 tackles (six solo) and added 1.0 sack and 1.0 tackle for loss. Last week the complete loser tied for the team lead (with Walker) with seven tackles and Leonard added one pass defensed.

 

We seriously need to look for a new LB. Not.

Watch the game film.  Leonard is not having a good  year and Walker is under whelming.  They r getting killed against the pass.  Dont get hung up on his all pro and tackling stats from last year.  It was funny but when they drafted the 2 line backers in this years draft,  everyone thought they were brought in to push Walker.  I dont think the coaching staff is as high on Leonard as this forum is.

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, mahagga73 said:

You care what sportswriters say ? Lol. That  is the absolute last opinion I would care what.  They dont know any better than anybody else.  Lol. Half of them don't know their , well , you know. 

Who do you think votes players into the hall of fame?  Man,   you are having a weekend of bad takes 

[Moosejawcolt]

20 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Watch the game film.  Leonard is not having a good  year and Walker is under whelming.  They r getting killed against the pass.  Dont get hung up on his all pro and tackling stats from last year.  It was funny but when they drafted the 2 line backers in this years draft,  everyone thought they were brought in to push Walker.  I dont think the coaching staff is as high on Leonard as this forum is.

Laugh at me if u wish.  We shall c

[John Waylon]

Winner: Mike Hart

 

Runner up: Roy Hall

 

Honorable Mention: Tim Fugger

[Nickster]

3 hours ago, Dogg63 said:

Excellent point. Oh, and nice statistical underpinning for that conclusion.

 

This week Leonard, the bum, led the team with 10 tackles (six solo) and added 1.0 sack and 1.0 tackle for loss. Last week the complete loser tied for the team lead (with Walker) with seven tackles and Leonard added one pass defensed.

 

We seriously need to look for a new LB. Not.

 

Didnt say he was trash but he’s overrated.  He can’t cover.  The MLB is always lead the team in tackles.  There are saber like stats for coverage and DL doesn’t stack up well there.

[JMichael557]

Who is not being covered? TN has very little yards in passing.  Including their backs or TEs. 

[bestQBever]

Clayton Geathers is the most overrated Colt to me. I rarely see him making plays and he makes a lot of mistakes.

[colt18]

On 9/14/2019 at 2:16 PM, GoatBeard said:

 

I think his numbers could go way, way down. Like to the point where he is a big disappointment and reverts to the unfocused, overly emotional player he was in Detroit, and is looking for a new home next year. I'm not sure hes found a home yet. He jokingly made a comment a few weeks back that he thinks him and Jack were both just buying the Colts time until Mo Alie Cox get a little more experience. But I sensed a little jealousy and insincerity in his tone. Just a feeling I have with him.

 

I always felt Lions fans were more than justified in their disappointment of his play. I dont feel like he got a bad rap necessarily. He consistently let them down in big moments, and he is too talented to do that. And we have seen a little of that here as well. Hes just made more plays than he did there, and that's cures all ills.

 

Is that because he has improved? Or was it more due to the presence of Andrew Luck? 

 

And this year, he has a new set of challenges beyond losing his best friend.

 

1. He wont get as many opportunities because of his poor blocking. Alie Cox is someone the Colts see as a long term solution at the TE position and is absolutely ascending, perhaps already surpassing Ebron. I believe they see him as having the potential to be a top TE in the league. And Jack Doyle is just solid and is such a good blocker its gonna be tough for Ebron to get any snaps on early downs.

 

2. There are just more weapons now, even with the loss of Funchess, and outside of the talented TE group. You got two young receivers in Cain and Campbell, who both have a lot to offer. And then you have two young RBs, both looking to increase their roles in Mack and Hines. It becomes a snap count issue. If we go more 4 receiver sets, it really puts a dent in TE snaps. I could see a lot of 3rd and long sets with Mack in the backfield, Hilton, Cain, Campbell and Hines as receivers, which is a lot of speed on the field. So, where does he fit in now?

 

3. Hes a bit of a DIVA. I am 100% anti DIVA. I think they rarely pay off to the point where they are worth it, and I dont think you need them. We have a great group of young guys, from a character standpoint. And humble guys usually dont like DIVAs. That's why they must produce, or they almost always become a locker room problem. If there's no pay off, it usually becomes an issue. It doesnt make him a bad guy, but I think some of the comraderie you see is because he has produced so far. What happens if he has a disappointing year? Is referring to himself in the third person as cute? No.

 

This is such a ridiculous post, lol

 

Allie Cox is nowhere near the receiving threat the Ebron is. Dude hurdled someone in the open field today...dude is a top option in this offense only after Hilton. He may have a bit of an outspoken personality but that has not clashed with the locker room nor his on field performance so it's a very irrelevant point. 

 

 

Anyways, I'd have to go with Geathers. He makes too many mistakes and is injury prone.