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Adam Vinatieri (Merge)

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2 minutes ago, FanFromtheWasteland said:

There is no probably. It was why it was a loss. 7 points. Do you actually grasp that or are you going to wear blue glasses

 

Is this really the argument you want to have? 

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Adam was horrible.  Hopefully he can redeem himself, but maybe he has reached his limit. 

He cost us the game.

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Just now, FanFromtheWasteland said:

So are you saying that one of those kicks made, we still lose

Are you saying without the PI we still lose?

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1 minute ago, FanFromtheWasteland said:

So are you saying that one of those kicks made, we still lose

 

I didn't say that. But do you recognize that changing one play in a game probably changes the flow of the game moving forward? 

 

For example, if AV makes that last kick, it's 24-19. Let's say the Colts get the ball back and still go down for a TD. Don't you think the Chargers use their timeouts differently and try to get the ball back sooner? Maybe with another 60 seconds on the clock, they can move the ball into FG range in regulation.

 

Those were killers misses. I'm not trying to shield AV from any criticism for this game. He was the single biggest reason for the loss. Not the only reason, though. And even if he makes every kick, it probably changes the flow of the game. 

 

So me saying his misses were "probably" the difference in the game is just me leaving room for the unknown. Not me being a homer.

 

Maybe stop lashing out at other Colts fans in your anger. 

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21 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

I didn't nitpick anything.   I said vinny didn't single handedly lose the game.  

I didn't follow you two's argument, nor care.

 

Again, he made a general statement about nitpicking, and implied that he observed it in the past and how it was a tactic, which I agreed.  Whether or not his general statement was relevant or not to the specific argument you guys were having tonight was not my point.  And I applied it even more generally by not singling you out.

 

And I know the point you've been making about Vinny.  I agree.

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1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I didn't say that. But do you recognize that changing one play in a game probably changes the flow of the game moving forward? 

 

For example, if AV makes that last kick, it's 24-19. Let's say the Colts get the ball back and still go down for a TD. Don't you think the Chargers use their timeouts differently and try to get the ball back sooner? Maybe with another 60 seconds on the clock, they can move the ball into FG range in regulation.

 

Those were killers misses. I'm not trying to shield AV from any criticism for this game. He was the single biggest reason for the loss. Not the only reason, though. And even if he makes every kick, it probably changes the flow of the game. 

 

So me saying his misses were "probably" the difference in the game is just me leaving room for the unknown. Not me being a homer.

 

Maybe stop lashing out at other Colts fans in your anger. 

 

 

I think the team showed a lot of grit today despite the misses by Vinny.  I don't see him being cut, but I would not be shocked if he retires tomorrow.

 

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Maybe you need to understand that this is not anger this is rational analysis. There is no way the game would have been played diffetent if he makes the extra point.  There is no way the game would have been played diffetent if he makes the feild goal at the end of the half. We were still losing. He messed up 3 TIMES cost us 7 points. Did JB throw 3 ints? That would have been a discussion now wouldn't it. Fault is where it is deserved. No such thing as participation trophies

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Just now, FanFromtheWasteland said:

Maybe you need to understand that this is not anger this is rational analysis. There is no way the game would have been played diffetent if he makes the extra point.  There is no way the game would have been played diffetent if he makes the feild goal at the end of the half. We were still losing. He messed up 3 TIMES cost us 7 points. Did JB throw 3 ints? That would have been a discussion now wouldn't it. Fault is where it is deserved. No such thing as participation trophies

What would the situation have been without the PI on the chargers fg that led to a td?  Plenty of fault to go around.   

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I saw him starting to go down hill last year. When I mentioned it here I was castigated and berated as though I had criticized the Lord God !! Now we see how far he has fallen. He cost us this game ! he had THREE chances to win the game for us!  he failed every time! It is time to find a new kicker! Missing two field goals and a simple point-after in one game is something you would expect from a first year rookie !! Vinatieri was a giant in the past, but he is PAST HIS PRIME, and will continue to let us down !! 

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1 minute ago, FanFromtheWasteland said:

Maybe you need to understand that this is not anger this is rational analysis. There is no way the game would have been played diffetent if he makes the extra point.  There is no way the game would have been played diffetent if he makes the feild goal at the end of the half. We were still losing. He messed up 3 TIMES cost us 7 points. Did JB throw 3 ints? That would have been a discussion now wouldn't it. Fault is where it is deserved. No such thing as participation trophies

 

Do you think it's irrational for me to use the word "probably"? 

 

And you don't know how the game changes if the Colts are leading in the second half, so stop acting like you do.

 

Fault is absolutely where it's deserved. AV, mostly. But not just AV. 

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7 minutes ago, ojsglove said:

 

 

I think the team showed a lot of grit today despite the misses by Vinny.  I don't see him being cut, but I would not be shocked if he retires tomorrow.

 

 

Unless he's dealing with an injury or physical issue, he's not going anywhere right now. Before the game and before the third quarter, he was hitting from nearly 60. It's not like his leg is falling off. 

 

If he has another bad game, that might change. Realistically, it will probably take a stretch of bad kicking for him to move on, or for the team to make a change. Because again, he's had bad games before, but has always gotten back on track pretty quickly. If he doesn't bounce back next week, the tone will change. 

 

Also, I think the team knows they have a 46 year old kicker, and they're ready to adjust if he falls off a cliff over night. They aren't going to just keep running him out there if he can't do it anymore. 

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4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Also, I think the team knows they have a 46 year old kicker, and they're ready to adjust if he falls off a cliff over night. They aren't going to just keep running him out there if he can't do it anymore. 

 

Cody Parkey is available. We can bring him back.

 jonathan taylor thomas disney GIF

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4 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

 

Cody Parkey is available. We can bring him back.

 jonathan taylor thomas disney GIF

 

I'm pretty sure Cole Hedlund is still close by.

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2 hours ago, DougDew said:

Then any missed FG in any game where a team loses by less points than the amount of FG missed, like 2 pts sometimes, is the kickers fault for losing the game?

 

The way I see it.

 

That dropped punt is how we got the ball for him to miss one of the FGs we're complaining about, I think.

 

And we scored a two point conversion to offset the missed PAT

 

The defense failed to stop Rivers at anytime, until Rivers stopped himself by choosing to throw it late in the middle of the endzone.

 

And we actually lost the game by the D hardly challenging SD moving the ball on us in OT.

 

But it wasn't just one EP. He left 7 points off the board. That's huge. But don't want to blame him completely. Autrys flag on their FG turned into 7. JH being offsides on third down sack turned into points. And ebron should have caught the TD pass. But... It's still 7 points. 

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AV should be cut as soon as tomorrow. Dude is on the friggin wrong side of 40. WTH was Ballard thinking bringing him back?

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So we just gonna ignore the fact that Austin Ekeler made our defense look like a bunch of jabronis for a large part of the game?

 

 

tenor.gif?itemid=14110025

 

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Vinny cost the colts the game, pure and simple and I'm sure he'd be the first to admit it.  But the truth is it's one game, and the first game to boot.  The team was good enough to overcome all of it's mistakes, not just vinny's, and force overtime.  I think there are alot of positives to be had, let's not overreact.  Anything that becomes a chronic deficit to the team will be dealt with.  The people running this organization have proven that a measured approach will win the day.   McDaniels jilts them, they get reich.  Luck retires, jacoby did pretty well today, if vinny cant produce anymore they'll address it.  I guarantee a plan is already in the works that will pay adam the requisite respect and move on if need be.  Lets have some faith, they're not panicking and neither should we.  Would have been nice to steal one today but most of us had the chargers as an L anyway.  Next Sunday is almost here, on to Tenn.

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11 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

AV should be cut as soon as tomorrow. Dude is on the friggin wrong side of 40. WTH was Ballard thinking bringing him back?

The fact you think he should be cut makes me want him to stick around.   You are wrong about everything.   So I'm sure keeping him is the right move

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Adam has a history if starting slow but with his struggles at the end of last year I think it’s worth watching to see if Father Time has caught up to him.  Still this isn’t some rookie kicker who did this, you give a guy like Adam a few more chances to right the ship.  He’s done it in the past hopefully he does it again.  

 

The loss isn’t completely on his shoulders, this was not the Colts defense we were expecting to see, but without question he deserves blame tonight.  I think we all agree there.

 

I just think it would be a giant overreaction to run him out of town right this second, maybe I’ll be proven wrong but I hope I am not.

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20 minutes ago, Sumo63 said:

Vinny cost the colts the game, pure and simple and I'm sure he'd be the first to admit it.  But the truth is it's one game, and the first game to boot.  The team was good enough to overcome all of it's mistakes, not just vinny's, and force overtime.  I think there are alot of positives to be had, let's not overreact.  Anything that becomes a chronic deficit to the team will be dealt with.  The people running this organization have proven that a measured approach will win the day.   McDaniels jilts them, they get reich.  Luck retires, jacoby did pretty well today, if vinny cant produce anymore they'll address it.  I guarantee a plan is already in the works that will pay adam the requisite respect and move on if need be.  Lets have some faith, they're not panicking and neither should we.  Would have been nice to steal one today but most of us had the chargers as an L anyway.  Next Sunday is almost here, on to Tenn.

You could easily say that about Autry’s flag that turned a field goal into a touchdown, the bad tackling, the inability to get off the field on third down, especially third and long, or Ebron not making a clean catch on a perfect throw.  One guy alone didn’t cost this team the game just like if they had won it Mack alone wouldn’t have won it.

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33 minutes ago, Believe blue1306 said:

But it wasn't just one EP. He left 7 points off the board. That's huge. But don't want to blame him completely. Autrys flag on their FG turned into 7. JH being offsides on third down sack turned into points. And ebron should have caught the TD pass. But... It's still 7 points. 

Thats fair.  I think it’s perfectly fair to point out Adam had a terrible game and it’s worth keeping an eye on him.  I just draw that line at saying he alone cost the Colts the game or he needs to be cut right this second.  That’s too far in my opinion.

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Not to be a jerk but I was hoping he retired last year. He didn't look to hot at the end of the season. What is he trying to prove at this point? That he can play to 50?

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5 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think it’s worth watching to see if Father Time has caught up to him

 

I'm sure they have both eyes wide open when it comes to AV. He's gonna fall off one day, and no one will be surprised when it happens. I wouldn't be surprised if they try out a couple kickers this week. 

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1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I'm sure they have both eyes wide open when it comes to AV. He's gonna fall off one day, and no one will be surprised when it happens. I wouldn't be surprised if they try out a couple kickers this week. 

I am sure they do.  I trust the Colts here.  No reason not too.

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Nothing has changed in the 35 years the colts have been here.

 

We didn't lose that game because Peyton threw 6 ints.

 

We didn't lose that game because vanderjagt shanked that field goal

 

We didn't lose that game because vinni missed a PAT and 2 FG

 

Nothing but excuse after excuse after excuse

 

I really don't give a crap about a  participation trophy attitude

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Vinny isn't what he used to be, but let's be real....kickers apparently aren't easy to come by. He had a bad game, no doubt. All players have bad games, but kickers are on an island. 

 

Yeah, he missed some kicks last year. He still has range. I think he has earned the right to a bad game. 

 

Colts showed a lot of resolve tonight. Incredibly gutsy run call for the 2 Pt. Conv. I thought Jacoby manage the game extremely well. It was a great team effort. 

 

Let's rally around Adam.

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5 minutes ago, Detectacon said:

I wouldn’t expect him to say anything else.  With that said, they are going to watch tape and you better believe while they will admit Adam has to be better they are also going to say Autry and Houston can’t commit those penalties, the defense must tackle better, the defense has to get off the field on third down, Ebron has to make that catch.  Any of those things change the Colts win, even with the Adam misses.  Thats not excusing Adam it’s just saying it wasn’t just on one guy.  Still most players that have a day like Adam did are going to take the blame and not say hey the others screwed up too.

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12 minutes ago, FanFromtheWasteland said:

Nothing has changed in the 35 years the colts have been here.

 

We didn't lose that game because Peyton threw 6 ints.

 

We didn't lose that game because vanderjagt shanked that field goal

 

We didn't lose that game because vinni missed a PAT and 2 FG

 

Nothing but excuse after excuse after excuse

 

I really don't give a crap about a  participation trophy attitude

There is a big difference in saying Adam isn’t the only reason the Colts lost and making up excuses for Adam.  Adam’s performance wasn’t acceptable today.  Still there are a lot of other areas that contributed to the loss too that need to be addressed.

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15 minutes ago, FanFromtheWasteland said:

Nothing has changed in the 35 years the colts have been here.

 

We didn't lose that game because Peyton threw 6 ints.

 

We didn't lose that game because vanderjagt shanked that field goal

 

We didn't lose that game because vinni missed a PAT and 2 FG

 

Nothing but excuse after excuse after excuse

 

I really don't give a crap about a  participation trophy attitude

Triggered.  Lol. Relax Francis.   Nobody is saying Adam had nothing to do with the loss.   Only that he wasn't the only reason for the loss.   Settle down

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2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

You could easily say that about Autry’s flag that turned a field goal into a touchdown, the bad tackling, the inability to get off the field on third down, especially third and long, or Ebron not making a clean catch on a perfect throw.  One guy alone didn’t cost this team the game just like if they had won it Mack alone wouldn’t have won it.

Ok.......lol, you got me. Stone cold.  My larger point was that the team came back from all of their mistakes, as I said before, "not just vinny's" to force overtime.  And that the team is in good hands.  My lesser point is that I doubt Adam himself would pass the buck and not accept responsility for his role in the loss.   I'm not discounting the ebb and flow of the game.  Seven points left on the field by one unit, divided between three separate occasions, was the glaring weakness today.  All mistakes aside and all things being equal, that was likely the major contributing factor in the loss.   I think it's a reasonable argument and one I'll stand by.  On to Tennessee.

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1 minute ago, Sumo63 said:

Ok.......lol, you got me. Stone cold.  My larger point was that the team came back from all of their mistakes, as I said before, "not just vinny's" to force overtime.  And that the team is in good hands.  My lesser point is that I doubt Adam himself would pass the buck and not accept responsility for his role in the loss.   I'm not discounting the ebb and flow of the game.  Seven points left on the field by one unit, divided between three separate occasions, was the glaring weakness today.  All mistakes aside and all things being equal, that was likely the major contributing factor in the loss.   I think it's a reasonable argument and one I'll stand by.  On to Tennessee.

I am not going to disagree like I said Adam’s performance today was unacceptable.  I just don’t think he alone lost the game, there is a lot of blame to go around.  That’s all.

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2 hours ago, DougDew said:

The PAT flew like a fluke, and we converted 2 to make up for it (although Reich may have gone for 2 and the win on the last TD).   

 

He missed a 29 yarder, and it was with plenty of time left in the second half..  And I think the dropped punt is what got us in position for that FG anyway.  2 mistakes creating a wash.

 

But there was the horrible D play all game and the inability to stop Rivers, including the actual drive that won the game for them.

 

Two things can be true at the same time. Adam failed and didn’t do his job and neither did the defense. Problem is, Vinny straight up didn’t put points on the board when he and he alone could have done so. Not saying he’s a bum and I’m not necessarily saying we need to cut him but we can’t avoid stating the obvious just because of who he is. 

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And when the Colts miss the playoffs by 1 win im sure that this game won't cross the minds of any of the Kum ba yah posters that can't accept the fact that a player lost a game for the team

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4 minutes ago, FanFromtheWasteland said:

And when the Colts miss the playoffs by 1 win im sure that this game won't cross the minds of any of the Kum ba yah posters that can't accept the fact that a player lost a game for the team

I don’t think anyone is saying Adam doesn’t deserve to be criticized for his play today but as the poster above you said two things can be true at once and while Adam had an unacceptable game today others made costly mistakes as well and if you change any of those mistakes you change the out come of the game as well, so again it’s not as simple as looking at one guy and saying it’s all on him.  Very few things in football are and if the coaches did that then those other mistakes wouldn’t get addressed and they would continue to cost the team games all year. 

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I was very disappointed after his third miss at scoring for our team. Let’s see, a total of 7 points that did not make the score board. 

As for the rest of the team,

well done in the second half.

Carry on, Jacoby!

 

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