Adam Vinatieri (Merge)

[Mr.Debonair]

16 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

For what it’s worth McAfee disagrees.  Maybe rather than just dismissing him because he’s not saying what people who Adam gone want to hear it should be considered McAfee knows more than us about what he’s talking about here.

 

With that said, if that was the only kick Adam had missed this year this would be a non-issue.  It’s not so it is.  I stand by what I said yesterday, I think the Colts should look at other kickers and see if anyone better is out there.  It doesn’t sound like they are going to do that which Adam is the guy at least for now so regardless of how I feel about that move I want Adam to do well because he’s our kicker.  Do I trust him too at this point?  No.

 

And prior to the kick, Pat said Adam hadn’t been hitting the ball well. He looked just as unsure about the kick as we have become. Yes the entire operation may have been off but not ever operation is going to be perfect. It seems like now if something slightly off Adam’s chances go way down

[GoColts8818]

Just now, Mr.Debonair said:

And prior to the kick, Pat said Adam hadn’t been hitting the ball well. He looked just as unsure about the kick as we have become. Yes the entire operation may have been off but not ever operation is going to be perfect. It seems like now if something slightly off Adam’s chances go way down

Which is why I think Pat is being straight here.  If he was just out to cover Adam’s backside he wouldn’t have said that before the kick.

[bluebombers87]

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Which is why I think Pat is being straight here.  If he was just out to cover Adam’s backside he wouldn’t have said that before the kick.

Very well may be. I remember seeing Adams face prior to the kick and not seeing the business as usual look he normally has. I have no idea what he looks like nervous (obviously) so I can’t say it was that but he looked different.

[southwest1]

On 9/9/2019 at 6:24 AM, lollygagger8 said:

I hate to say it, but it might be time for Vinny to hang em up.

 

 

Hey there Lolly, I'm gonna keep it 100 with ya. Originally, when I read this post from you, I blew it off because it was early in the season & I figured it was a rare mishap. But, when I saw that kick on Sunday vs. the Steelers & it wasn't even close--I said to myself...Uh oh, I can't ignore the elephant in the room anymore. Adam's golden foot has lost it's juice. This wasn't a laces problem. It's a body is betraying you problem. Sigh. That miss was really bad. Love Adam & all, but we need a new place kicker. I can't lie to myself anymore. Is Robbie Gold or Justin Tucker a free agent soon? 

 

Yeah, I know I sound cold & heartless. Sorry, but INDY has a void here that can't be downplayed anymore. I will always revere you Adam, but the NFL sunset is near & approaching fast I'm afraid. 

 

It takes guts to be ahead of the curve & you were right Lolly. Facts are facts. 

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, bluebombers87 said:

Very well may be. I remember seeing Adams face prior to the kick and not seeing the business as usual look he normally has. I have no idea what he looks like nervous (obviously) so I can’t say it was that but he looked different.

I have no doubt his struggles are in his head right now.  How could they not be?

[bluebombers87]

Just now, GoColts8818 said:

I have no doubt his struggles are in his head right now.  How could they not be?

He’s never had this happen before. The ego is a tricky thing.

[southwest1]

On 11/3/2019 at 3:43 PM, jvan1973 said:

This guy knows about kicking and holding.   He called it immediately

Thanks for posting this. The strange thing about watching this clip is we all know that Adam might miss a FG early in the game, but when the money is on the line & all the marbles are on the table Adam usually seals the deal late. I was stunned & just sat there in silence for what felt like an eternity. I feel horrible for Adam. I truly do. Jacoby goes down & then a Mr. V wide miss. Last thing I expected to see second hand. 

 

Okay, maybe the laces out messed with Adam's mojo & all. I just thought he would somehow self correct & split the sticks in the end. This is the hardest part of being a professional: Maintaining your composure in the face of adversity & coming face to face with a superb athlete's mortality. 

 

Thanks for all your clutch yrs in the league Adam. None of this diminishes your HOF greatness sir. Always remember that Adam. 

[southwest1]

On 11/3/2019 at 9:01 PM, open window said:

I played soccer once, maybe I’m the answer 

 Comic relief during volatile situations always comes in handy down the stretch doesn't it? Nice touch. 

 

Now, don't get it twisted folks. Adam will always be beloved in INDY. Humor always reduces the sting of tense circumstances. Works for me anyway. Life goes on...

[ScotColt]

10 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

I think this guy knows a bit about kicking and holding and the effects of different things

 

 

 

 

 

On this particular kick - yes the laces were facing vinny, but that kick was wild even so. But what about all the other kicks he has missed? Including XP's... 

 

6 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Yeah. im gonna take guys that have been doing it in the NFL's opinion over a guy that kicks a much different ball and may never kick an NFL ball.   Vinny is our kicker,   they will figure it out 

 

When will they figure it out? We are halfway through the season and it's not lookin great in the kicking department to say the least. It's easy enough to just nod and agree with everything the coaches and front office say but from what I can see their 'confidence' is rather delusional.

 

We need to be realistic and face facts... If anyone has full confidence in our kicking game you gotta be kidding yourself. Those of us who are disappointed with Vinny and co. just want to see a player do his job and for the Colts to win. That's all.

[coltsfeva]

    If it was a matter of distance, I would agree his leg is shot and needs to retire. But this is not the case. For whatever reason, it’s a confidence issue, coupled with inefficient play of his teammates.

     Totally correctable. But our culture calls for something “new”. If anybody thinks we’re going to pick up “Justin Tucker”, they are sadly mistaken. 
     

[Myles]

10 hours ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Your point is well taken by those who are willing to hear it. Others not so much, just because it’s Adam. AV didn’t miss that cuz  the laces were facing him

I agree.   Laces don't affect the kick that much.   That ball was shanked.  Heck, I think it went off the screen.   He just messed up, again.

[Myles]

31 minutes ago, coltsfeva said:

    If it was a matter of distance, I would agree his leg is shot and needs to retire. But this is not the case. For whatever reason, it’s a confidence issue, coupled with inefficient play of his teammates.

     Totally correctable. But our culture calls for something “new”. If anybody thinks we’re going to pick up “Justin Tucker”, they are sadly mistaken. 
     

I think age plays a role as well.   Your body doesn't adjust as quick as it used to.   Muscle memory slows.

[lollygagger8]

10 hours ago, southwest1 said:

Hey there Lolly, I'm gonna keep it 100 with ya. Originally, when I read this post from you, I blew it off because it was early in the season & I figured it was a rare mishap. But, when I saw that kick on Sunday vs. the Steelers & it wasn't even close--I said to myself...Uh oh, I can't ignore the elephant in the room anymore. Adam's golden foot has lost it's juice. This wasn't a laces problem. It's a body is betraying you problem. Sigh. That miss was really bad. Love Adam & all, but we need a new place kicker. I can't lie to myself anymore. Is Robbie Gold or Justin Tucker a free agent soon? 

 

Yeah, I know I sound cold & heartless. Sorry, but INDY has a void here that can't be downplayed anymore. I will always revere you Adam, but the NFL sunset is near & approaching fast I'm afraid. 

 

It takes guts to be ahead of the curve & you were right Lolly. Facts are facts. 

 

Agree 100% brother! 

 

I hate to type that, and have mad respect for the guy, but they can't re-sign him next year.

[bhougland]

No one like the thought of booing one of the greatest kickers of all time, and after the Andrew Luck incident the media will be all over it if the fans do.  However, booing is one way the fan base can directly let management know they are not satisfied with decisions being made, whether that be bad calls (coaching or ref), leaving a player on the field that doesn't deserve to be, general ineptitude of franchise, etc.  In Andrews case it think it was shock mixed with the let down of the expectations that we had for the next 5 -7 years.

 

In Vinny's case it will have more to do with the coaches and GM, who preach competition, to make no moves on getting it corrected.  Vinny has been on a slide for a couple of years now and while one of the greatest of all time, is no longer even close to the greatest at this time.  I feel bad for Vinny and the coaches because they are trying to take the high road, but the fans expect results (the NFL is a meritocracy after all).  I just have a feeling this is going to turn into another booing incident before the year is over.

 

How many lost games due to kicking is sufficient because Vinny was amazing for most of his career?  Does anyone really think he is still a clutch kicker?  If so, I have some swamp land in Florida to sell that will make you rich.

[WoolMagnet]

My opinion:

Fans are within their rights as a fan, however it is not what i would do.

  I am not a fan of booing.  They are trying.

Think of your boss and co-workers booing you when you enter the workplace after not meeting your quotas.  I just dont like negative type motivation.  It rarely works.'

  We have such a fine group of men on this team that i wouldnt want some fan frustration to be misconstrued as total disgust with this team.  Its a GOOD team, overachieving, imo.

 

  But hey, if you pay for a ticket, food, drink, jersey, etc i guess you have the right to voice your displeasure, just not my style.

 

We have talented people monitoring and looking for answers to the issues, such as kicking.  I trust they know what they are doing.  Better than any of us, i would think. Thats good enough for me.

 

The main question is whether Vinny can "straighten it out"  and be as good or better than the question marks currently available.   There is a reason THEY are available.  Many teams had kicking issues this year and STILL these guys are available.  I'm really not sure what decision would work out better.  No one does.

[Mr.Debonair]

Don't boo Vinny. Boo Ballard for not recognizing the decline or Reich for the blind faith.

[FRW]

Fans pay a lot of money for their seats, and the last I looked we still had a modicum of free speech in this country (at least if you're not on a college campus), so yes they do have that right. Is it in good taste? That's a bigger issue. I thought booing Luck was tacky. He was young man who, through the ineptness of management and coaches, had been brutalized during his time here and was tired of being hurt. I get it. But in AV's case we're talking something totally different. He is living on his history. On a team where competition is the operative word in the front office, they are ignoring performance that would get any other kicker a quick exit. He is presently hitting 70.6% of his FG and just 74.3% of PATs. He has been directly responsible for two AFC losses that may come back to haunt us as tie breakers. I know there are not many decent kickers wandering the streets right now, but surely we can find one who can make 80% of their PATs. If he had just made those in LA and Pitts we would be 7-1 right now without the missed FGs. Ultimately it's not fair to the fans or most importantly the other players who livelihood depends on winning and making the playoffs. So boo all you want if he continues to miss. It's a sad way for the GOAT to end his career, but like an old boxer who wants to die in the ring, AV made the choice to come back one year too many. So now he gets to face the consequences of that decision.

[ProblChld32]

21 minutes ago, bhougland said:

No one like the thought of booing one of the greatest kickers of all time, and after the Andrew Luck incident the media will be all over it if the fans do.  However, booing is one way the fan base can directly let management know they are not satisfied with decisions being made, whether that be bad calls (coaching or ref), leaving a player on the field that doesn't deserve to be, general ineptitude of franchise, etc.  In Andrews case it think it was shock mixed with the let down of the expectations that we had for the next 5 -7 years.

 

In Vinny's case it will have more to do with the coaches and GM, who preach competition, to make no moves on getting it corrected.  Vinny has been on a slide for a couple of years now and while one of the greatest of all time, is no longer even close to the greatest at this time.  I feel bad for Vinny and the coaches because they are trying to take the high road, but the fans expect results (the NFL is a meritocracy after all).  I just have a feeling this is going to turn into another booing incident before the year is over.

 

How many lost games due to kicking is sufficient because Vinny was amazing for most of his career?  Does anyone really think he is still a clutch kicker?  If so, I have some swamp land in Florida to sell that will make you rich.

I mean I get it as a fan, but IMO its very classless and distasteful. Especially given everything that Vinny has done for the organization. 

[bhougland]

19 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Don't boo Vinny. Boo Ballard for not recognizing the decline or Reich for the blind faith.

 

 

Vinny had every opportunity to bow out gracefully, but he had decided to chase records at the detriment of his team.  Don't tell me he isn't going after Mort Anderson's most games played record; he has never said that he intends on retiring after this year.  Now, he may be forced to retire as a Colt, and based on how this year has gone he may, but I don't think that was his intention.

 

Edit:  after reading this I want to clear up something.  I don't think Vinny realized this year would go so poorly, so its not like he wanted or knew the team would suffer if he came back.  That is just the way it has turned out this year.

[Valpo2004]

7 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Don't boo Vinny. Boo Ballard for not recognizing the decline or Reich for the blind faith.

 

I would agree with that but a boo is a boo.  No one can recognize what you are booing at.  

 

I would just view it as any game now can be Vinny's last game.  Word was he had to be talked out of retirement after week 2.  He made some kicks in week 3 so he stayed in.  If he misses a bunch of kicks on Sunday he might make up his mind to announce his retirement on Monday.

 

Keeping that in mind, act as you would as if it is his last game no matter what happens.  I presume if the fans keep that in mind they will applaud him no matter what he does.  Or at the very least hold back their displeasure at missed scoring opportunities. 

[MPStack]

Vinny’s  won the Colts a lot of games over the years, I wouldn’t Boo him.

 

However, he needs to determine when to bow out gracefully, which I believe will be at the end of the season. 
 

As far as cutting him, are there really any better options out there?  He’s cost the Colts a couple games, but their still 5-3. It’s not like the season is lost. I would still prefer AV kicking a potential game winner in the playoffs, then probably anyone currently available. 

[Valpo2004]

9 minutes ago, bhougland said:

 

 

Vinny had every opportunity to bow out gracefully, but he had decided to chase records at the detriment of his team.  Don't tell me he isn't going after Mort Anderson's most games played record; he has never said that he intends on retiring after this year.  Now, he may be forced to retire as a Colt, and based on how this year has gone he may, but I don't think that was his intention.

 

Not buying it, word was Ballard and Reich specifically talked Vinny out of retirement after week 2.  

 

And Vinny has not been a detriment to this team until this year.  Prior to this year he was hitting his kicks at a rate that is far superior to any replacement kicker that you could find available in free agency.  

[Gramz]

Seriously...??   My thoughts.

 

Booing is a reflection on the person booing,  NOT the person being booed.

 

You're good with that,  knock yourself out.

[Mr.Debonair]

3 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

I would agree with that but a boo is a boo.  No one can recognize what you are booing at.  

 

I would just view it as any game now can be Vinny's last game.  Word was he had to be talked out of retirement after week 2.  He made some kicks in week 3 so he stayed in.  If he misses a bunch of kicks on Sunday he might make up his mind to announce his retirement on Monday.

 

Keeping that in mind, act as you would as if it is his last game no matter what happens.  I presume if the fans keep that in mind they will applaud him no matter what he does.  Or at the very least hold back their displeasure at missed scoring opportunities. 

I agree, I was speaking more metaphorically. Basically cause Ballard allowed him to come back after the shaky end to the season last year. Then Richt getting super conservative because he just has 100% in AV, when AV has given plenty reason for uneasiness 

[aaron11]

justified is a matter of opinion, no one can tell you whats appropriate to boo

 

i probably wouldnt but i wont be mad at people that do

[bhougland]

Just now, aaron11 said:

justified is a matter of opinion, no one can tell you whats appropriate to boo

 

i probably wouldnt but i wont be mad at people that do

 

I wouldn't either, I am a very conservative, quiet person in real life.  However, I am just thinking about the reality of a situation as if it happened and was brought up as a topic on a sports talk show.

[Valpo2004]

9 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Vinny’s  won the Colts a lot of games over the years, I wouldn’t Boo him.

 

However, he needs to determine when to bow out gracefully, which I believe will be at the end of the season. 
 

As far as cutting him, are there really any better options out there?  He’s cost the Colts a couple games, but their still 5-3. It’s not like the season is lost. I would still prefer AV kicking a potential game winner in the playoffs, then probably anyone currently available. 

 

Yes, I pointed out in another thread that Cody Parkey's last year in Chicago he had a higher kick % on kicks from every range except 30 to 39 yards as AV does this year.  And the reason for that is based on luck I suppose AV has hit every kick he's attempted this year at that range but has missed several from closer and several from longer to go along with several PAT misses.

 

So yes there are kickers available that are better than AV now.  

 

That said that's not the only thing that goes into this.  AV is the GOAT at his position.  Even when his abilities are crumbling before your eyes with players who have been that great you tend to play them out to the end of the season and let them retire of their own free will.  That is unless he retires mid-season.  

 

He's going to almost certainly retire after this season.  Colts only have him on a 1 year deal and likely wouldn't re-up with him even if he wanted to play again.  And no other team would sign him at this point.  I'm sure he see's the writing on the wall.  It's just a question of if he decides to hang on until the end of this season or if the misses bother him too much and he retires mid-season.  

 

I hate to watch him retire mid-season, but I feel like that is something he might do.  

[will426]

lol it’s not that deep smh..he literally has the kicking power at such an old age but the weird thing is where he keeps pulling and a lot of the times it’s because of the Holders placement on the ball which has been an issue for quite a while and also the long snapper has been an issue allowing people to block the kicks more frequently have also been an issue special teams as a core this year has been horrendous compared to other years where we had NO ISSUES SNAPPING KICKING AND HOLDING THE BALL

[luv_pony_express]

31 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Don't boo Vinny. Boo Ballard for not recognizing the decline or Reich for the blind faith.

 

Oh please.  I’m sure Chris Ballard recognizes the decline.  The problem is that he has heretofore declined to do anything about it.

 

To answer the OP, I think sports fans have the right to be boo-birds.  But I also think that it’s tacky and stupid.  I would never boo my team.

[bhougland]

2 minutes ago, will426 said:

lol it’s not that deep smh..he literally has the kicking power at such an old age but the weird thing is where he keeps pulling and a lot of the times it’s because of the Holders placement on the ball which has been an issue for quite a while and also the long snapper has been an issue allowing people to block the kicks more frequently have also been an issue special teams as a core this year has been horrendous compared to other years where we had NO ISSUES SNAPPING KICKING AND HOLDING THE BALL

 

Fans just boo at results, it is up to management and coaching to get them fixed.  

[WarGhost21]

Personally, I wouldn't boo Vinny. He's had such an amazing career, let him finish the season and go out in peace. Booing him now would only tarnish how people look at his career. It isn't my choice, seeing as everyone has a right to their own opinion, but let the man finish up in peace, and hope we find someone next year and don't fall into the situation that the Bears were in.

[FRW]

4 minutes ago, will426 said:

lol it’s not that deep smh..he literally has the kicking power at such an old age but the weird thing is where he keeps pulling and a lot of the times it’s because of the Holders placement on the ball which has been an issue for quite a while and also the long snapper has been an issue allowing people to block the kicks more frequently have also been an issue special teams as a core this year has been horrendous compared to other years where we had NO ISSUES SNAPPING KICKING AND HOLDING THE BALL

I'm not so sure about blaming it on everyone but him. The man is 46 years old and has been kicking footballs for probably 35 years or more. That puts great strain on three joints in the plant leg. I'm guessing he is having trouble with stability on that leg. It seems he's done worse on grass than turf. A grass field has more inconsistencies with surface making it more important that you can firmly plant the left foot and know everything on that side is going to remain steady through the kicking motion. I don't think he has that confidence anymore. I don't think he knows when the foot goes down whether the ankle is going to flex, the knee is going to twist or the hip is going to slip. Anyone of these could be disastrous. I think the power is still there, but you need stability for accuracy, and that he doesn't have anymore. Especially on less than perfect surfaces. Just my opinion.

[jvan1973]

27 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Not buying it, word was Ballard and Reich specifically talked Vinny out of retirement after week 2.  

 

And Vinny has not been a detriment to this team until this year.  Prior to this year he was hitting his kicks at a rate that is far superior to any replacement kicker that you could find available in free agency.  

Vinny said flat out he never considered retirement.   The notion the front office talked him out of it was speculation by reporters. 

[lollygagger8]

I'm guessing 80% of the people that go to games aren't on this forum unfortunately. 

 

I don't think they should, but Booers gonna boo! 

[chad72]

I do think they need to bring in kickers constantly to see what they have in the market. Heck, even the Patriots after Gostkowski tried Cody Parkey, Mike Nugent and others before settling on Nugent. Then they cut Nugent and went with Nick Folk for now.

 

If his name was not Adam Vinatieri, he'd be cut by now. 

[bhougland]

4 minutes ago, chad72 said:

I do think they need to bring in kickers constantly to see what they have in the market. Heck, even the Patriots after Gostkowski tried Cody Parkey, Mike Nugent and others before settling on Nugent. Then they cut Nugent and went with Nick Folk for now.

 

If his name was not Adam Vinatieri, he'd be cut by now. 

 

Don't bring the Patriots into this, we all know they are trying to win, not get a Hallmark movie made about them.

 

Edit:

[Gramz]

2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

I do think they need to bring in kickers constantly to see what they have in the market. Heck, even the Patriots after Gostkowski tried Cody Parkey, Mike Nugent and others before settling on Nugent. Then they cut Nugent and went with Nick Folk for now.

 

If his name was not Adam Vinatieri, he'd be cut by now. 

The question was....is booing justified?

[indyagent17]

I think silence and murmers will be sufficient on missed kicks

[ManningGM]

1 hour ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Don't boo Vinny. Boo Ballard for not recognizing the decline or Reich for the blind faith.

I'm booing Irsay. 

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

the kicking team will get it fixed, therefore there will be nothing to boo about