Adam Vinatieri (Merge)

[jvan1973]

6 hours ago, Myles said:

The blocked XP was his fault.   He went low.   

The laces being out doesn't affect a kick that much.  Hitting the ground does.   Granted if the foot was coming at a complete 180 degrees, it would only affect the power.   That is not the case with kickers.   

I think this guy knows a bit about kicking and holding and the effects of different things

 

 

 

 

[ojsglove]

If Vinny decides to stay instead of retiring and the front office allows it, they are going to lose a lot of respect from a lot of fans.

[1959Colts]

19 minutes ago, ojsglove said:

If Vinny decides to stay instead of retiring and the front office allows it, they are going to lose a lot of respect from a lot of fans.

There is no indication that he plans to retire.

[jvan1973]

29 minutes ago, ojsglove said:

If Vinny decides to stay instead of retiring and the front office allows it, they are going to lose a lot of respect from a lot of fans.

From over reacting fans.   

[TimetobringDfence!]

1 hour ago, Four2itus said:

How unfortunate for Andrew Luck and Adam V. It is my opinion that both players wanted to hang it up, and were asked very strongly to hang on longer, for the team, by the front office. Now they are being disrespected by fans, for being respectful to the front office. 

 

 

Theres no proof that they asked Vinny not to retire, for all we know the Colts said retire or we might cut and he said i got this. He might be refusing, I think they brought those kickers in to light a fire. The proble. Is not will power, father time is taking adams reflexes.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I don't see Vinny going anywhere but I do see him retiring after the season is over. We only have 8 games to go now. 

[LockeDown]

It will be discussed in the off-season and FO and Vinny will make the right decision. 

[bluebombers87]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

I think this guy knows a bit about kicking and holding and the effects of different things

 

 

 

 

Pat McAfee is also a close friend to Adam. So take that with a grain of salt.

 

Ive also read where some kickers say it doesn’t matter with the laces and some even prefer it (can increase compression therefore distance). 
 

Ive not seen enough of his kicks to say he does leave a divot on every kick but I’d be surprised if leaving that size of a mark is normal for him. A little one sure. But this was a sizeable chunk of turf.

 

As it relates to laces, I have a hard time believing the greatest of all time has never seen laces facing him down before. I also believe he has and has a way to compensate for that.

 

At the end of the day, he missed it. That’s the truth. I will say prior to the kick, his face didn’t look the same before. My opinion obviously.

 

All the things we’re talking about here are things every kicker deals with and every kicker, especially the greatest of all time should be able to overcome. I have a hard time believing that a pro kicker, one of the 32 best kickers in the world (at kicking oblong balls), can’t over come an 8th or a quarter of an inch from 43 yards and send it beyond the width of the nets. Just my opinion.

[ojsglove]

I just don’t want him to miss another game winning kick and get booed off the field.  He has done to much for the Colts and the community to have that happen.

[1959Colts]

40 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't see Vinny going anywhere but I do see him retiring after the season is over. We only have 8 games to go now. 

I see your point...yet I guess it depends if he costs us more of the eight games? and how many?

[coltsva]

2 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

What would people be saying...if he missed that DEN kick and hit the kick against PIT?

The same thing, except this week's comments would have been last week, and last week's comments would have been this weeks.

[will426]

i think adam needs to go but overall our special teams suck..they can’t block anymore..whoever’s holding the damn ball for Vinny also doesn’t place it properly  like when have we had this many issues on special teams besides when we used to give up returns 

 

[coltsva]

Pat McAfee has his friend's back, which is fine.

[coltsva]

If the problem is Sanchez, wouldn't the Colts have replaced him as holder? Isn't it easier to find another holder than it is another kicker? It wasn't that long ago that the backup QB was the holder on just about every team. If Vinny gets hurt in a game and Sanchez has to kick, I'm sure the Colts have someone lined up to hold for the kicks.

 

If the problem is Rhodes, wouldn't the Colts have replaced him as long snapper. Isn't it easier to find a new long snapper than it is a kicker? Matt Overton is out there without a job. If Rhodes gets hurt in a game, I'm sure the Colts have someone lined up to snap for kicks and punts.

 

 

[will426]

11 minutes ago, coltsva said:

If the problem is Sanchez, wouldn't the Colts have replaced him as holder? Isn't it easier to find another holder than it is another kicker? It wasn't that long ago that the backup QB was the holder on just about every team. If Vinny gets hurt in a game and Sanchez has to kick, I'm sure the Colts have someone lined up to hold for the kicks.

 

If the problem is Rhodes, wouldn't the Colts have replaced him as long snapper. Isn't it easier to find a new long snapper than it is a kicker? Matt Overton is out there without a job. If Rhodes gets hurt in a game, I'm sure the Colts have someone lined up to snap for kicks and punts.

 

 

don’t understand why we let overton go anyway with the chemistry him and vinny had for years 

[jvan1973]

57 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Pat McAfee is also a close friend to Adam. So take that with a grain of salt.

 

Ive also read where some kickers say it doesn’t matter with the laces and some even prefer it (can increase compression therefore distance). 
 

Ive not seen enough of his kicks to say he does leave a divot on every kick but I’d be surprised if leaving that size of a mark is normal for him. A little one sure. But this was a sizeable chunk of turf.

 

As it relates to laces, I have a hard time believing the greatest of all time has never seen laces facing him down before. I also believe he has and has a way to compensate for that.

 

At the end of the day, he missed it. That’s the truth. I will say prior to the kick, his face didn’t look the same before. My opinion obviously.

 

All the things we’re talking about here are things every kicker deals with and every kicker, especially the greatest of all time should be able to overcome. I have a hard time believing that a pro kicker, one of the 32 best kickers in the world (at kicking oblong balls), can’t over come an 8th or a quarter of an inch from 43 yards and send it beyond the width of the nets. Just my opinion.

Yeah, what does Pat know about kicking and holding.   The brain trust here is probably more educated on the subject matter

[bluebombers87]

21 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Yeah, what does Pat know about kicking and holding.   The brain trust here is probably more educated on the subject matter

So one guy who is friends with Adam says one thing so it’s now law?

 

Connor Limpert, the kicker for Alabama is on record saying it doesn’t matter. He’s an uninvolved 3rd party. Pat, as much as I love him, has a vested interest in defending his friend. I can’t consider him unbiased.

 

And before you smart off again maybe see that I said some kickers say one it does not matter while others say it does. My whole point which you failed to address was that while laces in or out may have an effect, kicking into the stands from 43 out while leaving a divot more accustomed to a golf course may be related.

[jvan1973]

9 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

So one guy who is friends with Adam says one thing so it’s now law?

 

Connor Limpert, the kicker for Alabama is on record saying it doesn’t matter. He’s an uninvolved 3rd party. Pat, as much as I love him, has a vested interest in defending his friend. I can’t consider him unbiased.

 

And before you smart off again maybe see that I said some kickers say one it does not matter while others say it does. My whole point which you failed to address was that while laces in or out may have an effect, kicking into the stands from 43 out while leaving a divot more accustomed to a golf course may be related.

Did you watch the video where Pat says he scuffs the ground on most kicks?  

 

Im guessing he would know.   He held for a lot of his kicks.     Forgive me if I don't take Arkansas kickers opinion over a guy that has kicked NFL balls

 

 

[bluebombers87]

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Did you watch the video where Pat says he scuffs the ground on most kicks?  

 

Im guessing he would know.   He held for a lot of his kicks.     Forgive me if I don't take Arkansas kickers opinion over a guy that has kicked NFL balls

 

 

My mistake, Arkansas.

 

That wasn’t a scuff. That was a divot. As I said before I’m sure contact with the ground is normal but at that amount? Go outside and try to make that mark on the ground and see what impact it has. I know he’s the greatest and your John Doe but physics applies to everyone so it’s still analogous.

 

And the point, is that some kickers say it has an impact and other say it doesn’t. If kicking the ball on the laces has the ability to send a ball as significantly off the mark, as Pat claims, don’t you think there would be very few, virtually no one saying it has no impact?

 

And before you knock Limpert, he’s 100% on XP and 80% on FG for his career. He also kicks in the NCAA which has wider hash marks and therefore more extreme angles of approach for kickers.

[Blueblood23]

2 hours ago, LockeDown said:

It will be discussed in the off-season and FO and Vinny will make the right decision. 

For him or the team?

[Introspect]

2 hours ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Theres no proof that they asked Vinny not to retire, for all we know the Colts said retire or we might cut and he said i got this. He might be refusing, I think they brought those kickers in to light a fire. The proble. Is not will power, father time is taking adams reflexes.

Father time is UNDEFEATED

[Dogg63]

23 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

And the point, is that some kickers say it has an impact and other say it doesn’t. If kicking the ball on the laces has the ability to send a ball as significantly off the mark, as Pat claims, don’t you think there would be very few, virtually no one saying it has no impact?

Going to have to believe you are correct on this one, bb87. Surely Limpert knows more than the NFL GOAT himself. Good call!

https://www.colts.com/video/colts-kicker-adam-vinatieri-on-laces-out-16677962

[bluebombers87]

6 minutes ago, Dogg63 said:

Going to have to believe you are correct on this one, bb87. Surely Limpert knows more than the NFL GOAT himself. Good call!

https://www.colts.com/video/colts-kicker-adam-vinatieri-on-laces-out-16677962

Mother of Pearl did you not read what I’ve said at all? If kicking with laces in can cause a ball to go 10 yards outside the uprights why would anyone say it doesn’t matter? He vanderjagt’ed that thing.

[bluebombers87]

12 minutes ago, Dogg63 said:

Going to have to believe you are correct on this one, bb87. Surely Limpert knows more than the NFL GOAT himself. Good call!

https://www.colts.com/video/colts-kicker-adam-vinatieri-on-laces-out-16677962

Also watched the video and in one video a player kicked it with laces in and it went straight through, not into the stands. Weird!

[CoachLite]

[bluebombers87]

Alright since Connor Limpert wasn’t good enough, here’s Chuck Zodda’s explanation on kicking the laces:

While striking the laces directly may cause some variation with the flight of the ball, it is more likely to result in a loss of distance due to the maximum compression not being applied directly to the football than side-to-side action. Off-center laces may cause a hook or slice, but a direct impact does not usually result in significant movement in these ways.

 

So, as I’ve stated, some kickers say it doesn’t make a difference. Some do. Would kicking the laces make a ball miss the uprights and the back nets? The guy above says likely not.

 

At the end of the day he missed the kick. We can make all kinds of excuses but he’s missed multiple kicks in 4 of 8 games. At the end of the day I find that to be problematic.

[bluebombers87]

11 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

This is a message board. This is kind of the whole purpose of this thing. But I guess that only counts on state approved messages ey comrade?

[CoachLite]

1 minute ago, bluebombers87 said:

This is a message board. This is kind of the whole purpose of this thing. But I guess that only counts on state approved messages ey comrade?

My hope would be: Learn more. Rant less. But whatever floats your boat ...

[bluebombers87]

5 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

My hope would be: Learn more. Rant less. But whatever floats your boat ...

Cool post. Maybe add to the conversation. After all isn’t that the point?

 

And I wasn’t aware there were requirements for posting here. I have on multiple occasions stated these are my opinions but have cited people who are more knowledgeable than myself and, I assume, others here.

 

Just because it goes against what your opinion is, doesn’t mean it’s ranting. Most adults can have a back and forth where points are made to bolster their overarching ideas. Maybe try that instead of offering pointless posts that denigrate others.

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, bluebombers87 said:

My mistake, Arkansas.

 

That wasn’t a scuff. That was a divot. As I said before I’m sure contact with the ground is normal but at that amount? Go outside and try to make that mark on the ground and see what impact it has. I know he’s the greatest and your John Doe but physics applies to everyone so it’s still analogous.

 

And the point, is that some kickers say it has an impact and other say it doesn’t. If kicking the ball on the laces has the ability to send a ball as significantly off the mark, as Pat claims, don’t you think there would be very few, virtually no one saying it has no impact?

 

And before you knock Limpert, he’s 100% on XP and 80% on FG for his career. He also kicks in the NCAA which has wider hash marks and therefore more extreme angles of approach for kickers.

Yeah. im gonna take guys that have been doing it in the NFL's opinion over a guy that kicks a much different ball and may never kick an NFL ball.   Vinny is our kicker,   they will figure it out 

[PrincetonTiger]

13 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

My hope would be: Learn more. Rant less. But whatever floats your boat ...

Agreed

[jvan1973]

17 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Alright since Connor Limpert wasn’t good enough, here’s Chuck Zodda’s explanation on kicking the laces:

While striking the laces directly may cause some variation with the flight of the ball, it is more likely to result in a loss of distance due to the maximum compression not being applied directly to the football than side-to-side action. Off-center laces may cause a hook or slice, but a direct impact does not usually result in significant movement in these ways.

 

So, as I’ve stated, some kickers say it doesn’t make a difference. Some do. Would kicking the laces make a ball miss the uprights and the back nets? The guy above says likely not.

 

At the end of the day he missed the kick. We can make all kinds of excuses but he’s missed multiple kicks in 4 of 8 games. At the end of the day I find that to be problematic.

How many NFL balls has that Dartmouth kicker hit?  

[bluebombers87]

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

How many NFL balls has that Dartmouth kicker hit?  

How many have you hit?

[Mr.Debonair]

11 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Cool post. Maybe add to the conversation. After all isn’t that the point?

 

And I wasn’t aware there were requirements for posting here. I have on multiple occasions stated these are my opinions but have cited people who are more knowledgeable than myself and, I assume, others here.

 

Just because it goes against what your opinion is, doesn’t mean it’s ranting. Most adults can have a back and forth where points are made to bolster their overarching ideas. Maybe try that instead of offering pointless posts that denigrate others.

Your point is well taken by those who are willing to hear it. Others not so much, just because it’s Adam. AV didn’t miss that cuz  the laces were facing him

[bluebombers87]

8 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Yeah. im gonna take guys that have been doing it in the NFL's opinion over a guy that kicks a much different ball and may never kick an NFL ball.   Vinny is our kicker,   they will figure it out 

The balls are virtually identical. The only difference is the hash marks are about 22 feet wider which some could argue that makes kicking in the NCAA more difficult.

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:
You’re point is well taken by those who are willing to hear it. Others not so much, just because it’s Adam. AV didn’t miss that cuz  the laces were facing him

For what it’s worth McAfee disagrees.  Maybe rather than just dismissing him because he’s not saying what people who Adam gone want to hear it should be considered McAfee knows more than us about what he’s talking about here.

 

With that said, if that was the only kick Adam had missed this year this would be a non-issue.  It’s not so it is.  I stand by what I said yesterday, I think the Colts should look at other kickers and see if anyone better is out there.  It doesn’t sound like they are going to do that which Adam is the guy at least for now so regardless of how I feel about that move I want Adam to do well because he’s our kicker.  Do I trust him too at this point?  No.

 

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

For what it’s worth McAfee disagrees.  Maybe rather than just dismissing him because he’s not saying what people who Adam gone want to hear it should be considered McAfee knows more than us about what he’s talking about here.

 

With that said, if that was the only kick Adam had missed this year this would be a non-issue.  It’s not so it is.  I stand by what I said yesterday, I think the Colts should look at other kickers and see if anyone better is out there.  It doesn’t sound like they are going to do that which Adam is the guy at least for now so regardless of how I feel about that move I want Adam to do well because he’s our kicker.  Do I trust him too at this point?  No.

 

They will look at a new kicker....  at the end of the season

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

They will look at a new kicker....  at the end of the season

That’s what I am expecting at this point.

[jvan1973]

10 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

The balls are virtually identical. The only difference is the hash marks are about 22 feet wider which some could argue that makes kicking in the NCAA more difficult.

The goal posts are wider in college as well.    Again,   I'm going with the opinion of a person that has held and kicked in the pros.  You can take some college guys opinion.  That's up to you

[bluebombers87]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

The goal posts are wider in college as well.    Again,   I'm going with the opinion of a person that has held and kicked in the pros.  You can take some college guys opinion.  That's up to you

The goal posts have been the same since 1991.
 

That’s fine but you have to at least acknowledge he’s somewhat biased. He’s personal friends with Adam and will want to take some heat off of him, as friends do.

 

And I’d be careful dismissing people just because they don’t have exacting experience. Knowledge is knowledge. Just because someone went to Harvard doesn’t make them better then someone who went to Purdue.