Who "won" the Dorsett-Brissett trade

[FRW]

On 8/31/2019 at 7:00 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If Brissett gets us to 10-6 and we win the South and a playoff game. IMO most people would want Brissett back as the starter in 2020. I actually would as well.

If we go 10-6 and win the South, both of which I am predicting. And we win a playoff game JB's first year, I think he stays the starter regardless of what AL decides. I don't think the front office would screw him over like that. If AL had taken the year off to rehab with the stated intent to return then I think they hand him the keys back. However, and this is the big difference, he didn't do that did he? No he retired, he's gone and there is no expectation he'll return. If he decides to and people think he's got value, then I think we haul in a lot of draft picks in a trade.

 

As for the original question, right now I'd say to early to decide, but I'm leaning towards us. Why? Simple QB's are worth more in the league than WRs. Add to that the fact that as of right now Dorsett seems to be a 4-5 receiver for NE and JB is a starting QB for a potential playoff team. Those facts push the meter way to our side  but this year will be the telling season. Dorsett will never be more than an average receiver with great speed. JB has the potential to be so much more.

[aaron11]

Luck is done with the colts imo.  slim to no chance he will come back at all, if he does they will see if they can trade him

 

they could also say they will only trade him to a bad team in the NFC, which would probably make him stay retired 

[lollygagger8]

I'd like to think that we fleeced them pretty good on that trade. 

 

I'm also trying hard not to let my personal dislike for that organization cloud my judgement.

[shasta519]

I mean...of course the Colts won the trade on paper...they were bargaining from a position of power and got (for them) a more valuable asset...especially since Dorsett was a holdever.

 

But for NE...it's not like JB was going to play for them...so getting something out of him was better than nothing I suppose. I think, somewhere along the line, NE's long-term plans changed from a Jimmy G/Brissett depth chart to Brady being ageless.

[DougDew]

If Dorsett helped the Pats win a SB, and I don't know if he did or not, then NE won the trade so far. 

 

So far, we have won nothing with Brissett on the roster.

[Coffeedrinker]

Dorsett is currently the #2 WR on the Pats depth chart and Brady has spoken well of Dorsett this offseason, so it looks like both teams got what they wanted in the trade.

 

[chad72]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

If Dorsett helped the Pats win a SB, and I don't know if he did or not, then NE won the trade so far. 

 

So far, we have won nothing with Brissett on the roster.

 

It is hard to evaluate because Brissett plays the alpha position of QB and until he gets a chance with the new regime (he finally has) and completes a season with the new regime, he cannot be evaluated.

 

Dorsett can be chalked up like Chris Hogan, David Patten type WRs that NE gets in free agency and play their small part. Did Dorsett do his job when called upon? Yes. Was he the key reason the NE offense moved smoothly? I would have to say No. Brady and his OC (Weis, McDaniels etc.) have always been responsible for their offense functioning smoothly along with Belichick playing GM bringing pieces that can be used.

 

Dorsett is not at the same level as Edelman or Gronk or Michel or James White, who are far more vital for the functioning of that offense, IMO. If Dorsett becomes an All Pro, there is definitely a case for NE winning the trade. But for now, he is JAG in the NE offense doing his job. 

 

With Brissett, if he is JAG, Colts have lost the trade, he needs to win games and get us to the playoffs at least. I don't think he is paid or expected to be a high ceiling elite QB, he is a mid-tier QB talent, when surrounded with excellent team talent, can win us games. That is my expectation at least. 

[DougDew]

33 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

It is hard to evaluate because Brissett plays the alpha position of QB and until he gets a chance with the new regime (he finally has) and completes a season with the new regime, he cannot be evaluated.

 

Dorsett can be chalked up like Chris Hogan, David Patten type WRs that NE gets in free agency and play their small part. Did Dorsett do his job when called upon? Yes. Was he the key reason the NE offense moved smoothly? I would have to say No. Brady and his OC (Weis, McDaniels etc.) have always been responsible for their offense functioning smoothly along with Belichick playing GM bringing pieces that can be used.

 

Dorsett is not at the same level as Edelman or Gronk or Michel or James White, who are far more vital for the functioning of that offense, IMO. If Dorsett becomes an All Pro, there is definitely a case for NE winning the trade. But for now, he is JAG in the NE offense doing his job. 

 

With Brissett, if he is JAG, Colts have lost the trade, he needs to win games and get us to the playoffs at least. I don't think he is paid or expected to be a high ceiling elite QB, he is a mid-tier QB talent, when surrounded with excellent team talent, can win us games. That is my expectation at least. 

Agreed.  I think it was an even swap, which is why the trade was made in the first place.

 

Brissett can show that he could be the QB of the future.  If he is for us, then he could have been for the Pats too, considering Brady's age.

 

Not saying that Dorsett wasn't replaceable, but the goal is to win the SB during the present rather than finding a QB for the future, so in that respect the Pats did well. 

 

As much as Dorsett was replaceable, the Pats still have the ability to find a QB for the future.  It doesn't have to specifically be Brissett.

[jameszeigler834]

On 8/30/2019 at 8:48 PM, Stephen said:

Yea well Campbell  is alot shiftier than dorsett

Probably better hands too Dorsett couldn't catch a cold when he was here hasn't been much better with the Pats.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Dorsett had very little to do with the Pats winning a SB  . They would've won without him. Some people acting like he had an impact on them winning a SB and say he has a ring . Lets keep it real now. You could take Dorsett off that team and plug any 4 or 5 WR in on that team and they win. To me that is just common sense. If Brissett plays well then we won that trade, if he doesn't then it was a wash becuase Dorsett was terrible here anyway.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Probably the team that's been to 2 Super Bowls since the trade took place.

[John Waylon]

[Anonymous]

I think this is a rare instance in which both teams won the trade.

 

That being said, I do think Dorsett gets overrated sometimes because he plays on the Patriots. If NE though so highly of him then they wouldn't have went after Antonio Brown.

[GoColts8818]

On 9/6/2019 at 5:08 PM, Steamboat_Shaun said:

Probably the team that's been to 2 Super Bowls since the trade took place.

Enh, I Dorsett happened to get traded to a team that’s been to two Super Bowls more than he was the reason they went to them.  

 

Like someone else said I think both teams got what they wanted out of the deal.  Not all trades have a winner and a loser.  Some have both winners, IE this one, and some both have losers, see the Colts and Browns trade for Richardson.

[Goatface Killah]

15 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Enh, I Dorsett happened to get traded to a team that’s been to two Super Bowls more than he was the reason they went to them.  

 

Like someone else said I think both teams got what they wanted out of the deal.  Not all trades have a winner and a loser.  Some have both winners, IE this one, and some both have losers, see the Colts and Browns trade for Richardson.

Idk, he looked pretty good tonight.

 

But, we needed a much more important position, QB. And given our current situation, I am certainly glad we have Jacoby on board.

 

Win-Win

[GoColts8818]

5 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

Idk, he looked pretty good tonight.

 

But, we needed a much more important position, QB. And given our current situation, I am certainly glad we have Jacoby on board.

 

Win-Win

I didn’t watch the game but from what I’ve read yes he did.  Still I stand by my point that he wasn’t a major factor in the Pats going to those two Super Bowls.  

 

Also, I’d hate to think where the Colts would be now or would have been in 2017 without Jacoby.   

 

We agree it was a win-win for both sides.

[Stephen]

33 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I didn’t watch the game but from what I’ve read yes he did.  Still I stand by my point that he wasn’t a major factor in the Pats going to those two Super Bowls.  

 

Also, I’d hate to think where the Colts would be now or would have been in 2017 without Jacoby.   

 

We agree it was a win-win for both sides.

Yea dorsett showed off tonight and they about to add antonio brown  to that.

[Imgrandojji]

week 1:  Jacoby Brissett, 21-27, 190 yards, 2 TDs, 0 picks, L

week 1: Phillip Dorsett,  4 catches, 94 yards, 2 TDs,

 

Call me crazy, but I'd say that's pretty close.

[life long]

LETS GO COLTS!!!!!

[azcolt]

On 9/9/2019 at 9:07 AM, Imgrandojji said:

week 1:  Jacoby Brissett, 21-27, 190 yards, 2 TDs, 0 picks, L

week 1: Phillip Dorsett,  4 catches, 94 yards, 2 TDs,

 

Call me crazy, but I'd say that's pretty close.

Call me flat out insane, but six weeks after the last post in this thread does anyone seriously doubt NE would reverse that trade today in a heartbeat? As long as I am totally bonkers, I would even venture to guess the Colts might trade Luck if he changes his mind about retirement next Summer.

[Imgrandojji]

Not this year.  Not while they still have Brady.  But a time is coming when the Patriots might look back at that trade with a certain regret.

 

Besides, with the injury to Gordon and the release of AB, Dorsett is in a prime position to be the main deep target for Brady, if the Patriots ever get their OL straightened out he could suddenly become very, very productive with that guy throwing to him

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

The colts clearly won the trade. You can’t compare a WR with a QB. QB is so much more important.

[Imgrandojji]

Just now, Chloe6124 said:

The colts clearly won the trade. You can’t compare a WR with a QB. QB is so much more important.

That, and now that it's becoming clear just how significant Brissett's off-field leadership was to our playoff run last year even though he barely played... that has to be factored into the analysis as well.  Entirely possible we don't get to the playoffs in 18 without Brissett rallying the troops behind the scenes.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

It would be the ultimate revenge if the colts went into NE and beat them in the playoffs. That would be better then if we did it with Luck. I would laugh my butt off.

[Imgrandojji]

15 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

It would be the ultimate revenge if the colts went into NE and beat them in the playoffs. That would be better then if we did it with Luck. I would laugh my butt off.

Something to dream on.  "the student surpassing the master."

 

Have to get there first, of course

[DougDew]

Trading away a WR who is now playing well does not compare to receiving a QB who is now playing well. 

 

Colts win the trade. 

 

But the fact that both are playing well shows that both teams saw something good in each player, IMO.

[aaron11]

18 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

It would be the ultimate revenge if the colts went into NE and beat them in the playoffs. That would be better then if we did it with Luck. I would laugh my butt off.

we have only beat them once in the playoffs period.  any win in NE is something to celebrate but yeah doing it with Jaoby would be nice

[Fluke_33]

On 9/9/2019 at 12:08 AM, GoatBeard said:

Idk, he looked pretty good tonight.

 

But, we needed a much more important position, QB. And given our current situation, I am certainly glad we have Jacoby on board.

 

Win-Win

Funny, before the game last night local boston radio was saying the colts were the clear winners of that trade.  He did play well last night though.

 

They were also praising brissett and wishing they kept him for post brady.

[John Waylon]

The Sanu trade makes this pretty curious. Dorsett is currently in the midst of his best season, but they pay (a rather high price) for Sanu. This pretty clearly shoves Dorsett down the order out there. 
 

Dorsett looks like he could be developing into a pretty decent receiver out there. Which I’m sure has Ryan Grigson touching himself wherever he is. Is he a first round player? Obviously not, but it speaks more to Paganos inability to develop him into anything than it does Grigson’s for drafting him. 

[Myles]

26 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

The Sanu trade makes this pretty curious. Dorsett is currently in the midst of his best season, but they pay (a rather high price) for Sanu. This pretty clearly shoves Dorsett down the order out there. 
 

Dorsett looks like he could be developing into a pretty decent receiver out there. Which I’m sure has Ryan Grigson touching himself wherever he is. Is he a first round player? Obviously not, but it speaks more to Paganos inability to develop him into anything than it does Grigson’s for drafting him. 

I'm not so sure.   It's not like he is having a great season.   He only has 18 catches for 240 yards in now his 3rd year with Brady and the Patriots.   I'd say he is giving 4th or 5th round WR production.   Trading for Sanu isn't a a stroke of confidence either.   

[Imgrandojji]

You guys are aware that Dorsett and Sanu are completely different types of wideouts right?

 

Sanu isn't there to push Dorsett down the totem pole, he's there because they were concerned about Gordon's injury and his ability to play the rest of the year.

[Dark Superman]

If you seriously need to ask yourself this question, you probably haven't watched football in two years.

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, azcolt said:

Call me flat out insane, but six weeks after the last post in this thread does anyone seriously doubt NE would reverse that trade today in a heartbeat? As long as I am totally bonkers, I would even venture to guess the Colts might trade Luck if he changes his mind about retirement next Summer.

 

Why would they? They haven’t needed a backup QB since 2016. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

42 minutes ago, Myles said:

I'm not so sure.   It's not like he is having a great season.   He only has 18 catches for 240 yards in now his 3rd year with Brady and the Patriots.   I'd say he is giving 4th or 5th round WR production.   Trading for Sanu isn't a a stroke of confidence either.   

Colts are getting the same production from Pascal. Pretty amazing.

[2006Coltsbestever]

We won this trade. The QB is the most important position on the field. After Luck retired with the other QB's we have on the roster, IMO there is no way we would be 4-2 right now. JB has had 2 terrific games against the Falcons and Texans and he played well enough in wins against the Titans and Chiefs. I would honestly say with Hoyer or Kelly there is a strong possibility we would be 2-4, if not 1-5.

[shasta519]

45 minutes ago, Myles said:

I'm not so sure.   It's not like he is having a great season.   He only has 18 catches for 240 yards in now his 3rd year with Brady and the Patriots.   I'd say he is giving 4th or 5th round WR production.   Trading for Sanu isn't a a stroke of confidence either.   

 

I don’t think so. Seemed like they always wanted another WR...which is why they signed AB. And with him gone...the need opened back up.

 

The Gordon injury might have impacted which type though. Sanu is a big slot WR...and Dorsett plays on the outside. 

 

Barring a Gronk return (stomach churns)...they seem to be favoring 3 and 4 WR sets going forward.

[shasta519]

14 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We won this trade. The QB is the most important position on the field. After Luck retired with the other QB's we have on the roster, IMO there is no way we would be 4-2 right now. JB has had 2 terrific games againt the Falcons and Texans and he played well enough in wins against the Titans and Chiefs. I would honestly say with Hoyer or Kelly there is a strong possibility we would be 2-4, if not 1-5.

 

If I had to guess...I would say 2-4 (maybe 3-3)...with more of a focus on rushing...especially around the goal line.

 

Hard to know what game plans would look like though...but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that Hoyer (or someone else) could operate well in this efficient Reich offense. They use a lot of rub routes and other creative ways of getting guys open...which helps any QB. It’s a far cry from the other offenses we have seen in Indy...except when NE came to town.

 

I remember, back in 2015, the Colts offense looking very efficient with Hasselback at the helm for a handful of games (which they won most of)...as they went to a similar offense. And I could see Hoyer doing just that.

 

But like Hasselback...I think he would get exposed eventually. Definitely have the best QB on the team going forward.

[azcolt]

39 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Why would they? They haven’t needed a backup QB since 2016. 

They would reverse the trade for sure because they could turn around and flip Jacoby for a lot more than Dorsett if they wanted to.  I realize this thread started six weeks ago but for anyone to argue now that this trade was a win-win is just arguing for the sake of arguing. This trade is looking like one of the steals of all time unless Jacoby gets hurt. Too bad we don’t have him locked up for more than next year.

[BProland85]

Right now it's not close. Indy has won the deal as of right now. Simply because of the importance of the position we got back in return. A starting caliber QB capable of getting us to the playoffs and is still ascending under good coaching by Reich. 

[shasta519]

44 minutes ago, azcolt said:

They would reverse the trade for sure because they could turn around and flip Jacoby for a lot more than Dorsett if they wanted to.  I realize this thread started six weeks ago but for anyone to argue now that this trade was a win-win is just arguing for the sake of arguing. This trade is looking like one of the steals of all time unless Jacoby gets hurt. Too bad we don’t have him locked up for more than next year.

 

Don't get me wrong...I dislike NE as much as the next sane person...but why can't it be a win-win move? 

 

And how do you figure they could flip JB for a lot more? Had they not traded JB...he would have been a backup in NE for the past three years...and his value would have been the same as it was when they offered him to IND (actually less...given the lack of cost control). His value in IND wasn't even that high...until Luck retired a few months ago.

 

Hindsight is undefeated...and that's really all this is. Trades aren't made in a vacuum. On a 1:1 asset level...sure...the Colts had the better part of the deal...they always did...because they got a QB for a WR. But everything else is circumstantial...and I highly doubt NE (BB) really cares one way or another undoing that deal.