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Some friends and myself have been throwing around the idea. Send the Dolphins the Redskins 2nd for Josh Rosen. The kid is still really talented, he's just been dealt probably the worst hand I can remember for a QB drafted in the early first. Maybe Ballard/Reich are set on rolling with Brissett to see what's there, but I know in the back of their minds they know this isn't the guy that's gonna bring another SB to Indianapolis. Why not take the flier on Rosen, and if he's awful, then take Herbert, Tua, or Fromm in the 2020 draft. It's a win-win. 

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7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

A) That's not giving him or Brissett a real chance to succeed. You're bailing on Brissett, and throwing Rosen to the wolves (again) without a solid foundation in the system. 

 

B) If the Colts want to get into the top five of the 2020 draft for a QB, they either have to be awful in 2019 -- which I hope they're not, and I'm assuming they won't be -- or they'll need draft capital to get back into that top range. Your proposal requires trading away a significant draft asset that would be useful in a potential trade up in 2020.

 

I think the sensible and realistic course of action is to ride it out with Brissett. If he's not starting caliber through 2019, they'll consider other options going into 2020. For now, it's his team.

 

I get it man, and know that's the course they're taking, just don't understand it at times. Why teams settle for mediocre options, instead of taking actions to get where they ultimately wanna be: the SB. Teams revel in mediocrity for far longer than they should, because they just won't pull the plug on a mediocre option. The Bengals are a prime example with the Red Rifle. 

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3 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

I get it man, and know that's the course they're taking, just don't understand it at times. Why teams settle for mediocre options, instead of taking actions to get where they ultimately wanna be: the SB. Teams revel in mediocrity for far longer than they should, because they just won't pull the plug on a mediocre option. The Bengals are a prime example with the Red Rifle. 

How do you know he will be mediocre. A lot of QB who we consider mediocre are bad because they don’t have a good team around them.

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Just now, Chloe6124 said:

How do you know he will be mediocre. A lot of QB who we consider mediocre are bad because they don’t have a good team around them.

 

Again, I'm going with what is most likely to happen. Unlike many here, I don't live in dreamland. It's highly unlikely that Jacoby Brissett is the future of the Colts. It would actually be a worst case scenario for him to be  "just good enough", because then we likely stick it out with him rather than finding a better option in a loaded 2020 QB class. Just don't wanna be stuck in mediocrity for 3-4 or 5 years. 

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Phins aren't going to trade Rosen.

 

Colts need to roll with JB. If he can't put up Ws, see what you have in Kelly.

 

While I want to win, Ballard and Reich get a pass this year. It should be all about seeing if JB is truly the guy, and if not, finding out if Kelly is the real deal. If neither have the right stuff, make a move post season via draft or FA. 

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9 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

 

Every mock I've seen has the Dolphins going Tua at 1. I understand these things are far from concrete, but we have to go with the most likely conclusion when dealing in hypotheticals. 

That’s cause the dolphins have a pretty bad team that’s projected to be pretty bad. It doesn’t mean they’re tanking. And that doesn’t make it ‘etched in stone’ as you stated before.

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9 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

I get it man, and know that's the course they're taking, just don't understand it at times. Why teams settle for mediocre options, instead of taking actions to get where they ultimately wanna be: the SB. Teams revel in mediocrity for far longer than they should, because they just won't pull the plug on a mediocre option. The Bengals are a prime example with the Red Rifle. 

 

Ehh, I understand frustration, but I don't co-sign recklessness. I don't think Rosen's book has been written, he was in a terrible situation last year, but I wouldn't just throw him out there with no preparation. That's how you ruin a young QB.

 

And what's really reckless is trading away a significant draft asset to put a young QB in a bad situation, when the team should have their eye on doing everything they can to be in position to draft a new QB if they need to. 

 

So I think the team's best option now is Brissett, and I think their best chances of drafting a franchise level guy involve keeping that WAS #2 in 2020.

 

Also, the comparison to Dalton doesn't work for me. Brissett hasn't had anywhere near the kind of opportunity that Dalton had early in his career. The last time Brissett started, it was for a bad coaching staff, with a team he didn't know. If he's bad this year, I'm fine with moving on. But I think he should be giving a chance before you assume he represents 'reveling in mediocrity.'

 

Lastly, Ballard's operation is not going to embrace mediocrity, at any level. Luck or not.

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1 minute ago, Imgrandojji said:

Josh Rosen 2018

3-10 record

2278 yards passing

138 yards rushing

11 TD

14 INT

26.6 QBR

 

 

Jacoby Brissett 2018

4-11 record

3098 yards passing

260 yards rushing 

13 TD

7 INT

81.7 QBR

 

Brissett is literally better than Rosen in every possible way.

 

There’s a lot more to it than those stats. Premature assessment IMO.

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21 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

 

Every mock I've seen has the Dolphins going Tua at 1. I understand these things are far from concrete, but we have to go with the most likely conclusion when dealing in hypotheticals. 

Neither have taken a snap this year.   How many Alabama qbs under Saben have succeeded in the NFL.  

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15 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

Again, I'm going with what is most likely to happen. Unlike many here, I don't live in dreamland. It's highly unlikely that Jacoby Brissett is the future of the Colts. It would actually be a worst case scenario for him to be  "just good enough", because then we likely stick it out with him rather than finding a better option in a loaded 2020 QB class. Just don't wanna be stuck in mediocrity for 3-4 or 5 years. 

What makes you think Rosen is better than Brissett?

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43 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

What makes you think Rosen is better than Brissett?

 

Guys that are much more adept at evaluating quarterbacks than myself, I guess. They had him as a 1st round guy, and Brissett as a 3rd. There are intangibles I'd imagine they look at, but no I couldn't break out it down for you like they could. My thing was, give Rosen a shot, if he fails then go in another direction. Rosen hasn't ever played with the talent or coaching that currently resides in Indy. 

49 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Ehh, I understand frustration, but I don't co-sign recklessness. I don't think Rosen's book has been written, he was in a terrible situation last year, but I wouldn't just throw him out there with no preparation. That's how you ruin a young QB.

 

And what's really reckless is trading away a significant draft asset to put a young QB in a bad situation, when the team should have their eye on doing everything they can to be in position to draft a new QB if they need to. 

 

So I think the team's best option now is Brissett, and I think their best chances of drafting a franchise level guy involve keeping that WAS #2 in 2020.

 

Also, the comparison to Dalton doesn't work for me. Brissett hasn't had anywhere near the kind of opportunity that Dalton had early in his career. The last time Brissett started, it was for a bad coaching staff, with a team he didn't know. If he's bad this year, I'm fine with moving on. But I think he should be giving a chance before you assume he represents 'reveling in mediocrity.'

 

Lastly, Ballard's operation is not going to embrace mediocrity, at any level. Luck or not.

 

Why could Andrew Luck lift that team to playoff contention but Jacoby won 4 games? Luck is the guy to get you that SB title, Jacoby is not. That's why. Go big or go home, and no it's not a bad analogy to comp Jacoby to Dalton, whether you "co-sign" or not. Both guys are average, that's just the way it is. If you have an opportunity to get a guy that NFL Scouts thought was a great pro prospect in Josh Rosen, then you take that chance. Teams were willing to invest a high first round pick on him, but we can't give essentially a free 2nd rounder? It's thought processes like that that leave teams frozen in the middle of the pack. I do agree with you that Ballard won't stay in the mediocre zone. Most likely scenario is that Brissett has the only kind of season a guy of his caliber his capable of having: an average one. The Colts finish middle of the pack, trade up to acquire one of Herbert or Tua, or if lucky, Fromm falls to them in the 10-15 range of the draft. I don't think it's probable that Rosen ends up in Indy, it's actually damn near impossible. Like 98% of everything else everyone throws around on this site, it was a fictional scenario with a small chance to develop. You want some really outlandish takes, go into the Luck retirement thread, it's like the National Enquirer developed a fan forum. 

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12 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

That logic is faulty.  Brady was a 6th round pick...how did his ceiling end up?  Try again. 

 

C'mon man. That's like saying Arian Foster is the rule, not the exception, by being a standout RB as an UDFA. The percentage of players that are successful falls drastically as the draft capital lowers, as you'd expect it to. Players taken inside the Top 100 of the NFL Draft have around a 73% chance to return high end production at some point in their careers. The number for UDFAs is around 3%. Draft capital matters. 

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13 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

Guys that are much more adept at evaluating quarterbacks than myself, I guess. They had him as a 1st round guy, and Brissett as a 3rd. There are intangibles I'd imagine they look at, but no I couldn't break out it down for you like they could. My thing was, give Rosen a shot, if he fails then go in another direction. Rosen hasn't ever played with the talent or coaching that currently resides in Indy. 

 

Why could Andrew Luck lift that team to playoff contention but Jacoby won 4 games? Luck is the guy to get you that SB title, Jacoby is not. That's why. Go big or go home, and no it's not a bad analogy to comp Jacoby to Dalton, whether you "co-sign" or not. Both guys are average, that's just the way it is. If you have an opportunity to get a guy that NFL Scouts thought was a great pro prospect in Josh Rosen, then you take that chance. Teams were willing to invest a high first round pick on him, but we can't give essentially a free 2nd rounder? It's thought processes like that that leave teams frozen in the middle of the pack. I do agree with you that Ballard won't stay in the mediocre zone. Most likely scenario is that Brissett has the only kind of season a guy of his caliber his capable of having: an average one. The Colts finish middle of the pack, trade up to acquire one of Herbert or Tua, or if lucky, Fromm falls to them in the 10-15 range of the draft. I don't think it's probable that Rosen ends up in Indy, it's actually damn near impossible. Like 98% of everything else everyone throws around on this site, it was a fictional scenario with a small chance to develop. You want some really outlandish takes, go into the Luck retirement thread, it's like the National Enquirer developed a fan forum. 

Rosen was terrible last year and then traded.   Using your logic Ryan Leaf should have been better than Tom Brady.    Don't come with where a player was drafted.   Do a little digging.   Goodness

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11 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

C'mon man. That's like saying Arian Foster is the rule, not the exception, by being a standout RB as an UDFA. The percentage of players that are successful falls drastically as the draft capital lowers, as you'd expect it to. Players taken inside the Top 100 of the NFL Draft have around a 73% chance to return high end production at some point in their careers. The number for UDFAs is around 3%. Draft capital matters. 

Jacoby was taken inside the top 100 by a team that has arguably the best qb ever still winning super bowls

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8 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

Go big or go home, and no it's not a bad analogy to comp Jacoby to Dalton, whether you "co-sign" or not. Both guys are average, that's just the way it is. 

 

How do we know Jacoby is average? We have no clue how good or bad he'll be. In 2017 he had 1 week to learn the offense and his team before being thrown to the wolves.In the 4th quarter we told the defense if it was run or pass by the formation we were in. 2017 did prove one thing about Jacoby, he can take a beating. Dalton has had years of starting experience, Jacoby just 15 games.

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We just need to see what happens

 

1) We tank...... we get top QB

 

2) We are mediocre...... We MAY bring in a QB in round one or two to compete

 

3) We are a playoff team........  With this schedule, that means that JB (or Kelly) led us there

 

4) We are a SB team........ NAH

 

Its too early to panic......

 

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5 hours ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

Some friends and myself have been throwing around the idea. Send the Dolphins the Redskins 2nd for Josh Rosen. The kid is still really talented, he's just been dealt probably the worst hand I can remember for a QB drafted in the early first. Maybe Ballard/Reich are set on rolling with Brissett to see what's there, but I know in the back of their minds they know this isn't the guy that's gonna bring another SB to Indianapolis. Why not take the flier on Rosen, and if he's awful, then take Herbert, Tua, or Fromm in the 2020 draft. It's a win-win. 

1.  Miami didn’t trade for him just to trade him again in the same season unless the Colts do something dumb like offer a first for him.  Also, he won’t come cheap as Miami gave up a second for him and don’t seem to want to move him.  The only way they would trade him is if they get significantly more than what they gave up for him.

 

2.  Like it or not the Colts feel Jacoby has the skills to be a starter and they are going to give him a chance to prove it.  It doesn’t matter how any of us feel about it that’s what they are going to do.

 

3.  You aren’t just taking a flyer on Rosen if you bring him in.  He’s under contract and still has time on that contract so you either have to commit to him for that contract or pretty much waste money, whatever you gave up to give him and then spend another valuable assist to replace him.  

 

4.  If they traded for him now you are putting him in the same spot Jacoby was in his first year here.  He won’t know the offense.  That’s not really a good way to judge someone.  It’s not madden where you just make a trade and they are good to go right away.

 

5.  You don’t know what’s in Ballard or Reich’s minds.  None of us do.  That’s what you think and that’s fine you are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to speak your opinions as if they are someone else’s as if they are fact.  All we have to go on is what they have been saying about Brissett which is they believe in him and they think he’s a top 20 QB in the NFL.  Remember Reich won a Super Bowl as an OC with a guy like that in Foles.  Ballard has been trying to build a team that doesn’t have to have an elite QB to win.  So I take them at their word about Jacoby.

 

6.  If your plan is to just draft someone if this years starter doesn’t work out the smarter thing to do is play out this year with the guy who is going into his third year on your team and has spent all off-season getting the starters reps and is in the last year of his deal.  Then if he doesn’t workout you let him walk and draft a guy to replace him all without giving anything up.  That’s a better plan than trade for a guy who still has lots of time on his deal and say hey you have a week to learn the offense go and no pressure but if you aren’t elite by the end of the year we are going to dump you for someone else.  

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3 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

We just need to see what happens

 

1) We tank...... we get top QB

 

2) We are mediocre...... We MAY bring in a QB in round one or two to compete

 

3) We are a playoff team........  With this schedule, that means that JB (or Kelly) led us there

 

4) We are a SB team........ NAH

 

Its too early to panic......

 

You know it’s possible for a team to just not be good and get a top pick and not have to tank to do it.

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4 hours ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

 

Every mock I've seen has the Dolphins going Tua at 1. I understand these things are far from concrete, but we have to go with the most likely conclusion when dealing in hypotheticals. 

Every mock of season that hasn’t even started based off players that haven’t even been scouted yet?

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10 minutes ago, HectorRoberts said:

Every mock of season that hasn’t even started based off players that haven’t even been scouted yet?

They have been scouted but they haven’t played this year either.  No one had either of the last two number one over all picks going number one overall until they played their last college seasons so your overall point remains valid.

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14 hours ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

Why could Andrew Luck lift that team to playoff contention but Jacoby won 4 games?

 

Is this a real question?

 

Quote

Go big or go home

 

Great sound bite, awful team building strategy.

 

Quote

no it's not a bad analogy to comp Jacoby to Dalton

 

It's a terrible analogy. Brissett hasn't had a reasonable set of circumstances so far. He does now. Let's see what he does with it. 

 

Quote

 

Both guys are average

...

If you have an opportunity to get a guy that NFL Scouts thought was a great pro prospect in Josh Rosen, then you take that chance.

 

 

Rosen was awful last year. It's interesting that you're writing off Brissett, but gassing up Rosen. Brissett had worse circumstances in 2017, and still outperformed Rosen's rookie year.

 

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Most likely scenario is that Brissett has the only kind of season a guy of his caliber his capable of having: an average one. 

 

You might have noticed that I've never been one to pretend that Brissett is a star in the making. But I'm not bailing on him before he even gets a chance.

 

Quote

trade up to acquire one of Herbert or Tua, or if lucky, Fromm falls to them in the 10-15 range of the draft.

 

They're in much better shape to do that if they keep that WAS #2 in the 2020 draft. Which is why a measured approach is superior to a 'go big or go home to make fans think you're all in on a championship' approach.

 

Doing it right is better than doing it right now.

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10 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

You know it’s possible for a team to just not be good and get a top pick and not have to tank to do it.

 

For this team to have a top pick without trading up then that would mean the Colts tanked. This roster is too talented to end up with top pick without tanking. It’s no where near the roster we had in the “Suck for Luck” season or 2017..

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5 minutes ago, ThinBlueLineColts said:

 

For this team to have a top pick without trading up then that would mean the Colts tanked. This roster is too talented to end up with top pick without tanking. It’s no where near the roster we had in the “Suck for Luck” season or 2017..

I’ve stood by NFL teams don’t tank.  People get fired if you were to tank.  Same with players they get replaced and lose their jobs.  That’s why I don’t buy into tanking in the NFL.  Sometimes a team like the 2011 Colts earns the top pick because they just aren’t very good.  That’s the only point I was trying to make, not so much talk about this Colts team specifically.

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2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I’ve stood by NFL teams don’t tank.  People get fired if you were to tank.  Same with players they get replaced and lose their jobs.  That’s why I don’t buy into tanking in the NFL.  Sometimes a team like the 2011 Colts earns the top pick because they just aren’t very good.  That’s the only point I was trying to make, not so much talk about this Colts team specifically.

 

I gotcha. That 2011 roster was terrible. Same with 2017. Several on tv were saying without Peyton and Luck we were one of the bottom handful of rosters in the league. No argument here. I was just making the point that I think of this roster ends up with a top pick we tanked. Better defense, OL, weapons, coaching is all upgraded. 

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Josh Rosen is average, based on everything I have seen of him so far. If you think he is an upgrade over what we have because of his college reputation or because of his draft status, we could be sadly mistaken. It wasn't just Kyler Murray that made him expendable, it is Josh Rosen's QB level of play that made him expendable and that also did not let him beat out Ryan Fitzpatrick with the Dolphins despite having a full TC to beat him out. 

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6 minutes ago, ThinBlueLineColts said:

 

I gotcha. That 2011 roster was terrible. Same with 2017. Several on tv were saying without Peyton and Luck we were one of the bottom handful of rosters in the league. No argument here. I was just making the point that I think of this roster ends up with a top pick we tanked. Better defense, OL, weapons, coaching is all upgraded. 

I am with you in that I think this is a much better team which is why I don’t expect them to have to a top overall pick in the draft.

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7 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Josh Rosen is average, based on everything I have seen of him so far. If you think he is an upgrade over what we have because of his college reputation or because of his draft status, we could be sadly mistaken. It wasn't just Kyler Murray that made him expendable, it is Josh Rosen's QB level of play that made him expendable and that also did not let him beat out Ryan Fitzpatrick with the Dolphins despite having a full TC to beat him out. 

 

I don't know what Josh Rosen is. He had a terrible situation in Arizona, and Ryan Fitzpatrick has been outplaying young QBs for eight years now. I'm open minded on what he'll be, but I disagree with the notion that he's a surefire upgrade over anyone we already have.

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