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HOF19

JMV having traces of doubt in his opinion on this situation

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3 hours ago, Turftoe said:

A couple of responses on things discussed already:

 

- Someone mentioned Luck's demeanor at the podium Saturday evening, I thought it seemed really odd too.  Very awkward and rambling.  Overall he seemed very sullen yet acted perfectly fine on the sidelines during the game.  I don't know what to make of it.  Perhaps he is still in a "dark" or "fragile" state of mind?

 

- If he is dealing with mental/psych issues (as many people do), it could explain the vague explanations about his situation over the past weeks and months. Typically with pro athletes there's not a lot of privacy concerns about injuries, the public is told the nature and extent of the problem.  I can see that NOT happening with mental issues - the player would be much more private or secretive about letting that info out.

 

You can easily explain that.  He made his decision was trying to enjoy his last day on the sidelines of LOS as much as possible and then when he had to go tell the fans he was sullen and sad because he knew he was disappointing them.  

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18 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

They also know not to invite controversy by saying anything else.  Maybe they are 100% behind Luck which is fine but even if they aren’t they aren’t going to say it.

 

To paraphrase Reich from yesterday...this is a paradox.


Every player LOVES Luck as a person and wants him to be happy.

Every player HATES Luck for abandoning the team when they need him most.

 

Depending on their individual relationship with Luck they may have more hate than love but every player 100% has a little of both right now.

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12 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

Perhaps the lad is telling the truth. John Grisham could not pen some of the theories being banded around. I also think we should give Brissett some playing time before we start crying in our cornflakes. Where is all the admiration for Ballard and Reich's philosophy gone? Or has it always just been about the QB? I am going to hope we are still on the way up, at least until I see otherwise.

Yeah, I haven't jumped on the doom and gloom wagon just yet.

This team has great talent regardless of who the QB is.

We are going to see if Ballards trade for Brissett is going to pay off.

 

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20 hours ago, HOF19 said:

Yup ….I mean the way Luck looked in that work out they had the know the fan base would get an opinion leaning more in the direction that he was gonna be ok from what we saw from that work out ….And like Venturi said that was shown on National TV !

He said he was still in pain too just was trying to enjoy what at that point was the last time he would work out before a nationally televised game now im sure the injuries were not the only reason he is seemingly a little bit messed up mentally right now too also wont  help this team win moving forward so what he did was unselfish.

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Losing always brings out dissent. Should this team start very slowly and I sure hope it doesn't you're going to see a lot more people voice their true opinions on the subject. Right now everyone is toeing the team line. 

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I have heard lots of interesting rumors in last 3 days. That no injury currently exists at all. That all of this has been between Luck's ears. That he was scheduled to practice starting yesterday as of early last week. That the Management tried to give him outs as far as take a few weeks off, Go on IR, get your head clear and come back. That Luck wanted to leave team and go to Hawaii for 2-3 months(which is interesting since by accounts, the medical staff has said there is no injury). Interesting because after every injury in past what did he do.....Went elsewhere to heal.That and buckle up for this, the Colts may have been ready to move on from him and this drama. 

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21 hours ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

I'm pretty skeptical about any "I'm not really retiring, I just need more time off" theory.  So let me put that out there first.

 

But, that said, if there is truth to this or something like it, can somebody explain to me how the Colts' rights to Andrew would play out?  

 

 

Colts own the right to Luck (after granted reinstatement) for the amount of time that was left on his contract when he retired.   If that was 2 seasons, then Colts have his rights for 2 seasons once reinstated.

 

20 hours ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Was he married at some point during his shoulder recovery?

 

Earlier this year in Prague.

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How long does it normally last?  All the conjecture? And then the constant dissecting and re-dissecting of all the conjecture? And the claims that so and so says he go it from a source. That could be your grandmother, a drug addict on the street, or off the men's room wall. Everthing, everybody can be a 'source'.

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20 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I read on here someone called into a local radio show this off-season and said he hurt it snowboarding again.  Clearly that is not what I would call a credible source but at this point I can’t dismiss it either.  

 

When Luck admitted to his non-football snowboard incident, he suffered an Acromioclavicular joint separation, but he had already suffered the football related Labrum tear.  He promised to never to do that again.

 

If he suffered an injury outside of football this time, Colts would be required to list the injury as NFI.  It was not.  Also, to be placed on IR, the team must file (with medical staff papers) that said player is injured to a point of not being able to practice for at least 6 weeks.  It's reported this scenario was offered, and rejected.

 

And he won't play for XFL (likely prohibited anyway).  I'm not even sure he would even help his dad in running it.  He and his wife are both Stanford Architectural design  graduates from Stanford school of engineering.  They'll be fine, without football, or gymnastics.

 

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2 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

When Luck admitted to his non-football snowboard incident, he suffered an Acromioclavicular joint separation, but he had already suffered the football related Labrum tear.  He promised to never to do that again.

 

If he suffered an injury outside of football this time, Colts would be required to list the injury as NFI.  It was not.  Also, to be placed on IR, the team must file (with medical staff papers) that said player is injured to a point of not being able to practice for at least 6 weeks.  It's reported this scenario was offered, and rejected.

 

And he won't play for XFL.  I'm not even sure he's help his dad in running it.  He and his wife are both Stanford Architectural design  graduates from Stanford school of engineering.  They'll be fine, without football, or gymnastics.

 

Yeah that had nothing to do with what I was talking about.  I didn’t even bring up the XFL.  I’ve never said a word about that other than to say he has noncompete clause that would prevent it.  

 

All I did was repeat a story that was stated on here that MIGHT explain where his injury came from.  I’ve also gone out of my way to say it might not be true.  

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4 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

When Luck admitted to his non-football snowboard incident, he suffered an Acromioclavicular joint separation, but he had already suffered the football related Labrum tear.  He promised to never to do that again.

 

If he suffered an injury outside of football this time, Colts would be required to list the injury as NFI.  It was not.  Also, to be placed on IR, the team must file (with medical staff papers) that said player is injured to a point of not being able to practice for at least 6 weeks.  It's reported this scenario was offered, and rejected.

 

And he won't play for XFL.  I'm not even sure he's help his dad in running it.  He and his wife are both Stanford Architectural design  graduates from Stanford school of engineering.  They'll be fine, without football, or gymnastics.

 

So we probably won't be seeing a go fund me page for the Luck family. Lol!

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My whole view is Andrew always viewed football as a job more than a passion. He loved it because he was good not the other way around.

 

I would guess he got injured again outside of football, but not to the point to prevent him from playing. Like the nagging wrist injury you have that seems to flare up with dull pain every once in a while. And since it wasn't debilitating the medical staff just have him pain meds to deal with it. Since he's dealt with that, and he fell into a dark place from injury before, he promised himself he'd never go that route again. Being newly married, and with a kid on the way he probably questioned if he really wants to put his life outside of football on hold to prevent anythjng from happening. 

 

He's worn down from being injured, probably everyday, for the past 4 years. He wants to enjoy the new life that's on the way soon. And he's going to get beat up again if he keeps playing that will likely require the rehab and treatment he endured before that he clearly doesn't view positively.

 

The management gave him the time to reset his head, most likely last week. Hoping that when he comes back he falls in love with football again. He went into that practice knowing he didn't love the game and didn't expect it to invigorated his need to play again. Hence thinking it was probably his last time throwing.

 

I don't blame him. You have enough money for multiple lifetimes, and you aren't in love with your career anymore. I'd probably make the same exact decision. He has more important areas of life than football. It's just a damn game.

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As someone who struggles with depression and anxiety I can understand the mental aspect of it. I also understand the desire to cut things out of your life that trigger those feelings. He went into a dark place during his shoulder injury rehab, he made it through and I just think he never wants to go there again and he knows that another injury like that could happen anytime. 

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20 hours ago, Blueblood23 said:

So we probably won't be seeing a go fund me page for the Luck family. Lol!

 

LOL, I guess not!  We all know about Andrew to a degree, but now I even know more about his athlete (and another braniac) wife.

 

She also earned an MBA at IU's Kelley School of Business. Prior to her current roles as field producer with NBC Sports and ESPN, Pechanec’s work experience also includes NBC Olympics, USA Gymnastics, NASA, and Chegg.

 

In her younger days, she represented the Czech Republic in World gymnastics competitions as

 

Nicole Pechancova

 

 

I understand she even had a move on the uneven bars she created,

 

EDIT: found it "She invented a twisting release move on the high bar (of the uneven bars) when she was 15 and used it later in World Championships. In gymnastics tradition, if you invent a move and use it at the Olympics or Worlds, it's named after you."  It's called the Pechancova.

 

But she is now known here in the U.S. as Nicole Pechanec, Andrew Luck's new wife. She had also reached 2 NCAA finals as captain of gymnastics team while at Stanford. She even reportedly brought out the "Pechancova" a couple of times too.

 

Pechanec competed at the 2006 World Championships in Aarhus, Denmark, and the 2007 Worlds in Stuttgart, Germany. She made the all-around finals at the 2007 European Championships in Amsterdam, where she finished 21st.

 

Pechanec's best results in World Cup competitions include first place on balance beam and second place on floor exercise at the World Cup of Ostrava, Czech Republic (2007); second place on floor exercise at the Glasgow Grand * (2007); and fifth place on balance beam and sixth place on floor exercise at the World Cup of Maribor, Slovenia (2007).

 

She is  currently a field producer at NBC Sports and ESPN. It is clear both of these two are not only stellar athletes but very smart and extremely well educated. And they are having a child.  (Makes me wonder if another future star athlete is being formed). I do wish them well in their future together.  And doubt we ever see her competing on the balance beam (or floor, uneven bars, or vault), or Andrew playing professionally on the Gridiron ever again.

 

But it seems they can be/are a great support system for each other. I wish them the best, and in raising their offspring in the great Circle City.

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I knew lite about Luck's girlfriend (now wife). After reading the above post I now understand the Prague wedding.  Czech Republic has many beautiful women - I'd quit football for one of them too.

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4 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Yeah, I haven't jumped on the doom and gloom wagon just yet.

This team has great talent regardless of who the QB is.

We are going to see if Ballards trade for Brissett is going to pay off.

 

 

I always anticipated that the move was to create real value at some point. By real I mean measurable. You can't measure the backup qb role, even though it's obviously valuable. You can draft picks and production. Outside of 2017, and even up to the point of Andrew's announcement, I thought bringing him on was to create real value out of him... I just didn't anticipate that value would be to try and develop him into our franchise quarterback. But here we are... 

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On 8/26/2019 at 5:55 PM, Superman said:

 

We aren't entitled to know every little detail about every situation, and know one should expect full disclosure the very minute a player starts thinking about walking away.

 

People are playing with conspiracy theories because they can't reconcile the fact that a great player in his prime would walk away from the game two weeks before the season starts. I get it, it's strange and shocking, but the official version of events isn't so outrageous that it can't be true. 

 

The idea that the team made up a calf/ankle injury that lingered all offseason to give Luck time to decide whether he was going to play or not is more outrageous than Luck retiring abruptly.

Indeed. 

 

When Luck left the Pro Bowl he was more excited than ever to have a rehab free off-season, in his own words.  Ballard told him to completely get away and enjoy himself and unplug from football. Everything seemingly perfect.  THEN, Somewhere on the road to zen something happens with his leg, that's the mystery meat here.  How did the damn thing get injured and why won't anyone speak of it?  I agree we don't need all the details but if this is the cause of the entire episode could somebody come clean? Was he playing pick up soccer in Europe, hiking the Andes, like..what happened???  You don't get nerve damage / high ankle sprain at the movies (unless perhaps you leaped violently when Cap grabbed Mjolnir) but I digress.  

 

I can't see a scenario where this is all mental and everyone plays chicken to the bitter end, that just doesn't fit with this clan.  What fits to me is he hurt himself, again, in the off-season doing something he enjoyed.  Then the weight of that mistake, plus the rehab, plus the pain, plus the constraints made him exit stage left (that's your two cartoon references for the night).  

 

We definitely don't know the whole truth here, I can also see pain meds playing a role in this somehow that's me pontificating...

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2 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

I always anticipated that the move was to create real value at some point. By real I mean measurable. You can't measure the backup qb role, even though it's obviously valuable. You can draft picks and production. Outside of 2017, and even up to the point of Andrew's announcement, I thought bringing him on was to create real value out of him... I just didn't anticipate that value would be to try and develop him into our franchise quarterback. But here we are... 

Brissett has been taking first team reps so at this point, I wouldn't want anyone else.

This is a much different team than it was in 2017 so I'm not going to pre judge him going into this season.

I am curious to how long a leash he will have on him with Kelly in the wings? 

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11 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Brissett has been taking first team reps so at this point, I wouldn't want anyone else.

This is a much different team than it was in 2017 so I'm not going to pre judge him going into this season.

I am curious to how long a leash he will have on him with Kelly in the wings? 

 

I agree... It would be a huge mistake going with anyone else. I just would have never dreamed of this after last season.

 

I think the leash will be somewhat long. If you give up on Brissett by mid season, and Kelly goes in and struggles just as bad or worse, this team is in dumpster fire mode. I can not even begin think that will be the case. I think this season is JB's unless he's hurt. And I think we will compete much like early on last year. We will just have to figure out how to close and win games with JB, and like last year, that could take some time. If we start strong, hold on. 

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This is a interesting take on why lucks retirement makes sense. He has a couple things he talks about that Luck told him.

 

 

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Listen, I don't think there's a conspiracy here. 

 

What I think happened is that Luck suffered a mild calf injury, but it either wasn't treated correctly initially/didn't heal and it complicated (much like lower leg injuries do) into three separate things working in unison--so even if you treat one, you still are dealing with the other two--and they're all causing pain so it's hard to know what exactly you're treating. 

 

A report said Luck can walk normally in every day life relatively pain free. However, I think he didn't want to exasperate the issue any further by playing professional football and perhaps making things worse than they already are (by putting more physical strain on it, opponents twisting it during a tackle, etc.).

 

I don't think the anti-inflammtory thing is as much that he's worried about drug addiction, as much as he doesn't want to spend the rest of his life dependent on anti-inflammatories in everyday life--should the condition worsen. 

 

The dark days of 2016-017 to me were less about drug addition, and more that I think Luck played through pain (cracked ribs, etc.) in order to save other people's jobs. He felt responsible for saving Pagano's job, Grigson's job, and tried his best to get his teams to the playoffs because he's their best player and he was good enough to carry them pretty damn close to the finish line. That's a ton of strain to put on yourself when you solely feel responsible for everyone. Luck even said in his presser, "I promised then that I wouldn't do that to myself again" or something to that effect. 

 

I also think just constantly rehabbing and getting close to the end only to experience setbacks, only to start a new one entirely would be pretty draining. You tend to be isolated in those situations and away from the team. It's like getting ready to scale a mountain, but never making it--only to start from the bottom again. 

 

I also think that Luck has had so many lingering injuries as of late that even if he rehabbed this one, who's to say another issue wouldn't pop up? 

 

If there's an actual conspiracy here, I'd venture to say it's more like Luck is still experiencing pain with his throwing shoulder or knows that he's lost some zip on his fastball. Something physical that's still working in combination with the ankle. 

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While I know we're not "entitled" to all the detail, the lack of detail opens things up for speculation. I'd also say that the FO and the players are not "entitled" to blind faith and devotion. It's a two way street. Want to keep the details out of the public view? Fine no problem. But don't complain when the media and fans are spit balling 101 tin foil hat theories. 

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14 hours ago, Rally5 said:

(unless perhaps you leaped violently when Cap grabbed Mjolnir

 

I did. One of the best payoffs of the entire franchise, and perfectly executed, I think. But somehow, I doubt Andrew has seen that movie...

 

Quote

Somewhere on the road to zen something happens with his leg, that's the mystery meat here.  How did the damn thing get injured and why won't anyone speak of it?  I agree we don't need all the details but if this is the cause of the entire episode could somebody come clean? 

 

Ballard said it's something that had lingered throughout last season. I don't find that hard to believe.

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10 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I'd also say that the FO and the players are not "entitled" to blind faith and devotion.

 

I would never suggest that they are. My opinion is that there are certain things the fans won't know, and I've made my peace with that. 

 

But when those facts aren't disclosed, people fill the void with nonsense. And I guess that's a natural response, but it bugs me when that nonsense is presented as anything more than conjecture. People are stating things like 'Luck hid this injury for months' and 'Luck decided a long time ago' as if they're fact. I should probably just get over it, but that bothers me.

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14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I would never suggest that they are. My opinion is that there are certain things the fans won't know, and I've made my peace with that. 

 

But when those facts aren't disclosed, people fill the void with nonsense. And I guess that's a natural response, but it bugs me when that nonsense is presented as anything more than conjecture. People are stating things like 'Luck hid this injury for months' and 'Luck decided a long time ago' as if they're fact. I should probably just get over it, but that bothers me.

 

Exactly.  It often appears people chose to create a narrative to rationalize their feelings.  I stated my perspective from what has come out, and I posted about it in another thread.  I'm moving on, and will try not to let the conspiracies dampen my mood.

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 He QUIT because he is Rich, young, healthy, and doesn't have the Heart for the game. That is reason enough.
 I think about what TY and others went through physically last season and showed up on Sundays, and how this guy hung around to pick up his $12M roster bonus, stuck it to fans that wore his jersey, bought tickets for the coming season.
 There is a sleeze factor to what he did. Boo if that is what you want IMO, i believe it sucks the way he did the Franchise. I am guessing his wife, agent, and financial planner is very proud of him  

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On 8/26/2019 at 4:34 PM, zibby43 said:

JMV broke the news about Manning's neck injury a few years ago.  He's usually pretty reliable.

 

JMV mentioned yesterday (on-air) that he was told by a source that Luck asked Ballard and co. if he could step away from the team and rehab in Hawaii for 3 months.

 

Ballard refused.  And I respect Ballard for refusing.  That would've been unfair to Jacoby, the team, etc.  Flies in the face of his philosophy about the team being about more than just one man.

What? I hope that is false! Luck is/was a great QB but even the greatest like Manning,Brees, or Brady wouldn’t ask for something like that! AND THEY EARNED IT! 

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5 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

how this guy hung around to pick up his $12M roster bonus

 

That bonus was guaranteed in March. He didn't have to hang around for it.

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On 8/26/2019 at 5:45 PM, Superman said:

I like how people just make stuff up, and then start peddling it as anything more than the product of their imagination.

 

Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed at how many people are taking a page out of threeflights' playbook and running with it...  :wall:

 

This forum is turning into a full-blown rumor-mill.  :( 

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As someone who has suffered with chronic pain for 2/s of his life and which started in my mid 20's due to an accident I think there is another piece of the puzzle that has been overlooked(at least I have not seen it mentioned). There are the past injuries which Luck may or may not still suffer from to some degree. There was the present injury, with which he was still suffering. AND THEN there is the risk and concern of  possible future injuries of resulting in unknown magnitude and pain that would require an unknown amount of rehab.  And what would be the lasting symptoms or pain (ie, chronic pain) for the rest of his life.

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28 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

There is a sleeze factor to what he did. Boo if that is what you want IMO, i believe it sucks the way he did the Franchise. I am guessing his wife, agent, and financial planner is very proud of him

 

Look, nobody knows all the facts, so nobody really has an informed opinion about this.

 

But think about this:  if Luck was considering retirement earlier than a few weeks ago, the Colts would want to delay his retirement as long as possible to give him time to change his mind and keep playing.  It's in the best interest of the Colts to have Andrew Luck playing QB for them, so the timing of his retirement may not necessarily be on Luck, it may be more on Ballard for holding out hope Luck would change his mind before the season started.

 

You just don't know enough to crucify Luck, and on the flip side of that coin, I don't know enough to give him a pass.  While we're all unhappy with the situation, we should wait for more facts before coming to any conclusions about Luck.

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10 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Look, nobody knows all the facts, so nobody really has an informed opinion about this.

 

But think about this:  if Luck was considering retirement earlier than a few weeks ago, the Colts would want to delay his retirement as long as possible to give him time to change his mind and keep playing.  It's in the best interest of the Colts to have Andrew Luck playing QB for them, so the timing of his retirement may not necessarily be on Luck, it may be more on Ballard for holding out hope Luck would change his mind before the season started.

 

You just don't know enough to crucify Luck, and on the flip side of that coin, I don't know enough to give him a pass.  While we're all unhappy with the situation, we should wait for more facts before coming to any conclusions about Luck.

 

 He made up his mind he wouldn't go through those difficult times again.
It's football. Quarterbacks playing behind the best lines in history Still take a pounding. Their is no joy in Mudeville, the Mighty Luck has walked out.
 He had an ouchy in his leg. The guy did what Manning did. He got as much $$$ as he could while holding all the marbles. Until Ballard cut him off. It is Business.
 We get that Irsay still has control over him under the rules. That didn't come cheap.

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2 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 He made up his mind he wouldn't go through those difficult times again.
It's football. Quarterbacks playing behind the best lines in history Still take a pounding. Their is no joy in Mudeville, the Mighty Luck has walked out.
 He had an ouchy in his leg. The guy did what Manning did. He got as much $$$ as he could while holding all the marbles. Until Ballard cut him off. It is Business.
 We get that Irsay still has control over him under the rules. That didn't come cheap.

 

Nowhere in that incoherent rambling did I find a point.  haha

 

You do realize Luck could have conned the Colts out of even more money if that was his goal, right?

 

Why do you even care about the money?  It's not your money and it isn't impeding the Colts as a team at all...  It's not like we're up against the cap, we still have more free money...  :dunno:

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On 8/27/2019 at 1:09 PM, Mitch Connors said:

Every player HATES Luck for abandoning the team when they need him most.

 

I head David Diehl (have you heard of him?) on NFL radio this morning talking with Bob Papa.  He said he had just talked to 9 current Colts, and said not a single one of them hates or was 'mad' at Luck. None. I think they (Colts players) were upset about some of the fans booing Luck though...

 

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2019/08/26/andrew-luck-retires-colts-fans-boo-players/2123019001/

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3 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I head David Diehl (have you heard of him?) on NFL radio this morning talking with Bob Papa.  He said he had just talked to 9 current Colts, and said not a single one of them hates or was 'mad' at Luck. None. They were upset about some of the fans booing Luck though...

 

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2019/08/26/andrew-luck-retires-colts-fans-boo-players/2123019001/

Bob Papa is the NY version of Bob Lamey he has been doing play-by-play for Giants radio for at least 20 years . Here in NY Diehl is one of the most trusted AND regarded NFL analyst (Has Super Bowl ring as a Giants player ).

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23 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I head David Diehl (have you heard of him?) on NFL radio this morning talking with Bob Papa.  He said he had just talked to 9 current Colts, and said not a single one of them hates or was 'mad' at Luck. None. They were upset about some of the fans booing Luck though...

 

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2019/08/26/andrew-luck-retires-colts-fans-boo-players/2123019001/

I have heard of David Diehl assuming its the lineman from the Giants years ago. Wasnt he the guy who married Coughlins daughter?

 

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34 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

I have heard of David Diehl assuming its the lineman from the Giants years ago.

 

Yes, that's the guy, with 2 SB's vs. Patriots.

 

34 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

Wasnt he the guy who married Coughlins daughter?

 

 

I thought that was Chris Snee?

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36 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Yes, that's the guy, with 2 SB's vs. Patriots.

 

 

I thought that was Chris Snee?

 Quick Google search confirmed you are correct - Chris Snee married Coughlins daughter. Nice memory.

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7 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I would never suggest that they are. My opinion is that there are certain things the fans won't know, and I've made my peace with that. 

 

But when those facts aren't disclosed, people fill the void with nonsense. And I guess that's a natural response, but it bugs me when that nonsense is presented as anything more than conjecture. People are stating things like 'Luck hid this injury for months' and 'Luck decided a long time ago' as if they're fact. I should probably just get over it, but that bothers me.

 

I'm at peace with it too. I'm also at peace knowing that it's natural for people to try and understand what they don't know. It does bother me as well if it's pure tin foil stuff. 

 

What are your thought on DD's claim Luck and Hawaii? Full disclosure, I dislike DD (a lot), but I'm not sure he would lie about something like that.

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12 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I'm at peace with it too. I'm also at peace knowing that it's natural for people to try and understand what they don't know. It does bother me as well if it's pure tin foil stuff. 

 

What are your thought on DD's claim Luck and Hawaii? Full disclosure, I dislike DD (a lot), but I'm not sure he would lie about something like that.

 

I need evidence that it's based in fact before I'll even think about it. 

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