JMV having traces of doubt in his opinion on this situation

[HOF19]

3 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

 

 

In what universe does this make sense?

 

Eli is at the end of the road, and he is limping to his own finish in an ugly way. He should play what? MAYBE one more year beyond this one? He honestly doesn’t improve this team’s chances any over Brissett, and Brissett has the advantage of knowing the system.

 

There is 0 spin to put on an Eli trade making sense. 

This is looking like one of those stories that seems to make sports media people all warm and fuzzy for some reason .

[zibby43]

1 hour ago, shastamasta said:

 

Do the rehab now or that he asked earlier this offseason?

 

Before.  Rumor has popped up a few times now.

 

Also a rumor that Luck pretty much "mailed in" his calf/ankle rehab this time around.

 

As someone that is an "average" healer that tore all of my ankle ligaments (twice) while playing college baseball (basically, the worst "high ankle sprains" you can suffer), I started to have serious concerns about what was going with Luck when he still wasn't ready by August.

 

I didn't have anywhere near the resources Luck has available (I had stimulation therapy, cold tub treatment, and pain management), and I missed about 6 weeks.

 

I 100% believe, from all the circumstantial evidence available, that Luck's issues are mental in nature, not physical.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Turftoe said:

To be fair, a lot of this could be avoided if the parties involved had been upfront and forthcoming about things.

 

We aren't entitled to know every little detail about every situation, and know one should expect full disclosure the very minute a player starts thinking about walking away.

 

People are playing with conspiracy theories because they can't reconcile the fact that a great player in his prime would walk away from the game two weeks before the season starts. I get it, it's strange and shocking, but the official version of events isn't so outrageous that it can't be true. 

 

The idea that the team made up a calf/ankle injury that lingered all offseason to give Luck time to decide whether he was going to play or not is more outrageous than Luck retiring abruptly.

[zibby43]

Just now, Superman said:

 

We aren't entitled to know every little detail about every situation, and know one should expect full disclosure the very minute a player starts thinking about walking away.

 

People are playing with conspiracy theories because they can't reconcile the fact that a great player in his prime would walk away from the game two weeks before the season starts. I get it, it's strange and shocking, but the official version of events isn't so outrageous that it can't be true. 

 

The idea that the team made up a calf/ankle injury that lingered all offseason to give Luck time to decide whether he was going to play or not is more outrageous than Luck retiring abruptly.

 

Agreed.  It wasn't made up at all.

 

But I don't believe the most recent physical "injuries" were the proximate cause of the retirement. 

 

The mental aspect of dealing with rehab, and Luck's mental state overall was probably the issue.  And Luck 100% controlled the narrative of what the Colts were allowed to discuss (i.e., they discussed the physical component publicly, not the mental one).

 

Makes Irsay's comment about the space between Luck's ears whilst dealing with the shoulder even more poignant and illuminating now.

 

I just hope Andrew gets the mental health treatment and recovery he needs to be a happy human being, first and foremost.  That's the most important issue here, by far.

[18to87]

4 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

 

Before.  Rumor has popped up a few times now.

 

Also a rumor that Luck pretty much "mailed in" his calf/ankle rehab this time around.

 

As someone that is an "average" healer that tore all of my ankle ligaments (twice) while playing college baseball (basically, the worst "high ankle sprains" you can suffer), I started to have serious concerns about what was going with Luck when he still wasn't ready by August.

 

I didn't have anywhere near the resources Luck has available (I had stimulation therapy, cold tub treatment, and pain management), and I missed about 6 weeks.

 

I 100% believe, from all the circumstantial evidence available, that Luck's issues are mental in nature, not physical.

 

I don't know if I 100% agree, but deep down, he must have a craving to be doing something else with his life. There must be another itch he is eager to scratch. Whatever that is, I suspect we won't be finding out about it until next year some time or later. 

[John Waylon]

Here’s another curiosity about this:

 

He worked out before the Browns game because “he felt like it may be the last time to do it at LOS”? 

 

Why not the Bears game? Why didn’t he go out during that warmup and do some stuff? 

 

I don't know. It makes less and less sense all the time. 

[GoColts8818]

2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

The players seem excited to move on but they also seemed 100% behind lucks decision.

They also know not to invite controversy by saying anything else.  Maybe they are 100% behind Luck which is fine but even if they aren’t they aren’t going to say it.

[GoColts8818]

2 hours ago, HOF19 said:

To paraphrase him " Andrew will pay a price for this ". and even said the door is open that down the line " The locker room someday "may have some negativity about this ". And without a doubt seemed not very happy about the timing . From what I have read on this message board and the fact that I do not live in Indy I just kind of had the opinion that JMV was usually 95 % of the time always supported the Colts no matter what and toed the line of whatever line the Colts put out there.....This sounded just a bit rebellious (to me anyway ).

Andrew will lay a price for this.  For better or worse this is how he will be remembered.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

All I know is there is so much more to this story then anyone knows. Sure seems to me it is all mental. None of it makes any sense.

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, zibby43 said:

JMV broke the news about Manning's neck injury a few years ago.  He's usually pretty reliable.

 

JMV mentioned yesterday (on-air) that he was told by a source that Luck asked Ballard and co. if he could step away from the team and rehab in Hawaii for 3 months.

 

Ballard refused.  And I respect Ballard for refusing.  That would've been unfair to Jacoby, the team, etc.  Flies in the face of his philosophy about the team being about more than just one man.

Supports my theory that if Luck does decide to comeback Ballard isn’t going to welcome him back with open arms.  While Ballard is going to do and say the right things I think the timing of this really upsets him and while he might understand why Andrew did what he did Ballard is going to look at what he did and think he quit on us once what would stop him from doing it again.

[shasta519]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

We aren't entitled to know every little detail about every situation, and know one should expect full disclosure the very minute a player starts thinking about walking away.

 

People are playing with conspiracy theories because they can't reconcile the fact that a great player in his prime would walk away from the game two weeks before the season starts. I get it, it's strange and shocking, but the official version of events isn't so outrageous that it can't be true. 

 

The idea that the team made up a calf/ankle injury that lingered all offseason to give Luck time to decide whether he was going to play or not is more outrageous than Luck retiring abruptly.

 

Team didn’t have to make it up if Luck was dictating that info to them. If he says he was still hurting...it’s not like they wouldn’t support him...or call his bluff.

 

And even if they knew about the mental side of it...it’s not like they would have communicated that...but instead focused on the physical part. From what Irsay has said...it does sound like he tried to help Luck with the mental side of it. How along ago that started happening is just something we don’t know...and won’t know.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

We also aren’t going to wait around a year or two and not find our QB. If luck plays again he will be traded and won’t play for the colts.

[luv_pony_express]

20 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

 

To clarify, the rumor was that Luck asked for the time off prior to turning to retirement as the solution.

 

I understand that.  But the subtext of this is that Luck really just wants more time to recharge his batteries and may well end up pulling a Favre.

 

My question is how long (or under what circumstances) the Colts maintain rights to him.  Could that play a role in why the team let him keep the signing and roster bonuses?

[shasta519]

30 minutes ago, Superman said:

I like how people just make stuff up, and then start peddling it as anything more than the product of their imagination.

 

JMV seems to pretty connected and has been right in the past. I don’t know where that stands now...but he did say he had a source tell him this...so it doesn’t seem like he is just making it up. Whether it’s correct or not...we probably won’t know.

[zibby43]

3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Supports my theory that if Luck does decide to comeback Ballard isn’t going to welcome him back with open arms.  While Ballard is going to do and say the right things I think the timing of this really upsets him and while he might understand why Andrew did what he did Ballard is going to look at what he did and think he quit on us once what would stop him from doing it again.

 

Agreed.  That's why I think Ballard reacted the way he did in the presser when Irsay made comments about leaving the door open.  I think that Ballard, to an extent, is exhausted from trying to cater to Luck.

 

Slightly OT: although we're by no means entitled to know the answer to this question, I want to know how Luck hurt his calf and ankle.  He played in the Pro Bowl, a game that players will use the most dubitable of reasons to skip.

 

He started dealing with the injury while he was in Europe.  They initially said it was a "cumulative" injury, but I have rarely seen "chronic" calf/ankle issues pop up (as opposed to acute).  What was he doing in Europe when he felt the pain?  I'd love to know from a per curiosity perspective. 

[Dingus McGirt]

With Luck's education, maybe the SECDEF will offer him a position in the new Space Force at the rank of "Space Cadet."

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, zibby43 said:

 

Agreed.  That's why I think Ballard reacted the way he did in the presser when Irsay made comments about leaving the door open.  I think that Ballard, to an extent, is exhausted from trying to cater to Luck.

 

Slightly OT: although we're by no means entitled to know the answer to this question, I want to know how Luck hurt his calf and ankle.  He played in the Pro Bowl, a game that players will use the most dubitable of reasons to skip.

 

He started dealing with the injury while he was in Europe.  They initially said it was a "cumulative" injury, but I have rarely seen "chronic" calf/ankle issues pop up (as opposed to acute).  What was he doing in Europe when he felt the pain?  I'd love to know from a per curiosity perspective. 

I read on here someone called into a local radio show this off-season and said he hurt it snowboarding again.  Clearly that is not what I would call a credible source but at this point I can’t dismiss it either.  

[zibby43]

7 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

I understand that.  But the subtext of this is that Luck really just wants more time to recharge his batteries and may well end up pulling a Favre.

 

My question is how long (or under what circumstances) the Colts maintain rights to him.  Could that play a role in why the team let him keep the signing and roster bonuses?

 

Good question.  I'm pretty sure I know the answer to that question, but I want to make sure I get both the duration and the available options right.  In the meantime, someone else may beat me to it.

 

[zibby43]

5 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I read on here someone called into a local radio show this off-season and said he hurt it snowboarding again.  Clearly that is not what I would call a credible source but at this point I can’t dismiss it either.  

 

Luck himself confirmed he had the snowboarding accident that caused his sprained AC joint in '16. 

 

I had heard a rumor about "hiking" in Europe (as opposed to snowboarding), but since that rumor is on the "very wild" end of the spectrum, I didn't want to mention it.

 

I fully realize that the "asking for time off in Hawaii" rumor is at least *slightly* wild, at least it came from a source that has been right before, and it was posited as a "I heard this" and not as fact.

 

The only reason I give a claim like that more than a passing thought is because to go from zero to retirement in 2 weeks, out of nowhere, is no more ridiculous than that very assertion.

 

Wild times.

[Devildog]

I'm tired. 

[DougDew]

49 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

We aren't entitled to know every little detail about every situation, and know one should expect full disclosure the very minute a player starts thinking about walking away.

 

People are playing with conspiracy theories because they can't reconcile the fact that a great player in his prime would walk away from the game two weeks before the season starts. I get it, it's strange and shocking, but the official version of events isn't so outrageous that it can't be true. 

 

The idea that the team made up a calf/ankle injury that lingered all offseason to give Luck time to decide whether he was going to play or not is more outrageous than Luck retiring abruptly.

I agree that people are reaching  a bit.  But its not like its without some merit.

 

If you look at his history, there has been a certain mystery around how serious his injuries have been and how long the rehab will be.  That strikes me as a guy who is conflicted between what he wants to do every day, and what he feels like he is supposed to do, be an NFL QB. 

 

Kind of like when you hate your job, but people are counting on you to do it, so you call in sick until your conscience gets to you.

 

That speaks to  the mental aspect of this, and how Luck called it mental exhaustion.  And how Irsay called it in 2017 as the problem being 4 inches between his ears.

 

I think its more than the injury/rehab cycle.  I think he's been conflicted for a while and has simply found the clarity and strength to finally say that he doesn't want the job anymore.

 

 

[krunk]

I'm waiting to see what Gregg Doyel digs up on this.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Maybe in ten years Luck will write a book lol.

[Superman]

43 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

 

Agreed.  It wasn't made up at all.

 

But I don't believe the most recent physical "injuries" were the proximate cause of the retirement. 

 

The mental aspect of dealing with rehab, and Luck's mental state overall was probably the issue.  And Luck 100% controlled the narrative of what the Colts were allowed to discuss (i.e., they discussed the physical component publicly, not the mental one).

 

Makes Irsay's comment about the space between Luck's ears whilst dealing with the shoulder even more poignant and illuminating now.

 

I just hope Andrew gets the mental health treatment and recovery he needs to be a happy human being, first and foremost.  That's the most important issue here, by far.

 

Total conjecture on my part: His comments about being 'in a dark place' coupled with Irsay's comments about his mind state make me wonder if he was really having some dangerous thoughts when he was rehabbing in 2017. He might have some struggles with emotional instability that he felt starting to pop back up, and he might have decided way back when that he was not going to sacrifice his mental and emotional well being to play football anymore. Especially now that he's married and has a kid on the way.

 

That might be sensational, and again, that's just my speculative thinking. Not a rumor...

[Goatface Killah]

Did anyone ever consider maybe Luck has been having problems with pain meds?

 

I've had at least 20 people I knew from HS wind up dead in their mid-late 30s, and they all started with an addiction to vicodin, every single one of them. It is nothing to play around with. I know hes been on them for extended periods, more than once. 

 

I've been a defender of his on here, but I'll be the first to admit, all this is just strange and getting stranger the more I think about it.

 

Nothing about any of this seems like the Andrew we all know. 

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I agree that people are reaching  a bit.  But its not like its without some merit.

 

If you look at his history, there has been a certain mystery around how serious his injuries have been and how long the rehab will be.  That strikes me as a guy who is conflicted between what he wants to do every day, and what he feels like he is supposed to do, be an NFL QB. 

 

Kind of like when you hate reporting to your job, but people are counting on you to do it, so you call in sick until your conscience gets to you.

 

That speaks to  the mental aspect of this, and how Luck called it mental exhaustion.  And how Irsay called it in 2017 as the problem being 4 inches between his ears.

 

I think its more than the injury/rehab cycle.  I think he's been conflicted for a while and has simply found the clarity and strength to finally say that he doesn't want the job anymore.

 

That's reasonable. 

 

I'm objecting to the narrative that there was an active cover-up on his part, or on the team's part. The idea that they made up an injury because he wasn't sure he wanted to keep playing is pretty ridiculous.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, GoatBeard said:

Did anyone ever consider maybe Luck has been having problems with pain meds?

 

I've had at least 20 people I knew from HS wind up dead in their mid-late 30s, and they all started with an addiction to vicodin, every single one of them. It is nothing to play around with. I know hes been on them for extended periods, more than once. 

 

I've been a defender of his on here, but I'll be the first to admit, all this is just strange and getting stranger the more I think about it.

 

Nothing about any of this seems like the Andrew we all know. 

Someone on JMV who called in and mentioned this. They mentioned maybe he had a prior problem and just didn’t want to go down that road again.

[Superman]

29 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

JMV seems to pretty connected and has been right in the past. I don’t know where that stands now...but he did say he had a source tell him this...so it doesn’t seem like he is just making it up. Whether it’s correct or not...we probably won’t know.

 

He's also been wrong in the past.

 

He said he heard Luck wanted to retire a week ago. The go the XFL part of that rumor has yet to materialize.

 

I'm not saying JMV is making stuff up, but I do think there's a point where talking about 'what I've heard' starts to become irresponsible, especially when it's presented as anything more than just unsubstantiated rumor.

[DerekDiggler]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

Someone on JMV who called in and mentioned this. They mentioned maybe he had a prior problem and just didn’t want to go down that road again.

People who call into to these shows are usually *.  

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Wasn’t it Brett Farve that almost died when having a foot surgery because of pain meds.

Just now, DerekDiggler said:

People who call into to these shows are usually *.  

 

 

Well he was just asking. It isn’t all that far fetched either. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

7 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

Did anyone ever consider maybe Luck has been having problems with pain meds?

 

I've had at least 20 people I knew from HS wind up dead in their mid-late 30s, and they all started with an addiction to vicodin, every single one of them. It is nothing to play around with. I know hes been on them for extended periods, more than once. 

 

I've been a defender of his on here, but I'll be the first to admit, all this is just strange and getting stranger the more I think about it.

 

Nothing about any of this seems like the Andrew we all know. 

 

It came up yesterday...

 

[John Waylon]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He's also been wrong in the past.

 

He said he heard Luck wanted to retire a week ago. The go the XFL part of that rumor has yet to materialize.

 

I'm not saying JMV is making stuff up, but I do think there's a point where talking about 'what I've heard' starts to become irresponsible, especially when it's presented as anything more than just unsubstantiated rumor.

 

To be technical, would there be anything to stop him from joining an XFL team, or the league in an off the field capacity?

 

Because I HAVE silently wondered to myself in recent days about that. Not saying it was a catalyst for the move or anything, but the connection is certainly there if it were to be chased, and was the first thought in my mind when I heard about an XFL connection.   

[coltsfanej]

1 hour ago, Turftoe said:

To be fair, a lot of this could be avoided if the parties involved had been upfront and forthcoming about things.

That may be true but that would have caused a whole new set of issues had he decided to play this season and if all the fans and players knew he was thinking about hanging it up no one would have confidence that he was committed to the team. They had to keep it quiet on the chance he stayed.

[deedub75]

He has not looked the same nor sounded the same since the shoulder issue.  He looks mentally broken and I hope he is getting the help he needs.  

[csmopar]

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He's also been wrong in the past.

 

He said he heard Luck wanted to retire a week ago. The go the XFL part of that rumor has yet to materialize.

 

I'm not saying JMV is making stuff up, but I do think there's a point where talking about 'what I've heard' starts to become irresponsible, especially when it's presented as anything more than just unsubstantiated rumor.

If the XFL thing does materialize, well Andrew Luck would likely become the most hated man in the history of the state of Indiana.

24 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

 

To be technical, would there be anything to stop him from joining an XFL team, or the league in an off the field capacity?

 

Because I HAVE silently wondered to myself in recent days about that. Not saying it was a catalyst for the move or anything, but the connection is certainly there if it were to be chased, and was the first thought in my mind when I heard about an XFL connection.   

Colts would likely change their mind and sue him for their 24 million back

[NFLfan]

2 hours ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I personally have a hard time believing it, and that's coming from one of the few people who actually thought there was truth to the snowboarding rumors from the very beginning.

But hey, you never know.

 

I agree. That Instagram post does not sound credible. It sounds like something out of a tabloid like the Enquirer.

[coltsfanej]

IF the speculation that this was all a mental issue is true, then perhaps Frank and Chris wanted him to run through the warm ups so that he could get the pregame juices going and maybe feel the itch and excitement of a game day and come back after the warm up and have that fire back and his mind right.... That let him do his training in a good football setting and out of a training room where he has spent so much of his time.....  Though if this is indeed a physical issue then the above is nothing but faulty conjecture and should be ignored and dismissed as nonsense. Hence the IF. 

[CanuckColt]

2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

It’s interesting to listen to Rick Venturi saying he thinks Luck had a mental break down.

I think Rick is closest to the truth...Andrew is probably suffering from depression. When that happens you just cannot function properly...the only option is to bail.

 

[NFLfan]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

I like how people just make stuff up, and then start peddling it as anything more than the product of their imagination.

 

Thank you. And others blindly accept it as the truth to support their narrative. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I thought I heard that there is a non compete clause and he couldn’t go to the xfl. Not sure if that would apply to any job or just to playing there.