First 2 games - should we sign a vet?

[chad72]

Is a bird in hand more worth than two in the bush? Is Philip Walker worth even retaining because of familiarity with the system for the first 2 games if your mind is made up to go with Chad Kelly after game 2? Are the Colts brass trying to keep Walker's motivation up by retaining him for the first 2 games and is that a mistake?

 

I hope Brissett comes through unscathed in the first 2 games but do we need to try to get a vet like Landry Jones or Brock Osweiler instead of Walker for the first 2 games? Or do we wait for cuts? For example, a team like the Broncos has Joe Flacco, Drew Lock, Kevin Hogan and Brett Rypien.

 

Here is the depth chart by teams for the QB position:

 

https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchartpos/QB

 

[Barry Sears]

I believe Ballard is keeping his eyes and ears open, but I feel like we'll have Walker as the #2 until Kelly returns.  Kelly has played well, but has also played against the 2nd and 3rd stringers of other teams.  He's had a much better pre-season than Walker.

[Superman]

I wonder if they have someone identified who might be cut, or even traded for before cuts. Either way, I expect they'll bring in at least one guy for the first two weeks, and that's primarily because I can't see Walker being the primary backup at any point this season. 

[csmopar]

11 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Is a bird in hand more worth than two in the bush? Is Philip Walker worth even retaining because of familiarity with the system for the first 2 games if your mind is made up to go with Chad Kelly after game 2? Are the Colts brass trying to keep Walker's motivation up by retaining him for the first 2 games and is that a mistake?

 

I hope Brissett comes through unscathed in the first 2 games but do we need to try to get a vet like Landry Jones or Brock Osweiler instead of Walker for the first 2 games? Or do we wait for cuts? For example, a team like the Broncos has Joe Flacco, Drew Lock, Kevin Hogan and Brett Rypien.

 

Here is the depth chart by teams for the QB position:

 

https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchartpos/QB

 

I think with Fairley being waived and no one else being signed just yet, I bet the next signing is gonna be some QB, who I don't know

[PrincetonTiger]

Waiver Wire

[Clem-Dog]

Via Rotoworld, Jimmy Kempski of Phillyvoice speculated that Nate Sudfeld could be a target of the Colts.

 

Quote

The Colts are sure to address their quarterback depth following Andrew Luck's sudden retirement and Sudfeld could be on their radar. Indianapolis tried to poach Sudfeld off Philadelphia's practice squad in 2017, prompting the Eagles to add him to their active roster. Coach Frank Reich also has a strong familiarity with Sudfeld, serving as his offensive coordinator in 2017 before defecting to Indianapolis the following offseason. Sudfeld, who is still recovering from wrist surgery, became expendable when the Eagles lured veteran backup Josh McCown out of retirement.

 

[DougDew]

I know we're thinking in terms of backup this year, but JBs contract is due so technically, we are pretty void of proven top notch QB talent on the roster at this point that we can count on for stability.

 

I hate the idea of drafting a rookie QB high, then forcing him into the starter position out of need. 

 

And you wouldn't draft a QB high to be JBs backup, if you choose to sign JB.

 

Okay, crazy idea I know:  I'd like to see us be bold about it and go after Matt Ryan to be JBs backup this year but probably a starter for two years as a rookie sits on the bench.  Don't know how married ATL is to Ryan at this point considering one of the best QBs in the draft will be Fromme from UGA.  We have the space to absorb Ryan's contract this year.  An out of the box solution.

 

Just thinking about the back up spot this year in light of what the roster is going to look like come spring.

[BleedBlu8792]

Just now, DougDew said:

I'd like to see us be bold about it and go after Matt Ryan to be JBs backup this year

 

Huh? Are you talking about the Falcons' Matt Ryan...

[chad72]

39 minutes ago, Superman said:

I wonder if they have someone identified who might be cut, or even traded for before cuts. Either way, I expect they'll bring in at least one guy for the first two weeks, and that's primarily because I can't see Walker being the primary backup at any point this season. 

 

To me, it seems likely that we carry 3 QBs for the rest of the year starting with game 3 of this season with the new signing being the 3rd QB (that is not Walker) on top of Brissett and Kelly as 1 and 2.

[DougDew]

21 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Huh? Are you talking about the Falcons' Matt Ryan...

Yes.  I know its a Huh? thought.

 

I'm writing off this season and looking to what kind of QB I think this team needs.  I'm thinking like a Denver and PM situation where Ryan could succeed very well in Reich's offense for as long as he is healthy, then have the franchise guy as the backup.  That would be my ideal QB roster next spring.  Simply be-gone with our current crop, and have a plan for the next few years.

 

If Ryan becomes available before the dead line, I'd scrap this season and move on to the future by having him the starter and then having the luxury of finding a young QB not under duress.

 

Finding a pure vet backup to Chad Kelly, if JB gets hurt,  is not really going to lead to a successful season anyway, so I wouldn't look to add another QB to the roster for that scenario.  Philip Walker is fine for that.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

38 minutes ago, Clem-Dog said:

Via Rotoworld, Jimmy Kempski of Phillyvoice speculated that Nate Sudfeld could be a target of the Colts.

 

 

He has a broken wrist. Won’t be available until at least the end of sept. At that point Kelly will be available again if they want to use him.

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

To me, it seems likely that we carry 3 QBs for the rest of the year starting with game 3 of this season with the new signing being the 3rd QB (that is not Walker) on top of Brissett and Kelly as 1 and 2.

 

Yeah I'm not sure they want to rely on Kelly as QB2. I had him pegged for a PS spot but he's been good in the preseason so they might not want to expose him. 

[coltsblue1844]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yes.  I know its a Huh? thought.

 

I'm writing off this season and looking to what kind of QB I think this team needs.  I'm thinking like a Denver and PM situation where Ryan could succeed very well in Reich's offense for as long as he is healthy, then have the franchise guy as the backup.  That would be my ideal QB roster next spring.  Simply be-gone with our current crop, and have a plan for the next few years.

 

If Ryan becomes available before the dead line, I'd scrap this season and move on to the future by having him the starter and then having the luxury of finding a young QB not under duress.

 

Finding a pure vet backup to Chad Kelly, if JB gets hurt,  is not really going to lead to a successful season anyway, so I wouldn't look to add another QB to the roster for that scenario.  Philip Walker is fine for that.

 

If we traded for Matt Ryan, it would NOT be for a backup position! lol he is miles better than Jacoby is, and it isnt close.  That said, Atlanta isnt trading him anyhow.

[lollygagger8]

Side note: 

 

Remember when they did this with Kerry Collins? 

 

 

It's funny now, it wasn't funny then 

[Barry Sears]

Has anyone called Peyton Manning yet?  

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, coltsblue1844 said:

 

If we traded for Matt Ryan, it would NOT be for a backup position! lol he is miles better than Jacoby is, and it isnt close.  That said, Atlanta isnt trading him anyhow.

He's 34 and not their future, and I'm not sure they are going anywhere this year anyway.  Fromme from UGA could be.  I'd simply ask ATL what their price was, because a vet QB generally doesn't command a high draft pick because of the cap hit we'd have to take....which we could easily take.

 

It would be a matter of whether or not ATL was ready to move on and try to get into position to draft Fromme.  I think Ryan has lost a lot of capital over the years and has his fair share of critics in ATL, so that's not out of this world.

 

It wouldn't set well with Jacoby, however.

[Superman]

Just now, DougDew said:

He's 34 and not their future, and I'm not sure they are going anywhere this year anyway.  Fromme from UGA could be.  I'd simply ask ATL what their price was, because a vet QB generally doesn't command a high draft pick because of the cap hit we'd have to take....which we could easily take.

 

It would be a matter of whether or not ATL was ready to move on and try to get into position to draft Fromme.  That's not out of this world.

 

It wouldn't set well with Jacoby, however.

 

This is a crazy idea and obviously this won't happen.

 

But I didn't realize Matt Ryan is 34... Goodness, where does the time go?

 

2 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

Side note: 

 

Remember when they did this with Kerry Collins? 

 

 

It's funny now, it wasn't funny then 

 

S 

M

H

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

He's 34 and not their future, and I'm not sure they are going anywhere this year anyway.  Fromme from UGA could be.  I'd simply ask ATL what their price was, because a vet QB generally doesn't command a high draft pick because of the cap hit we'd have to take....which we could easily take.

 

It would be a matter of whether or not ATL was ready to move on and try to get into position to draft Fromme.  That's not out of this world.

 

It wouldn't set well with Jacoby, however.

Matt Ryan threw for almost 5000 yards with 35 tds and only 7 picks last year.   Atlanta isn't trading him

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

I wonder if they have someone identified who might be cut, or even traded for before cuts. Either way, I expect they'll bring in at least one guy for the first two weeks, and that's primarily because I can't see Walker being the primary backup at any point this season. 

 

Or longer. Depending who they get methinks.

 

55 minutes ago, Clem-Dog said:

Via Rotoworld, Jimmy Kempski of Phillyvoice speculated that Nate Sudfeld could be a target of the Colts.

 

I've seen this in many spots.  It is known Ballard tried to sign the guy off the Eagles practice squad to the Colts 53 man roster in 2017, when Reich was Eagles OC.  Nate knows Reich's (at least much of, at minimum) system and verbiage.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

Matt Ryan threw for almost 5000 yards with 35 tds and only 7 picks last year.   Atlanta isn't trading him

 

If they traded him this season, his cap penalty would be $56m. If they traded him next year, it would be $42m. He's untradeable. 

 

Edit: Corrected figures for a trade, instead of a release.

[Imgrandojji]

if we're looking for a proven veteran backup QB -- the Patriots are apparently head over heels in love with Jarrett Stidham and there's speculation among their fans that they might decide to carry 2 QBs, Brady, and Stidham as his backup.

 

I know this won't be every fan's cup of tea, but Brian Hoyer is a very respectable QB2. especially to put behind a young, inexperienced QB1.    If you're looking for a veteran mentor, he's been around a lot and has years of experience in multiple systems.

 

We could do a lot worse than Hoyer,

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

This is a crazy idea and obviously this won't happen.

 

 

Totally agree at this point.  I'm going to keep one corner of my eye on how Jacoby plays and what the politics and performance of ATL is until October.

[Superman]

Just now, Imgrandojji said:

if we're looking for a proven veteran backup QB -- the Patriots are apparently head over heels in love with Jarrett Stidham and there's speculation among their fans that they might decide to carry 2 QBs, Brady, and Stidham as his backup.

 

I know this won't be every fan's cup of tea, but Brian Hoyer is a very respectable QB2. especially to put behind a young, inexperienced QB1.    If you're looking for a veteran mentor, he's been around a lot and has years of experience in multiple systems.

 

We could do a lot worse than Hoyer,

 

Hoyer as a backup would be fine.

[jvan1973]

Just now, DougDew said:

Totally agree at this point.  I'm going to keep one corner of my eye on how Jacoby plays and what the politics and performance of ATL is until October.

The Falcons just extended Ryan last season.    He isn't going anywhere any time soon.   

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

If they traded him this season, his cap penalty would be $56m. If they traded him next year, it would be $42m. He's untradeable. 

 

Edit: Corrected figures for a trade, instead of a release.

Ok.  I thought the aquiring team ate the contract.  You mean a penalty to us, right?

 

Ok. even I wouldn't trade for him at that price.  

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

The Falcons just extended Ryan last season.    He isn't going anywhere any time soon.   

Ok.  Wasn't aware they re-upped so recently.  NVM.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

if we're looking for a proven veteran backup QB -- the Patriots are apparently head over heels in love with Jarrett Stidham and there's speculation among their fans that they might decide to carry 2 QBs, Brady, and Stidham as his backup.

 

I know this won't be every fan's cup of tea, but Brian Hoyer is a very respectable QB2. especially to put behind a young, inexperienced QB1.    If you're looking for a veteran mentor, he's been around a lot and has years of experience in multiple systems.

 

We could do a lot worse than Hoyer,

I would be ok with that.

[CanuckColt]

11 minutes ago, DougDew said:

...

Finding a pure vet backup to Chad Kelly, if JB gets hurt,  is not really going to lead to a successful season anyway, so I wouldn't look to add another QB to the roster for that scenario.  Philip Walker is fine for that.

Exactly. Go with who we have instead of being stampeded into getting another warm body to occupy the roster spot. If Chad screws up then go get someone, else keep Kelly as backup (he's the most talented QB we have now).

 

[Mitch Connors]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Ok.  I thought the aquiring team ate the contract.  You mean a penalty to us, right?

 

Ok. even I wouldn't trade for him at that price.  But at 34, I don't think a release is out of the question with Fromme coming out.

 

Matt Ryan was #4 in passer rating.

#3 in TD's. 

#3 in yards. 

#4 in INTs.

 

There is a more likely chance the Falcons disband their entire team next year than them cutting Matt Ryan. 

[Superman]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Ok.  I thought the aquiring team ate the contract.  You mean a penalty to us, right?

 

Ok. even I wouldn't trade for him at that price.  

Ok.  Wasn't aware they re-upped so recently.  NVM.

 

That penalty is to the Falcons. Which is just one of the several reasons they won't be trading him before 2021, if ever.

 

The acquiring team gets the contract, but the bonus money already paid by the trading team stays with the trading team, and gets accelerated so that it's accounted for within one season. Since their 2018 extension, the Falcons have paid Ryan a total of $65m in bonuses, most of which has not hit their cap yet. The unamortized portion would be accelerated onto their 2019 and 2020 cap if they traded him this season.

 

The acquiring team would only be responsible for the salaries and future roster bonuses, and corresponding cap hits. So if a team did trade for Ryan this season, they would only have a $2.75m cap hit in 2019 (that's his salary; the contract is very bonus heavy). 

[a06cc]

Plan B! 

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That penalty is to the Falcons. Which is just one of the several reasons they won't be trading him before 2021, if ever.

 

The acquiring team gets the contract, but the bonus money already paid by the trading team stays with the trading team, and gets accelerated so that it's accounted for within one season. Since their 2018 extension, the Falcons have paid Ryan a total of $65m in bonuses, most of which has not hit their cap yet. The unamortized portion would be accelerated onto their 2019 and 2020 cap if they traded him this season.

 

The acquiring team would only be responsible for the salaries and future roster bonuses, and corresponding cap hits. So if a team did trade for Ryan this season, they would only have a $2.75m cap hit in 2019 (that's his salary; the contract is very bonus heavy). 

Thanks.    I thought he was getting the reputation as being a bit of an underachiever for most of his career, so I'm surprised they extended him for so much money so recently at that age.

[a06cc]

I honestly hope we play Jacoby Brissett this entire season. This is a totally different set of circumstances. In my opinion the team is better overall than in 2017.

[ClaytonColt]

Colin Kaepernick isn't doing anything 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Just now, DougDew said:

I thought he was getting the reputation as being a bit of an underachiever for most of his career,

 

 In the Brady / Belichick era, aren't most of them?  Ryan, Stafford, Luck, etc ...  even Peyton's post seasons.

 

It's a team game, too.  QB's and HC's often get more credit, or more criticism, than they deserve.

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

 In the Brady / Belichick era, aren't most of them?  Ryan, Stafford, Luck, etc ...  even Peyton's post seasons.

 

It's a team game, too.  QB's and HC's often get more credit, or more criticism, than they deserve.

Oh absolutely!  I thought he was getting that rep even though the cause of it was being stuck with a mediocre team for every year except 1.  Just thought they might rebuild/move in a different direction, but it looks like they made a commitment to him.

 

Still, I'd like to hear the media chatter if the Falcons start 1-5 or something.  Buyer's remorse.

[BleedBlu8792]

7 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

Colin Kaepernick isn't doing anything 

 

And it will likely stay that way...

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

Colin Kaepernick isn't doing anything 

 

I heard he still  looks (too) thin for an NFL QB, more like  a soccer player.  He was known to have weight loss issues before (possibly from off season surgeries I think) as recent as 2016, when Gabbert took his job...

 

https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2016/09/03/chip-kelly-explains-why-he-picked-blaine-gabbert-over-colin-kaepernick/

 

and this

 

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/colin-kaepernick-49ers-start-chip-kelly-nfl-buffalo-stats-career-highlights-fantasy-101116

 

[Dingus McGirt]

Manning signs a two-week contract...

[Dingus McGirt]

21 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I heard he still  looks (too) thin for an NFL QB, more like  a soccer player.  He was known to have weight loss issues before (possibly from off season surgeries I think) as recent as 2016, when Gabbert took his job...

 

https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2016/09/03/chip-kelly-explains-why-he-picked-blaine-gabbert-over-colin-kaepernick/

 

and this

 

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/colin-kaepernick-49ers-start-chip-kelly-nfl-buffalo-stats-career-highlights-fantasy-101116

 

Besides that, his hair won't fit in a helmet.

[BleedBlu8792]

5 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I heard he still  looks (too) thin for an NFL QB, more like  a soccer player.  He was known to have weight loss issues before (possibly from off season surgeries I think) as recent as 2016, when Gabbert took his job...

 

https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2016/09/03/chip-kelly-explains-why-he-picked-blaine-gabbert-over-colin-kaepernick/

 

and this

 

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/colin-kaepernick-49ers-start-chip-kelly-nfl-buffalo-stats-career-highlights-fantasy-101116

 

 

And from what I understand he's walking in with a starting price of 15-20M. I think teams would look beyond the abilities/physical traits/distractions, but he's coming to the table like he has leverage when he doesn't. His ego is killing his chance of playing on Sunday. Just come in, learn whatever system you're in, take over the starting spot, and produce, and he'll get paid, but he's trying to  bypass all the important steps to getting the money he supposedly wants.