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Luck Retires/ The timing of it all... (merge)

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I remember there being some here that were not sold on Luck and were vocal on wanted to trade back and draft a more developmental QB to groom behind Manning and use the draft capital to give Peyton talent and build a solid team for the future... I was on the wagon of trading back and taking Foles later... Not saying that would have worked out, but that was my druther.  Seems like maybe @The Peytonator was in on the discussion back then as well as others.... But as they say shoulda woulda coulda. 

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20/20 hindsight discussions are not helpful. You have to make decisions without that hindsight and moving on from horribly injured Peyton was the right decision at the time when you consider the type of talent Luck was. 

 

Plus, that part of the hindsight still fails to give you the full picture - namely how would Peyton have faired with this team's horrible OLine and this team's abysmal defense? Peyton didn't go to those Superbowls after he left with Grigson as his GM and Pagano as his coach... and a defense that allowed 34 points a game in the losses. Peyton had the best defense in the world at the time. And Luck still beat him in the playoffs. 

 

You make decisions with the best information you have at the time, not with the information you will have 10 years later. You win some, you lose some... nothing you can do about it, best you can do is collect the best information and make an informed optimal decision based on that information. 

 

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19 minutes ago, coltsfanej said:

I remember there being some here that were not sold on Luck and were vocal on wanted to trade back and draft a more developmental QB to groom behind Manning and use the draft capital to give Peyton talent and build a solid team for the future... I was on the wagon of trading back and taking Foles later... Not saying that would have worked out, but that was my druther.  Seems like maybe @The Peytonator was in on the discussion back then as well as others.... But as they say shoulda woulda coulda. 

 

I do remember being a big trade back and draft Foles shipper early in the offseason, then I reneged and changed my mind to it being a foolish and Peyton homer type of thinking, and being all in on drafting the future, Luck. I don’t think that even in hindsight, that I could definitively say I side with either. Obviously I’d take the Manning/Foles Lombardi’s if all things are equal, but we’ll never know what the results would have been if we went that route. 

 

The thing about keeping Peyton is that they probably would have chosen to keep Caldwell and Polian, and retain the status quo. I don’t remember having much of a dog in the fight on the GM search, but I really wanted to bring in Mike Zimmer at head coach. I don’t retain the notion that a Peyton led 2011 team would have been anything less than an 11-5, possible deep playoff run, type of season that a lot of pundits seem to think. He was two seasons removed from being in the Super Bowl with largely the same team. He knew how to carry this team in a way that Kerry Collins being lured out of retirement didn’t. 

 

Bottom line is, I think that roster and front office needed a shakeup and it wouldn’t have happened with Peyton, even if it would have helped. I actually would have rather kept Caldwell and gotten rid of Polian in hindsight, but that probably would have been a crazy thought at the time, I can barely remember how most felt back then. I don’t believe drafting Luck should be looked at as a bad decision. He was a generational talent at the most premium position in the game. I do believe he lost the desire to play more so than his body just giving out on him, but that is neither here nor there. There is no way that we could have known either would occur back then and I think it’s very likely neither would have occurred if we went a different route than hiring Ryan Grigson. 

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Its a shame Indy doesn't have investigative journalists. Becuz it is more to this. And no way did Irsay and co just let him keep 24mil out of the kindness of their heart. They probably didn't want to get sued for a couple hundred mill for malpractice. 

 

I still don't see why Luck would be on the field at LOS doing qb drills if he was going to retire. 

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How long from now will it take for Andrew to sit down for an interview? Any guesses?

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11 minutes ago, presto123 said:

How long from now will it take for Andrew to sit down for an interview? Any guesses?

He only did interviews because he was obligated to. He doesn't strike me as the kind of person that wants attention. He definitely wont do any interviews during the season. 

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1 hour ago, presto123 said:

How long from now will it take for Andrew to sit down for an interview? Any guesses?

Maybe Never.

He did not look like a happy fulfilled person the other night.

Hope he gets past this!

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4 hours ago, presto123 said:

How long from now will it take for Andrew to sit down for an interview? Any guesses?

 

I think he disappears from the football scene for awhile. Possibly, a long while.

 

4 hours ago, GusFring said:

He only did interviews because he was obligated to. He doesn't strike me as the kind of person that wants attention. He definitely wont do any interviews during the season. 

 

Right, agreed. He loved football, the game, and not because of the Pub or cash. Those were just part of playing the game.  He told us, pain has taken away the Joy of the game.  So he left tons of cash on the table,  gave one last emotional presser and backed away.  I think he goes stealth for a decent stretch of time.

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8 hours ago, GoatBeard said:

 

 

But to be clear, buying a ticket is nowhere near putting on a helmet and going to battle with JJ Watt....and if you think it is, you're delusional.

To be clear, paying a couple hundred bucks to go to a game is nowhere near getting $100 million dollars for doing your job.  

Just pointing out how silly it is to compare the 2.   No question that Luck had a much more physically demanding job than any of us.   However, he was compensated well.   He got beat up and had enough.   Good for him.   I wish I could have retired at 29.   I hope Luck has a great life.   

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9 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

I don't care what you think.   You had your starting qb last year and had a losing record.   I would focus on the bears and Vikings. 

 

Robots aren't this sassy. Get him Jvan. 

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On 8/24/2019 at 10:18 PM, Kenzicocapontas said:

Ya know, I think he went through absolute hell under Grigson and it wrecked his body, mind, and love for the game. Grigson was like a 16 year old getting the keys to a Ferrari. I hate how this happened, with the timing and false hope, but I can respect his need to prioritize everything else in his life over money. 

Luck has made over $100 million, so i wouldn't say he chose anything over money. He's been paid by the fans, the franchise and the league for his services. The fans have a right to be emotional and react how they want, especially with the timing of it all.

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17 minutes ago, Indy B said:

Luck has made over $100 million, so i wouldn't say he chose anything over money. He's been paid by the fans, the franchise and the league for his services. The fans have a right to be emotional and react how they want, especially with the timing of it all.

 

I wasn't aware that I said anything in that post about the fans not having a right to be emotional.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Myles said:

To be clear, paying a couple hundred bucks to go to a game is nowhere near getting $100 million dollars for doing your job.  

Just pointing out how silly it is to compare the 2.   No question that Luck had a much more physically demanding job than any of us.   However, he was compensated well.   He got beat up and had enough.   Good for him.   I wish I could have retired at 29.   I hope Luck has a great life.   

I didnt compare the two, I said there was no comparison to be made, because there are plenty of people making that comparison.

 

I also wish I could have retired at 29, but that's the thing, Andrew Luck DID NOT RETIRE at 29. That's a false narrative and what makes the hate hes getting for stepping away from the game so proposterous. He simply changed professions, like other people do every single day. Sure he might take time off, but I dont think he chose to pursue an Architectural Engineering degree just to play football and stare at it mounted on his wall. He will either be back playing football next year or we will hear hes starting his own company, in which he will likely be CEO.  

 

He put himself in a position to do this. Thru hardwork and dedication that most people simply dont have. He is held to a much higher standard than "normal people" want to hold themselves to. Hes not some spoiled entitled athlete like hes being painted. He didnt take a bunch of fluff classes in college just so he could play football. He has been blessed with tremendous physical ability, and he STILL chose to work hard and accomplish something else, so he wouldn't be dependent on it. That's just smart.

 

It really boils down to one thing, normal people being envious of an elite athlete for not being normal. His ability to live a life beyond their wildest dreams and call his own shots drives them crazy because they dont get to call their own. Being envious of that person is something that just makes you look bad. JMO

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6 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

 

He put himself in a position to do this. Thru hardwork and dedication that most people simply dont have.

I disagree.   Most people I know work very hard to make ends meet and to provide for their family and retirement later on.   Getting up every morning and going to work is dedication.   Not taking anything away from Luck, he did the same, but he's not an isolated case.   

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5 minutes ago, Myles said:

I disagree.   Most people I know work very hard to make ends meet and to provide for their family and retirement later on.   Getting up every morning and going to work is dedication.   Not taking anything away from Luck, he did the same, but he's not an isolated case.   

I didnt say it wasnt hard, and my back understands how hard it is. 

 

But I also didnt work hard in school and spent my youth chasing girls around, drinking heavily and just looking forward to the next weekend. So I cant be mad at the person who spent that time pursuing  their dreams.

 

I'm not insulting average people, or at least not trying to. I am an average person myself. Just offering perspective. 

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6 hours ago, presto123 said:

How long from now will it take for Andrew to sit down for an interview? Any guesses?

Really not interested in hearing from him.  It will all be Luck speak, same story, blah, blah.  It will all come out someday, but it won't be from Luck.... he is the past and time to forget him and move on, let Luck go spend his money.

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On 8/25/2019 at 10:39 PM, Pragmatic said:

He got hurt doing none football activities. No one is questioning his talent. He just decide it was not that important to him.

 

He could have retired after last season. Doing it 2 week before the opener is put the team in a terrible position. 

Don't you think that non-football activities were so dangerous because Luck was beat a lot in football games? That's why he retired: he realised, simple non-football activities can be dangerous now. What's next? Concussion because of being hit with a pillow?!

And don't you think, Andrew told about his decision to Jim and Chris long ago, and they asked him to think about it more?

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4 hours ago, Kenzicocapontas said:

 

I wasn't aware that I said anything in that post about the fans not having a right to be emotional.

 

 

 

Easy Kenos... I didn't say that you did. At the end of your post you stated that you "respect his need to prioritize everything else in his life over money."

Which is fine if that's how you feel. You also stated other things which i did not respond to.

 

I simply disagreed with the end of your post and see it with a different opinion and stated "Luck has made over $100 million, so i wouldn't say he chose anything over money. He's been paid by the fans, the franchise and the league for his services. The fans have a right to be emotional and react how they want, especially with the timing of it all."

The rest is simply finishing my opinion on the unfair bashing of Indy fans by the national media and entitled players who don't think we the fans should have an opinion that might make them look bad. My post also agreed with your take on the poor timing of the entire situation.

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19 hours ago, presto123 said:

So you are saying Andrew Luck should have been Kelly's back up?:lol:

You can't spell Chad Kelly without lead, which is exactly what he'll do on our way to Super Bowl 54!

 

 

 

(This is a joke)

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Ok, i'm over it.

I woke up this morning ready to move on and i really dont care what if.

Thankfully, i dont live my life in the rear-view mirror.  Its a bummer... fine.  But its just football at the end of the day.  In my life, that means ENTERTAINMENT.

  I dont want or need to think or talk AL anymore.

Time to move on.  Like it or not.

Next man up!

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5 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

Time to move on.  Like it or not.

Next man up!

I totally agree @WoolMagnet ! And your quote would be the perfect way to end this thread... although I was kind of hoping to see it get to 40 pages! 

 

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49 minutes ago, DEColtsLover36 said:

I totally agree @WoolMagnet ! And your quote would be the perfect way to end this thread... although I was kind of hoping to see it get to 40 pages! 

 

200.gif

I dont think that will be problem.

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6 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

 

  ...I dont want or need to think or talk AL anymore.

Time to move on.  Like it or not.

Next man up!

 

I agree. On to Cincinnati!

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I woke up today, not angry anymore, and ready to move on and get behind the team.

 

Then a buddy of mine called me this evening from Indy and said something about Dan D reporting that Luck wanted to go to Hawaii for 3 months, and Ballard told him to pound sand. Also said Golic (I think) said that Manning and Dungy commented that Luck was practicing like a "mad man" when they visited camp (not in public view).

 

Anyway, my WTH meter starting flaring up again.Can anyone confirm the above?

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Fans is short for fanatic and all fans are fanatics. First of all, Andrew Luck does not owe fans anything. I am being realistic, fans did not pay Andrew Luck but Jim Irsay did. Jim should have took some of the money back from Andrew Luck but things would probably get ugly. The Lions took money from from Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson when they retired prematurely but Colts handled with class.

 

Most of the fans did not boo luck but the ones who did had every right to. Luck announced his retirement 2 weeks before the season started so fans have the right to express frustration. Some other fans would throw batteries at their QB. Colts fans are classy in my opinion. Root for the team!

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10 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I woke up today, not angry anymore, and ready to move on and get behind the team.

 

Then a buddy of mine called me this evening from Indy and said something about Dan D reporting that Luck wanted to go to Hawaii for 3 months, and Ballard told him to pound sand. Also said Golic (I think) said that Manning and Dungy commented that Luck was practicing like a "mad man" when they visited camp (not in public view).

 

Anyway, my WTH meter starting flaring up again.Can anyone confirm the above?

 

I can't find any corroboration of that anywhere, and I give no credence to concocted theories.

 

For football players, the offseason is a time for rest, recovery, family, and fitness training preparing for the upcoming season. Players really need that offseason break from football.  Rehab usurps all of the time a player normally uses to refresh and recharge.  Add in when OTA's and camp starts, and the player is (still) in a rehab program to regain football shape and not with th the team is stressful.  Do this for years consecutively. Remember Lucks injury history-

 

» Torn cartilage in 2 ribs
» partially torn abdomenal wall
» lacerated kidney
» A concussion (maybe more)
» AC separation
» torn labrum in his throwing shoulder
» calf/ankle

 

Someone name from any instance above where Luck recovered on or ahead of schedule?  How many without assumed 'setbacks'?  Folks, it's one thing to play with pain players get when nicked up. Totally another story to play through injury, which can make things worse (IE: shoulder!).  And other injuries that plain prohibit play (kidney, etc...) at all.  Luck has been in a constant rehab cycle (He admits it), with no refresh/recharge time.  Missed lots of camp/practices with the team over the years.  He has missed many games, watching his team mates without his help.  As painful as the season playing is. it is, at times, as or more painful to rehab.  And there's no vacation break, and other areas of the body are difficult to keep in shape.

 

As Dr. Chao says-

"The mental side of injury is significant — far more significant than anyone can imagine until they have been through it.  First, there is the devotion to rehabilitation. Luck has worked his way back several times. He knows what it takes and knows that not being fully devoted to that process is a recipe for failure.

Then there is the willingness to put your body on the line again."

 

Physically Luck will be 100% healthy and pain free at some point.  Thus capable of a full return. But the mental side of constant pain and setbacks he endured may very well prevent him from ever wanting to play again.  He doesn't 'need' to, and now it seems he is a a place where he also doesn't 'want' to.

 

I'm reading many stories from football players (many of them that even went through less trauma) they totally understand that perspective, too.  That's telling.  

 

I really don't care about conspiracy theories, or return projections at this point.  I'm satisfied with this narrative above and going Bill Belichick style...  time to move on to ________________ .

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7 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I can't find any corroboration of that anywhere, and I give no credence to concocted theories.

 

 

 

https://nypost.com/2019/08/26/dan-dakich-calls-andrew-luck-a-liar-in-bizarre-double-down/

 

From DD via NYP

Quote

Dakich claims that Luck — who suddenly retired Saturday at 29 years old — asked the Colts for three months in Hawaii to get his body right, which Dakich said the team said no to.

 

 

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2019/08/27/andrew-luck-retires-tony-dungy-shocked-says-luck-working-out-like-maniac/2133036001/

 

from TG via Indystar

Quote

Though Luck wasn't working with the rest of the team at Westfield's Grand Park, "he was working like a maniac," Dungy told radio host Dan Patrick on Tuesday. "He was jumping on boxes, agility drills and doing his pass sets, throwing balls 1,000 mph,"

 

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I dont understand why alot of fans are giving luck and the organization a free pass here.  First it was a calf issue, then an ankle issue, then some kind of special bone.  Then you have all these people saying luck looks great doing drills and throwing the ball.  Seems like the organization designated luck with an injury and luck went along with it the whole time. I firmly believe the organization knew about his retirement for months and left the fans out there to dry to see possibly if luck would change his mind.

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Tonight, for the first time, I watched the entire Luck Retirement presser.  After watching it, for some reason I feel more sympathetic and at peace with his decision.  I wonder, how many forum members have watched his entire press conference and of those that did, how many still totally begrudge him?

 

Just asking.  :)

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Do NOT listen to Dakich! He's a freaking *. He does NOT have sources! He has NOT broken ANY Colts news EVER! He's another know-nothing who pretends to know stuff and sensationalizes unsubstantiated rumors and spits hot takes to gain attention. He's the local version of Skip Bayless. Don't give him the attention!

 

 :troll:

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14 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

But, as I stated, there's no corroboration to be found.  Just a rumor type claim, and someone reporting that claim.  Need someone or something else to back it up.

 

14 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Evidently, this still supports he wasn't yet healthy, because TD also says-

 

"I talked to him for five minutes, and you could see the frustration that he wasn’t out there, but I left my five minutes thinking, 'Maybe not Week 1, but Week 2, Week 3, (unsure) he’ll definitely be there."

 

That tells me there was true rehab taking place (working out like a maniac) for a real problem, and said player was still making a real effort to return.  These were fitness/rehab drills, not real football practice drills. So exactly when did Dungy visit?

 

Nobody knows (except the treating medical staff) the true injury or injuries, pain extent, and if further (and/or continuous) setbacks occurred after such maniacal workouts.

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

But, as I stated, there's no corroboration to be found.  Just a rumor type claim, and someone reporting that claim.  Need someone or something else to back it up.

 

 

Evidently, this still supports he wasn't yet healthy, because TD also says-

 

"I talked to him for five minutes, and you could see the frustration that he wasn’t out there, but I left my five minutes thinking, 'Maybe not Week 1, but Week 2, Week 3, (unsure) he’ll definitely be there."

 

That tells me there was true rehab taking place (working out like a maniac) for a real problem, and said player was still making a real effort to return.  These were fitness/rehab drills, not real football practice drills. So exactly when did Dungy visit?

 

Nobody knows (except the treating medical staff) the true injury or injuries, pain extent, and if further (and/or continuous) setbacks occurred after such maniacal workouts.

 

 

 

 

I'm just curious, since I'm not a medical professional or a sports trainer.

 

But do you rehab a sore ankle, a high ankle sprain, or "bone issue" in the ankle by working out?

 

IIRC, every football player that has such an injury is maybe placed in a walking boot.   My neighbor's son had tendinitis in his foot and was placed in a boot to immobilize the ankle/foot so it would not be used as he went to school and lived life.

 

Just seems odd that we never saw AL in a boot of any kind.  And he was always seeming to be working out. 

 

If Luck kept feeling pain, maybe he never let it rest properly for a long enough period of time.  I'm not sure how working out helps to rehab a sprained ankle or strained calf.

 

I don't have any direct experience, but Dakich might, having been a player and around other players for several decades.

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13 hours ago, ryan7962 said:

I dont understand why alot of fans are giving luck and the organization a free pass here.  First it was a calf issue, then an ankle issue, then some kind of special bone.  Then you have all these people saying luck looks great doing drills and throwing the ball.  Seems like the organization designated luck with an injury and luck went along with it the whole time. I firmly believe the organization knew about his retirement for months and left the fans out there to dry to see possibly if luck would change his mind.

 

 

Well hell, there are people out there who firmly believe the Earth is flat, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

 

image.png.5319fa0c65898f6ddfbb273baf8b008a.png

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2 hours ago, DougDew said:

I'm just curious, since I'm not a medical professional or a sports trainer.

 

But do you rehab a sore ankle, a high ankle sprain, or "bone issue" in the ankle by working out?

 

IIRC, every football player that has such an injury is maybe placed in a walking boot.   My neighbor's son had tendinitis in his foot and was placed in a boot to immobilize the ankle/foot so it would not be used as he went to school and lived life.

 

That would be the acute phase.  We don't know when that happened for Luck.  We also don't know all the issues he's incurred.  Only one I know for fact (that 'little bone' Irsay told us about) is the Os Trigonum issue.  I'll get to that in a bit.

 

Quote

 

Just seems odd that we never saw AL in a boot of any kind.  And he was always seeming to be working out. 

 

We don't know all of what happened between Jan and April 2019, I do believe. Or up to OTA's, right?

 

Quote

If Luck kept feeling pain, maybe he never let it rest properly for a long enough period of time.  I'm not sure how working out helps to rehab a sprained ankle or strained calf.

 

Typically, after the pain and inflammation reduction would come the task of restoring the range of motion and strength for someone. Hopefully good progress is made and not suffer (many) setbacks.  For the average citizen, getting back to doing daily activities.

 

But for athletes comes neuromuscular training.  Agility drills, plyometrics (that jumping stuff), and other more football/QB specific training drills that are added to finalize recovery, if no issues.  Remember, there is still the mental component here.  Almost without fail, the athlete will have a level of mistrust of the rehabbed part until they finally 'get out there, put it through the test, and even 'take a hit', and get up and brush themselves off suffering no injury.

 

Quote

I don't have any direct experience, but Dakich might, having been a player and around other players for several decades.

 

I don't know his medical knowledge or his injury history. But I don't feel it carries much weight here.

 

For those that want to know more about Os Trigonum, issues and rehab, here-

 

http://www.performingartspt.com/Diagnosis/os Trigonum Syndrome and post impingement.pdf

 

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11 hours ago, stitches said:

Do NOT listen to Dakich! He's a freaking *. He does NOT have sources! He has NOT broken ANY Colts news EVER! He's another know-nothing who pretends to know stuff and sensationalizes unsubstantiated rumors and spits hot takes to gain attention. He's the local version of Skip Bayless. Don't give him the attention!

 

 :troll:

 

Dan Dakich openly admitted on air he quit coaching because his star player transferred, and god who could blame him having to listen to him butcher the English language everyday in person. So he quit on HIS team for much more selfish reasons. That makes him a hypocrite, but even worse as he was in perfect health.

 

Hes a complete *. I would much rather have permanent ringing in my ears for the rest of my life than listen to a single show with him sounding like he has a mouth full of peanut butter and about a 65 IQ.

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47 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

That would be the acute phase.  We don't know when that happened for Luck.  We also don't know all the issues he's incurred.  Only one I know for fact (that 'little bone' Irsay told us about) is the Os Trigonum issue.  I'll get to that in a bit.

 

 

We don't know all of what happened between Jan and April 2019, I do believe. Or up to OTA's, right?

 

 

Typically, after the pain and inflammation reduction would come the task of restoring the range of motion and strength for someone. Hopefully good progress is made and not suffer (many) setbacks.  For the average citizen, getting back to doing daily activities.

 

But for athletes comes neuromuscular training.  Agility drills, plyometrics (that jumping stuff), and other more football/QB specific training drills that are added to finalize recovery, if no issues.  Remember, there is still the mental component here.  Almost without fail, the athlete will have a level of mistrust of the rehabbed part until they finally 'get out there, put it through the test, and even 'take a hit', and get up and brush themselves off suffering no injury.

 

 

I don't know his medical knowledge or his injury history. But I don't feel it carries much weight here.

 

For those that want to know more about Os Trigonum, issues and rehab, here-

 

http://www.performingartspt.com/Diagnosis/os Trigonum Syndrome and post impingement.pdf

 

Right, rest then rehab.  If it hurts when using it to strengthen it, then it needs more rest, or possibly surgery to remove the bone, which was not talked about.  A walking boot provides the best rest, not walking around like a normal citizen.  We don't know if he was ever in a walking boot or not.  I wouldn't want to assume that he was ever in a walking boot when I never saw him in one, and it was never reported that he was.  

 

Nobody knows, but we can add what we were told together to form an opinion.  Could be wrong.

 

Maybe like he admittedly screwed up his shoulder rehab, maybe he screwed up the ankle rehab by never resting it well enough....walking boot.

 

 

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1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Right, rest then rehab.  If it hurts when using it to strengthen it, then it needs more rest, or possibly surgery to remove the bone, which was not talked about.  A walking boot provides the best rest, not walking around like a normal citizen.  We don't know if he was ever in a walking boot or not.  I wouldn't want to assume that he was ever in a walking boot when I never saw him in one, and it was never reported that he was.  

 

Nobody knows, but we can add what we were told together to form an opinion.  Could be wrong.

 

 

 

I generally have a good idea how the medical community approaches these things.

 

I also know Andrew has stated he would no longer skip rehab steps, nor accelerate his progression.  In fact, I get the feeling he may be reluctant to move ahead at times when it time to do so.  But if he feels pain, then it needs to be addressed.

 

But you can't go from walking boot to starting game 1 right away. Medicine isn't take 2 aspirin and call me in the morning anymore.

 

(just retired after 40 years in the healthcare business). 

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