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Archer

So, a pile of cap space now...

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Right?  What do we do with it?  Seems like we can give signing bonuses to multiple re-signees and take them into this year’s cap - Castonzo, Mo-Ali, Denico... What should CB do?

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I don't think we find a $100 million QB.  Nick Foles was always good enough to run Reich's offense.

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Play this season out, roll the cap into other areas, and take a stud like Tua, Herbert, or Fromm next year in the 1st. Then grab one of many stud WRs with our 2nd from the Skins, like Tee Higgins, Ceedee Lamb, or Henry Ruggs. We're sitting good at that point, and really just chalk up this season. We still have the amazing core of guys, the team that Ballard has built. It isn't just the Luck Show like it was in 17. We add Tua and Lamb with TY, Ebron, Parris, and Mack and we're sitting in a great position. 

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13 minutes ago, neug3246 said:

How does luck keeping the money that the colts gave him affect the cap?

 

We get $9.125 million in cap relief this year. I think that's his game checks. Luck is keeping the bonuses.

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14 minutes ago, neug3246 said:

How does luck keeping the money that the colts gave him affect the cap?

 

That's a great question?

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4 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

That's a great question?

The signed a waiver rather than request he return it

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Ballard and Reich seem high on Brissett and will probably try to give him a long term contract after the season. If the Colts end up tanking the season then I'd expect them to draft their future QB in the first round of the 2020 Draft.

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11 hours ago, Archer said:

What do we do with it?  

 

Same thing they were gonna do with it before. They'll be choosy in free agency, and they'll re-sign their own guys. Except now Brissett is a likely retention, instead of a wild card. It might be smart to work on a short extension for him right now. 

 

Other than that, the plan should be mostly the same. 

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Eh, we had a pile of capspace before it too... I don't think it changes much, whatever we are going to do we could do before. Except it being a horrible blow for our championship hopes. Brissett is more likely to stay now... that's about it. 

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14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Same thing they were gonna do with it before. They'll be choosy in free agency, and they'll re-sign their own guys. Except now Brissett is a likely retention, instead of a wild card. It might be smart to work on a short extension for him right now. 

 

Other than that, the plan should be mostly the same. 

I think they will see how Brissett plays first.  I get that they love him and I am higher on him than most but if he doesn’t work out as a starter no point in locking yourself in before you have too.  Yes there is a risk he could play really well and force you to pay more later but I am guessing the Colts will see what they have in him first but I could be wrong.

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Sure would have been nice to have known this back in March...hindsight and all. Could have just signed Foles and still had a legit shot at having a great season IMO...or who knows what the draft would have looked like.

 

My hope is that Brissett is not plan A. I will gladly take some lumps this season to have a legit shot at hand-picking a franchise QB in the draft.

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1 hour ago, DarkSuperman87 said:

Ballard and Reich seem high on Brissett and will probably try to give him a long term contract after the season. If the Colts end up tanking the season then I'd expect them to draft their future QB in the first round of the 2020 Draft.

Man I sure hope not.

 

He is average...at best.  I think below.

 

Nothing he has ever shown me has led to me to think otherwise.

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4 minutes ago, threeflight said:

Man I sure hope not.

 

He is average...at best.  I think below.

 

Nothing he has ever shown me has led to me to think otherwise.

.......and Kelly?

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20 minutes ago, presto123 said:

.......and Kelly?

Really like him.

 

I said today I think his arm is stronger and his release is quicker than Luck's.

 

If he can keep his head together?  He could be really good. 

 

I see NFL qb written all over him.

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There is a saying in baseball that a "player is good enough to get you beat". Just my opinion, Brissett is a nice enough teammate and all but if he is your starter, you will get beat. To me, he is Alex Smith quality....just nothing to get really excited about. To be honest, if the Skins cut Smith, I fear Ballard would grab him for next year. Yuk!!

Unitas, Jones,Manning,Luck....the party is over.

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6 minutes ago, threeflight said:

Really like him.

 

I said today I think his arm is stronger and his release is quicker than Luck's.

 

If he can keep his head together?  He could be really good. 

 

I see NFL qb written all over him.

Might take awhile before Kelly gets his shot. Colts are going to give JB every opportunity to prove himself. I also was not real impressed with games JB has played for the Colts. Wishing him all the best though.

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Chad Kelly has elite arm talent.  Like Mahomes-level arm talent.

 

Think he runs a 4.6 40 as well.  The kid has some elite attributes, he's just raw and a little undersized compared to Brissett. 

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THe Colts FO has been so high on Jacoby, plus Ballard has said we have a really good team...we have literally painted ourselves in a corner now.  They may back him to the point as to not attempt to acquire another high pick at QB.

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As far as Kelly, you can’t deny the way he just takes the offense down the field. I don’t think his size is an issue. I think character and leadership are and he would have to really prove himself in the locker room to ever be seriously considered by Reich and Ballard. He’s done well enough so far but JB has earned his leadership on the team.

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Irsay and that (JA) Grigson ruined Luck his first five years in the NFL.  They allowed him to get completely beat into the ground and now this is a product of all that and it is such a shame as now all the line pieces are in place and ready to actually protect the QB but its to late Luck.  Luck behind this new team would have been wow the sky would have been the limit to and he could actually build of of last years outstanding come back year and it would have probably been amazing really.  I am very saddened and still in denial.  As well as anger as I remember us all seeing the need for Luck's line to get addressed over and over again and year after year nothing and it was embarrassing watching the line being rotated and experimented with like duck duck goose, it is amazing that a GM and owner would sit back and just be ok with that that.  Payton during his entire career didn't take the beating that Andrew faced in one year under Grigson. shameful  and when asked last night if he regrets those five years of Andrews career with such a terrible line Irsay says "NO".  Pretty sad all around...      

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4 hours ago, threeflight said:

Really like him.

 

I said today I think his arm is stronger and his release is quicker than Luck's.

 

If he can keep his head together?  He could be really good. 

 

I see NFL qb written all over him.

 

2 hours ago, LockeDown said:

As far as Kelly, you can’t deny the way he just takes the offense down the field. I don’t think his size is an issue. I think character and leadership are and he would have to really prove himself in the locker room to ever be seriously considered by Reich and Ballard. He’s done well enough so far but JB has earned his leadership on the team.

You guys keep harping on about not seeing enough from Brissett to impress you, but C Kelly is the 2nd coming of T Brady... apparently?

 

but what has C Kelly actually shown us? He’s played well in preseason... but against no name shmucks who won’t be on nfl rosters or even practice squads, 3rd stringers and backups... if he is even a bad level starting QB you would expect as much.... He’s also shown us he is a knucklehead who was drafted last overall because of his character issues (a big deal for Ballard and co.) and has already been kicked off an nfl roster because of it.

 

Compared to what C Kelly has ACTUSLLY shown us, Brissett looks like the second coming of Jesus Christ himself. Brissett played behind a terrible o line (worse than some teams backups probably), with no defense or running game to speak of and still won 4 games... and we were in a lot more too. We could’ve easily finished .500 or higher in 2017 if the cards fell slightly differently. He was NOT the problem in 2017 and we didn’t lose any games because of him.

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1 hour ago, Chucklez said:

 

You guys keep harping on about not seeing enough from Brissett to impress you, but C Kelly is the 2nd coming of T Brady... apparently?

 

but what has C Kelly actually shown us? He’s played well in preseason... but against no name shmucks who won’t be on nfl rosters or even practice squads, 3rd stringers and backups... if he is even a bad level starting QB you would expect as much.... He’s also shown us he is a knucklehead who was drafted last overall because of his character issues (a big deal for Ballard and co.) and has already been kicked off an nfl roster because of it.

 

Compared to what C Kelly has ACTUSLLY shown us, Brissett looks like the second coming of Jesus Christ himself. Brissett played behind a terrible o line (worse than some teams backups probably), with no defense or running game to speak of and still won 4 games... and we were in a lot more too. We could’ve easily finished .500 or higher in 2017 if the cards fell slightly differently. He was NOT the problem in 2017 and we didn’t lose any games because of him.

You won’t see any anti JB in my post. Just commented on Kelly

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18 hours ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

Play this season out, roll the cap into other areas, and take a stud like Tua, Herbert, or Fromm next year in the 1st. Then grab one of many stud WRs with our 2nd from the Skins, like Tee Higgins, Ceedee Lamb, or Henry Ruggs. We're sitting good at that point, and really just chalk up this season. We still have the amazing core of guys, the team that Ballard has built. It isn't just the Luck Show like it was in 17. We add Tua and Lamb with TY, Ebron, Parris, and Mack and we're sitting in a great position. 

I don't know man, I am hoping Trevor Lawrence says he will enter the draft next year, and if not the colts hold off until the following year when he does. I think Sunshine will be the next big QB to come out of the draft. 

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Irsay is allowing Luck to keep his entire pay, even though he is retired.  Seems the team is still on the hook for Luck's cap hit.

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5 hours ago, zibby43 said:

Chad Kelly has elite arm talent.  Like Mahomes-level arm talent.

 

Think he runs a 4.6 40 as well.  The kid has some elite attributes, he's just raw and a little undersized compared to Brissett. 

 

If Kelly is coached up to be smart with his decisions, his quick release should help his longevity. 

 

The last thing we want to be is in purgatory in the 6-8 win range year after year. So, we have to take some chances to not end up like teams like the Dolphins, Bengals etc.

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43 minutes ago, Deadpool said:

I don't know man, I am hoping Trevor Lawrence says he will enter the draft next year, and if not the colts hold off until the following year when he does. I think Sunshine will be the next big QB to come out of the draft. 

Pretty sure he can't.  He's not eligible until the 2021 draft.  Next year is Herbert, Tua, and Fromm as the frontrunners for first round QBs.

 

Could you imagine if we went from Peyton to Luck to Lawrence though, with only 2-3 years of QB purgatory between them all? That would be insane.

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Look for a possible extension or two I think by Sept or Oct.  I read we have to spend 24 million. We can’t roll it all over. 

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8 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think they will see how Brissett plays first.  I get that they love him and I am higher on him than most but if he doesn’t work out as a starter no point in locking yourself in before you have too.  Yes there is a risk he could play really well and force you to pay more later but I am guessing the Colts will see what they have in him first but I could be wrong.

a one year extension could be a smart move, he wont get premium QB money now.  gives us time to figure out if hes the guy and flexibility to move on at the same time 

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3 hours ago, Chucklez said:

You guys keep harping on about not seeing enough from Brissett to impress you, but C Kelly is the 2nd coming of T Brady... apparently?

 

but what has C Kelly actually shown us? He’s played well in preseason... but against no name shmucks who won’t be on nfl rosters or even practice squads, 3rd stringers and backups... 

 

Compared to what C Kelly has ACTUSLLY shown us, Brissett looks like the second coming of Jesus Christ himself. Brissett played behind a terrible o line (worse than some teams backups probably), with no defense or running game to speak of and still won 4 games... and we were in a lot more too.

 

There are certain traits that's not possible judge from a preseason game. Personality, leadership, stress-tolerance, "clutchness", etc. But there are certain aspects that we can judge. A throw is a throw, pressure is pressure. pocket movement is pocket movement, - and in some exctent - reading defenses is reading defenses whether it's a 1st team against firsts or third string againts thirds. They call NFL plays for all of them. Kelly has waay less experience than Brissett, and already looks better in the pocket. And he has touch, Brissett barely has any. I believe Kelly is also noticeably "quicker" than Brissett. I'm not talking about scrambling. I'm talking about the time they need to make a throw. Take a 5 step play for example, and watch the quickness of their feet, the time they need to take their throwing position, the release times, etc. These all add up together, resulting in a quicker or slower all-together time to make a throw. This is step one of quarterbacking, step two is the time they need to read the field, the speed of their "processor", the football smartness, etc. But step one is where each QB starts from, and for example, this was Tim Tebow's fatal flaw, because he was sooo slow to get to throwing position, and his release was sooo slow, that it was too much to compensate with quicker "processing" or better reading. He was technically (athletically) too flawed.

 

Brissett is just naturally slow. Not as slow as Tebow was of course, but slow, compared to most starters in the league. That's the main reason I believe he has quite low ceiling. Because regardless of how much he spends in the filmroom to learn reading defenses, how well he learns to adjust pre-snap, he has a disadvantage. Remember, a few tenth of a second regarding this is a lifetime. Luck's average release last year came down by something like 0.4 seconds, and that fraction of a second jumped him from the bottom within the top 10 in releasing the ball. If Brissett needs 0.4 seconds more to make that 5 step back, 0.1 seconds more to take the throwing position, then needs 0.1 seconds more to throw the ball, it might just be too much to compensate to. Kelly is quick, so he can start from a much better step one. That's why - amongst other reasons - I believe his ceiling is higher. 

 

Of course, as Ballard said this summer, your ceiling has been given by God, but you floor depends on your character. So I am not saying Kelly should start. Heck, I don't even think he should start AT ALL this season. This year should be Brissett's year, regardless of how good he'll play (unless he's trully hitting the floor). But in the long term, assuming Kelly will stay out of trouble and be this "model citizen" as recently, I see more potencial in him.

 

(That means for example, that I would not extend Brissett before the end of the season. He may be cheaper if signed now, but there's very little demand on the market at the moment for a QB like Brissett. Foles had to settle with 22 mills, Brissett will not even get that much. So I'd be OK to just let this year play out, watch Brissett playing, and watch Kelly in practices. Tthen decide about them in next february/march, based on what we have seen this year. Another reason for being patient is that by february we'll know where we will draft, and we have seen Tua, Fromm, Herbert, etc. for one more year too.)

 

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3 hours ago, Chucklez said:

 

 He was NOT the problem in 2017 and we didn’t lose any games because of him.

 

Absolutely agree.

 

He only threw 7 int's, but 3 or 4 of those were near the end of close games. I remember one of those was a fluke tip that was returned for a pick 6.

 

Despite being sacked 52 times, Brissett only turned the ball over 10 times.

 

                                   

                                          comp%               QB rating            turnovers

 

Brissett    2017 :                58.8                         81.7                         10

 

Manning 1998 :                 56.7                         71.2                         30

 

Luck        2012 :                 54.1                          76.5                         23  

 

 

 

 

 

 

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If this thread is also about who the Colts could possibly get at qb, look for the Colts to maneuver to get into position to draft Justin Love. When you stop laughing, remember I said it in Aug 2019.

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46 minutes ago, egg said:

 

Absolutely agree.

 

He only threw 7 int's, but 3 or 4 of those were near the end of close games. I remember one of those was a fluke tip that was returned for a pick 6.

 

Despite being sacked 52 times, Brissett only turned the ball over 10 times.

 

                                   

                                          comp%               QB rating            turnovers

 

Brissett    2017 :                58.8                         81.7                         10

 

Manning 1998 :                 56.7                         71.2                         30

 

Luck        2012 :                 54.1                          76.5                         23  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From Colts.com...

 

In 2014, Brissett was one of three quarterbacks in college football to record 2,000 passing yards, 300 rushing yards, 20 passing touchdowns and less than five interceptions, with the other two being Marcus Mariota and Brett Hundley.

- His 23 touchdowns in 2014 are the seventh-most in a season in North Carolina State history.

- Threw 187 consecutive passes without an interception during the season, the seventh-longest streak in ACC history.

 

Not turning the ball over is a big deal, and worth a lot.

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11 hours ago, dew5150 said:

We get $9.125 million in cap relief this year. I think that's his game checks. Luck is keeping the bonuses.

He doesn't deserve the bonus money..period

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2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Look for a possible extension or two I think by Sept or Oct.  I read we have to spend 24 million. We can’t roll it all over. 

 

It's possible that they'll extend players during the season, but they don't have to. They can roll forward whatever unused cap space they have into 2020.

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Just now, Superman said:

 

It's possible that they'll extend players during the season, but they don't have to. They can roll forward whatever unused cap space they have into 2020.

They can only roll over 50m. They will lose the rest and it will be distributed to the players.

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Just now, Chloe6124 said:

They can only roll over 50m. They will lose the rest and it will be distributed to the players.

 

Based on what?

 

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5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Based on what?

 

It has to do with reaching  that 89% I believe. If they don’t then they get fined but in reality it just gets distributed to the players on the team as bonus.

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4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

It has to do with reaching  that 89% I believe. If they don’t then they get fined but in reality it just gets distributed to the players on the team as bonus.

 

Not what I'm asking.

 

What's your source for the idea that they can only roll forward a specific amount?

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4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Not what I'm asking.

 

What's your source for the idea that they can only roll forward a specific amount?

I would have to go find a actual source. I heard it on a podcast. I think it is pretty well know they have to spend 89% this year. That has been talked about on this board a ton.

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