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luvdacolts67

Bert Jones not Luck

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 I read this form all the time but have not written anything in many years .   Today I find myself compelled to do so.   I have seen that several fans have written that Andrew luck is Burt Jones 2.   I wish to stand up for Burt Jones.   He was an incredible quarterback for the Colts.   He had the heart of a champion he just played for a very very bad cold cream throughout his career which was shortened because of injuryS.   He gave his heart and his physical body every time he got on the field for the Colts he did not ever ever once quit because he couldn’t take it mentally.   He retired because he physically couldn’t play the game anymore.   He gave his all.   This is not what Andrew luck did.   He quit a team two weeks before the season starts yes he has an injury but he said he mentally couldn’t take it that tells me he has no heart of a champion that is the big difference between him and Bert Jones.   Burt Jones was a champion at heart that’s the kind of quarterback I want on this team not someone who can’t mentally take it.

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Bert was a great quarterback . 1976 league MVP and offensive player of the year. It was a very good career, and he did give it his all. I think most of the comparisons between Luck and Jones are due to unfortunate injuries, and a shortened career that could have held so much more promise. 

 

Its also hard when you are following the careers of Unitas and Manning. A very tall order indeed. 

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 But there is a difference in the two.   Burt Jones had the heart of a champion and gave it all he had physically and mentally .   When Andrew luck says he can’t take it mentally anymore I have a problem with that because it shows me where his heart is and that he does not have the heart of a champion.    It’s what Peyton Manning had when he came back from next surgery it’s what Roberto Derann had when he came back after No Mas.    It’s what Rocky Bleier had after he got shot in Vietnam.   These guys were champion and Andrew luck just doesn’t have it .   As a Colts fan for over half of a century I am glad he’s not a quarterback anymore it’s time to find a guy who has the heart to win a Super Bowl .

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Andrew Luck played on teams that were mediocre up until last season and he still had a record of 53-33. Bert Jones was 47-49 in his career. Luck was better, JMO. Luck carried the Colts to 3 straight 11-5 seasons and had 1 game where he had a RB go over 100 yards. That is unreal. Luck could also run at times and was more accurate than Jones was. Jones only completed 56% of his passes.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Andrew Luck played on teams that were mediocre up until last season and he still had a record of 53-33. Bert Jones was 47-49 in his career. Luck was better, JMO. Luck carried the Colts to 3 straight 11-5 seasons and had 1 game where he had a RB go over 100 yards. That is unreal. Luck could also run at times and was more accurate than Jones was. Jones only completed 56% of his passes.

 

Its hard to compare era’s, but Bert was on some of the worst Colt teams of all time, except for the three division winners. The NFL rules back then really brought down the competition percentages and inflated interception levels. 

Luck also had it better playing for Irsay II , rather than Irsay I. Bert has the Colts close 75-77, but they had to go through those powerhouse Steeler and Raiders teams back then. 

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3 minutes ago, The Old Crow said:

 

Its hard to compare era’s, but Bert was on some of the worst Colt teams of all time, except for the three division winners. The NFL rules back then really brought down the competition percentages and inflated interception levels. 

Luck also had it better playing for Irsay II , rather than Irsay I. Bert has the Colts close 75-77, but they had to go through those powerhouse Steeler and Raiders teams back then. 

Nothing against Bert, he was a great talent in his own right. Luck always had to deal with the Pats as well. Luck had no running game from 2012-2014. I agree though, comparing era's is tough.

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This topic really wasn’t about the ability there’s no question Andrew luck is or I should say was an incredible talent it’s about heart and people comparing Bert Jones with luck as if they were both busts.   Burt Jones retired because he absolutely could not physically play rock quit in his words he did not have the mental ability anymore .   Burt Jones had the heart of a champion Andrew luck did not.   I would take a Burke Jones any day of the week over and Andrew luck.

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2 hours ago, The Old Crow said:

 

Its hard to compare era’s, but Bert was on some of the worst Colt teams of all time, except for the three division winners. The NFL rules back then really brought down the competition percentages and inflated interception levels. 

Luck also had it better playing for Irsay II , rather than Irsay I. Bert has the Colts close 75-77, but they had to go through those powerhouse Steeler and Raiders teams back then. 

This is correct, both are were great! Different personalities though. Same skill set!

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2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Andrew Luck played on teams that were mediocre up until last season and he still had a record of 53-33. Bert Jones was 47-49 in his career. Luck was better, JMO. Luck carried the Colts to 3 straight 11-5 seasons and had 1 game where he had a RB go over 100 yards. That is unreal. Luck could also run at times and was more accurate than Jones was. Jones only completed 56% of his passes.

Even Joe Namath once called Bert Jones "the best in the business".

I don't recall anyone credible calling Andrew the best in the league.

 

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7 minutes ago, CanuckColt said:

Even Joe Namath once called Bert Jones "the best in the business".

I don't recall anyone credible calling Andrew the best in the league.

 

There have been several players and coaches say Luck is great. Of course nobody called Luck the best in the business while he was playing. Maybe because Peyton had a career year in 2013 and Tom Brady has played and won SB's since Luck has been in the league. Only a dope would say Luck is better than Peyton or Tom.

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I think Luck’s legacy and comparisons would be to Bert Jones or Roman Gabriel. Very good quarterbacks, injuries , didn’t win a title. 

Gabriel and Jones were both league MVP’s. Gabriel was in four pro bowls. All these guys are a step below the Unitas/ Brady/ Manning / Montana types. 

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I would make this a put down on Luck, but it's " Unitas/Manning for 1 and 2 with Bert Jones #3  and Luck #4..

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7 minutes ago, ColtJax said:

I would make this a put down on Luck, but it's " Unitas/Manning for 1 and 2 with Bert Jones #3  and Luck #4..

I would change Jones and Luck based on playoff wins. But they are so close!!

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I would have,

1. Peyton

2. Unitas

3. Luck

4. Jones 

5. Harbaugh for 1995 alone

 

-Screw Morrall he was terrible in SB 3. He gave the Jets the game.

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9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would have,

1. Peyton

2. Unitas

3. Luck

4. Jones 

5. Harbaugh for 1995 alone

 

-Screw Morrall he was terrible in SB 3. He gave the Jets the game.

 

Despite Earl blowing Super Bowl 3, you have to put him ahead of Harbaugh. He was a three time Super Bowl Champion including Super Bowl 5, NFL MVP in 1968, NFL passer rating leader in 1972. 

If only Earl had even a mediocre game in Super Bowl 3, we would have won, and Namath would have never made the HOF. 

 

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46 minutes ago, The Old Crow said:

I think Luck’s legacy and comparisons would be to Bert Jones or Roman Gabriel. Very good quarterbacks, injuries , didn’t win a title. 

Gabriel and Jones were both league MVP’s. Gabriel was in four pro bowls. All these guys are a step below the Unitas/ Brady/ Manning / Montana types. 

It takes a rare QB to be a Unitas, Peyton, Montana, Elway, or a Brady. You have to love the game and the game has to be your life for 20 years basically. It was/is with those 5. It isn't with Luck which I thought it was. That is where I misread how I was thinking where I said he would play on opening day, play through pain even all season. Brett Favre loved the game, he would play with broken bones if he had too.  

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3 minutes ago, The Old Crow said:

 

Despite Earl blowing Super Bowl 3, you have to put him ahead of Harbaugh. He was a three time Super Bowl Champion including Super Bowl 5, NFL MVP in 1968, NFL passer rating leader in 1972. 

If only Earl had even a mediocre game in Super Bowl 3, we would have won, and Namath would have never made the HOF. 

 

Yeah you are probably right. I just hate watching SB 3, Morrall made so many goofy mistakes. 1 of his SB wins was with Miami though and Unitas started in SB 5, the one the Colts won.

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2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah you are probably right. I just hate watching SB 3, Morrall made so many goofy mistakes. 1 of his SB wins was with Miami though and Unitas started in SB 5, the one the Colts won.

 

I also hate watching Super Bowl 3. When you watch it, you see how the Colts should have been killing the Jets in the first half. Morrall was plain awful in that game. This is still a very painful loss , that should never have occurred. How can you be 13-1, crush the Browns 34-0 in the NFL Championship game, then lose to a bunch of bums. Shula also is to blame for that loss. 

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Just for the fun of it, I would urge everyone who sees this to go to YouTube and search, 'Bert Jones'. Look for a 5:59 video. He talks about his attitude and injuries plus it shows a few highlights..There are a number of videos with many more highlights on them. For all of us oldtimers it is great fun. I think you younger people will enjoy it too. :) 

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3 hours ago, luvdacolts67 said:

This topic really wasn’t about the ability there’s no question Andrew luck is or I should say was an incredible talent it’s about heart and people comparing Bert Jones with luck as if they were both busts.   Burt Jones retired because he absolutely could not physically play rock quit in his words he did not have the mental ability anymore .   Burt Jones had the heart of a champion Andrew luck did not.   I would take a Burke Jones any day of the week over and Andrew luck.

Bert, Burt and Burke?.....I had no idea there were triplets. haha jk

 

Anyway.....I can see you're point to an extent....its all about their priorities in life. Andrew made his decision and having been maimed for well over half his time in the NFL....I can see his side of it too.

 

The only thing that will really tick me off is if this ankle/calf issue of Andrew's was the result of another snowboarding mishap like his shoulder setback was.

 

Does he have the right to do what he wants for off-season? Yes

Does his choice of off-season recreation indicate his priorities? Absolutely.

 

If I remember right, Bert Jones liked hunting down in the Bayou... which is probably much safer for a football player than snowboarding....

 

.... as long as don't bring Bobby Knight with you. :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, pacolts56 said:

Bert, Burt and Burke?.....I had no idea there were triplets. haha jk

 

Anyway.....I can see you're point to an extent....its all about their priorities in life. Andrew made his decision and having been maimed for well over half his time in the NFL....I can see his side of it too.

 

The only thing that will really tick me off is if this ankle/calf issue of Andrew's was the result of another snowboarding mishap like his shoulder setback was.

 

Does he have the right to do what he wants for off-season? Yes

Does his choice of off-season recreation indicate his priorities? Absolutely.

 

If I remember right, Bert Jones liked hunting down in the Bayou... which is probably much safer for a football player than snowboarding....

 

.... as long as don't bring Bobby Knight with you. :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

Lol  it’s my phone or can I say 

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Bill Belichik said Bert Jones was the best pure passer that ever played. Not a bad accolade to put by Joe Namath calling him the best.

 

Saying Luck gave less than Bert Jones, or really anybody else, is just wrong though. Forget the teams he had for a minute. Every quarterback or inherits that or goes through that. The main reason I respect Luck’s decision is for a reason that everybody here knows but doesn’t like to repeat - the Colts organization is ran worse than patrolled dumpster fire. I mean they investigated the Titans not to long ago. Between Irsay’s neurotic behavior and all the mysterious medical stuff that has gone on...I won’t say it but I don’t have to now. Luck has been around the world and back over basic injuries that finally healed 2 years later. After all that Colts doctors couldn’t tell the difference between a calf and and ankle apparently. A staph infection was probably next, then an amputation. I mean that’s not even a stretch the way it was going. I don’t blame him. 

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2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It takes a rare QB to be a Unitas, Peyton, Montana, Elway, or a Brady. You have to love the game and the game has to be your life for 20 years basically. It was/is with those 5. It isn't with Luck which I thought it was. That is where I misread how I was thinking where I said he would play on opening day, play through pain even all season. Brett Favre loved the game, he would play with broken bones if he had too.  

I believe it actually IS/WAS Andrew's life.  Last night's presser sounded like he was suicidal and walking away as an intervention. I wish Andrew nothing but the best, and a pain free life. Hes a Class Act, and an Elite QB.

 

Side Note: by the way- the Team Doctor, that cant figure out Andrew's injury- misdiagnosed my Daughter's knee 20 years ago.  Maybe just coincidence, but, not -in my opinion....

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I don't blame Andrew for what has happened. The QB's that played in the 60's - or any other player for that matter had other jobs besides football. These players, not as talented or specialized as today's athletes, were tough as nails. In the 70's, QB's had to deal with head hunting with no rules to protect them or anybody else. It is flat out amazing guys like Brian Sipe, Bradshaw, Jones and Manning sr. played as long as they did. Sipe is jellied out, Bradshaw is not far behind. Bert Jones's career ended too soon. Archie ran like a rabbit, played a long time and never saw the playoffs. 80's - 90's saw the offensive lines getting huge. 300 plus pounds was getting to be the norm. Passers began to have prolific numbers, rules changed to protect the recievers. These guys like Marino, Kelly,Elway and Montana were always in the big games. Their careers were long and fruitful.

Today's athletes are highly trained and specialized. No dought better conditioned, well fed and pampered since middle school. Mental toughness you cannot teach. There are some who have it and some don't. These guys don't have to be old school tough as nails. They make enough money that they can walk away after 5 years and call it a career. With the size and speed of today's players, every collision is a car wreck accident. The rules to protect the players can only do so much. I believe the average NFL career is 4 years. The game is going to get younger

and careers will be shorter. Why get beat up to play longer? play 5 and get out with your marbles intact.

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, luvdacolts67 said:

 I read this form all the time but have not written anything in many years .   Today I find myself compelled to do so.   I have seen that several fans have written that Andrew luck is Burt Jones 2.   I wish to stand up for Burt Jones.   He was an incredible quarterback for the Colts.   He had the heart of a champion he just played for a very very bad cold cream throughout his career which was shortened because of injuryS.   He gave his heart and his physical body every time he got on the field for the Colts he did not ever ever once quit because he couldn’t take it mentally.   He retired because he physically couldn’t play the game anymore.   He gave his all.   This is not what Andrew luck did.   He quit a team two weeks before the season starts yes he has an injury but he said he mentally couldn’t take it that tells me he has no heart of a champion that is the big difference between him and Bert Jones.   Burt Jones was a champion at heart that’s the kind of quarterback I want on this team not someone who can’t mentally take it.

U can see 2 ways.  He had an incredible heart or just plain dumb for playing all those years getting beat up.  It is a different game today.  Players r getting millions allowing them to retire sooner. Plus the science is out there with regards to injuries and their long term effects.  It's just not worth it. 

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9 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

U can see 2 ways.  He had an incredible heart or just plain dumb for playing all those years getting beat up.  It is a different game today.  Players r getting millions allowing them to retire sooner. Plus the science is out there with regards to injuries and their long term effects.  It's just not worth it. 

 The other thing I thought was maybe he just really never wanted to play football and didn’t love the game the way players who fight back from Bad injuries do to play again.   It’s possible I don’t know his heart .   No question it’s his decision to make  it’s the way this happened that bothers me .  IMO  if he ever tries to come back I hope it’s not with the colts.   His press conference told me a lot about him and it’s time we MoveOn take our huge loss that this is and try to build a Super Bowl team.  

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On 8/25/2019 at 11:16 AM, luvdacolts67 said:

 I read this form all the time but have not written anything in many years .   Today I find myself compelled to do so.   I have seen that several fans have written that Andrew luck is Burt Jones 2.   I wish to stand up for Burt Jones.   He was an incredible quarterback for the Colts.   He had the heart of a champion he just played for a very very bad cold cream throughout his career which was shortened because of injuryS.   He gave his heart and his physical body every time he got on the field for the Colts he did not ever ever once quit because he couldn’t take it mentally.   He retired because he physically couldn’t play the game anymore.   He gave his all.   This is not what Andrew luck did.   He quit a team two weeks before the season starts yes he has an injury but he said he mentally couldn’t take it that tells me he has no heart of a champion that is the big difference between him and Bert Jones.   Burt Jones was a champion at heart that’s the kind of quarterback I want on this team not someone who can’t mentally take it.

Anyone comparing luck aka mental midget with Bert Jones should search YouTube on the MNF game vs Redskins. He kept coming in despite having tremendous pain with a separated shoulder which he mostly couldn't even raise. 

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2 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

Anyone comparing luck aka mental midget with Bert Jones should search YouTube on the MNF game vs Redskins. He kept coming in despite having tremendous pain with a separated shoulder which he mostly couldn't even raise. 

That game was a classic!  Fully displayed what a great warrior Bert Jones was!  

 

I still stand by the notion that Bert Jones is the greatest QB not in the HOF.

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22 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

Bill Belichik said Bert Jones was the best pure passer that ever played. Not a bad accolade to put by Joe Namath calling him the best.

 

Saying Luck gave less than Bert Jones, or really anybody else, is just wrong though. Forget the teams he had for a minute. Every quarterback or inherits that or goes through that. The main reason I respect Luck’s decision is for a reason that everybody here knows but doesn’t like to repeat - the Colts organization is ran worse than patrolled dumpster fire. I mean they investigated the Titans not to long ago. Between Irsay’s neurotic behavior and all the mysterious medical stuff that has gone on...I won’t say it but I don’t have to now. Luck has been around the world and back over basic injuries that finally healed 2 years later. After all that Colts doctors couldn’t tell the difference between a calf and and ankle apparently. A staph infection was probably next, then an amputation. I mean that’s not even a stretch the way it was going. I don’t blame him. 

Colts have looked incompetent through all this.  Can’t deny that.  Smh. 

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On 8/25/2019 at 11:16 AM, luvdacolts67 said:

 I read this form all the time but have not written anything in many years .   Today I find myself compelled to do so.   I have seen that several fans have written that Andrew luck is Burt Jones 2.   I wish to stand up for Burt Jones.   He was an incredible quarterback for the Colts.   He had the heart of a champion he just played for a very very bad cold cream throughout his career which was shortened because of injuryS.   He gave his heart and his physical body every time he got on the field for the Colts he did not ever ever once quit because he couldn’t take it mentally.   He retired because he physically couldn’t play the game anymore.   He gave his all.   This is not what Andrew luck did.   He quit a team two weeks before the season starts yes he has an injury but he said he mentally couldn’t take it that tells me he has no heart of a champion that is the big difference between him and Bert Jones.   Burt Jones was a champion at heart that’s the kind of quarterback I want on this team not someone who can’t mentally take it.

Beet Jones was my favorite Colt QB.... until Peyton.

  I watched Bert as a child in memorial.  He WAS tough.  Rib injuries are no joke.

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7 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Colts have looked incompetent through all this.  Can’t deny that.  Smh. 

Uh, no.  You went off the deep end on this one.  Yes, it appears this was handled badly (possibly), but the organization IS NOT a dumpster fire.  Thats just emotional crazy-talk.

 

note: sorry, this linked to wrong post

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Thank god I didn't inherit the "comparison" gene. I'll never understand the need to elevate one, while putting down another. I am a guitar player and they are the worst. They constantly rate them. It seems it is a genetic need in some. 

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Could we just strike Andrew Luck's name from the Colts organization forever? Kinda like what happened to Moses when he was banned from Egypt?

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1 hour ago, Four2itus said:

Thank god I didn't inherit the "comparison" gene. I'll never understand the need to elevate one, while putting down another. I am a guitar player and they are the worst. They constantly rate them. It seems it is a genetic need in some. 

Lol  that’s funny because I’m a guitar player also.   I was responding to people who were saying  Andrew luck is Bert Jones the second that’s all.   As a matter of fact I am seeing one of the greatest riff guitarist of all time when I go see the Rolling Stones tonight.

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2 minutes ago, luvdacolts67 said:

Lol  that’s funny because I’m a guitar player also.   I was responding to people who were saying  Andrew luck is Bert Jones the second that’s all.   As a matter of fact I am seeing one of the greatest riff guitarist of all time when I go see the Rolling Stones tonight.

I figured so, and it wasn't directed at you...just the general thought pattern. 

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1 hour ago, WoolMagnet said:

Beet Jones was my favorite Colt QB.... until Peyton.

  I watched Bert as a child in memorial.  He WAS tough.  Rib injuries are no joke.

Side Note: I've got a brick from Memorial Stadium.  I was born in Baltimore Women's Hospital. (Pretty sure it doesn't exist now)

 

Not a Marty Domres fan???

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Jones was a Ram when he retired. He never quit the Colts. He was traded...

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Bert was so good, had he not been injured, the Colts may have stayed in Baltimore, and Peyton would never have been a Colt...

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45 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

I figured so, and it wasn't directed at you...just the general thought pattern. 

 Honestly I don’t rank guitar players because they have different styles  and are better at some things than others.  Being a better guitar player is very subjective to one own personal likes and dislikes.  

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