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VaAllDay757

Irsay is to blame for most of this

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He hired grigs for whatever reason not knowing he was not cut for the GM job....he never made it clear to protect luck no matter what then they drafted wrong so wrong it never made sense....you can say what you want but this goes to show that they lied about the 2017 season when luck would be "ready" now he's retiring smh

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3 minutes ago, ReMeDy said:

Okay, but how is it Irsay's fault Luck was injured snowboarding?:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000959225/article/andrew-luck-opens-up-about-snowboarding-accident-injury


How does Irsay protect Luck from something like that? If injuries are to blame for Luck's retirement, perhaps Luck shouldn't have been so irresponsible.

I'm talking about all the past injuries....with luck missing the whole 2017 season it brought him to reality where he probably felt peaceful and not have to worry about getting hurt if they made sure protecting luck was the first priority back then we wouldn't be having the conversation

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Picking a GM is like picking a player or a coach.  They don't all work out.

 

And if Irsay is responsible for how Grigs panned out, then he's also responsible for how Ballard has.

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Irsay isn’t to blame for any of this. The guy loves his team and us the fans. He gave that old regime so many chances to be successful. I’m not even mad at Luck. He wasn’t enjoying being in the training room year after year. 

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Poor QB protection is something you just cannot afford when you build your team around an elite QB.  True, Grigson failed at fixing the OL, but I put just as much blame on Polian.  Reliable players on the OL were allowed to leave and old & young Polian never replaced them.  People seem to forget that at the end of his time here Manning had to learn how to take the snap and get rid of the ball quickly because the protection couldn't give him much time.  IMO, this led to having to run quick passes up the middle that got players like Collie decapitated on occasion.

 

The OL was neglected for many seasons.  I never understood why Irsay put up with it for so long.

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16 minutes ago, Turftoe said:

Poor QB protection is something you just cannot afford when you build your team around an elite QB.  True, Grigson failed at fixing the OL, but I put just as much blame on Polian.  Reliable players on the OL were allowed to leave and old & young Polian never replaced them.  People seem to forget that at the end of his time here Manning had to learn how to take the snap and get rid of the ball quickly because the protection couldn't give him much time.  IMO, this led to having to run quick passes up the middle that got players like Collie decapitated on occasion.

 

The OL was neglected for many seasons.  I never understood why Irsay put up with it for so long.

#Facts

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As of today Andrew Luck is the past, finger pointing and navel gazing won't change that.  We all saw the last seven years, Andrew chose to move on, why ask why?  We all kinda know.  Bottom line, he's no longer in the league.  Colts still play 16 games on 17 weeks starting really soon.

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3 hours ago, ReMeDy said:

Okay, but how is it Irsay's fault Luck was injured snowboarding?:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000959225/article/andrew-luck-opens-up-about-snowboarding-accident-injury


How does Irsay protect Luck from something like that? If injuries are to blame for Luck's retirement, perhaps Luck shouldn't have been so irresponsible.

Exactly, this is all on luck. Even this calf injury was during the off-season.  This is all on luck, wait no...its on the Colts now.

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Grigson tried to protect Luck. He drafted linemen early; Kelly, Mewhort, Thornton, Holmes, and he brought them in through free agency; Cherilus, Satele. He just brought in the wrong ones because he wasn’t a good GM. Plus the offensive scheme wasn’t conducive to protecting the franchise. It is not on Irsay that Luck wasn’t protected. 

 

Once it became obvious that Grigson wasn’t doing the job, Irsay got rid of him. I think Luck was destined for an early retirement anyway. There were rumors that his love for the game wasn’t all there for the last few years, we were all just living in denial....and for good reason. His early retirement blindsided everyone, including the people at the top. 

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3 hours ago, Turftoe said:

Poor QB protection is something you just cannot afford when you build your team around an elite QB

 

I think that too many people used the word elite to describe Andrew Luck.  He's not an elite QB.

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2 hours ago, Sumo63 said:

As of today Andrew Luck is the past, finger pointing and navel gazing won't change that.  We all saw the last seven years, Andrew chose to move on, why ask why?  We all kinda know.  Bottom line, he's no longer in the league.  Colts still play 16 games on 17 weeks starting really soon.

 

Navel gazing?? 

 

lmao

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I like Jim Irsay, I think he is a good guy who knows far more about football than most owners.  I do not place Luck's retirement (one of the most shocking in pro sports history) entirely on his shoulders.  But I think Irsay was cavalier in his handling of AL and should regret a number of things:

 

- Publicly calling out "the space between his ears," effectively questioning out loud the mental toughness of a man who played football with a lacerated kidney

- Publicly talking about Luck's most recent rehab and inviting the world to ponder what "small little bone" was stopping AL from playing

- Assuring everyone (unlike his wise GM) that AL would be back for 2017

 

Every single writer covering the Colts has talked about how intensely private AL is, but Irsay couldn't stop himself from airing these things out publicly.  I imagine this added to the mental strain which frustrated Luck.

 

I also think Irsay should regret hiring a defensive HC rather than a QB whisperer/guru who focused on raising a young QB, instead saddling him with having to endure learning a new system practically every year from Arians/Hamilton/Chud.

 

He should regret standing idly by while Arians called seven step drop after seven stop drop behind a pathetic offensive line.   He should regret sticking with a GM who once bragged that you didn't need to draft centers and (other than taking Kelly) couldn't draft or OLs to save his life.  

 

When you are gifted a Ferrari, you do everything you can to make sure it is well maintained.  IMO, Irsay didn't do that.  Many young QBs have been ruined by getting annihilated in their first couple years (David Carr for example) but it didn't seem to stop Luck, but clearly it wore him down.  Andrew was raised in the NFL and by all accounts loved football as much as anyone, but what he went through as a Colts QB caused him to walk away from it all.  Irsay needs to reflect on that.  I imagine he will, and how a man who (incredibly) was able to draft Elway, Manning, and Luck sadly ended up with only one ring.

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Hey guys new to the forum..

 

Just wanted to ask a question. Any one else completely heart broken? I'm confused, *, but mainly heart broken. I'm a 26yr man with 3 kids. But I've cried several times tonight. I feel like this day was  a terrible dream

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6 hours ago, VaAllDay757 said:

He hired grigs for whatever reason not knowing he was not cut for the GM job....he never made it clear to protect luck no matter what then they drafted wrong so wrong it never made sense....you can say what you want but this goes to show that they lied about the 2017 season when luck would be "ready" now he's retiring smh

Why should anyone have to tell a GM that his franchise QB needs to be protected? Hell, my Chihuahua even knows that. Luck took a beating for years and IMO that's on Grigson.

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7 minutes ago, Fat Clemenza said:

I like Jim Irsay, I think he is a good guy who knows far more about football than most owners.  I do not place Luck's retirement (one of the most shocking in pro sports history) entirely on his shoulders.  But I think Irsay was cavalier in his handling of AL and should regret a number of things:

 

- Publicly calling out "the space between his ears," effectively questioning out loud the mental toughness of a man who played football with a lacerated kidney

- Publicly talking about Luck's most recent rehab and inviting the world to ponder what "small little bone" was stopping AL from playing

- Assuring everyone (unlike his wise GM) that AL would be back for 2017

 

Every single writer covering the Colts has talked about how intensely private AL is, but Irsay couldn't stop himself from airing these things out publicly.  I imagine this added to the mental strain which frustrated Luck.

 

I also think Irsay should regret hiring a defensive HC rather than a QB whisperer/guru who focused on raising a young QB, instead saddling him with having to endure learning a new system practically every year from Arians/Hamilton/Chud.

 

He should regret standing idly by while Arians called seven step drop after seven stop drop behind a pathetic offensive line.   He should regret sticking with a GM who once bragged that you didn't need to draft centers and (other than taking Kelly) couldn't draft or OLs to save his life.  

 

When you are gifted a Ferrari, you do everything you can to make sure it is well maintained.  IMO, Irsay didn't do that.  Many young QBs have been ruined by getting annihilated in their first couple years (David Carr for example) but it didn't seem to stop Luck, but clearly it wore him down.  Andrew was raised in the NFL and by all accounts loved football as much as anyone, but what he went through as a Colts QB caused him to walk away from it all.  Irsay needs to reflect on that.  I imagine he will, and how a man who (incredibly) was able to draft Elway, Manning, and Luck sadly ended up with only one ring.

 

This was incredibly well said. 

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6 hours ago, il vecchio said:

Picking a GM is like picking a player or a coach.  They don't all work out.

 

And if Irsay is responsible for how Grigs panned out, then he's also responsible for how Ballard has.

Ya but when it was clear he sucked he needed to pull the trigger and fire him and pagano but instead he did the opposite and extended them which was stupid to this day.

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2 hours ago, The Peytonator said:

Grigson tried to protect Luck. He drafted linemen early; Kelly, Mewhort, Thornton, Holmes, and he brought them in through free agency; Cherilus, Satele. He just brought in the wrong ones because he wasn’t a good GM. Plus the offensive scheme wasn’t conducive to protecting the franchise. It is not on Irsay that Luck wasn’t protected. 

 

Once it became obvious that Grigson wasn’t doing the job, Irsay got rid of him. I think Luck was destined for an early retirement anyway. There were rumors that his love for the game wasn’t all there for the last few years, we were all just living in denial....and for good reason. His early retirement blindsided everyone, including the people at the top. 

Maybe if they built this team the right way the first time he would still love and enjoy playing when you go out there and get killed every season until last year im not surprised he don't want it anymore.

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It's not Irsay fault for Luck to all of the sudden take off running down the field, and try to run over the defense, and end up getting hurt. Manning and Brady learned this quick in their career, and also they knew they couldn't run worth crap. That is why when the pocket started to collapse,  and there was no other option, Manning basically gave himself up, and fell to the ground. I actually believe the 2 key hits between Manning and Luck came when they decided to take off running.  Colts vs. Redskins was one. On a rare opportunity, Manning decided to take off running, and got hit by multiple defenders, was bent over like a pretzel, and caused his neck injury, thus ending his time with the Colts. 2nd was with Luck vs Manning. Late in the game, Luck took off running, and got hit by 2 defenders, 1 in the front, and 1 in the back, causing his torn shouulder. So, basically you can't blame the owner for these hits.

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5 minutes ago, aavmarine said:

It's not Irsay fault for Luck to all of the sudden take off running down the field, and try to run over the defense, and end up getting hurt. Manning and Brady learned this quick in their career, and also they knew they couldn't run worth crap. That is why when the pocket started to collapse,  and there was no other option, Manning basically gave himself up, and fell to the ground. I actually believe the 2 key hits between Manning and Luck came when they decided to take off running.  Colts vs. Redskins was one. On a rare opportunity, Manning decided to take off running, and got hit by multiple defenders, was bent over like a pretzel, and caused his neck injury, thus ending his time with the Colts. 2nd was with Luck vs Manning. Late in the game, Luck took off running, and got hit by 2 defenders, 1 in the front, and 1 in the back, causing his torn shouulder. So, basically you can't blame the owner for these hits.

 

I agree with this as well. I've always maintained that Irsay, grigson, Pagano and luck all shoulder some of the blame for the multitude of injuries he endured. 

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6 hours ago, VaAllDay757 said:

He hired grigs for whatever reason not knowing he was not cut for the GM job....he never made it clear to protect luck no matter what then they drafted wrong so wrong it never made sense....you can say what you want but this goes to show that they lied about the 2017 season when luck would be "ready" now he's retiring smh

Go away please

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33 minutes ago, aavmarine said:

It's not Irsay fault for Luck to all of the sudden take off running down the field, and try to run over the defense, and end up getting hurt. Manning and Brady learned this quick in their career, and also they knew they couldn't run worth crap. That is why when the pocket started to collapse,  and there was no other option, Manning basically gave himself up, and fell to the ground. I actually believe the 2 key hits between Manning and Luck came when they decided to take off running.  Colts vs. Redskins was one. On a rare opportunity, Manning decided to take off running, and got hit by multiple defenders, was bent over like a pretzel, and caused his neck injury, thus ending his time with the Colts. 2nd was with Luck vs Manning. Late in the game, Luck took off running, and got hit by 2 defenders, 1 in the front, and 1 in the back, causing his torn shouulder. So, basically you can't blame the owner for these hits.

I dont remember Manning running, i remember him in the pocket and getting rushed by 2 or 3 guys that bent him back and almost took his helmet off.

Manning was good for a bootleg here and there but thats about it.

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I don't think you can blame Irsay for hiring Grigson and Pagano but you can blame him for not parting ways with them earlier.

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There has always been a question as to how long Luck would play the game.  He is smart, and has other interests.  There were questions around how much he enjoyed the game, how important  it was to him to win a made-up championship of a made-up world.

 

His personality is what is causing the retirement. 

 

And who knows. CB said that the ankle injury is a mystery, that it was cumulative.

 

To me, when I hear the word "cumulative", I think arthritic.  I thought that a few weeks ago immediately when Ballard said that.

 

Arthritic joints in athletes causes constant discomfort that is unfixable and only gets worse with more wear and tear.  It never gets better.

 

Noboby has used the word arthritic to describe the ankle so that is pure speculation.

 

And here people are complaining about Irsay, RG, and CP and the shoulder injury.

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I’m absolutely flabbergasted by the Luck retirement. The comparisons others have made to Bert Jones career are spot on. Two incredibly gifted quarterbacks who would never get to the Unitas/ Manning level due to injury. 

The only other thing that crossed my mind was how much pressure Irsay put on Luck with the multiple super bowl declarations, or his need to validate letting Manning walk and win a Super Bowl in Denver. 

I’m not criticizing the Manning decision as there were injury and salary cap decisions , plus the chance to draft a stud QB as #1. I’m just wondering if the weight of Irsay’s expectations were a factor in the Luck retirement. 

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1 hour ago, The Old Crow said:

I’m absolutely flabbergasted by the Luck retirement. The comparisons others have made to Bert Jones career are spot on. Two incredibly gifted quarterbacks who would never get to the Unitas/ Manning level due to injury. 

The only other thing that crossed my mind was how much pressure Irsay put on Luck with the multiple super bowl declarations, or his need to validate letting Manning walk and win a Super Bowl in Denver. 

I’m not criticizing the Manning decision as there were injury and salary cap decisions , plus the chance to draft a stud QB as #1. I’m just wondering if the weight of Irsay’s expectations were a factor in the Luck retirement. 

Hahaha. Manning did not "win" that Super Bowl. He was a straphanger on a defensive juggernaut, he sucked.

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13 hours ago, Turftoe said:

The OL was neglected for many seasons.

 

This just isn't true. Every year they spent resources on the OL. The problems never got fixed and the players they signed and drafted mostly didn't work but it wasn't neglect.

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10 hours ago, The Peytonator said:

Grigson tried to protect Luck. He drafted linemen early; Kelly, Mewhort, Thornton, Holmes, and he brought them in through free agency; Cherilus, Satele. He just brought in the wrong ones because he wasn’t a good GM. Plus the offensive scheme wasn’t conducive to protecting the franchise. It is not on Irsay that Luck wasn’t protected. 

 

Once it became obvious that Grigson wasn’t doing the job, Irsay got rid of him. I think Luck was destined for an early retirement anyway. There were rumors that his love for the game wasn’t all there for the last few years, we were all just living in denial....and for good reason. His early retirement blindsided everyone, including the people at the top. 

Hard to believe his year returning from injury he follows only Mahomes in TDS and gets into the playoffs with a hurt TY and lackluster receiving corp but he didn't have a love for the game...it just seems unreal

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Is Irsay free of blame? 

 

Absolutely not. 

 

Is he mostly to blame?

 

Absolutely not. 

 

He let the Chuck Pagano/ryan grigson farce go on for far too long. That kept the hits coming and the damage accumulating. 

 

But it was grigson making the signings that didn’t pan out, not being able to scout better players, and Pagano who wouldn’t make changes to the offense to get throws out quicker, and get the ball out before those hits came. Irsay put people into position to do their jobs. That is where his blame end start. 

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38 minutes ago, Roger said:

Hahaha. Manning did not "win" that Super Bowl. He was a straphanger on a defensive juggernaut, he sucked.

i'll still never forget his run for a first down against the patriots.  that was hilarious 

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15 hours ago, VaAllDay757 said:

I'm talking about all the past injuries....with luck missing the whole 2017 season it brought him to reality where he probably felt peaceful and not have to worry about getting hurt if they made sure protecting luck was the first priority back then we wouldn't be having the conversation

 

His problem IS/WAS he sucked at timing passes so he held onto the ball for deeper throws and he ran way to much. THE END.

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10 hours ago, Austinctx said:

Hey guys new to the forum..

 

Just wanted to ask a question. Any one else completely heart broken? I'm confused, *, but mainly heart broken. I'm a 26yr man with 3 kids. But I've cried several times tonight. I feel like this day was  a terrible dream

This is not real.

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1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

His problem IS/WAS he sucked at timing passes so he held onto the ball for deeper throws and he ran way to much. THE END.

The o-line was still trash

9 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

Go away please

No you get out if you don't like it

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13 hours ago, The Peytonator said:

Grigson tried to protect Luck. He drafted linemen early; Kelly, Mewhort, Thornton, Holmes, and he brought them in through free agency; Cherilus, Satele. He just brought in the wrong ones because he wasn’t a good GM. Plus the offensive scheme wasn’t conducive to protecting the franchise. It is not on Irsay that Luck wasn’t protected. 

 

Once it became obvious that Grigson wasn’t doing the job, Irsay got rid of him. I think Luck was destined for an early retirement anyway. There were rumors that his love for the game wasn’t all there for the last few years, we were all just living in denial....and for good reason. His early retirement blindsided everyone, including the people at the top. 

He only drafted 3 o-line players in all those drafts he was in.....he really didn't try and as far as those free agents they trash and old and he still signed them to big contracts

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10 hours ago, NM_Colts said:

Why should anyone have to tell a GM that his franchise QB needs to be protected? Hell, my Chihuahua even knows that. Luck took a beating for years and IMO that's on Grigson.

It's their job to straighten them out when things aren't going well plain and simple that's in every sport if the GM isn't doing something right year after year then the owner will step in and light that fire to let them know to tighten up

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21 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

He only drafted 3 o-line players in all those drafts he was in.....he really didn't try and as far as those free agents they trash and old and he still signed them to big contracts

 

 

Dude I just named four and that was off the top of my head. There was also Clark, Haeg, Blythe, and some other seventh rounders. It wasn’t for lack of trying or putting resources into pass protection that Luck was so beat up. Grigson was just bad at his job and it took a few years to realize this.

 

It wasn’t as readily apparent either as it is in hindsight. Most of the board, me included really liked what he was doing the first three years when we were making the playoffs and got to the conference championship game. The dude won GM of the year in his first year. I don’t want to sound like a Grigson apologist because I don’t like the guy, but Irsay is largely blameless in all of this. I think Luck was destined for an early retirement. His love for the game waned. Being in constant rehab didn’t help but playing this sport professionally means taking a constant beating, and for him the constant beatings weren’t worth the reward. I hold no ill will towards him over this, although I wish the timing were a little better. 

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Irsay, Grigson and Pagano are not to blame. Grigson and Pagano were horrible yes, but most of Andrew's major injuries were self inflicted.

 

Not getting down against Denver and lacerating his kidney.

 

Jacked his shoulder up snowboarding

 

This injury, not sure of severity, but seems to be done in non football activities.

 

I get it, everyone wants to blame someone. It just is what it is.

 

Fun loving guy lost his passion for the game. Really sad to see.

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1 hour ago, The Peytonator said:

 

 

Dude I just named four and that was off the top of my head. There was also Clark, Haeg, Blythe, and some other seventh rounders. It wasn’t for lack of trying or putting resources into pass protection that Luck was so beat up. Grigson was just bad at his job and it took a few years to realize this.

 

It wasn’t as readily apparent either as it is in hindsight. Most of the board, me included really liked what he was doing the first three years when we were making the playoffs and got to the conference championship game. The dude won GM of the year in his first year. I don’t want to sound like a Grigson apologist because I don’t like the guy, but Irsay is largely blameless in all of this. I think Luck was destined for an early retirement. His love for the game waned. Being in constant rehab didn’t help but playing this sport professionally means taking a constant beating, and for him the constant beatings weren’t worth the reward. I hold no ill will towards him over this, although I wish the timing were a little better. 

Blythe don't count because he never started expect one game....mewhort was decent but his knees gave up on him and kelly was the only one he got right with the o-line and that's because irsay might a light threat during that off season......if you think irsay isn't to blame at all that's your opinion but the signs are there clear as day

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