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Any idea on cap effects of this?

WoolMagnet

By WoolMagnet,
in Colts Football

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ReMeDy

ReMeDy 2,866

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How does a player retiring though count as $25 million in dead money? If he was injured, okay, I get it, but he literally isn't even on injured reserve, or anything. He is purged from our roster's existence. He retired. Give us 100% of our money back.

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a06cc

a06cc 781

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Just now, ReMeDy said:

How does a player retiring though count as $25 million in dead money? If he was injured, okay, I get it, but he literally isn't even on injured reserve, or anything. He is purged from our roster's existence. He retired. Give us 100% of our money back.

No he is guaranteed that money. I’m okay with the cap hit.

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ReMeDy

ReMeDy 2,866

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5 minutes ago, a06cc said:

No he is guaranteed that money. I’m okay with the cap hit.

 

Sounds to me like an NFL athlete is better off waiting on a new contract, getting guaranteed money, then retiring immediately after.

 

Perhaps the NFL should eliminate guaranteed money then, because this is a glaring thing Luck just exploited. He took $25 million and ran with it. Never mind the fact it was him who injured himself during that careless snowboarding incident, then goes on to blame injuries for retiring.

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dw49

dw49 3,294

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The Colts can ask for arbitration to recover some of the signing bonus money. It's called the "Barry Sanders rule."

 

 

Okay, there are actually two "buts" for retirements. When a player retires, the team has the option to pursue the return of a portion of the signing bonus equal to the unplayed portions of the contract, and that money is no longer counted against the salary cap. This is typically done through an arbitrator. This is known as the "Barry Sanders Rule" because this is exactly how the situation played out in his case, as he was required to pay back a portion of his bonus. The difference between now and then is there was no precedent when Sanders played; now, it's explicitly written into the CBA to allow for this arbitration.

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TheMarine

TheMarine 623

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Luck, had he played out this contract and his next before retired, would have likely made 200+ million in his next contract. He has 2 years left on his current deal worth about 58mil.

 

Luck is 28mil against the cap this year, idk about next. The Colts could attempt to recupe 12mil in signing bonus from Luck, but idk that they would. Hope they dont, after what Grigs did to Luck

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J@son

J@son 7,444

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31 minutes ago, ReMeDy said:

 took $25 million and ran with it. Never mind the fact it was him who injured himself during that careless snowboarding incident, then goes on to blame injuries for retiring.

 

No he did not take the money and ran... He already had it. 

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csmopar

csmopar 10,264

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32 minutes ago, boo2202 said:

So are we off the books for his cap after this year? I’m no cap guru, would be nice to know. 

 

7 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

I would hope we are off the books for his contract after this season. And they need to find a franchise QB in next year's draft. (Insert Jake Fromm). No way should Ballard pay Brissett big money to stay longterm. 

We’re on the hook for 24 million and change this season, 6.4 million next season per ESPN.  

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Chloe6124

Chloe6124 7,926

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14 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

I would hope we are off the books for his contract after this season. And they need to find a franchise QB in next year's draft. (Insert Jake Fromm). No way should Ballard pay Brissett big money to stay longterm. 

Don’t you think we should see how he plays this year before writing him off. He has a ton of talent around him. Did you see Cain tonight.

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Superman

Superman 37,000

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17 minutes ago, csmopar said:

 

We’re on the hook for 24 million and change this season, 6.4 million next season per ESPN.  

 

Luck's contract guaranteed a roster bonus of $12m in March of 2019. I don't know, but I would expect that the Colts would ask for that to be returned. It's for making the 2019 roster, which he will not. 

 

His salary of $9.125m would have guaranteed on Tuesday of Week 1. It's not going to be paid. 

 

I don't expect them to pursue the repayment of any of his signing bonus.

 

So his 2019 cap hit could be as high as $18.4m, or as low as $6.4m, depending on how they handle that roster bonus. 

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csmopar

csmopar 10,264

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6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Luck's contract guaranteed a roster bonus of $12m in March of 2019. I don't know, but I would expect that the Colts would ask for that to be returned. It's for making the 2019 roster, which he will not. 

 

His salary of $9.125m would have guaranteed on Tuesday of Week 1. It's not going to be paid. 

 

I don't expect them to pursue the repayment of any of his signing bonus.

 

So his 2019 cap hit could be as high as $18.4m, or as low as $6.4m, depending on how they handle that roster bonus. 

Thanks. Either way, he’s still getting gonna get paid.

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Superman

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52 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Thanks. Either way, he’s still getting gonna get paid.

 

Depends. 

 

The $6.4m was paid as a signing bonus in 2016. The first part of the $12m roster bonus was paid in March, the second half is/was due in September. If the Colts push back on paying that roster bonus -- and from a principle standpoint, it makes sense; he won't be on the roster -- then it's possible that they don't pay him another dollar. It's even possible that he returns the $6m that was paid in March. 

 

Per the CBA, the Colts could require that he return the unamortized portion of the signing bonus, which is $12.8m total. I doubt they take that approach. And I don't have a strong leaning on whether they make an issue of the already paid roster bonus. I do think it's unlikely that they pay the remaining $6m due in September. 

 

It will likely take some time for all of that to be sorted out. 

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Mr. Irrelevant

Mr. Irrelevant 1,102

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Depends. 

 

The $6.4m was paid as a signing bonus in 2016. The first part of the $12m roster bonus was paid in March, the second half is/was due in September. If the Colts push back on paying that roster bonus -- and from a principle standpoint, it makes sense; he won't be on the roster -- then it's possible that they don't pay him another dollar. It's even possible that he returns the $6m that was paid in March. 

 

Per the CBA, the Colts could require that he return the unamortized portion of the signing bonus, which is $12.8m total. I doubt they take that approach. And I don't have a strong leaning on whether they make an issue of the already paid roster bonus. I do think it's unlikely that they pay the remaining $6m due in September. 

 

It will likely take some time for all of that to be sorted out. 

 

How about 2020? Any cap hit next year? 

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ColtsBlueFL

ColtsBlueFL 7,517

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9 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

How much are we hurt?  How much is still counted?  How much gets freed up?

 

9 hours ago, KB said:

$25 million in dead money apparently.

 

9 hours ago, ReMeDy said:

How does a player retiring though count as $25 million in dead money? If he was injured, okay, I get it, but he literally isn't even on injured reserve, or anything. He is purged from our roster's existence. He retired. Give us 100% of our money back.

 

Colts still have to pay the salary cap piper on guaranteed money paid to Luck on his extension.

 

It is his signing bonus amortized over the next 2 years (6,400.00 each year) plus a 12 million roster bonus for 2019. Not sure the Colts will try to recover any or all of that. (I tend to think they won't)

 

Thus it is a 18,4 mil dead cap this year, 6,4 mil next.  Total over 2 years is 24,800 million.

 

No salary or other money is involved. Just those pushed out bookkeeping payments.

 

 

EDIT:  should have read further for Superman's response.  Oh well.

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DougDew

DougDew 4,069

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Beyond what we are actually paying in terms of dollars, the question for me is will there be MORE cap hit than what has been previously budgeted in this year or next year?

 

An accelerator, unable to amortize, or some technicality that shoves more cap into this year or next year.

 

I suspect a retirement doesn't do that and, at worse, we will having the cap allocation we planned on having the next few years.  At best, some of it goes away.

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Jdubu

Jdubu 1,619

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7 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Don’t you think we should see how he plays this year before writing him off. He has a ton of talent around him. Did you see Cain tonight.

Agree, I’ve never been a huge fan of JB but he has talent in flashes and has a big arm so let’s see what he gives the team in real fire with all the toys now. He has been in the same system as luck has been under Reich so he should know everything about the program, even if he wasn’t as cerebral as Luck was, 2 years in the same system should be enough. Let’s hope he truly prepared all this time as a starter and knows this system well. 

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BProland85

BProland85 2,862

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7 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Plot twist.  Colts use all their cap space to go all in on Brady when his deal is up...

 

hey the last ex Pats legend we brought in here worked out well!

 

in all seriousness that would be an even bigger gut punch than this.

I have heard plenty of rumors that Brady wants out of NE after this season if he wants to continue playing. 

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WoolMagnet

WoolMagnet 4,950

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17 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

 

 

Colts still have to pay the salary cap piper on guaranteed money paid to Luck on his extension.

 

It is his signing bonus amortized over the next 2 years (6,400.00 each year) plus a 12 million roster bonus for 2019. Not sure the Colts will try to recover any or all of that. (I tend to think they won't)

 

Thus it is a 18,4 mil dead cap this year, 6,4 mil next.  Total over 2 years is 24,800 million.

 

No salary or other money is involved. Just those pushed out bookkeeping payments.

 

 

EDIT:  should have read further for Superman's response.  Oh well.

Thanks

big hit this year, then negligible.

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ColtsBlueFL

ColtsBlueFL 7,517

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5 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

Thanks

big hit this year, then negligible.

 

Yes, for now.  There's a chance Colts could ask for some/all of the bonus money back (taking it off the books), but I really doubt they do that.  Besides, it would seem like pouring salt into the cut made from the slinging of boos Andrew received.

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Finball

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6 hours ago, DougDew said:

Beyond what we are actually paying in terms of dollars, the question for me is will there be MORE cap hit than what has been previously budgeted in this year or next year?

 

An accelerator, unable to amortize, or some technicality that shoves more cap into this year or next year.

 

I suspect a retirement doesn't do that and, at worse, we will having the cap allocation we planned on having the next few years.  At best, some of it goes away.

 

Do you mena pre-Luck retirement? If yes, we will have lot more cap space. Not so much for this year but it's not like it matters. Next year a lot more.

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Superman

Superman 37,000

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7 hours ago, pacolts56 said:

So if accurate....what does this mean, cap-wise? @Superman ?

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001044298/article/colts-not-recouping-andrew-lucks-168m-in-bonuses

 

 

 

Already said, but just to repeat:

 

He will count $18.4m against the the 2019 cap, and $6.4m against the 2020 cap. Nothing after that. 

 

I get why they're not making an issue of the roster bonus. I don't like the precedent that it sets, but this is a rare situation. And when superstars retire and get asked to pay back bonus money, it usually goes poorly (like Calvin Johnson). So clean break, and it keeps good relations between the team and the player moving forward. 

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ReMeDy

ReMeDy 2,866

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1 minute ago, Superman said:

it keeps good relations between the team and the player moving forward. 

 

Plus there is the rare possibility Luck changes his mind several years from now and unretires once he's 100% healthy, or decides to coach in some capacity. Luck did say Indy was his home, unless he changes his mind. We own his contract rights, so it'd be nice to leave open the possibility.

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Superman

Superman 37,000

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1 minute ago, ReMeDy said:

 

Plus there is the rare possibility Luck changes his mind several years from now and unretires once he's 100% healthy, or decides to coach in some capacity. Luck did say Indy was his home, unless he changes his mind. We own his contract rights, so it'd be nice to leave open the possibility.

 

Irsay is obviously holding on to that hope. As a fan, I'm moving on. The Andrew Luck chapter is written and done. 

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