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ColtStrong2013

Zeke to the Colts rumors starting...

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I don't see it.  

 

Ballard isn't one to make big moves.  And I don't think he's going to want to pay an RB big money either.  

 

People like to start these rumors simply because we have all sorts of cap space to pay guys who are looking for big extensions that their clubs arn't giving to them.  But Ballard doesn't like to spend big money on outside players.   

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23 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

I was over this whole rumor v. speculation thing like yesterday afternoon... 

 

K.  I was just explaining the difference. 

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1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Except that’s exactly what you did when you characterised an entire fan base in one foul swoop. Plenty of fans on here have advocated for bigger name FAs at times. 

 

You’ve been out for every, and I mean every, FA going. It’s not much of a discussion when one side is pretty much shouting without listening to a view point that happens to not match your own.

Football 2019. Predictions? Go.

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Why in God's name would they go after Zeke when they have 3 picks in the first 2 rounds in 2020, and that RB class looks stronger than the 2018 class. D'Andre Swift, Travis Etienne, Jonathan Taylor, JK Dobbins, Cam Akers, Eno Benjamin, and Najee Harris...so why? Why would they do that, when they could have any of the above stud backs on a rookie deal for 4-5 years? Makes no sense. Honestly I'd rather have Swift, Etienne, or Taylor over Zeke. Not that they're better RBs (not yet anyways), but they're 100x cheaper, and Zeke is like 93 in running back years. They've pounded that dude into the ground, between the carries he got at OSU and now Dallas. #2020classwillbehistoric

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this doesnt sound like a Ballard move to me.  in the draft he has shown he likes to trade back, gather picks and take what falls to him.  in free agency he sits out the first few days and spends on second tier guys

 

i do think Ballard values running backs, and Reich wants more out of the running game too.  this just isnt the move we are going to make 

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20 hours ago, Myles said:

I agree that this wasn't really a "rumor", but it doesn't bother me much that the word was used.   I say we let it drop and just talk of the hypothetical move of Zeke coming to the Colts.

 

As it should be. No references to rumors on this one. Just some fun what if's... and kept hypothetical.

 

20 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

When does this talk become rumor? When someone that matters starts saying it will (or may :edit:) happen? Guess what? Those people are called journalists, and they don't comment on "rumors.

 

Exactly, and why is that?  Maybe there are some valid reasons an official Colts forum board would want to adhere to similar policies.

 

I personally call them speculation or hypothetical scenarios here, so that nobody reading them becomes confused and/or potentially propagates non verified rumors as real possibilities in the making without evidence {which can be taken that way at times by others, etc...}

 

We, the Admin and moderators, don't want to take the 'fun' out of anything, but we do want to remove ambiguities, reveal the unverified, and call things for what they are.

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3 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

this doesnt sound like a Ballard move to me.  in the draft he has shown he likes to trade back, gather picks and take what falls to him.  in free agency he sits out the first few days and spends on second tier guys

 

i do think Ballard values running backs, and Reich wants more out of the running game too.  this just isnt the move we are going to make 

 

It might not be. We don't know, because he hasn't pulled a big splash player through trade or FA yet. That doesn't mean he is opposed to it or he won't ever do it. I think he will at some point... maybe sooner than later. He's made it very clear that he likes "players." You can find players in the draft, but you have to develop them and we are currently doing that. You can find players in FA, but you have to spend to get them, and you have to be smart on the value placed on them. Zeke's value with a trade and sign is only going to cost picks in the draft as his monetary value on an open market is only going to increase over the next several cap increases. His contract extension now is much less than what it will be later... IMO, whoever would get him in a trade now, is going to get the much better deal than the Cowboys get if they wait and extend him next year for more money and after another year of punishment to his body. 

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4 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Exactly, and why is that?  Maybe there are some valid reasons an official Colts forum board would want to adhere to similar policies.

 

I personally call them speculation or hypothetical scenarios here, so that nobody reading them becomes confused and/or potentially propagates non verified rumors as real possibilities in the making without evidence {which can be taken that way at times by others, etc...}

 

We, the Admin and moderators, don't want to take the 'fun' out of anything, but we do want to remove ambiguities and reveal the unverified and call things for what they are.

 

Again, myself being the OP and several others, were far past the Speculation v. Rumor talk nearly 24 hours ago... We can all move on now. 

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Perhaps the best thing to do is just change the title to:

Zeke to the Colts speculation starting...

 

At least we can avoid another 3 pages of defining a word.

 

As for a Zeke trade.

I don't think it will happen.   I wouldn't be totally against it.  

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7 minutes ago, Myles said:

Perhaps the best thing to do is just change the title to:

Zeke to the Colts speculation starting...

 

At least we can avoid another 3 pages of defining a word.

 

As for a Zeke trade.

I don't think it will happen.   I wouldn't be totally against it.  

 

I don't know how to do that on mobile or else I would have yesterday... I rarely get on this forum via desktop. 

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3 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

I joined this “forum” to discuss football matters. Not to be critiqued by people who can’t talk about football and football matters/issues by demeaning or falsely characterizing people.

 

but if you want to talk about foozeball, I’m all for it. Go Canes!

 

While you are being snarky, I'll point out there is actually a "College Football and all other sports" forum section for this.  This area is for Colts football specifically.

 

45 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

Football 2019. Predictions? Go.

 

This calls for a New Thread, and properly placed in the NFL General forum.

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I've just had to clean up some baiting, personal spats, or non productive comments. Please take those to DM or email. Thanks.

 

OK, back on track to Zeke hypotheticals...

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I honestly wish there was a Rumor, What if, Speculation forum. 

 

We could call it, Football People Magazine.

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31 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

It might not be. We don't know, because he hasn't pulled a big splash player through trade or FA yet. That doesn't mean he is opposed to it or he won't ever do it. I think he will at some point... maybe sooner than later. He's made it very clear that he likes "players." You can find players in the draft, but you have to develop them and we are currently doing that. You can find players in FA, but you have to spend to get them, and you have to be smart on the value placed on them. Zeke's value with a trade and sign is only going to cost picks in the draft as his monetary value on an open market is only going to increase over the next several cap increases. His contract extension now is much less than what it will be later... IMO, whoever would get him in a trade now, is going to get the much better deal than the Cowboys get if they wait and extend him next year for more money and after another year of punishment to his body. 

i would not be against it, i would be surprised if it happens 

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5 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

Just one thing that's been rolling around in my head. A few posters have used Funchess as a comparison to say if we can pay  him $10 million we can certainly pay Zeke. 

 

Couple of things to bear in mind, we paid a premium for a 1 year deal, and will no doubt pay again if we want to retain him following a good season. It was a bad deal IMO, but it does provide some context to the number. 

 

Secondly you're talking WR to RB. Purely from a market point of view, WRs get paid more. To give an idea if Funchess was a RB he'd be the 4th best paid (Avrg/Year) and is only the 23rd WR. You can't compare number to number  like that without factoring that in somewhat. Also consider that a number of the top young RBs have been paid and set the market somewhat. There's a lot of WRs due soon who will no doubt reset the WR market (Jones, Allen, and to an extent Green possibly).

 

As someone who made that comp, I will respond.

 

WRs do get paid more. A big part of that is how the game has changed...but another reason was a lot of talented WRs entering the league while the RB market sort of dried up. I think this influx of WRs caused the WR market to reset back in 2015...when guys like Julio, Green, Dez, Hilton, DThomas got their 2nd deals. And deals have only gone up...and there is a trickle down effect for second and even third-tier WRs. This is a big reason I have been so adamant about drafting multiple WRs on day 2. I would be fine drafting one every year if it kept a steady flow of good cheap WRs on the team. 

 

But the RB position has had sort of a renaissance in recent years with several very talented RBs entering the league...and now the RB market has reset with Gurley, David Johnson...and Bell.

 

However, it is still lagging behind WRs. So my point regarding Funchess...is why pay a premium for a second-rate FA WR...when you can get a

top-tier (possibly elite) RB for not much more.  There is a bit of a market inefficiency...even with the recent deals.

 

Sure, the Funchess deal is one year...but it’s not like Ballard hasn’t shown an affinity for these type of one-year deals. So from a financial standpoint, it makes sense to pay a RB in place of some random annual pillow contract (be it Funchess or someone else)...because they are more of a sure thing...and can have a bigger impact.

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16 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

We value discussion here. However there are rules.

 

 

As long as it isn't transposed into 'real possibilities', because there is no shred of evidence presented here.   (no report from a reputable source, no quoting unnamed source by a reputable source, etc...) Just an idea in the wind that people are entertaining.

 

However, the thread should not evolve into a meaningless thread, which includes the perpetuation of unfounded or unsubstantiated rumors.  Remember those forum rules you agreed to when signing up?   Here's #6 from the full rules article- 

 

6. No “nonsense” posts, this includes rumors.

 

https://forums.colts.com/guidelines/

 

So lets keep speculation just that. At least until something, somehow, somewhere that might have a shred of a credible source at its roots becomes apparent.

Really?  You took that post seriously?  The smiling emoji didn't give you any indication at all?

 

Oh well, thanks for posting the rules.  I guess, according to the rules this thread will be deleted shortly.

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3 hours ago, IndyScribe said:

Why would Zeke complete the puzzle? When was the last time a team with a high paid RB won the SB? He'd improve the team, no doubt, but it's not worth paying him all that money.

 

Probably Lynch. But both ATL and LAR had high-paid RBs. And CAR had Stewart...who had a pretty large deal.

 

So you are talking about more than half of the past 6 Super Bowl teams. They certainly don't prevent a team from getting there.

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1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Really?  You took that post seriously?  The smiling emoji didn't give you any indication at all?

 

I was only just using yours to piggyback on a general message.

 

Quote

Oh well, thanks for posting the rules.  I guess, according to the rules this thread will be deleted shortly.

 

No, it's been defined as not rumor, but pure conjecture.  However, at one point I did seriously consider taking up the idea of consulting with Nadine and the other moderators about closing / locking it. Then there would have to be a new thread made about the speculation of all scenarios of what may happen to Elliott without respect to a Colts trade rumor.  But I cleaned up a few posts instead and let it progress.  Here we are. Still going, unless things take a turn for the worse.

 

And I'm not commenting on any further moderator considerations on this henceforth.

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1 hour ago, shastamasta said:

 

 

As someone who made that comp, I will respond.

 

WRs do get paid more. A big part of that is how the game has changed...but another reason was a lot of talented WRs entering the league while the RB market sort of dried up. I think this influx of WRs caused the WR market to reset back in 2015...when guys like Julio, Green, Dez, Hilton, DThomas got their 2nd deals. And deals have only gone up...and there is a trickle down effect for second and even third-tier WRs. This is a big reason I have been so adamant about drafting multiple WRs on day 2. I would be fine drafting one every year if it kept a steady flow of good cheap WRs on the team. 

 

But the RB position has had sort of a renaissance in recent years with several very talented RBs entering the league...and now the RB market has reset with Gurley, David Johnson...and Bell.

 

However, it is still lagging behind WRs. So my point regarding Funchess...is why pay a premium for a second-rate FA WR...when you can get a

top-tier (possibly elite) RB for not much more.  There is a bit of a market inefficiency...even with the recent deals.

 

Sure, the Funchess deal is one year...but it’s not like Ballard hasn’t shown an affinity for these type of one-year deals. So from a financial standpoint, it makes sense to pay a RB in place of some random annual pillow contract (be it Funchess or someone else)...because they are more of a sure thing...and can have a bigger impact.

 

Some very fair points made here, and I can certainly see the logic. I just feel you can replicate a fair amount of the production Zeke gives you via drafting well in future allowing you to invest elsewhere in positions that have more positional value. Neither approach is strictly right or wrong. 

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On 8/21/2019 at 11:05 AM, Rackeen305 said:

Were you one of the "Fans" who objected against picking up Khalil Mack when he was let go by the Raiders.

 

I would have liked to have him and he would be worth the contract, except he wasn't let go by the Raiders, he was traded to the Bears who gave up TWO 1st round picks for him, and I don't like trading 1st round picks away (especially for a RB, which might be what Jerry wants for Zeke).

 

Does that make me a "fan" instead of a fan?  I'm not sure what the quotations are for...  because of who the fan wants their team to draft/sign?  Even if I only wanted the Colts to acquire just Big 10 players, I don't understand how that would make me any less of a "fan"...  :dunno:

 

4 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

Not here for likes, rather football facts and knowledge.

 

Kind of a weird resource for facts and knowledge when most of the content is just opinions...  haha  And ironically, @Superman is probably the best source of facts and knowledge compared to other members.  :hat:

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5 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I would have liked to have him and he would be worth the contract, except he wasn't let go by the Raiders, he was traded to the Bears who gave up TWO 1st round picks for him, and I don't like trading 1st round picks away (especially for a RB, which might be what Jerry wants for Zeke).

 

Does that make me a "fan" instead of a fan?  I'm not sure what the quotations are for...  because of who the fan wants their team to draft/sign?  Even if I only wanted the Colts to acquire just Big 10 players, I don't understand how that would make me any less of a "fan"...  :dunno:

 

 

Kind of a weird resource for facts and knowledge when most of the content is just opinions...  haha  And ironically, @Superman is probably the best source of facts and knowledge compared to other members.  :hat:

Ok. Whatever you say. I see many folks can’t keep it to football so. (Kanye shrugg)

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2 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

If it would happen now, and structured properly, it would never affect signing those guys to longterm contracts... 

 

I don't think the effect would be non-zero...however...they have some flexibility right now. 

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23 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

I see many folks can’t keep it to football so.

 

Well, you did take a cheap-shot at Colts "Fans".


What did you expect would happen?  haha

 

Don't get it twisted, the fans want Zekes' talent (or any elite talent for that matter, whether it's Khalil Mack or Antonio Brown), they just don't want to sell the farm for it, and definitely don't want the baggage that comes with it.  :thmup:

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50 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Some very fair points made here, and I can certainly see the logic. I just feel you can replicate a fair amount of the production Zeke gives you via drafting well in future allowing you to invest elsewhere in positions that have more positional value. Neither approach is strictly right or wrong. 

 

I don't disagree. There are different ways you can build a roster...and Ballard has done a tremendous job opening up the flexibility to add to the roster in different ways.

 

To your point about cheaper production, I have also long thought that Day Two was also a sweet spot for good RBs. I really wanted Kamara and would have been fine with a few other guys that have been drafted in that range in recent years.

 

But I do feel that guys like Zeke, Gurley and Barkley are special players and typically not available to playoff teams...barring a disastrous season. So there are some guys you can make an exception for. You can just see how much impact they have.

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13 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Well, you did take a cheap-shot at Colts "Fans".


What did you expect would happen?  haha

 

Don't get it twisted, the fans want Zekes' talent (or any elite talent for that matter, whether it's Khalil Mack or Antonio Brown), they just don't want to sell the farm for it, and definitely don't want the baggage that comes with it.  :thmup:

And ITS THE NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS AS SUPERBOWL CHAMPS AGAIN! maybe next year Indy maybe next year smh.

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6 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

And ITS THE NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS AS SUPERBOWL CHAMPS AGAIN! maybe next year Indy maybe next year smh.

 

giphy.gif

 

What does that have to do with this discussion?

 

I haven't heard any Zeke/Pats talk... have the Pats been linked to any other elite Free Agents or disgruntled players?   :scratch:

 

Cuz I think they're kind of the antithesis of the point you're trying to make...

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3 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

And ITS THE NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS AS SUPERBOWL CHAMPS AGAIN! maybe next year Indy maybe next year smh.

 

Not sure if shouting or echo from under the bridge....

 

To be clear, are. you saying that a team can’t win a Super Bowl without signing top dollar FAs or making exuberant trades? Because throwing the Pats out there doesn’t support your argument really.. they seem do well out of buying cheap and not resigning guys as soon as there is a whiff of decline. 

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10 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

I don't disagree. There are different ways you can build a roster...and Ballard has done a tremendous job opening up the flexibility to add to the roster in different ways.

 

To your point about cheaper production, I have also long thought that Day Two was also a sweet spot for good RBs. I really wanted Kamara and would have been fine with a few other guys that have been drafted in that range in recent years.

 

But I do feel that guys like Zeke, Gurley and Barkley are special players and typically not available to playoff teams...barring a disastrous season. So there are some guys you can make an exception for. You can just see how much impact they have.

 

I guess that’s the rub. Barkley, even on limited showing seems to back up the hype. So yes I’d be more inclined to go get him, pre-knee Gurley too. Elliot.., not so much, but that’s just my personal opinion on the player. 

 

I just feel there’s inherently more risk with wear and tear at the RB position vs say a WR that makes me loathe to invest long term big cap spending into one.

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Just now, SteelCityColt said:

 

I guess that’s the rub. Barkley, even on limited showing seems to back up the hype. So yes I’d be more inclined to go get him, pre-knee Gurley too. Elliot.., not so much, but that’s just my personal opinion on the player. 

 

I just feel there’s inherently more risk with wear and tear at the RB position vs say a WR that makes me loathe to invest long term big cap spending into one.

 

Yeah...I wouldn't invest in Gurley now...but that level of talent.

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3 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Not sure if shouting or echo from under the bridge....

 

To be clear, are. you saying that a team can’t win a Super Bowl without signing top dollar FAs or making exuberant trades? Because throwing the Pats out there doesn’t support your argument really.. they seem do well out of buying cheap and not resigning guys as soon as there is a whiff of decline. 

A better example would be the Florida Marlins or Cleveland Cavs

 

     One of the top NE WRs was a NCAA QB

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16 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Not sure if shouting or echo from under the bridge....

 

To be clear, are. you saying that a team can’t win a Super Bowl without signing top dollar FAs or making exuberant trades? Because throwing the Pats out there doesn’t support your argument really.. they seem do well out of buying cheap and not resigning guys as soon as there is a whiff of decline. 

Nope, its the choir boy teams that earn the soft title that the Colts have had for decades.

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1 minute ago, Rackeen305 said:

Nope, its the choir boy teams that earn the soft title that the Colts have had for decades.

wrong john c mcginley GIF

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22 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

Describe the Colts in 1 word. come on now. cut it out.

 

Wait, so if you had to describe the Colts in one word, it would be "soft"?

 

And you're gonna try to throw shade at the "fanhood" of other Colts fans...  Wow.

 

I'd love to see you call Big Q or the Maniac "soft" to their face.  Better yet, why don't you suit up and go see how "soft" they are on the field.:funny:

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This idea reminds me of  when we had rosey potts and a decent backfield.  no true gamebreakers but solid rbs.  I thought that at the time anyway and didn't think we needed the draft pick of faulk but then when faulk was added it really changed the rb dynamic in a good way. 

 

I think getting zeke would be a similar upgrade.  

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New poster here. So I became a Colts fan recently because of Mack (alma mater). I watched every game last year and even went to the Jags game in Jax (ugh).

 

I have been a lurker here and it seems like he is very underappreciated on this board. Is this mentality for the colts fan base overall?

 

Btw it seems like a lot of you guys are forgetting when Mack and Elliott went head to head...

 

 

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9 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Of course fans were hopeful when the Colts acquired T Richardson.  Nothing wrong with that.  But he only played one season with the Browns.  Zeke's resume is far superior to that of Richardson's.  Multiple years of success.  Trying to infer that acquiring Zeke would result in the same outcome makes no sense to me. 

 

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate it. My approach to building a team is to draft well, develop players and retain them. I don't like to sign or trade for other teams' star players, especially running backs. JMO :)

 

What would you like to give up for Zeke? If you're willing to give up a high draft pick, why not just draft a top RB? Many fans don't seem to want to use draft capital on RB in the draft. Why give up draft picks for a RB with wear and tear when you could have drafted someone out of college?

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