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ColtStrong2013

Zeke to the Colts rumors starting...

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2 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

Object or not, the only reason I titled this with the word "rumor," that you all are so hung up about (for wharever reason, on a forum board that is filled with this type of discussion) is because the article was literally titled "NFL Trade Rumor..." 

 

Where I come from (Indiana), this is quite the contrary... 

 

I know the article you linked to used that word.  The author of that is the one who screwed this up.  The TheBigLead.com story they linked to quite clearly avoided using that term.  I'm not blaming you at all.

 

As to the last part, I get where you're coming from.  Lots and lots of people who have no say in the matter will spread rumors.  But, typically, they are referencing something being done or discussed by people who do have a say in the matter.

 

In other words, if my next door neighbor Charlie was said to be talking about Zeke coming to the Colts, that would be of no interest to anybody.  If Jim Irsay was said to be talking about it, that's a different thing altogether.  What Charlie says or thinks doesn't matter.  What Irsay says or thinks does.

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3 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

When does this talk become rumor? When someone that matters starts saying it will happen? Guess what? Those people are called journalists, and they don't comment on "rumors."  Does Brad Wells on twitter count as someone who matters? Just curious.

 

Since that article was posted this morning, there are nearly a dozen with this "hypothetical" across the web. For the same reason that this topic garnished so much commentary here... it kind of makes sense and is intriguing. 

 

The people who matter are the people sitting in the room when personnel moves are being discussed.  I seriously doubt that Brad Wells is sitting in that room.

 

He may be a conduit for information from people who are sitting in that room.  But, even then, it's hardly unheard of for a team to intentionally put out misinformation -- knowing full well that reporters and such will breathlessly pass on something they want passed on.

 

Something like this would only become a rumor when and if somebody who ostensibly has reliable sources inside the FO says that the FO is considering it.  Until then, it's just one guy's hypothetical -- and a guy who, like the rest of us here, goes on the "does not matter" list.

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Seems we are nitpicking the definition of a word a bit.   I agree that this wasn't really a "rumor", but it doesn't bother me much that the word was used.   I say we let it drop and just talk of the hypothetical move of Zeke coming to the Colts.  Assuming Luck will be healthy, the offense would be unstoppable.   Hilton, Zeke, Funchess, Ebron, Doyle, Campbell and others along with that O-line.   Wow!

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I long for the days where Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and other social media sites weren't received as "TRUTH"....smh.

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4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

There's a key paragraph in that article (which, overall, I found to be confusing, not clarifying, but that's just me). 

 

 

That's my understanding. He can sit out until Week 10, and it doesn't affect his FA status.

 

And I think the reason it doesn't matter in Zeke's case is because the Cowboys have already exercised the fifth year option for 2020, which is effectively guaranteed. If they were to rescind that option, they would not hold RFA rights over him, as long as he accrues a season in 2019. (This is how Aaron Donald's situation played out; Zeke is still a year away from where Donald was when he got his new contract.)

 

There would be a different calculus for a player not drafted in the first round, because then there's no fifth year option. But I still believe that as long as said player reports before Week 10, he would accrue a season and not be a RFA after Year 4.

 

Yes, but this is the confusing part to me-

 

So as long as Elliott reports by Week 10, his fourth year in the NFL counts in 2019, his fifth-year option stays in 2020 and he will be a UFA in 2021. He will have to report by the accrued-season date in 2020 (provided no long-term deal is done by then) or he will risk being a restricted free agent in 2021, with the club still able to place the more expensive but more secure franchise tag on him that year.

 

Is that the 30 days before the 2020 season begins, or before game 10 in 2020?

 

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10 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Melvin Gordon needs someone close to him to give a reality check, and fast :lol:

 

Gordon's best friend is Vikings CB Trae Waynes. Trae needs to talk some sense into his childhood friend.

 

As for Zeke, were fans this hopeful several years ago when the Colts acquired T Richardson? I'm not a fan of Zeke. His football skills are great but his judgment off the field is poor. The Colts seem to stay away from guys with character issues like Elliott. 

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4 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

If that is the new criteria, then this board is going to become very silent. :)

 

We value discussion here. However there are rules.

 

4 hours ago, Myles said:

I agree, but it is fun to talk about.  

I think the 0% chance comment (by whoever said it) was just as silly as saying this is a rumor.   It's not 0%.   Zeke is holding out.   The owner is kind of talking bad about him, so the relationship is getting sour.   So I think there may be something like a 10% chance he gets traded.   I don't think he will.   The Colts are one of the few teams in a good cap situation, so maybe the chance is closer to 3% that he would be traded to the Colts.

 

As long as it isn't transposed into 'real possibilities', because there is no shred of evidence presented here.   (no report from a reputable source, no quoting unnamed source by a reputable source, etc...) Just an idea in the wind that people are entertaining.

 

However, the thread should not evolve into a meaningless thread, which includes the perpetuation of unfounded or unsubstantiated rumors.  Remember those forum rules you agreed to when signing up?   Here's #6 from the full rules article- 

 

6. No “nonsense” posts, this includes rumors.

 

https://forums.colts.com/guidelines/

 

So lets keep speculation just that. At least until something, somehow, somewhere that might have a shred of a credible source at its roots becomes apparent.

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Honestly  I was thinking  what if Zeke or gordon were on the colts, but realistically  can't  see Ballard  making the trade. Grigson probably  would.

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Not Ballard’s MO. I’m fine with Zeke and think his “character issues” are blown way out of proportion by the media, but Ballard may not be. I’d say Ballard would take a RB in the 1st round of the 2020 draft before he spent both MONEY and HIGH DRAFT PICKS on Elliot.

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So here we are again, bunches of cap money, hoping our draft picks are as good as last year, but sweating our QB issue.  

 

How many draft picks are we gonna horde?

 

How much cap space are we gonna bank?

 

I realize this deal with Zeke might be just a rumor and forum fodder, but if we have a chance to bring him in, I say yes.  As I, and many other members have said many times, we have a QB that can win a super bowl, but so far we have wasted the opportunity because we lack that 1 player that completes the puzzle.  

 

Andrew has suffered more pain playing on our team then any other Colt's player that I can recall,  I say again, it's time to loosen the purse strings and sign some proven talent to give him a fighting chance.

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

If it were an option to pay Zeke $13.5m for one year and not give up draft picks for the right to do so, I'd be first in line. That would be the equivalent of the Funchess signing. That's obviously not an option, so why are we comparing the two?

 

 

This is the problem with lumping people in, or even equating one situation with another. For instance, I would have no problem adding Bobby Wagner. Adding Clowney would be intriguing. I wanted nothing to do with AB, and want nothing to do with Melvin Gordon, and for very different reasons. 

 

Everyone wanted Mack. Most didn't think it was a realistic opportunity for the Colts, and most balked at the idea of giving up two first rounders for him. 

 

This is not an issue of people being against adding talented players. That's a drastic misrepresentation, almost offensive, and it is being used to attack the fandom of people with different opinions on player acquisition. I'm pretty over it, personally.

 

What it is is an understanding that swinging for the fences comes at a cost, which is something that's routinely ignored when a big name player comes available. It's dismissed in the name of said player being 'a generational talent' or 'a surefire HOFer' or a player who will 'automatically make the Colts a SB team,' and all of those designations are nonsense to begin with. 

 

Multiple times I have said the length of the deal would be the issue...like probably in four different posts in this thread. But I think there are people who would even be against paying a RB (like Zeke) that much money for 1-2 years...or wouldn't even give up a late pick for him. 

 

I brought up Funchess because signing Zeke would be akin to signing a Funchess each offseason for a few years. From a financial standpoint...that's not unreasonable. The picks are a different discussion...but Zeke is also on a completely different level...and there is going to be an acquisition cost to getting a player like that. 

 

The bit about Mack was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. The rest of my comment isn't meant to be an attack or even a generalization...it's just an observation about what I have seen in many fans the past year (the Mack situation actually predated a lot of this).

 

There seems to be a theme...that when a talented non-Colts player vet is mentioned as a possibility to acquire (who would have a cost attached)...there are many that are either dismissive or against it...to the point that late round picks are too much to give up. I think that happens more often than people ignoring the acquisition cost and saying "gimme, gimme." (To be fair...I think saying people "routinely" ignore the acquisition cost is as much of an unfair representation or generalization as what I said...just on the opposite spectrum).

 

I respect your opinion...and we actually agree on many things (including aspects of roster construction)...I just think I must be in the minority when it comes to taking 'big swings' around here.

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12 hours ago, Myles said:

Seems we are nitpicking the definition of a word a bit.   I agree that this wasn't really a "rumor", but it doesn't bother me much that the word was used.   I say we let it drop and just talk of the hypothetical move of Zeke coming to the Colts.  Assuming Luck will be healthy, the offense would be unstoppable.   Hilton, Zeke, Funchess, Ebron, Doyle, Campbell and others along with that O-line.   Wow!

 

As long as we are talking hypotheticals, can you imagine this Colts offense if they got Johnny U out of retirement (and the coffin)? They’d be unstoppable. 

 

The chances of of my dream and this Zeke rumor coming true are basically the same. 

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Reading the thread has made me evaluate my position.  For some reason, an analogy to automobiles came to mind.

 

I have a savings account and a budget.  A snazzy new car with promising specs comes to market, and not many were made.  While not very expensive, it wasn't dirt cheap either.  I didn't end up with one (for any number of reasons) and got a slightly less promising yet also less expensive model.

 

Not long after, the snazzy new model proves it reputation and maybe even exceeds its high expectations.  But when it hits the for sale market, the price tag soars.  And the conundrum begins.

 

Do I want that snazzy car? Why heck yeah I do. If I get it, does it tear into the budget and reduce other possibilities I have with the available funds? Darn it, yes it does.  And yes, there's already some miles racked up on the car now, raising the question of how many good ones are left on it. All while taking in that the model (position) is known to be driven harder and take more abuse than others and thus have a shorter lifespan.

 

Yes I want it.  Taking everything in, just how badly do I want it?

 

No question the one who got it first got the most value. Can the second owner get value too?

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9 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

We value discussion here. However there are rules.

 

 

As long as it isn't transposed into 'real possibilities', because there is no shred of evidence presented here.   (no report from a reputable source, no quoting unnamed source by a reputable source, etc...) Just an idea in the wind that people are entertaining.

 

However, the thread should not evolve into a meaningless thread, which includes the perpetuation of unfounded or unsubstantiated rumors.  Remember those forum rules you agreed to when signing up?   Here's #6 from the full rules article- 

 

6. No “nonsense” posts, this includes rumors.

 

https://forums.colts.com/guidelines/

 

So lets keep speculation just that. At least until something, somehow, somewhere that might have a shred of a credible source at its roots becomes apparent.

Fun police?

 

 

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Trying to get this straight in my mind: Speculation and opinion are OK, but rumors and non-sense are not? I suppose to separate the two groups you need to know what the possibility, therefore the probabilities, are that the event will actually happen. But we almost never do, so that creates a conundrum. In my opinion this is just a rumor. I'll let the mods sort it out.

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12 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

Trying to get this straight in my mind: Speculation and opinion are OK, but rumors and non-sense are not? I suppose to separate the two groups you need to know what the possibility, therefore the probabilities, are that the event will actually happen. But we almost never do, so that creates a conundrum. In my opinion this is just a rumor. I'll let the mods sort it out.

I do two things before I put any weight into things

   1. Look at the source of the information    

   2. Search for a secondary source 

 

       

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Just one thing that's been rolling around in my head. A few posters have used Funchess as a comparison to say if we can pay  him $10 million we can certainly pay Zeke. 

 

Couple of things to bear in mind, we paid a premium for a 1 year deal, and will no doubt pay again if we want to retain him following a good season. It was a bad deal IMO, but it does provide some context to the number. 

 

Secondly you're talking WR to RB. Purely from a market point of view, WRs get paid more. To give an idea if Funchess was a RB he'd be the 4th best paid (Avrg/Year) and is only the 23rd WR. You can't compare number to number  like that without factoring that in somewhat. Also consider that a number of the top young RBs have been paid and set the market somewhat. There's a lot of WRs due soon who will no doubt reset the WR market (Jones, Allen, and to an extent Green possibly).

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11 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

Gordon's best friend is Vikings CB Trae Waynes. Trae needs to talk some sense into his childhood friend.

 

As for Zeke, were fans this hopeful several years ago when the Colts acquired T Richardson? I'm not a fan of Zeke. His football skills are great but his judgment off the field is poor. The Colts seem to stay away from guys with character issues like Elliott. 

Of course fans were hopeful when the Colts acquired T Richardson.  Nothing wrong with that.  But he only played one season with the Browns.  Zeke's resume is far superior to that of Richardson's.  Multiple years of success.  Trying to infer that acquiring Zeke would result in the same outcome makes no sense to me. 

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26 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Of course fans were hopeful when the Colts acquired T Richardson.  Nothing wrong with that.  But he only played one season with the Browns.  Zeke's resume is far superior to that of Richardson's.  Multiple years of success.  Trying to infer that acquiring Zeke would result in the same outcome makes no sense to me. 

IMO there is no doubt that the Colts would be a better team on the field with Zeke.  

I liked the Richardson trade at first.   I was wrong.   Zeke wouldn't have the same risks.

 

Both of their numbers to compare.

image.png.21fde15f402b098ca28df7106dde38c5.png

 

image.png.df44fae95e824d1c88a37a45d6432379.png

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10 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

Just one thing that's been rolling around in my head. A few posters have used Funchess as a comparison to say if we can pay  him $10 million we can certainly pay Zeke. 

 

Couple of things to bear in mind, we paid a premium for a 1 year deal, and will no doubt pay again if we want to retain him following a good season. It was a bad deal IMO, but it does provide some context to the number. 

 

Secondly you're talking WR to RB. Purely from a market point of view, WRs get paid more. To give an idea if Funchess was a RB he'd be the 4th best paid (Avrg/Year) and is only the 23rd WR. You can't compare number to number  like that without factoring that in somewhat. 

That's why it makes sense to pay Zeke.  For 2 or 3 million more you get one of the top two RB's in the league not 23rd WR.   We are talking bang for the buck here.  Ebron and Funchess are on basically prove it deals.  Ballard took a chance.  I think he signed both on the 1st day of FA I believe.  If they prove it they are going to get paid.  Really paid.  Both great signings by Ballard IMO.   So I think it's reasonable to say if we can pay Funchess 10million we can certainly pay Zeke. 

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23 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

1.) I would give Dallas whichever 2nd round pick next year that turns out to be higher for Zeke.

 

2.) I believe the Cowboys would want a 2nd and 3rd, or 2nd and 4th for him.

 

3.) I would immediately extend him to a 5 year, 65 million dollar deal. Ballard said he would eventually bring a non-character guy in the locker room. Given our weakness at RB and if Luck plays week 1, I would pull the trigger now.

 

I'd do a 2nd and 4th for sure, if that's all it takes. But I don't think that will be all it takes. If an opportunity is that good I would take it, but otherwise no, especially cause I don't think we really have a big weakness at RB like many people in the forum have said

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12 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

Gordon's best friend is Vikings CB Trae Waynes. Trae needs to talk some sense into his childhood friend.

 

As for Zeke, were fans this hopeful several years ago when the Colts acquired T Richardson? I'm not a fan of Zeke. His football skills are great but his judgment off the field is poor. The Colts seem to stay away from guys with character issues like Elliott. 

 

Except Zeke is not Trent Richardson.

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16 hours ago, Coltsfan66 said:

I long for the days where Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and other social media sites weren't received as "TRUTH"....smh.   didn't exist.

Tried to fix it. 

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Not really a rumor. Just a writer saying what he believes. In a vacuum, I would want Zeke on the team. He's undeniably talented and would be the best RB on the roster. However, his contract demands and the price necessary to obtain him would not be worth it.

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10 hours ago, ojsglove said:

So here we are again, bunches of cap money, hoping our draft picks are as good as last year, but sweating our QB issue.  

 

How many draft picks are we gonna horde?

 

How much cap space are we gonna bank?

 

I realize this deal with Zeke might be just a rumor and forum fodder, but if we have a chance to bring him in, I say yes.  As I, and many other members have said many times, we have a QB that can win a super bowl, but so far we have wasted the opportunity because we lack that 1 player that completes the puzzle.  

 

Andrew has suffered more pain playing on our team then any other Colt's player that I can recall,  I say again, it's time to loosen the purse strings and sign some proven talent to give him a fighting chance.

Why would Zeke complete the puzzle? When was the last time a team with a high paid RB won the SB? He'd improve the team, no doubt, but it's not worth paying him all that money.

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17 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I wasn’t talking football, I was talking about your sweeping statement about an entire fan base.

I joined this “forum” to discuss football matters. Not to be critiqued by people who can’t talk about football and football matters/issues by demeaning or falsely characterizing people.

 

but if you want to talk about foozeball, I’m all for it. Go Canes!

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49 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

That's why it makes sense to pay Zeke.  For 2 or 3 million more you get one of the top two RB's in the league not 23rd WR.   We are talking bang for the buck here.  Ebron and Funchess are on basically prove it deals.  Ballard took a chance.  I think he signed both on the 1st day of FA I believe.  If they prove it they are going to get paid.  Really paid.  Both great signings by Ballard IMO.   So I think it's reasonable to say if we can pay Funchess 10million we can certainly pay Zeke. 

 

I think you missed my point. It shows how the league values RBs over WRs. Suggests they think RBs 

 

Also so I don’t think you’re talking 2-3 Million per year more. Apparently he’s already turned that down according to certain sources (Charlie Casserley being one). 

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18 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Nah, what happened is you said something that has zero basis in fact and reality and it got called out. 

How could you discredit what I said, when you don’t have any football supporting facts to support your statement. The same post you replied to has my supporting facts, where is yours?

 

But I understand that if your post doesn’t include an emoji, you probably won’t get a super like. Go ahead sir. Not here for likes, rather football facts and knowledge. Carry on.

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7 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I think you missed my point. It shows how the league values RBs over WRs. Suggests they think RBs 

 

Also so I don’t think you’re talking 2-3 Million per year more. Apparently he’s already turned that down according to certain sources (Charlie Casserley being one). 

I understand that the league values WR's more.  But in our case we don't have huge dollars tied up on one or two receivers right now.  And our receiving core is pretty good and could be even better with Cain and Campbell.  That's an advantage for us giving us the opportunity be able to bring  a talent like Zeke on board.  He would make a lot for sure but it wouldn't hurt us dollar wise when you look at what Funchess and Ebron are making.  We could potentially have a top two RB for five years and hopefully our receivers develop to the point when we have to pay them we can down the road.  Until then we take advantage of having a premier RB on our team.  

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18 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

When does this talk become rumor? When someone that matters starts saying it will happen? Guess what? Those people are called journalists, and they don't comment on "rumors."  Does Brad Wells on twitter count as someone who matters? Just curious.

 

Since that article was posted this morning, there are nearly a dozen with this "hypothetical" across the web. For the same reason that this topic garnished so much commentary here... it kind of makes sense and is intriguing. 

 

An example of a rumor: "Unnamed team sources confirm that the Colts have reached out to Dallas about Elliot"

 

 

An example of speculation: "Dallas and Elliot aren't getting along and if they don't work things out, Dallas might have to trade him.  The Colts would make sense because they have cap space and Zeke would take pressure off Luck"

 

 

Do you see the difference?  A rumor is someone claiming that some sort of action has actually been taken, whereas speculation is someone claiming that something should happen because it would make sense. 

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1 hour ago, Rackeen305 said:

I joined this “forum” to discuss football matters. Not to be critiqued by people who can’t talk about football and football matters/issues by demeaning or falsely characterizing people.

 

but if you want to talk about foozeball, I’m all for it. Go Canes!

 

Except that’s exactly what you did when you characterised an entire fan base in one foul swoop. Plenty of fans on here have advocated for bigger name FAs at times. 

 

You’ve been out for every, and I mean every, FA going. It’s not much of a discussion when one side is pretty much shouting without listening to a view point that happens to not match your own.

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39 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I understand that the league values WR's more.  But in our case we don't have huge dollars tied up on one or two receivers right now.  And our receiving core is pretty good and could be even better with Cain and Campbell.  That's an advantage for us giving us the opportunity be able to bring  a talent like Zeke on board.  He would make a lot for sure but it wouldn't hurt us dollar wise when you look at what Funchess and Ebron are making.  We could potentially have a top two RB for five years and hopefully our receivers develop to the point when we have to pay them we can down the road.  Until then we take advantage of having a premier RB on our team.  

 

The money is there is for sure, right now.. but what about post Leonard, Nelson etc. Do you really want a 15 million per year RB stopping you signing one of those? 

 

I just think its it’s a lot to invest in a position that the league doesn’t value as much as you suggest we should pay him.  

 

Seems like the model is to draft a RB and burn the tread off the tyres before the 2nd contract. Rinse and repeat. 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

An example of a rumor: "Unnamed team sources confirm that the Colts have reached out to Dallas about Elliot"

 

 

An example of speculation: "Dallas and Elliot aren't getting along and if they don't work things out, Dallas might have to trade him.  The Colts would make sense because they have cap space and Zeke would take pressure off Luck"

 

 

Do you see the difference?  A rumor is someone claiming that some sort of action has actually been taken, whereas speculation is someone claiming that something should happen because it would make sense. 

 

I was over this whole rumor v. speculation thing like yesterday afternoon... 

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25 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

The money is there is for sure, right now.. but what about post Leonard, Nelson etc. Do you really want a 15 million per year RB stopping you signing one of those? 

 

If it would happen now, and structured properly, it would never affect signing those guys to longterm contracts... 

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