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Zeke to the Colts rumors starting...

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29 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I'm not sure I want Zeke, but I don't think it's selfish for an RB to try to get what he can while he can.  His shelf like is very short and RB is the worst postion on the body and brain.  It is a brutal, brutal occupation.

 

Exactly. In effect, Dallas can keep him for two years after his contract ends with the franchise tags.  By then, his RB value may be worn out due to his age and use.  

 

Yes, that’s still a lot of money to us working folk.  But not as much as one of the top 3 RBs in the league deserves for that many years IMO.  

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Won't believe it until I see it. This is not what Ballard is hoarding picks and capspace for IMO. 

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2 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

Yes, that’s still a lot of money to us working folk.  But not as much as one of the top 3 RBs in the league deserves for that many years IMO.  

 

Or, can get on the open market, which he'll likely never see.

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3 hours ago, fatboy said:

Lost in all of this is that he has two years left on his contract.  It’s hard to argue his “me first” mentality.

 

So does Alvin Kamara, but he isn't holding out/complaining.  Kamara's Total (Rush+Receive) yds is just under Zeke, but yds per touch is better. He has more TD's these last 2 years, and is getting paid much less, even now; and especially next year.

 

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Just now, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

So does Alvin Kamara, but he isn't holding out/complaining.  Kamara's Total (Rush+Receive) yds is just under Zeke, but yds per touch is better. He has more TD's these last 2 years, and is getting paid much less, even now; and especially next year.

 

 

Kamara isn't eligible for an extension until after this season, so holding out or complaining would be entirely pointless.

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50 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I'm not sure I want Zeke, but I don't think it's selfish for an RB to try to get what he can while he can.  His shelf like is very short and RB is the worst postion on the body and brain.  It is a brutal, brutal occupation.

I feel the same way

 

     I think the attitude of JJ has cost ‘America’s Team” the long term services of EE

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7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Kamara isn't eligible for an extension until after this season, so holding out or complaining would be entirely pointless.

 

Ahh, yes. Zeke has an extra year on Alvin for that 3rd year.
 

On another note, doesn't Zeke have the potential to lose an accrued season and thus not get unrestricted free agency if the Cowboys don't budge and he comes back to play ( lose his unrestricted status if he fails to report to camp for next year ) later?

 

 

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Just now, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Ahh, yes. Zeke has an extra year on Alvin for that 3rd year.
 

On another note, doesn't Zeke have the potential to lose an accrued season and thus not get unrestricted free agency if the Cowboys don't budge and he comes back to play ( lose his unrestricted status if he fails to report to camp for next year ) later?

 

I think he has to play six games to have an accrued season.

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2 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

I think Zeke is a pretty special RB...and I think he could have a huge impact. According to AV, he was one of the top 20 most valuable players last year. 

 

If he's putting up 2,000+ all-purpose yards and scoring 10-15 TDs...I don't think many people would complain about his contract. 

 

Also, if Ballard can give $10M to Funchess, a WR who has been mostly disappointing in his career...he can give an All-Pro RB a few million more.

 

And I think Ballard would give Zeke the money he wants for a couple of years...just not the four-year extension (past his rookie deal) that he probably wants.

 

That would be my issue as well. I don't love the idea of paying a RB that type of money for a couple of seasons...but I would do it...because I think a player like that can help win a Super Bowl. But if the contract was multiple more years than that, my cap guy better be real creative.

Great point about the money.  When you look at what we are paying Funchess and even Houston and Ebron right now a few million more for a young talent like Zeke looks very reasonable to me.   Even the 4yr extension doesn't bother me because it absorbs the 5th yr option and avoids the possible expensive franchise tags that could come into play down the road.  Zeke is on his way to a potential HOF career.  Could you imagine if he went in as a Colt with a few SB's on his resume.  How awesome would that be.  To quote Scott Pennock the FO would be silly to ignore this opportunity and at least reach out to the Cowboys.  

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1 hour ago, Nickster said:

 

I'm not sure I want Zeke, but I don't think it's selfish for an RB to try to get what he can while he can.  His shelf like is very short and RB is the worst postion on the body and brain.  It is a brutal, brutal occupation.

 

Agreed 100%. The rookie wage scale was a good move for most players except RB's. The new model is to draft a RB (dont pay him much due to rookie wage deal), run him into the ground over 5 years and then move on to the next. 


I doubt it will happen but they need to balance this in the new CBA. RB's should get a 3 year rookie contract (2 with team option for 3) and they can't be tagged off their first contract. That gives elite RB's a shot at 3 total contracts instead of 2.

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12 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Great point about the money.  When you look at what we are paying Funchess and even Houston and Ebron right now a few million more for a young talent like Zeke looks very reasonable to me.   Even the 4yr extension doesn't bother me because it absorbs the 5th yr option and avoids the possible expensive franchise tags that could come into play down the road.  Zeke is on his way to a potential HOF career.  Could you imagine if he went in as a Colt with a few SB's on his resume.  How awesome would that be.  To quote Scott Pennock the FO would be silly to ignore this opportunity and at least reach out to the Cowboys.  

 

Yeah...if you are fine paying Funchess $10M...you should be ok with paying Zeke $13.5M. We are talking about differnet stratospheres of production, team value and impact (for what it does for the offense)...not to mention the marketing aspect of it.

 

And I bet many people here would be more than happy to give $12M/year for 3-4 years. So now you are talking about $1-2M more than a pass-catching TE heading who is two years older than Zeke.

 

I think a lot of it comes back to the length of the contract. I have more stomach than most...because the Colts cap situation is pretty ridiculous right now. But I can see not wanting to commit a David Johnson type contract if I could avoid it.

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5 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Yeah...if you are fine paying Funchess $10M...you should be ok with paying Zeke $13.5M. We are talking about differnet stratospheres of production, team value and impact (for what it does for the offense)...not to mention the marketing aspect of it.

 

And I bet many people here would be more than happy to give $12M/year for 3-4 years. So now you are talking about $1-2M more than a pass-catching TE heading who is two years older than Zeke.

 

I think a lot of it comes back to the length of the contract. I have more stomach than most...because the Colts cap situation is pretty ridiculous right now. But I can see not wanting to commit a David Johnson type contract if I could avoid it.

i'd rather pay EE 13.5M than Funch 10 or 13M. need to keep in mind that Funch is getting a bit more because it's only a one year deal though. 

 

the only reason why I'm ok with Funch's contract is simply because we have plenty of space and a one year deal. if we were paying him at the detriment to another position, i wouldn't be OK with it at all.

 

overall, if we're going to shell out for a big dollar and long term contract for a FA/trade, i'd prefer it be for a DE or iDL.

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4 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

I am sure there were many people here against the idea of Khalil Mack. It's been a theme for a while now...to be against bringing in talented players.

 

Here's a list of players off the top of my head (just from this offseason) that I recall many people didn't want...Leveon Bell, OBJ, Antonio Brown (understandable), Bobby Wagner, Jadeveon Clowney, Melvin Gordon, Zeke, Suh, Tevin Coleman, Duke Johnson.

 

 

 

This team/fan base does not want any player wanting deserved/proven $. Except AL who cant stay healthy unfortunately. I concur.

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.................................

 

Silence is golden.

 

.................................

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Wow - nearly 3 full pages of discussion on...

 

1) Just a "writer" speculating - not an actual rumor of something in the works

 

2) Something that has 0.00% chance of happening.   Ballard is simply not giving up draft picks and paying premium money on top of it.

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7 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

 

This team/fan base does not want any player wanting deserved/proven $. Except AL who cant stay healthy unfortunately. I concur.

 

Uhuh.. hyperbolic doesn’t do this statement justice. 

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14 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

 

This team/fan base does not want any player wanting deserved/proven $. Except AL who cant stay healthy unfortunately. I concur.

 

5 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Uhuh.. hyperbolic doesn’t do this statement justice. 

Edgerrin James. Cough! "Hyperbolic statements". So when I dont have anything factual to rebut with, lets just attempt to make another factual point less creditable. (When you are losing a football discussion Rule #1).

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2 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

 

Edgerrin James. Cough! "Hyperbolic statements". So when I dont have anything factual to rebut with, lets just attempt to make another factual point less creditable. (When you are losing a football discussion Rule #1).

 

Nah, what happened is you said something that has zero basis in fact and reality and it got called out. 

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10 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

Wow - nearly 3 full pages of discussion on...

 

1) Just a "writer" speculating - not an actual rumor of something in the works

 

2) Something that has 0.00% chance of happening.   Ballard is simply not giving up draft picks and paying premium money on top of it.

 

 

Ru•mor: a currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth. 

 

I sometimes put more weight into speculation than rumors... 

 

We can say that there is 0% chance this would be entertained, but do we know? Ballard's been very clear they are always looking to get "players" and I know for an absolute fact this FO looks at Zeke Elliott as a player in this league. You better believe he inquired about Mack last year and I would hope that he would do the same if he knew they were looking to trade Zeke. The price may be too high, but I fully believe Ballard would entertain it... Especially considering Frank's desire to run the football and his displeasure with how things are going in the run game this preseason. We have Marlon Mack, an injury prone and unproven back (consistency wise) and a bunch of guys on the IR... 

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I would be happy to see Zeke in a Colts uniform.   

He is very young and maybe the best RB in the league.  

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1 hour ago, shastamasta said:

 

Yeah...if you are fine paying Funchess $10M...you should be ok with paying Zeke $13.5M. We are talking about differnet stratospheres of production, team value and impact (for what it does for the offense)...not to mention the marketing aspect of it.

 

And I bet many people here would be more than happy to give $12M/year for 3-4 years. So now you are talking about $1-2M more than a pass-catching TE heading who is two years older than Zeke.

 

I think a lot of it comes back to the length of the contract. I have more stomach than most...because the Colts cap situation is pretty ridiculous right now. But I can see not wanting to commit a David Johnson type contract if I could avoid it.

 

If it were an option to pay Zeke $13.5m for one year and not give up draft picks for the right to do so, I'd be first in line. That would be the equivalent of the Funchess signing. That's obviously not an option, so why are we comparing the two?

 

4 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

I am sure there were many people here against the idea of Khalil Mack. It's been a theme for a while now...to be against bringing in talented players.

 

Here's a list of players off the top of my head (just from this offseason) that I recall many people didn't want...Leveon Bell, OBJ, Antonio Brown (understandable), Bobby Wagner, Jadeveon Clowney, Melvin Gordon, Zeke, Suh, Tevin Coleman, Duke Johnson.

 

This is the problem with lumping people in, or even equating one situation with another. For instance, I would have no problem adding Bobby Wagner. Adding Clowney would be intriguing. I wanted nothing to do with AB, and want nothing to do with Melvin Gordon, and for very different reasons. 

 

Everyone wanted Mack. Most didn't think it was a realistic opportunity for the Colts, and most balked at the idea of giving up two first rounders for him. 

 

This is not an issue of people being against adding talented players. That's a drastic misrepresentation, almost offensive, and it is being used to attack the fandom of people with different opinions on player acquisition. I'm pretty over it, personally.

 

What it is is an understanding that swinging for the fences comes at a cost, which is something that's routinely ignored when a big name player comes available. It's dismissed in the name of said player being 'a generational talent' or 'a surefire HOFer' or a player who will 'automatically make the Colts a SB team,' and all of those designations are nonsense to begin with. 

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Just now, Myles said:

I would be happy to see Zeke in a Colts uniform.   

He is very young and maybe the best RB in the league.  

 

Likewise. I would be VERY happy. And this league would be put on notice, immediately, about the Indianapolis Colts... 

 

The same people saying no thanks are the same that question why we are hoarding so much capspace and picks, now that we have a relatively strong roster. Runningback is a need, IMO. If it's there (And I HIGHLY doubt that the option will be there) then I'm in favor of going for it. 

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5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

This is a half-baked idea coming from a corner of the Internet. It's not worthy of discussion, 

If that is the new criteria, then this board is going to become very silent. :)

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12 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

 

Ru•mor: a currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth. 

 

I sometimes put more weight into speculation than rumors... 

 

We can say that there is 0% chance this would be entertained, but do we know? Ballard's been very clear they are always looking to get "players" and I know for an absolute fact this FO looks at Zeke Elliott as a player in this league. You better believe he inquired about Mack last year and I would hope that he would do the same if he knew they were looking to trade Zeke. The price may be too high, but I fully believe Ballard would entertain it... Especially considering Frank's desire to run the football and his displeasure with how things are going in the run game this preseason. We have Marlon Mack, an injury prone and unproven back (consistency wise) and a bunch of guys on the IR... 

 

Did you follow the link to the original source of this at The Big Lead?  It's an opinion piece titled "Three Teams That Should Try and Trade For Ezekiel Elliott".  The author names the Colts, Seahawks, and Niners -- and explains why in each case.

 

So really, this isn't even speculation...much less a rumor.  It's one author's opinion that we'd be a good place for EE (along with two other teams) if things don't work out for him in Dallas.

 

A rumor is when there are unsubstantiated reports of something happening or being discussed, etc. -- by people who actually matter, that is.

 

That's not what this is.  It's some yay-hoo who thinks we'd be a good fit for him.

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8 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

If that is the new criteria, then this board is going to become very silent. :)

Yep.

I think forums like this are the perfect place to discuss hypothetical situations.   If someone doesn't like them, they don't have to join in.  

 

I'd be all in on getting Zeke.   The team would be improved immediately.   

 

 

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1 minute ago, Myles said:

Yep.

I think forums like this are the perfect place to discuss hypothetical situations.   If someone doesn't like them, they don't have to join in.  

 

I'd be all in on getting Zeke.   The team would be improved immediately.   

 

Nothing wrong with discussing hypotheticals. My objection was to calling this a "rumor," because it's not. 

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2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I think he has to play six games to have an accrued season.

 

Isn't that for vets?  Isn't it different for rookies?

 

I think he has to show up to camp next year in order to accrue his 4 seasons to be UFA.  This years he missed deadline (30 days before camp) and now gets fines and potentially dock pay.

 

searching... saw something about Odell Beckham...  oh here.

 

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/2019/08/07/dallas-cowboys-ezekiel-elliott-holdout-contract-accrued-season-deadline-fines-signing-bonus-penalties-toll/

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

Did you follow the link to the original source of this at The Big Lead?  It's an opinion piece titled "Three Teams That Should Try and Trade For Ezekiel Elliott".  The author names the Colts, Seahawks, and Niners -- and explains why in each case.

 

So really, this isn't even speculation...much less a rumor.  It's one author's opinion that we'd be a good place for EE (along with two other teams) if things don't work out for him in Dallas.

 

A rumor is when there are unsubstantiated reports of something happening or being discussed, etc. -- by people who actually matter, that is.

 

That's not what this is.  It's some yay-hoo who thinks we'd be a good fit for him.

I agree, but it is fun to talk about.  

I think the 0% chance comment (by whoever said it) was just as silly as saying this is a rumor.   It's not 0%.   Zeke is holding out.   The owner is kind of talking bad about him, so the relationship is getting sour.   So I think there may be something like a 10% chance he gets traded.   I don't think he will.   The Colts are one of the few teams in a good cap situation, so maybe the chance is closer to 3% that he would be traded to the Colts.

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Just now, Myles said:

I agree, but it is fun to talk about.  

I think the 0% chance comment (by whoever said it) was just as silly as saying this is a rumor.   It's not 0%.   Zeke is holding out.   The owner is kind of talking bad about him, so the relationship is getting sour.   So I think there may be something like a 10% chance he gets traded.   I don't think he will.   The Colts are one of the few teams in a good cap situation, so maybe the chance is closer to 3% that he would be traded to the Colts.

 

Fair enough.  And I agree that we have to have something to talk about until the games start.  And things like this are one of the main reasons Fantasy Football and Madden Ultimate Team exist.  All fans like to fantasize -- and when you mix that with free time before the games start....

 

But, like Superman, I just object to this being called a "rumor."

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35 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

 

 

Agreed 100%. The rookie wage scale was a good move for most players except RB's. The new model is to draft a RB (dont pay him much due to rookie wage deal), run him into the ground over 5 years and then move on to the next. 


I doubt it will happen but they need to balance this in the new CBA. RB's should get a 3 year rookie contract (2 with team option for 3) and they can't be tagged off their first contract. That gives elite RB's a shot at 3 total contracts instead of 2.

Years still makes a loophole.......and it is touches. I like the idea of a rookie RB's contract becoming paid in full upon reaching 4 years or 1200 touches(?), whichever comes first. Something like that...

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Just now, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Isn't that for vets?  Isn't it different for rookies?

 

I think he has to show up to camp next year in order to accrue his 4 seasons to be UFA.  This years he missed deadline (30 days before camp) and now gets fines and potentially dock pay.

 

searching... saw something about Odell Beckham...  oh here.

 

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/2019/08/07/dallas-cowboys-ezekiel-elliott-holdout-contract-accrued-season-deadline-fines-signing-bonus-penalties-toll/

 

 

 

 

There's a key paragraph in that article (which, overall, I found to be confusing, not clarifying, but that's just me). 

 

Quote

So as long as Elliott reports by Week 10, his fourth year in the NFL counts in 2019, his fifth-year option stays in 2020 and he will be a UFA in 2021. He will have to report by the accrued-season date in 2020 (provided no long-term deal is done by then) or he will risk being a restricted free agent in 2021, with the club still able to place the more expensive but more secure franchise tag on him that year.

 

That's my understanding. He can sit out until Week 10, and it doesn't affect his FA status.

 

And I think the reason it doesn't matter in Zeke's case is because the Cowboys have already exercised the fifth year option for 2020, which is effectively guaranteed. If they were to rescind that option, they would not hold RFA rights over him, as long as he accrues a season in 2019. (This is how Aaron Donald's situation played out; Zeke is still a year away from where Donald was when he got his new contract.)

 

There would be a different calculus for a player not drafted in the first round, because then there's no fifth year option. But I still believe that as long as said player reports before Week 10, he would accrue a season and not be a RFA after Year 4.

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10 minutes ago, Myles said:

I agree, but it is fun to talk about.  

I think the 0% chance comment (by whoever said it) was just as silly as saying this is a rumor.   It's not 0%.   Zeke is holding out.   The owner is kind of talking bad about him, so the relationship is getting sour.   So I think there may be something like a 10% chance he gets traded.   I don't think he will.   The Colts are one of the few teams in a good cap situation, so maybe the chance is closer to 3% that he would be traded to the Colts.

So you are saying Zeke Elliot has a better chance of teaching hot yoga for the entire 2019 season than signing with the Colts? You're probably right.

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@ColtsBlueFL

 

By the way, I think whatever the accrual deadline is, that's the only real deadline in this situation. I would expect him to show up for Week 1, but as far as the money goes, as long as he accrues a season, he'll make back whatever he loses in a protracted holdout. 

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33 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

 

Edgerrin James. Cough! "Hyperbolic statements". So when I dont have anything factual to rebut with, lets just attempt to make another factual point less creditable. (When you are losing a football discussion Rule #1).

 

I wasn’t talking football, I was talking about your sweeping statement about an entire fan base.

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19 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

Did you follow the link to the original source of this at The Big Lead?  It's an opinion piece titled "Three Teams That Should Try and Trade For Ezekiel Elliott".  The author names the Colts, Seahawks, and Niners -- and explains why in each case.

 

So really, this isn't even speculation...much less a rumor.  It's one author's opinion that we'd be a good place for EE (along with two other teams) if things don't work out for him in Dallas.

 

A rumor is when there are unsubstantiated reports of something happening or being discussed, etc. -- by people who actually matter, that is.

 

That's not what this is.  It's some yay-hoo who thinks we'd be a good fit for him.

 What's the harm in discussing the article?  All the article did was start a thread.  Nothing wrong with that.  Opinion vs rumor.  Either way it would have generated a big response.

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12 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

Fair enough.  And I agree that we have to have something to talk about until the games start.  And things like this are one of the main reasons Fantasy Football and Madden Ultimate Team exist.  All fans like to fantasize -- and when you mix that with free time before the games start....

 

But, like Superman, I just object to this being called a "rumor."

 

Object or not, the only reason I titled this with the word "rumor," that you all are so hung up about (for wharever reason, on a forum board that is filled with this type of discussion) is because the article was literally titled "NFL Trade Rumor..." 

30 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

A rumor is when there are unsubstantiated reports of something happening or being discussed, etc. -- by people who actually matter, that is.

 

Where I come from (Indiana), this is quite the contrary... 

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1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

 What's the harm in discussing the article?  All the article did was start a thread.  Nothing wrong with that.  Opinion vs rumor.  Either way it would have generated a big response.

 

There's no harm at all -- I never said there was.  I just want it to be properly labeled as a hypothetical.

 

You bring up the possibility of a star player being traded to the Colts and call it a "rumor" (which, in fairness to the OP, was actually the fault of the NJ.com author he linked to), some people are going to make way more out of that than is warranted.

 

There is no rumor that Elliott is going to be traded -- to the Colts or anywhere else.

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1 minute ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

There's no harm at all -- I never said there was.  I just want it to be properly labeled as a hypothetical.

 

You bring up the possibility of a star player being traded to the Colts and call it a "rumor" (which, in fairness to the OP, was actually the fault of the NJ.com author he linked to), some people are going to make way more out of that than is warranted.

 

There is no rumor that Elliott is going to be traded -- to the Colts or anywhere else.

 

When does this talk become rumor? When someone that matters starts saying it will happen? Guess what? Those people are called journalists, and they don't comment on "rumors."  Does Brad Wells on twitter count as someone who matters? Just curious.

 

Since that article was posted this morning, there are nearly a dozen with this "hypothetical" across the web. For the same reason that this topic garnished so much commentary here... it kind of makes sense and is intriguing. 

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    • I get that but will they value keeping a guy like Milligan or Taylor active for the games over a sixth WR who isn’t showing anything. Somebody will be cut when DF comes back and someone who has contributed will end up being inactive.
    • Glow struggled against Watt, but that's understandable. As our 5th best OL, had some bad plays, but he played decent all things considered. 
    • Cain needs to improve his route running, but JB has thrown some bad passes his way, and has totally missed him several times when open. Given Cain is running more deep routes than anyone, and JB's average air yards are among the worst in the league, his lack of production shouldn't surprise many.   JB did say that deep balls are coming. Given Cain is the deep route guy, one has to believe that Reich is trying to work with JB to increase is average air yards, and likely push it down field more.    I get that a lot of folks are still high over JBs break out game, but he still has areas that need improvement. TTT, air yards, stare downs, progression, etc.. It's going to get a lot tougher throwing vs Denver. 
    • Until he plays well in a reg season  game I don't  expect much
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