Zeke to the Colts rumors starting...

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

And to simplify things, lets say Luck wanted to come to Indy.

 

1)Would you pick up AL knowing he wants top $dollars? say ($50+$70 million Guaranteed).

 

2) Do you object AL current contract?

 

1) Yes.

 

2) No.

 

One important variable: Andrew Luck is a franchise QB. 

[dodsworth]

2 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

Have you ever seen Zeke at Ohio state? He was doing the same thing there as well fyi.

OSU is one of the top football programs in the Midwest so I'm sure

he had quality linemen in front of him there also. 

 

The bottom line is that Ballard isn't going to pay a RB top dollar

or what Zeke "thinks" he is worth.

[BleedBlu8792]

5 minutes ago, dodsworth said:

Zeke is a good RB but is a product of his offensive line, much like 

Emmit Smith a couple decades ago for the Cowboys.

 

Running backs can't run through 600 lbs of linemen coming through

the lines to meet them, physically impossible. They need open holes.

 

To the bolded, and as a fan, no... Ohio States OL is far from why Zeke was productive. Urban's RPO scheme masked  A LOT of deficiencies with that OL. Zeke is as good as advertised. There's a reason he was compared to Edgerrin James.

[shasta519]

This isn't even a rumor...it's a trade idea article. The Colts are one of three teams in the article.

 

I actually think the take makes sense. Reich wants a top rushing attack...Luck might be limited in some fashion for a while. Zeke does help both of those aspects.

 

It won't ever happen...for multiple reasons...but I would love to have Zeke on this team for the next 3 or so years. He's had a huge impact in DAL the past few years...and could help take IND to the Super Bowl. 

 

 

 

[dew5150]

Zeke will never play for the Colts. End of story.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

5 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

Ok, lets make things even more interesting. Were you one of the "Fans" who objected against picking up Khalil Mack when he was let go by the Raiders. You would have known that MACK demanded top $ as well.?

 

I said pay MACK regardless of what he wanted btw. the only thing he did was, during his first game (limited practice time. But we are talking about PRACTICE) create a few sacks, force fumble and TD.

 

You're muddying already-dirty waters with these comparisons to other positions.  Look, Zeke is one of the best RBs in the NFL, no question about that, and he'd be great behind Big Q and this OLine.

 

The issue is that he's a RB, one of the most devalued positions in the game.  Is the production difference between Conner/Bell, Gurley/Anderson, or Zeke/Pollard really worth tens of millions of dollars?  The Colts didn't win a SB with Edge, but did with Addai/Rhodes...

 

And on top of having to pay Zeke top-dollar, we'd have to trade draft-capital to acquire him.  THAT'S the deal-breaker for me.

[shasta519]

15 minutes ago, dodsworth said:

Zeke is a good RB but is a product of his offensive line, much like 

Emmit Smith a couple decades ago for the Cowboys.

 

Running backs can't run through 600 lbs of linemen coming through

the lines to meet them, physically impossible. They need open holes.

 

He was #2 in evaded tackles last season. Besides the Colts now have a top OL...so we should expect that production to continue.

 

Zeke was #8 in breakawy run %...put him behind this OL and he's All Pro as well.

[WarGhost21]

1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

So a few questions:

 

1) What would people be happy to give up?

2) What do people think the Cowboys would actually take?

3) Imagine that by trading for him  you'd have to extend him off the bat, else you're just in the same situation as the Cowboys, so what contract are you happy to give him?

 

I vaguely remember hearing about a cut off date for extending traded players, but I might be well off there. @Superman?

 

Not happening, but to entertain it:

 

1) I'd give a 3rd or 4th, the Cowboys have no leverage at the moment.

2) They'd probably want a first, but would be forced to settle because they won't get that offer.

3) 3 years, $40 million would be about the most I'd offer

 

[jameszeigler834]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

1.) I would give Dallas whichever 2nd round pick next year that turns out to be higher for Zeke.

 

2.) I believe the Cowboys would want a 2nd and 3rd, or 2nd and 4th for him.

 

3.) I would immediately extend him to a 5 year, 65 million dollar deal. Ballard said he would eventually bring a non-character guy in the locker room. Given our weakness at RB and if Luck plays week 1, I would pull the trigger now.

They would want a 1st rounder and a 2nd or 3rd at the very least.

[ColtStrong2013]

43 minutes ago, Superman said:

To the OP, this isn't a rumor. This is a half-baked idea coming from a corner of the Internet. 

 

Is there actually much difference? Half baked idea of trade possibility that makes sense or a rumor which is nothing more than nonsense on most occasions when related to the nfl... 

 

43 minutes ago, Superman said:

It's not worthy of discussion

 

48 replies this morning and lots of discussion on this forum says otherwise. It's just a half baked idea to talk about, relax...  

[dodsworth]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

1) Yes.

 

2) No.

 

One important variable: Andrew Luck is a franchise QB. 

Meh, I'm going to get barbecued for this but the Colts have brought

In a quick hitting offense to allow quarterbacks to do better than in

other systems that take longer to evolve downfield.

 

Quick release and accuracy go a long way in a system like ours. 

Joe Montana and Brady have built their reputations on similar 

systems, along with well rounded teams. Nick Foles won a title

with a quick hitting system.

 

Will Ballard break the bank without Irsay sticking his nose in

the situation or ask for a home town discount like Brady does.

Either way I'm fine with whoever Ballard places under center

and what cost.

[richard pallo]

10 minutes ago, dodsworth said:

Zeke is a good RB but is a product of his offensive line, much like 

Emmit Smith a couple decades ago for the Cowboys.

 

Running backs can't run through 600 lbs of linemen coming through

the lines to meet them, physically impossible. They need open holes.

Well we DO have a very good offensive line so he should be just as productive.  Mack is okay but he does have trouble running inside.  Even starting with the 1st team OL minus one he had problems against Cleveland.  He didn't look comfortable running inside in that game.  On one play I thought he made the wrong cut.  Anyway I know it's preseason but there is a huge difference in the two.  No a trade is probably not going to happen.  What's more likely to happen is we pick up Carlos Hyde (The Chiefs connection again) and he is our no.2 behind Mack.  That's a more likely Ballard move.  It is fun to dream about Zeke in our backfield though.  What an offense that would be.  

[twfish]

I would in a heartbeat. I would give up a second and either Jalen Collins or maybe a 3rd and Wilson. If i recall correctly they are thin at CB. Contract wise i would very heavily front load the contract. Anyone thinking he would not improve this team is crazy. He may be somewhat of a diva but I believe he is still young enough that he could be taken in by the locker room and become a team guy again. He was not like this at Ohio but the cowboys seem to be a team that pushes players to be individuals.

[dodsworth]

7 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

He was #2 in evaded tackles last season. Besides the Colts now have a top OL...so we should expect that production to continue.

 

Zeke was #8 in breakawy run %...put him behind this OL and he's All Pro as well.

Touche' but top dollar for a RB is still a mistake unless it's a Barry Sanders

or a Walter Payton.

[shasta519]

25 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

Ok, lets make things even more interesting. Were you one of the "Fans" who objected against picking up Khalil Mack when he was let go by the Raiders. You would have known that MACK demanded top $ as well.?

 

I said pay MACK regardless of what he wanted btw. the only thing he did was, during his first game (limited practice time. But we are talking about PRACTICE) create a few sacks, force fumble and TD.

 

I am sure there were many people here against the idea of Khalil Mack. It's been a theme for a while now...to be against bringing in talented players.

 

Here's a list of players off the top of my head (just from this offseason) that I recall many people didn't want...Leveon Bell, OBJ, Antonio Brown (understandable), Bobby Wagner, Jadeveon Clowney, Melvin Gordon, Zeke, Suh, Tevin Coleman, Duke Johnson.

 

 

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

Is there actually much difference? Half baked idea of trade possibility that makes sense or a rumor which is nothing more than nonsense on most occasions when related to the nfl... 

 

 

48 replies this morning and lots of discussion on this forum says otherwise. It's just a half baked idea to talk about, relax...  

 

Yes, there's a difference. Rumors are based in reality, whether they wind up happening or not.

 

And I'm plenty relaxed, thanks. It's still not worthy of discussion.

[EastStreet]

Marlon Mack reading this thread, and making only 633K/y and under contract till 2021, be like:

 

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, dodsworth said:

Meh, I'm going to get barbecued for this but the Colts have brought

In a quick hitting offense to allow quarterbacks to do better than in

other systems that take longer to evolve downfield.

 

Quick release and accuracy go a long way in a system like ours. 

Joe Montana and Brady have built their reputations on similar 

systems, along with well rounded teams. Nick Foles won a title

with a quick hitting system.

 

Will Ballard break the bank without Irsay sticking his nose in

the situation or ask for a home town discount like Brady does.

Either way I'm fine with whoever Ballard places under center

and what cost.

 

That's an entirely different discussion. If you think you can replace your QB in a cost effective way, that's fine. But the question was whether I'd be okay with paying Luck, who is a franchise QB. 

[Devildog]

I'm still waiting for Wilkins to turn into an Arian Foster, lol.

[aaron11]

3 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

Marlon Mack reading this thread, and making only 633K/y and under contract till 2021, be like:

 

hes not a top back, hasnt even hit 1000 yards in a season 

 

he will look under paid if he manages to have a big year or two though 

[King Colt]

I think every team forum posts these kind of topics every time an above average or top five players is rumored to be unhappy where they are.

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

hes not a top back, hasnt even hit 1000 yards in a season 

 

he will look under paid if he manages to have a big year or two though 

16th in yards last year (6th in yards per game), and being paid 131st.... 

Out of all the RBs we've had in and out of camp and on the roster so far, he's the 7th highest paid Colt's RB..... 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

11 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

Marlon Mack reading this thread, and making only 633K/y and under contract till 2021, be like:

 

It’s going to be interesting to see if Ballard extends him  after this year for a few more years.  Of course he will need to ball out this year.

[shasta519]

7 minutes ago, dodsworth said:

Touche' but top dollar for a RB is still a mistake unless it's a Barry Sanders

or a Walter Payton.

 

I think Zeke is a pretty special RB...and I think he could have a huge impact. According to AV, he was one of the top 20 most valuable players last year. 

 

If he's putting up 2,000+ all-purpose yards and scoring 10-15 TDs...I don't think many people would complain about his contract. 

 

Also, if Ballard can give $10M to Funchess, a WR who has been mostly disappointing in his career...he can give an All-Pro RB a few million more.

 

And I think Ballard would give Zeke the money he wants for a couple of years...just not the four-year extension (past his rookie deal) that he probably wants.

 

That would be my issue as well. I don't love the idea of paying a RB that type of money for a couple of seasons...but I would do it...because I think a player like that can help win a Super Bowl. But if the contract was multiple more years than that, my cap guy better be real creative.

[shasta519]

17 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

Marlon Mack reading this thread, and making only 633K/y and under contract till 2021, be like:

 

 

If he has a big year...his agent is going to come for his as well...especially heading into the final year of his rookie deal. I doubt he would asks for top-tier money...but right at or above the Devonta Freeman wouldn't be out of the question.

[dodsworth]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That's an entirely different discussion. If you think you can replace your QB in a cost effective way, that's fine. But the question was whether I'd be okay with paying Luck, who is a franchise QB. 

Ok, but Manning won one title with the Colts while being one of the highest paid players by league standards. 

 

As long as the team is still well rounded without gaping holes then 

that would be fine. Polian made this mistake by placing his eggs in

a few baskets and not having enough quality talent in certain positions.

 

I like Luck but I'm not goo goo eyed like a lot of people. 

[csmopar]

27 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

I am sure there were many people here against the idea of Khalil Mack. It's been a theme for a while now...to be against bringing in talented players.

 

Here's a list of players off the top of my head (just from this offseason) that I recall many people didn't want...Leveon Bell, OBJ, Antonio Brown (understandable), Bobby Wagner, Jadeveon Clowney, Melvin Gordon, Zeke, Suh, Tevin Coleman, Duke Johnson.

 

 

It’s not that we didn’t want them, but it’s the capital required to bring them in.  This isn’t Madden where teams would take a 7th round pick for a star player. 

 

If any any of them hit the FA market, I’m all for making a run at them. But thanks to some recent crap drafts,  teams have a TON of cap space which is causing some HUGE contracts with HUGE amounts of guaranteed monies. I’m watching closing the Raiders and Browns, both went all in so if they don’t make a deep play off run, or worse yet, don’t even go 8/8, then that is gonna prove that high dollar spending doesn’t equal a thing

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

If he has a big year...his agent is going to come for his as well...especially heading into the final year of his rookie deal. I doubt he would asks for top-tier money...but right at or above the Devonta Freeman wouldn't be out of the question.

Freeman is #4 currently.

It'll be interesting to see if he can stay healthy this year. If he can, not reason why he's not top 10 if not top 5 in rushing. Some of the guys like Gurley and Barkley also bring a lot of receiving yards along with top rushing yards, so hard for me to see Mack getting top 5 money. I'd bet 6-10. 

[aaron11]

12 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

16th in yards last year (6th in yards per game), and being paid 131st.... 

Out of all the RBs we've had in and out of camp and on the roster so far, he's the 7th highest paid Colt's RB..... 

16th is average for a starter thats about where i would rank him

 

zeke has produced his whole career, its silly to compare his contract to macks.

[aaron11]

6 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

Freeman is #4 currently.

It'll be interesting to see if he can stay healthy this year. If he can, not reason why he's not top 10 if not top 5 in rushing. Some of the guys like Gurley and Barkley also bring a lot of receiving yards along with top rushing yards, so hard for me to see Mack getting top 5 money. I'd bet 6-10. 

Mack could approach that top group if he got better at catching.  i dont expect great route running or anything, but hes had trouble with catching to the point of being a liability.    

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

16th is average for a starter thats about where i would rank him

 

zeke has produced his whole career, its silly to compare his contract to macks.

didn't actually compare them. it was a little humor speculating on Mack's reaction to all the talk in this thread from colts fans, and the EE situation in general. 

 

but, if i were to compare them. i'd point out that they have the same average yards per attempt. i'd also point out that Mack had 3 more rushing TDs than EE while hving over 100 less rushing attempts. Mack (1) also had 5 less fumbles than EE. 

 

[ColtStrong2013]

40 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yes, there's a difference. Rumors are based in reality, whether they wind up happening or not.

 

And I'm plenty relaxed, thanks. It's still not worthy of discussion.

 

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

Mack could approach that top group if he got better at catching.  i dont expect great route running or anything, but hes had trouble with catching to the point of being a liability.    

yup. agree. more importantly, he needs to stay healthy and get more carries.

[MarquisJ]

Zeke is a generation talent, I don’t think this will ever happen but I’ll play along.. I think giving up a 2nd for zeke would be almost a no brainer. 

[Superman]

21 minutes ago, dodsworth said:

Ok, but Manning won one title with the Colts while being one of the highest paid players by league standards. 

 

As long as the team is still well rounded without gaping holes then 

that would be fine. Polian made this mistake by placing his eggs in

a few baskets and not having enough quality talent in certain positions.

 

I like Luck but I'm not goo goo eyed like a lot of people. 

 

Correlation, not causation. The Colts didn't fail to win more SBs because of Manning's pay. The Colts more probably made the playoffs all those years in a row because of Manning's play, as he helped make up for a lot of roster deficiencies.

 

Either way, however you want to construct your team, you need good QB play. Good QBs are not as rare as it was 10-15 years ago, but I still don't think teams are eager or willing to move off of a capable QB, because QB play is important, and capable QBs don't grow on trees.

 

As it relates to the RB discussion, it's much easier to find a capable RB. And RBs need to be replaced more frequently, due to the physical impact of the position. So the comparison doesn't even get off the ground, for these and other reasons.

 

And you don't have to be goo goo eyed to recognize that Luck is more important to the Colts than any RB would be.

[Scott Pennock]

With Zeke running behind our oline, and Mack as the number 2 with Himes as the 3rd down back - now THAT would be a top 5 rushing offense.

 

Mack can take some of the load off of Zeke and all three backs stay strong and healthy for deep playoff runs.

 

The FO would be silly to ignore this opportunity and at least reach out to the Cowboys.

[Goatface Killah]

1 hour ago, Rackeen305 said:

Ok, lets make things even more interesting. Were you one of the "Fans" who objected against picking up Khalil Mack when he was let go by the Raiders. You would have known that MACK demanded top $ as well.?

 

I said pay MACK regardless of what he wanted btw. the only thing he did was, during his first game (limited practice time. But we are talking about PRACTICE) create a few sacks, force fumble and TD.

I was one of the few posters on here last year banging the drum to pay the king's ransom for Mack. I was willing to give up 2 #1's and the big contract.

 

But its apples and oranges when comparing that to Zeke. It's much harder to manufacture impact defensive plays, like sacks, than it is to produce rushing yards. Plus Mack has ZERO character issues.

 

Zeke is a great RB. But he is not worth the hassle or the money.

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, fatboy said:

Lost in all of this is that he has two years left on his contract.  It’s hard to argue his “me first” mentality.

 

I'm not sure I want Zeke, but I don't think it's selfish for an RB to try to get what he can while he can.  His shelf like is very short and RB is the worst postion on the body and brain.  It is a brutal, brutal occupation.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Rackeen305 said:

Ok, lets make things even more interesting. Were you one of the "Fans" who objected against picking up Khalil Mack when he was let go by the Raiders. You would have known that MACK demanded top $ as well.?

 

I said pay MACK regardless of what he wanted btw. the only thing he did was, during his first game (limited practice time. But we are talking about PRACTICE) create a few sacks, force fumble and TD.

 

Is this an implication that if you didn't want to pay picks and a huge contract for Mack, that you aren't a real fan?

[CanuckColt]

3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

To funny. 

That's "Too funny"

And yes, just take a pass on Zeke...way too much money for a RB.