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Character doesn’t matter??

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1 hour ago, DerekDiggler said:

Agree 100% . but I am not sure you put Zeke in that category.  He just wants to be paid better.  I can see his point.  Otherwise I think he has been a pretty good team guy.  Maybe Im wrong.  Gordon too

 

Zeke is one year too early to hold out, especially when his QB wants 40 million. He should take a pay cut because he should realize his QB needs to be paid big bucks. So that his team does good.

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12 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

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I think so.  1st. Rd. Elite all pro vs. 4th rd. aspiring all pro.  Quite a difference talent wise.

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5 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

 

I wouldn't call either starting RB for the AFC finalists last year great players, certainly not any better than Marlon Mack. Mack is a very good young player. Nyheim Hines is a very good young player as well.

 

It's easy to find RBs good enough to provide you with a respectable running game. It's far more about blocking than who is carrying the ball, IMO.

Hunt has been better than mack and its not close, he is close to being great.  hines hasnt even been good running from the backfield, he was i think third on the team in catches though 

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40 minutes ago, Myles said:

I would put him in the same category too.     But I would still take Zeke over Mack.    The gap between them is enough to warrant the risk.   

 

As you should...Zeke is a great player and it's about winning games. Many Colts fans have adopted or are starting to adopt this morally superior mindset regarding players. Let's just hope that a Colts player never threatens to hold out.

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1 minute ago, shastamasta said:

 

As you should...Zeke is a great player and it's about winning games. Many Colts fans have adopted or are starting to adopt this morally superior mindset regarding players. Let's just hope that a Colts player never threatens to hold out.

And that's a 10 million dollar gap too

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38 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

Yes he does, but at the end of the day he signed a contract and the Cowboys have a right to hold him to it, and they also have the right to decide they dont wanna sink a ton of money into a RB. 

Does that go both ways? If Zeke is wrong for wanting something different than his contract do you believe the teams should be forced to keep a player for the duration of a contract - no matter what? 

You can't have it both ways. If you want player contracts to be honored because "he signed a contract" then the teams need to honor the contracts and make them 100% guaranteed. No more cutting due to performance inside of a contract.

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2 minutes ago, CaptainColt12 said:

Zeke is one year too early to hold out, especially when his QB wants 40 million. He should take a pay cut because he should realize his QB needs to be paid big bucks. So that his team does good.

And what if he tears his achilles this year?   So the QB gets paid and he loses big time.  I don't blame him one bit.  

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Every RB and his agent know their  shelf life in the NFL.  They don’t have much bargain power no matter how good.  It takes a smart GM like Ballard who holds onto his money to pay his own players. If Cowboys can’t pay everyone too bad for them. They mismanaged.

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5 minutes ago, CaptainColt12 said:

And that's a 10 million dollar gap too

And he's been worth every penny so far. 

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1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

And what if he tears his achilles this year?   So the QB gets paid and he loses big time.  I don't blame him one bit.  

I know it's a long shot and not much other teams get players like this but the Colts. But the player shouldn't worry about the money enough to hold out from playing football.

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1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

And he's been worth every penny so far. 

RB's don't win you games. Countless times, all star RB's have been released or traded from teams and the team doesn't skip a step. Or even the RB gets hurt and then the backup plays very well for 5 games. A RB like that is not worth 10 million dollars extra. That's why I didn't want Le'veon Bell, and he didn't even have locker room issues. 

 

I think Saquon Barkley is the most talented RB in the NFL and look at the giants record last year.

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13 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

Does that go both ways? If Zeke is wrong for wanting something different than his contract do you believe the teams should be forced to keep a player for the duration of a contract - no matter what? 

You can't have it both ways. If you want player contracts to be honored because "he signed a contract" then the teams need to honor the contracts and make them 100% guaranteed. No more cutting due to performance inside of a contract.

No. They are not on equal terms here. Any company is taking a tremendous risk in giving someone that kind of money. The player is taking ZERO risk in accepting it.

 

Why should their contract be fully guaranteed? I'm not guaranteed anything in life. Why should Antonio Brown have guarantees?

 

Give me one good reason why you should be forced to pay a player his full salary, no matter what he does?

 

For example, in the NBA Gilbert Arenas and Javaris Crittendon (who is in prison for murder rn btw) brought fn guns to work and had a mexican standoff in the locker room......and Gilbert Arenas was still guaranteed his full salary upon completion of his suspension and counted against the teams salary cap afterwards because of it. 

 

That's proposterous and why anyone would support that type of system is completely out of touch with what's truly fair. There must be recourse to take in the event of a problem, and you shouldn't be guaranteed that kind of money with no responsibility to live up to on your end.

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58 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

Yes he does, but at the end of the day he signed a contract and the Cowboys have a right to hold him to it, and they also have the right to decide they dont wanna sink a ton of money into a RB. 

 

I dont think there is anything wrong with what hes doing, but I also wouldn't invest a lot of money into him for other reasons. And it is absolutely a distraction and not good for the team, which plays into all that.

 

See...fans even think he's not worth the investment...and it's not even their money. There's just a perception when it comes to RBs.

 

He did sign a rookie deal...which was negotiated before he even entered the league. One issue with his deal is that despite being a top 5 pick in the draft (and performing up to that level), he is still beholden to the 5th year option for his position...which is laughably less than other positions.  That should obviously be fixed somehow.

 

But until then, his only recourse for getting more money is to hold out. And it's not like he is the first player to do this...or even the first Cowboys RB. Emmit Smith held out as well back in '93...even two games into the season. The Cowboys finally paid him...he came back...and they won the Super Bowl that year...so I don't think it had much negative impact. You certainly hear fans say "Smith was a great RB...but dude sure lacked character because he wanted more money."

 

Both Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald held out...and ended up with massive deals. I don't recall either player receiving hate for it...probably partly because they aren't RBs.

 

I have no problem with what he's doing either. I think ulimately one side blinks and this gets done. I just take exception to fans saying someone like Zeke has a lack of character because he is holding out.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

Hunt has been better than mack and its not close, he is close to being great.  hines hasnt even been good running from the backfield, he was i think third on the team in catches though 

Hunt was suspended last year and his team got the AFC championship anyways.

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1 minute ago, shastamasta said:

 

See...fans even think he's not worth the investment...and it's not even their money. There's just a perception when it comes to RBs.

 

He did sign a rookie deal...which was negotiated before he even entered the league. One issue with his deal is that despite being a top 5 pick in the draft (and performing up to that level), he is still beholden to the 5th year option for his position...which is laughably less than other positions.  That should obviously be fixed somehow.

 

But until then, his only recourse for getting more money is to hold out. And it's not like he is the first player to do this...or even the first Cowboys RB. Emmit Smith held out as well back in '93...even two games into the season. The Cowboys finally paid him...he came back...and they won the Super Bowl that year...so I don't think it had much negative impact. 

 

Both Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald held out...and ended up with massive deals. I don't recall either player receiving hate for it...probably partly because they aren't RBs.

 

I have no problem with what he's doing either. I think ulimately one side blinks and this gets done. I just take exception to fans saying someone like Zeke has a lack of character because he is holding out.

 

 

Yes, but that was a much different league. We are talking about 26 years ago, when you could commit pass interference on every play and the running game was much more important.

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2 hours ago, aaron11 said:

i would take zeke over mack.  AB has not done anything terrible though i can see why some people dont love every move hes made.  he really just wanted out of Pittsburgh

 

i would pass on ramasy.  he also has done nothing really wrong, but his trash talk gets tiring  

Lmao I’m sorry but according to you

 

Zeke: been in trouble w the police multiple times, suspensions, currently holding out - he’s cool 

 

AB: threatens to retire from football over a helmet causing his current team to question if he’s a part of them or not - he’s cool 

 

Ramsey: Talks noise - nah that’s too far 

 

To each his own I guess 

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3 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

See...fans even think he's not worth the investment...and it's not even their money. There's just a perception when it comes to RBs.

 

He did sign a rookie deal...which was negotiated before he even entered the league. One issue with his deal is that despite being a top 5 pick in the draft (and performing up to that level), he is still beholden to the 5th year option for his position...which is laughably less than other positions.  That should obviously be fixed somehow.

 

But until then, his only recourse for getting more money is to hold out. And it's not like he is the first player to do this...or even the first Cowboys RB. Emmit Smith held out as well back in '93...even two games into the season. The Cowboys finally paid him...he came back...and they won the Super Bowl that year...so I don't think it had much negative impact. You certainly hear fans say "Smith was a great RB...but dude sure lacked character because he wanted more money."

 

Both Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald held out...and ended up with massive deals. I don't recall either player receiving hate for it...probably partly because they aren't RBs.

 

I have no problem with what he's doing either. I think ulimately one side blinks and this gets done. I just take exception to fans saying someone like Zeke has a lack of character because he is holding out.

 

 

Zeke has had several off the field issues. Jerry supported him and now Zeke is holding out early.  It ticked him off.  Zeke is thought to have character issues outside of the money grab. 

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19 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

Does that go both ways? If Zeke is wrong for wanting something different than his contract do you believe the teams should be forced to keep a player for the duration of a contract - no matter what? 

You can't have it both ways. If you want player contracts to be honored because "he signed a contract" then the teams need to honor the contracts and make them 100% guaranteed. No more cutting due to performance inside of a contract.


Well said.

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26 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think so.  1st. Rd. Elite all pro vs. 4th rd. aspiring all pro.  Quite a difference talent wise.

He averaged 20 more yards a game. That's it. They both averaged 4.7 ypc. 

 

He is not any better. More durable maybe, but not more productive on a per touch basis.

 

I'm starting to realize our fanbase is really sleeping on Marlon. Hes very good and getting better.

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1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

hes was not the only steeler that wanted out there and he hasnt quit on the raiders either

Really?

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

hes was not the only steeler that wanted out there and he hasnt quit on the raiders either

Really?

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1 minute ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Really?

Really?

yeah

 

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2 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

I'm starting to realize our fanbase is really sleeping on Marlon. Hes very good and getting better.

hes ok and might be good one day.  i have seen flashes but nothing really special yet

 

hell as a team the colts have not been higher than 20th in rushing since peyton was here.  none our backs have been that good 

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Just now, aaron11 said:

yeah

 

Well give him a few more months, he hasnt really had a chance yet, considering they havent played a single game yet. It's hard to let a team down in the Offseason but hes still managed to do it.

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6 minutes ago, NorthernBlue said:

Lmao I’m sorry but according to you

 

Zeke: been in trouble w the police multiple times, suspensions, currently holding out - he’s cool 

 

AB: threatens to retire from football over a helmet causing his current team to question if he’s a part of them or not - he’s cool 

 

Ramsey: Talks noise - nah that’s too far 

 

To each his own I guess 

zeke had a minor suspension, so what?  we have had suspended players too

 

brown is going to play

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1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

hes ok and might be good one day.  i have seen flashes but nothing really special yet

 

hell as a team the colts have not been higher than 20th in rushing since peyton was here.  none our backs have been that good 

Team rankings dont equate to a rn being good or not. Every year there are great rbs having great years and their teams still rank low in team rushing.

 

A team with a mobile QB usually ranks much higher in rushing stats than a team with a pocket passer. It doesnt mean their running game is better.

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Just now, GoatBeard said:

Team rankings dont equate to a rn being good or not. Every year there are great rbs having great years and their teams still rank low in team rushing.

 

A team with a mobile QB usually ranks much higher in rushing stats than a team with a pocket passer. It doesnt mean their running game is better.

 

yeah and macks potential  doesnt make him good yet either.  its just that right now, potential 

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2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

zeke had a minor suspension, so what?  we have had suspended players too

 

brown is going to play

Not our best players. 

 

And yes he will play, but will he distract the team from their goals. More than likely, yes.

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Just now, aaron11 said:

 

yeah and macks potential  doesnt make him good yet either.  its just that right now, potential 

He had 900 yards in 12 games and was one if the top backs in the league the second half of the season. And yes that does make him good. The fact he has more potential makes him even better.

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2 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

He had 900 yards in 12 games and was one if the top backs in the league the second half of the season. And yes that does make him good. The fact he has more potential makes him even better.

but can he keep doing it? i have not seen nearly enough to put him on the top tier yet

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9 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

Yes, but that was a much different league. We are talking about 26 years ago, when you could commit pass interference on every play and the running game was much more important.

 

Zeke is still an incredibly valuable player. What do you think elite RBs should make in today's NFL?

 

 

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Just now, shastamasta said:

 

Zeke is still an incredibly valuable player. What do you think elite RBs should make in today's NFL?

 

 

Idk, but I wouldn't pay 10+. You can get a good pass rusher like Denico Autry for that. You can get a great TE for that. You can get a very good corner for that.

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7 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

zeke had a minor suspension, so what?  we have had suspended players too

 

brown is going to play

And so is Andrew Luck. Yet this fan base freaks out and calls the team dishonest when he suffers a setback.

 

Would you not freak out if a star colt receiver wasn’t practising two weeks before the season started because of a helmet? 

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4 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

but can he keep doing it? 

Why couldnt he, besides maybe health problems? 

 

He should only get better, hes young, humble and by all accounts works hard at his craft. I dont see why not.

 

And this is puzzling because I personally think Zeke will have a much harder time continuing to produce at a high level, given his workload in college and in Dallas, than Marlon Mack will have improving going into his 3rd season, with a much lighter workload up until this point in his career vs. Zeke.

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I think the number of players who actually cause real problems for a team total about 5% of the NFL.  They are not that hard to avoid, really.  These guys have a screw loose somewhere, causing them they perceive many things as a personal slight or a lack of respect they feel they deserve.

 

High character isn't required to be a football player.  A simple "normal" personality is all that is is needed.  And even temper tantrums can be considered "normal" depending upon the situation.  

 

These guys go beyond that, IMO.

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1 hour ago, GoatBeard said:

That doesnt matter at all. You still show up and do your job because your team is depending on you. That stuff is for the offseason.

 

And as far as the Raiders.....well he didnt show up to practice yesterday because of a helmet. That to me is quitting on your team. It's just a football practice. Even if you're not gonna practice, you still show up.

 

In any business you need to be able to rely on your staff to be there. There is nothing worse than someone who cant be depended on. In football, its magnified. When you're the best/most important player on the team, it becomes an even bigger deal. 

 

Completely agree.  In the military, if someone doesn't show up or refuses to train (besides the point that obviously they will get in trouble) it affects the entire team's chemistry/camaraderie.  I don't want that person on my team because when it matters the most, it could or will get somebody killed and in this case, lose games.

 

Like you said, it is quitting on your team whether it's just practice or not.  You're still entitled to show up even if you're not practicing/training.

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Zeke has had off the field issues. Yes I would put him in the same category.

 

Yeah... go watch the Zeke and security officer in Vegas and come back on here and tell us he doesn't have character issues. I don't blame him for wanting to get paid, but he doesn't have much leverage like Bell did. He's had negotiations and they aren't good enough for him. That's a Zeke problem... 

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12 minutes ago, NorthernBlue said:

And so is Andrew Luck. Yet this fan base freaks out and calls the team dishonest when he suffers a setback.

 

Would you not freak out if a star colt receiver wasn’t practising two weeks before the season started because of a helmet? 

personally im not freaking out over what the team says about Luck.  the rule says they dont even have to say anything until week 1.  if they say he will play 100% weeks in advance and then doesnt, it wont really affect me.  people paying to go to that game have a right to be mad though 

 

as for Brown, im assuming he will play. its hard to say how i would feel as a raiders fan

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1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I think the number of players who actually cause real problems for a team total about 5% of the NFL.  They are not that hard to avoid, really.  These guys have a screw loose somewhere, causing them they perceive many things as a personal slight or a lack of respect they feel they deserve.

 

High character isn't required to be a football player.  A simple "normal" personality is all that is is needed.  And even temper tantrums can be considered "normal" depending upon the situation.  

 

These guys go beyond that, IMO.

This is exactly how I  feel about it. And I think there's a major disconnect between fans and the people who have to deal with these guys on the day to day. 

 

I would equate having one of these guys to employing a drug addict who might or might not get out of bed and come to work tomorrow. It's just not worth it because they always let you down when things get most stressful for you, which compounds the problems they cause. They just aren't equipped to handle it.

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6 minutes ago, Devildog said:

 

Completely agree.  In the military, if someone doesn't show up or refuses to train (besides the point that obviously they will get in trouble) it affects the entire team's chemistry/camaraderie.  I don't want that person on my team because when it matters the most, it could or will get somebody killed and in this case, lose games.

 

Like you said, it is quitting on your team whether it's just practice or not.  You're still entitled to show up even if you're not practicing/training.

Totally. There is a difference between acknowledging someone is really good at what they do and understanding the importance of reliability and character.

 

Character is doing things you dont want to do, because you understand other people depend on you. But in the modern world it has become "were you within your rights?". Reliability is really all there is. 

 

We need to get back to having respect for things outside our personal world. We are way too selfish as a society and it is showing up everywhere you look. 

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