Which WR's do we keep?

[EastStreet 1,462]

6 minutes ago, krunk said:

To me it will be the easiest to waive Pascal.  He's probably even got some Practice Squad eligibility in there somewhere.  I could be wrong, but I know there won't be a large demand for his services.

yup.

We can keep up to 4 players on the PS with 2 years of NFL experience (Pascal fits that).

And Pascal is a lot more likely to not be claimed by another team. And if he does, he'd struggle to make the 53 at this stage, and could end up back with us.

[DougDew 3,260]

52 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

 

It's not just about Campbell.

 

First thing, I wouldn't keep 3 Xs like we did last year. We kept 3 because talent sucked and we had injury issues there. I was a mess of musical chairs all year long at X..... And keeping only one slot and one Z hurt us long term. We ended using X at slot too much, and we had to use Rogers at Z when he got hobbled and shift an X over to slot. Just not a good situation as we saw late in the year.

 

On Campbell specifically, if he's not back by the week before our final preseason game, I'd put him on IR (return designation). That will keep him out 8 weeks, but protects him and allows for return.

 

I'd keep Fountain as a Z back-up, but also cross train him as a 3rd X. Long terms, and ideal 5 for me is TY (primary Z), Cain (primary X), Campbell (primary slot but can bounce outside as Reich suggested), Funch (co-X or possession X, and plays a lot at big/bully slot), and Fountain (back up primarily to Z and slot, but can also develop at X).

 

 

 

The other issue is the return game.  Of course, its not unheard of for a cornerback to also return punts. 

 

That's why I was thinking if any other WR showed PR/KR abilities, Rogers could be the odd man out sooner than later, provided Colts expect Campbell to be ready week 1.

[EastStreet 1,462]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

The other issue is the return game.  Of course, its not unheard of for a cornerback to also return punts. 

 

That's why I was thinking if any other WR showed PR/KR abilities, Rogers could be the odd man out sooner than later, provided Colts expect Campbell to be ready week 1.

 

I really hope we can upgrade both slot and PR. Just not sure it's wise to start the year with a new/untested PR, plus a rookie slot in Campbell, who's been out more than half of camp.

 

IMO, they need to start getting Fountain reps at Slot and/or X. His body/measurables are good enough for all three WR spots, and I like him more than Rogers, and a lot more than Pascal. He simply hasn't played either position so far.

 

I'm just not sure what to do at PR. KR is much easier than PR. I can understand them trying make a change there (KR) first. And if that trend continues, not good news for Pascal at all. If we see Fountain or even Cain start to get PR snaps, that would be bad for Roger's chances.

[krunk 11,720]

20 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

 

I really hope we can upgrade both slot and PR. Just not sure it's wise to start the year with a new/untested PR, plus a rookie slot in Campbell, who's been out more than half of camp.

 

IMO, they need to start getting Fountain reps at Slot and/or X. His body/measurables are good enough for all three WR spots, and I like him more than Rogers, and a lot more than Pascal. He simply hasn't played either position so far.

 

I'm just not sure what to do at PR. KR is much easier than PR. I can understand them trying make a change there (KR) first. And if that trend continues, not good news for Pascal at all. If we see Fountain or even Cain start to get PR snaps, that would be bad for Roger's chances.

I say Fountain or Hines at KR.  It really doesn't matter that much anymore because of all the rule changes.  Most of the kicks are going out the back of the end zone anyway.  The KR doesn't even have to be all that good anymore.  As long as the guy doesn't fumble the football away.

[aaron11 2,260]

1 hour ago, Irish YJ said:

 

That all could change, but you'd have to see several things occurring over the next couple weeks for Rogers to be cut. 1) Fountain would need to start taking reps at slot, not Z like he has. 2) Other guys getting 1st team reps at PR. or 3) Campbell comes back quickly and takes control (not likely).

i dont think your first point matters that much when it comes to the 4th-6th WRs.  they are all basically back ups and might need to fill in any of the x, y or z spots. 

 

campbell might be the first team PR too, rogers being there now still doesnt say much to me

[EastStreet 1,462]

8 minutes ago, krunk said:

I say Fountain or Hines at KR.  It really doesn't matter that much anymore because of all the rule changes.  Most of the kicks are going out the back of the end zone anyway.  The KR doesn't even have to be all that good anymore.  As long as the guy doesn't fumble the football away.

Yup. KR is easiest to replace. Not near as difficult as PR. Easier to catch, and I'd rather have a "safer" KR than PR.

[EastStreet 1,462]

5 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

i dont think your first point matters that much when it comes to the 4th-6th WRs.  they are all basically back ups and might need to fill in any of the x, y or z spots. 

 

campbell might be the first team PR too, rogers being there now still doesnt say much to me

That simply isn't true. Xs shift to "big slot" a lot in our O, so you have 2 Xs on the field a decent amount of time. And while Rogers was cross trained at Z, it killed us late in the season not having a back up at Z or back up traditional slot. When TY was hobbled, Rogers had to shift to Z, and during those snaps, we could only go "big" at slot. In short, our options at WR play calling was very limited. It's one big reason we struggled @KC.

 

WRs aren't interchangeable. All positions and sub positions have specific measurable requirements and very different route trees and skill sets. The only guys that are really capable of playing all 3 positions (from a measurable height/weight/speed) are Fountain, Cain, and Campbell, and none of those are cross trained to go from X to Z or Z or X. Funch and Pascal will never play Z or traditional slot. TY and Rogers should never play X. That leaves you with Cain, Fountain, and Campbell who are all basically in their first years, and 2 have injury questions. How much is a coach really going to put on them. And PR or KRs??

[hoosierhawk 379]

6 hours ago, aaron11 said:

he is a lock, his dead cap hit pretty much ensures it.  not likely to be traded, he was just a free agent a few months ago

 

anyone that wanted him would have signed him, rather than wait for us to do it and then trade for him 

He's dead cap whether you keep him or not. Do you keep him and his dead cap at the risk of loosing a more talented young guy?

[EastStreet 1,462]

3 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

He's dead cap whether you keep him or not. Do you keep him and his dead cap at the risk of loosing a more talented young guy?

Honestly, while it would be silly to get rid of the guy and lose the money, we're going to keep at minimum 2 Xs. Pascal has the least upside at WR of the 3 (Cain/Funch/Pascal). KR is much easier to replace than PR, so not really a compelling reason to keep Pascal. Rogers could take KRs along with PRs if needed. The only compelling reason to keep Pascal IMO is if they are not sure Cain is 100%.

[aaron11 2,260]

 

6 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

 The only guys that are really capable of playing all 3 positions (from a measurable height/weight/speed) are Fountain, Cain, and Campbell

that was the point, there is no reason Fountain could not play the slot if asked too.  he would need to learn more routes and plays so they simply ask him to do that.  it actually makes sense for a back up to be able to play more than one spot 

[aaron11 2,260]

6 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

That simply isn't true. Xs shift to "big slot" a lot in our O, so you have 2 Xs on the field a decent amount of time. And while Rogers was cross trained at Z, it killed us late in the season not having a back up at Z or back up traditional slot. When TY was hobbled, Rogers had to shift to Z, and during those snaps, we could only go "big" at slot. In short, our options at WR play calling was very limited. It's one big reason we struggled @KC.

 

WRs aren't interchangeable. All positions and sub positions have specific measurable requirements and very different route trees and skill sets. The only guys that are really capable of playing all 3 positions (from a measurable height/weight/speed) are Fountain, Cain, and Campbell, and none of those are cross trained to go from X to Z or Z or X. Funch and Pascal will never play Z or traditional slot. TY and Rogers should never play X. That leaves you with Cain, Fountain, and Campbell who are all basically in their first years, and 2 have injury questions. How much is a coach really going to put on them. And PR or KRs??

Fountain can play the slot.   i shouldn't say they are all interchangeable but we were talking about one guy here.  it makes sense for a back up to be able to play more than one spot 

[EastStreet 1,462]

2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 

that was the point, there is no reason Fountain could not play the slot if asked too.  he would need to learn more routes and plays so they simply ask him to do that.  it actually makes sense for a back up to be able to play more than one spot 

It's not as easy as you might think. It's not only about learning new routes. If you're learning X, you have to be able to beat the press. If you're learning Z, there's a ton of pre snap motion and timing. Slot requires a lot of reading the D and knowing where to settle down. Each position has it's own nuances beyond the typical routes.

 

In short, yes, but it's not something you want a newbie trying to do a month before the regular season.

[Stephen 1,745]

Hilton at pr

[Chloe6124 4,841]

We have to find a way to keep fountain. 

[Archer 1,070]

I really feel that Fountain and Cain have have locked up the #4 and #5 spots (in one order or the other).  Only question is who is #6, if we keep one...

[csmopar 8,304]

Fountain is out, broke his ankle, just now. man that sucks.

[akcolt 2,567]

25 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Fountain is out, broke his ankle, just now. man that sucks.

Say it isn’t so

[csmopar 8,304]

6 minutes ago, akcolt said:

Say it isn’t so

carted off, bad lower leg injury. He's done.

[Chloe6124 4,841]

Very sad for Reece.

 

i wonder if there is a chance hogan can make this team now over pascal if we keep 6. He has had a great camp.

[Stephen 1,745]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Very sad for Reece.

 

i wonder if there is a chance hogan can make this team now over pascal if we keep 6. He has had a great camp.

Have to wait to see who survives pre without injury

[EastStreet 1,462]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Very sad for Reece.

 

i wonder if there is a chance hogan can make this team now over pascal if we keep 6. He has had a great camp.

Johnson probably has a leg up on Hogan right now. Neither though was making a case anywhere near what Fountain was making. I do agree they might have higher ceilings than Pascal though.

[Chloe6124 4,841]

Did anyone notice today Reece was getting first team reps before he went down. I feel so awful for him.

[EastStreet 1,462]

52 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Did anyone notice today Reece was getting first team reps before he went down. I feel so awful for him.

Yep. Both Cain and Reece were getting 1st team reps IIRC.  So sad.

[EastStreet 1,462]

With the event of today, I think it's 

 

X (traditional) - Cain

X (possession) and big/bully slot hybid - Funch

Slot - Rogers

Slot/Z hybrid - Campbell

Z - Hilton

 

That's a pretty lethal 5 if Campbell can get healthy.

 

Wildcards are Pascal/Johnson/Hogan for a possible 6th spot.

[Jdubu 1,018]

8 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

With the event of today, I think it's 

 

X (traditional) - Cain

X (possession) and big/bully slot hybid - Funch

Slot - Rogers

Slot/Z hybrid - Campbell

Z - Hilton

 

That's a pretty lethal 5 if Campbell can get healthy.

 

Wildcards are Pascal/Johnson/Hogan for a possible 6th spot.

We really haven’t heard much from the Johnson camp this year since a lot of it has seemed to revolve around Fountain/Cain progress. I absolutely loved the potential we seen last season in a very limited view of Johnson though and would love to see him rise from this loss. He had size and speed so I hope he steps up and fights for that 5th or maybe 6th spot. 

 

Sucks horribly for Fountain, man was he showing skills! Hope he can get back strong for next season or possibly late quarter of the year. 

[Chloe6124 4,841]

Did Reece suffer the same injury Beckham had.

 

 

[coltsfeva 1,282]

  With Fountain out, I could see TY, Funchess, Campbell, Cain as locks.

  Unless Rogers is replaced by Hines or another player who is dependable and shows a little more “big play” potential, Rogers makes the 53.

   That leaves one spot for WR which Pascal, Johnson or Hogan may take for now.

    The need to (possibly) have to carry 3 QBs affects the equation.

     Fountain could also be placed on the “designated to return” list.

[EastStreet 1,462]

3 hours ago, Jdubu said:

We really haven’t heard much from the Johnson camp this year since a lot of it has seemed to revolve around Fountain/Cain progress. I absolutely loved the potential we seen last season in a very limited view of Johnson though and would love to see him rise from this loss. He had size and speed so I hope he steps up and fights for that 5th or maybe 6th spot. 

 

Sucks horribly for Fountain, man was he showing skills! Hope he can get back strong for next season or possibly late quarter of the year. 

Johnson had a few good grabs last week vs the Bills. It's going to be interesting if they look for 3rd X.

[BigQungus 188]

2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Did Reece suffer the same injury Beckham had.

 

 

 

Surprised he got attention from Odell. He's a fifth rounder from last year, I didn't think anyone but Colts fans knew about him, unless they've really been paying attention to the hype he's been having. I think with Fountain injured we may just stick with 5 WRs

[Chloe6124 4,841]

12 minutes ago, BigQungus said:

 

Surprised he got attention from Odell. He's a fifth rounder from last year, I didn't think anyone but Colts fans knew about him, unless they've really been paying attention to the hype he's been having. I think with Fountain injured we may just stick with 5 WRs

Odell was at practice when that happened. He saw the entire thing.

[BigQungus 188]

2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Odell was at practice when that happened. He saw the entire thing.

 

Ohhhh, oh right I forgot about that

[jameszeigler834 1,420]

Well with Fountain done for the season Pascal or Rogers gets the last spot now I think.

[CanuckColt 830]

4 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Well with Fountain done for the season Pascal or Rogers gets the last spot now I think.

I guess we have to settle for "just a guy" at the last WR spot.

 

[jameszeigler834 1,420]

14 hours ago, CanuckColt said:

I guess we have to settle for "just a guy" at the last WR spot.

 

Possibly or we will find another diamond in the rough.

[Chloe6124 4,841]

Reece had surgery yesterday. Looks like Deon Cain was there to support him. Anyway Reece is out riding a scooter with his leg up today. That kid has such a great attitude.

[Chloe6124 4,841]

14 hours ago, CanuckColt said:

I guess we have to settle for "just a guy" at the last WR spot.

 

Isn’t that 5th spot on most teams just a guy. Unless that guy is a young guy on a rookie contact I guess. You do need like pascal and Rogers who do the dirty work and make you a more rounded team.

[holeymoley99 63]

Hogan has jumped Johnson IMO, question is do we keep only 5 and if so Rogers or Hogan or Pascal ? Hilton and Funchess are 1-2. Cain close behind at 3 and expect him to play a lot early and Campbell isnt going anywhere.

 

Hogan has most upside compared to the other two.

[GoColts8818 8,909]

I think it might just be Hilton, Funchess, Campbell, Rodgers, and Cain with Fountain on IR.  

 

I think they are going to want to keep Milton for special teams and they have so many good tightends I think cutting it down to four might be hard.  Add in the fact they will probably have to keep a third QB to start and Hines is pretty much a WR at RB and there might not be room for a sixth WR on the roster.

[Chloe6124 4,841]

24 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think it might just be Hilton, Funchess, Campbell, Rodgers, and Cain with Fountain on IR.  

 

I think they are going to want to keep Milton for special teams and they have so many good tightends I think cutting it down to four might be hard.  Add in the fact they will probably have to keep a third QB to start and Hines is pretty much a WR at RB and there might not be room for a sixth WR on the roster.

Will be interesting how important they think pascals blocking and ST abilities are.  He will be the sixth if they keep six.

[GoColts8818 8,909]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Will be interesting how important they think pascals blocking and ST abilities are.  He will be the sixth if they keep six.

 

I’d agree with that.  Like I said who you play with in the pre-season matters and Pascal is still playing with the ones while the other guys he’s competing with, except for Cain (who I think is well ahead of him right now), aren’t.  So right now I think he has the edge if the Colts keep six.  

 

Something else to remember is Campbell’s injuries might force them to keep another WR as well.