NFLN replaying Colts/Bills at 2 AM EST

[jmac_48]

Just a FYI if you are brave enough to watch again...

It wasn't pretty!

[WoolMagnet]

I stayed up to watch it.

i should have went to sleep and checked the dvr later....... like MUCH later.....: if ever.  Haha

maybe i would have been lucky and the dvr "forgot" to record it.

 

[EastStreet]

7 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

I stayed up to watch it.

i should have went to sleep and checked the dvr later....... like MUCH later.....: if ever.  Haha

maybe i would have been lucky and the dvr "forgot" to record it.

 

i streamed it last night and my stream was awful, so rewatching it now. 

the O is pretty painful to watch with the first 2 QBs. waiting to see Kelly lol.

after watching it and having the ability to slow motion and rewind, i'm less happy with the D than i was originally.

 

 

[jmac_48]

What's killing me is listening to the Homer announcers.

 

Both O and D Lines getting beat regularly.

[WoolMagnet]

Not much good to take a ay from this.  Maybe ballard and the coaches see more than i do.

But i didnt really see anything to be excited about.  I will give it time tho, trust there is a plan.  But i'm pretty sure this demonstration wasnt in that plan.

 We look small on defense too.  That could explain blue jerseys going backward every play too.

  I'm trying to not be disappointed, but i at least expected our team to look like the better, more physical, and better coached team on the field.  In this game, we fell short in all areas.  

Back to choppin wood and building the monster i guess.

[EastStreet]

My thoughts on the re-watch

 

Interesting tid bits from the announcers

1. Said a big reason Chad Kelly got the opportunity with the Colts, was because of Reich/Jim Kelly relationship.

2. They talked about a conversation with Reich where Reich stated that a lot of their 2 minute O was K-gun like. That's the offense Jim Kelly / Reich ran in Buffalo back in the day, and very similar to what Manning used a lot. Hope we see it more on non-2 minute situations.

 

Things that did not make sense to me.

1) Why use Hines in your first series as the every down back. He's your all purpose back. If in a game situation, and Mack is out, Wilkins would be your sub as the every down back. And why come out and prioritize running in the first couple series with an APB. Just throw it as you have far more questions at WR than RB.

2) Why use Rogers and Pascal on so many of the PR and KR opps if you're looking to see what new guys can do. You barely used them at WR in this game, why so much at returns? We know full what we have in both.

3) The playbook opened up a bit later in the game. Wouldn't you want your first team/series guys getting the more complex plays.

 

Individual and team comments

1. Walker (QB) needs to be demoted behind Kelly. He did a little better once he settled down, but he's simply not that good. Our WRs that are competing need better quality targets. 

2) Staying on QBs, Kelly served up better passes, and simply looks more capable of moving the chains better than Walker or Brissett. I know he was going against worse talent, but he also had worse talent on his side. He's got a better arm, and better legs.

3) On the WRs in general. I felt sorry for them a bit before Kelly came in. A lot of bad, and badly timed passes. Walker had one nice toss to Johnson, but it seemed more luck than intentional precision. 

4) Fountain definitely was the best WR on the night. Cain looked good with limited targets, and almost came down with a strongly contested and not so good pass in the end zone. Johnson did well at times but did not look as crisp in his routes as others. Hogan had a flash but didn't seem to get as much separation as others. Hard to judge Funch on the early catches. One was wide open and short, the other a bit behind him.

5) The OL didn't impress me early or late.... They seemed a bit more together late, but I think it might have more to do with Kelly running a more efficient O.

6) The DL went backwards way too much. Phillips was the only bright spot.

7). At LB (rooks), Speed stole the show. Made some mistakes, but they were mistakes that can be cleaned up. Okereke had some good snaps, but also got a bit manhandled on a few.

8) DB (rooks) was inconsistent overall. Saw way too many Bill WRs and TEs open. Rock look a lot more good than bad when in. Willis had a lot of effort, looked good at times, but also struggled on several plays. Good starts to both though.

9) AWare had some good runs late in the game. Williams didn't look bad either, especially with some nice catches.

10) Dulin looked decent on the return. Very strange that they'd give the guy return reps, but only 2 snaps at WR. 

 

[jmac_48]

Actually, I am not as disappointed as I was after watching last night.

Considering who we had out there from the get-go I can see how it went.

We have more depth, but it may take some time to pay off.

 

 Hope we put on a better show for  the home folks next week!

[jmac_48]

17 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

My thoughts on the re-watch

 

 

Good analysis, Thanks.

[Caffrey]

My observations.

 

I watched the game while doing my homework so I may have missed some things, but did stop sometimes and replayed some plays.

 

1 . Khari Willis - some may not agree with this because I seen positive comments about his play on another post.  However, I seen in seen him in the first quarter.  I see him tackle/made contact on a Frank Gore run, made contact after about a 3 yd gain, was drove back another 2 yds for a 5 yd  gain.  The next play the blocker similarly pushed him back.  Thats all I seen of him but expected more physicality from our rookie strong safety.

 

2.  Fountain had real nice game, outplayed Cain.  I read Cain has drops in practice and had them in this game.  He needs to step up soon for his sake. I Fountain continues with his 2nd yr improvement/jump, he may make it, or at least the practice squad again.

 

3.  DT Grover Stewart held his own and we need him as our primary big body.  Watch those offside thought.

 

4.  Why Hines started the game at RB.  Wilkins maybe should have started and I like him and think he does not get the respect he is due.  Williams had a decent game.  Hines should come in as a spot player.

 

5.  LB Speed looked decent.  His head to head penalty was the correct call.

 

6. On Buffalo's 65 yd TD run by the Rugby player.  LDE Phillips who had a good game, was playing a purely outside pass rush but still could have made the tackle if he did not only focus on the QB, after he realized the RB had the ball, it was too late.  LB Speed over pursued inside and the blocker was able to seal him of.  #36 Safety Derrick Kindred, the last line of defense on the long run.  I did not know who he was and had look up #36.  Anyway he looked to have taken a bad angle to stop it at a 20 yd gain instead of a 65 yd TD run.  The RB had good speed and that was probably a factor. 

 

7.  Did not notice CB Rok but may have to replay the game to check him out.

 

Anyway that's may takeaways of the game.  

[CoachLite]

I found it hard to evaluate individual performance in the context of "uncoordinated" team play on both sides of the ball. Some overplayed, some underplayed their positions. Communication didn't seem very good. I suppose that was to be expected for a first preseason game, but still ...

[King Colt]

I saw the 1 AM time slot and recalled the past couple years how the Colts preseason replays were among the scarcest on the line up. Some teams were replayed numerous times throughout the week during the days and early nights while the Colts were aired at 3 & 4 AM once per week. If it weren't for Manning & Luck the Colts would be last in air time. For some  reason the Colts have never been media darlings and as long a Dallas & NE exist it will stay that way. This despite several media types say the Colts will be in the Super Bowl this year.

[Timo1]

Wow unless you're a coach or scout why bother. You couldn't pay me to watch any preseason game. When i had season tickets i tried to sell every preseason game i had for any amount i could get. No one ever bought any of them. I can't believe people pay money to watch these games. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Wilkins is hurt. He did not play. They are trying to find out the best way to take care of his ankle. Sounds like it could be serious.

[CanuckColt]

19 hours ago, jmac_48 said:

Just a FYI if you are brave enough to watch again...

It wasn't pretty!

Yeah, I recorded it and played it back.  The 4th quarter was pretty good, watching Kelly running all over the field and throwing bullets, and Fountain making same plays and one great grab. The bootleg  TD run by Kelly was fun to watch...it made Jim and his other relatives in the stands happy.

[CanuckColt]

16 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

My thoughts on the re-watch

....

Things that did not make sense to me.

1) Why use Hines in your first series as the every down back.

...

2) Why use Rogers and Pascal on so many of the PR and KR opps ..

Individual and team comments

1. Walker (QB) needs to be demoted behind Kelly. He did a little better once he settled down, but he's simply not that good. Our WRs that are competing need better quality targets. 

2) Staying on QBs, Kelly served up better passes, and simply looks more capable of moving the chains better than Walker or Brissett.

....

3) On the WRs in general. I felt sorry for them a bit before Kelly came in. A lot of bad, and badly timed passes. ..

....

4) Fountain definitely was the best WR on the night.

...

 

 

This may be heresy, but why are we keeping Hines at all?

He is marginal as a RB (Sproles he will never be).  His best value to the team would be KR/PR. Then we could dump the pseudo-WRs and keep the real WRs...TY, Funch, Fountain, Cain, Campbell (we probably only keep 5).

As for QB, Kelly is probably the most talented QB among Brissett, Kelly, Walker...and the most effective in a real game.

 

[CanuckColt]

12 hours ago, King Colt said:

I saw the 1 AM time slot and recalled the past couple years how the Colts preseason replays were among the scarcest on the line up. Some teams were replayed numerous times throughout the week during the days and early nights while the Colts were aired at 3 & 4 AM once per week. If it weren't for Manning & Luck the Colts would be last in air time. For some  reason the Colts have never been media darlings and as long a Dallas & NE exist it will stay that way. This despite several media types say the Colts will be in the Super Bowl this year.

The only way the Colts are going to the Super Bowl this year is if they all buy tickets to the game and watch it from the stands........maybe next year.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

38 minutes ago, CanuckColt said:

This may be heresy, but why are we keeping Hines at all?

He is marginal as a RB (Sproles he will never be).  His best value to the team would be KR/PR. Then we could dump the pseudo-WRs and keep the real WRs...TY, Funch, Fountain, Cain, Campbell (we probably only keep 5).

As for QB, Kelly is probably the most talented QB among Brissett, Kelly, Walker...and the most effective in a real game.

 

Is this a serious question. Look at his stats from last year. He has had a great camp. The oline has more to do with the run game Thursday then anything. 

[EastStreet]

56 minutes ago, CanuckColt said:

This may be heresy, but why are we keeping Hines at all?

He is marginal as a RB (Sproles he will never be).  His best value to the team would be KR/PR. Then we could dump the pseudo-WRs and keep the real WRs...TY, Funch, Fountain, Cain, Campbell (we probably only keep 5).

As for QB, Kelly is probably the most talented QB among Brissett, Kelly, Walker...and the most effective in a real game.

 

I don't know about heresy, but it's pretty silly. Hines is not an every down back, and was not drafted to be. He's an all purpose or 3rd down back. He was only a couple receptions shy of the Colts rookie receptions record. Almost 750 all purpose yards.

 

The most impressive part of that, is he was not a part of the planned "scheme" last year. He was thrust into rushing because Mack was out early. He became receiving threat because of the mediocre group of X WRs we had. All that from what was really a plan C, D, or E.... In short, but accident. 

 

Keep in mind he was WR his frosh year in college that was moved to RB out of necessity. He's a good route runner, and has speed. Had he not dropped a few, he would have broken the rookie record. He may not get as many yards this year with all the upgrades at WR, but he should be a more planned part of the O, and just that should make the O more potent. And I'd love to see him learn and refine his return game. He's got jets.

 

I fully agree on Kelly. On pre-season game does not make second string QB, but he was easily the best QB for the Colts this week. Hope he moves up a spot this Saturday, and is the second QB out there.

[King Colt]

11 hours ago, CanuckColt said:

The only way the Colts are going to the Super Bowl this year is if they all buy tickets to the game and watch it from the stands........maybe next year.

 

You may be right but I would not bet money on it.

[aaron11]

dont think i would rewatch that, the game was straight up terrible tbh

 

the final score didnt look bad thanks to kellys garbage time run at least

[ColtStrong2013]

On 8/10/2019 at 5:07 AM, Irish YJ said:

Why use Hines in your first series as the every down back

 

For evaluation purposes. Don't think for one minute they aren't wanting to see if Hines can handle it if Mack goes down... Hines is a player and a consummate pro per the reports in training camp on his work ethic. 

 

On 8/10/2019 at 5:07 AM, Irish YJ said:

The DL went backwards way too much. Phillips was the only bright spot

 

You watched a different game than I did if you think Grover Stewart wasn't a bright spot... 

[EastStreet]

8 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

For evaluation purposes. Don't think for one minute they aren't wanting to see if Hines can handle it if Mack goes down... Hines is a player and a consummate pro per the reports in training camp on his work ethic. 

We pretty much know what we have in Hines. He wouldn't be Mack's replacement if he went down. Wilkins and Williams are the every down backs. Hines is a change of pace or all purpose back.

 

Quote

You watched a different game than I did if you think Grover Stewart wasn't a bright spot... 

 

Grover was indeed a bright spot, but he's only one guy, and he was only out there on half the defensive snaps. Phillips had some flashes in the 40% of the snaps he had. The rest of the DL was pretty meh. Turay was very very meh. And overall, aside from Grover and an occasional flash from Phillips, not impressed.

 

[ColtStrong2013]

52 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

We pretty much know what we have in Hines. He wouldn't be Mack's replacement if he went down.

 

I didn't say he would be... What I said was that they were putting him in there to evaluate and see if he could be. There's a tremendous difference. And if you think that Frank Reich and Ballard think the same as you and I in terms of personnel, you are dreaming... He's a brilliant offensive mind that sees players differently. For versatility purposes, Hines HAS to be able to run the ball on any given down, or else he is limited in personnel groupings. They not only want to see him run the ball this preseason, they want other teams to see him run the ball well. Good luck gameplanning against that if we can establish him running the ball well... and he can, the offensive line just has to play better than garbage. 

 

56 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

The rest of the DL was pretty meh. Turay was very very meh. And overall, aside from Grover and an occasional flash from Phillips, not impressed.

 

The rest of that D-line is rotational pieces at best, if even on the roster. So there's that. Autry, Houston, our main defensive veteran players, sat in this one. Sheard is obviously out for a minute, but will make a tremendous difference. I'm not worried about this defensive line after that preseason game. At all. 

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

I didn't say he would be... What I said was that they were putting him in there to evaluate and see if he could be. There's a tremendous difference. And if you think that Frank Reich and Ballard think the same as you and I in terms of personnel, you are dreaming... He's a brilliant offensive mind that sees players differently. For versatility purposes, Hines HAS to be able to run the ball on any given down, or else he is limited in personnel groupings. They not only want to see him run the ball this preseason, they want other teams to see him run the ball well. Good luck gameplanning against that if we can establish him running the ball well... and he can, the offensive line just has to play better than garbage. 

 

I disagree, and that's OK. Hines is a situational player. Hines doesn't have to be able to run the ball on any given down and distance. I sure in the hell don't want him running up the middle on short yardage on goal line situations. I'm fine with an end run on first, but he's not a guy you want busting through the middle on typical downs. He's just not that guy.

 

Quote

The rest of that D-line is rotational pieces at best, if even on the roster. So there's that. Autry, Houston, our main defensive veteran players, sat in this one. Sheard is obviously out for a minute, but will make a tremendous difference. I'm not worried about this defensive line after that preseason game. At all.

 

On the DL, I'm looking at it mostly in terms of evaluating depth and sub packages. Lewis was in about half the snaps, and was average. Turay was in for about half the snaps and was worse than average. Ward close to half the snaps and very average. Phillips at 40% had some bright spots. Muhammad at around 40% was up and down. 

 

No panic at this point, just had higher expectations of the depth vs Buffalo's depth. 

 

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, Irish YJ said:

I disagree, and that's OK. Hines is a situational player. Hines doesn't have to be able to run the ball on any given down and distance. I sure in the hell don't want him running up the middle on short yardage on goal line situations. I'm fine with an end run on first, but he's not a guy you want busting through the middle on typical downs. He's just not that guy

 

We don't know what Hines is yet... he may be nothing more than situational. He might be more permanent. If they can work him in a slot position and he can run the ball in any situation (aside from goal line, lol) then defensive coordinators heads will spin not knowing what personnel is on the field at any given time. There could be two runningbacks... or one, there could be 3 tight ends, they could spread them all out and have mismatches across the board. I think this is the vision of Frank Reich and Chris Ballard on offense... I could be very wrong. 

 

1 hour ago, Irish YJ said:

Lewis was in about half the snaps, and was average. Turay was in for about half the snaps and was worse than average. Ward close to half the snaps and very average. Phillips at 40% had some bright spots. Muhammad at around 40% was up and down. 

 

Those guys are 24, 24, 25, 26, 24 years old respectively. We need to keep that in mind when we talk about when they grade average or below in our first impressions. These guys are good. Much better than what we have had in recent years. And they are learning under true vets that practice and play the right way. We will continue to see consistent growth. 

[EastStreet]

38 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

We don't know what Hines is yet... he may be nothing more than situational. He might be more permanent. If they can work him in a slot position and he can run the ball in any situation (aside from goal line, lol) then defensive coordinators heads will spin not knowing what personnel is on the field at any given time. There could be two runningbacks... or one, there could be 3 tight ends, they could spread them all out and have mismatches across the board. I think this is the vision of Frank Reich and Chris Ballard on offense... I could be very wrong. 

 

I'm not sure if you're familiar with Hines' college history, but given that, and given his size, we can safely assume what he is. He doesn't have the size to be an every down back, and doesn't have the power to be the guy between the tackles. Sure he could gain weight, but that's not often heard of in the NFL at RB. RBs have the shortest lifespan of most if not all positions, and although not unheard of, it's rare to see someone "develop" from a small APB to an EDRB.

 

Feel free to disagree, but I'm sure if you google his draft or combine reviews, they will say the same. 

 

Quote

Those guys are 24, 24, 25, 26, 24 years old respectively. We need to keep that in mind when we talk about when they grade average or below in our first impressions. These guys are good. Much better than what we have had in recent years. And they are learning under true vets that practice and play the right way. We will continue to see consistent growth. 

 

I'm not writing them off. And yes, the depth is stronger than years past. That doesn't mean that they are all good. Doesn't mean they're all bad either. It just means they didn't perform very well against the Bills's similar depth. Can Turay improve? Sure. But he looked pretty bad at times, and it simply is what it is.

[CanuckColt]

2 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

We don't know what Hines is yet... he may be nothing more than situational. He might be more permanent. If they can work him in a slot position ...

...

It's true that we don't know what Hines is yet. Trying him as a slot WR who runs some gadget plays could work.  We could really use him as the PR/KR guy with his track speed. This would allow keeping our good young WRs and getting rid of the mediocre WRs who hang around because they play special teams.

[lollygagger8]

It was hard enough to watch the first time, but thanks! 

[DEColtsLover36]

I give credit to all of you who were brave enough to watch a replay of a game that you knew we would lose (albeit just a preseason game); especially with the lopsided scoring throughout. Maybe one day I will gather up the courage... but for this one, just couldn’t bring myself to do it! 

[jvan1973]

On 8/10/2019 at 9:56 PM, CanuckColt said:

This may be heresy, but why are we keeping Hines at all?

He is marginal as a RB (Sproles he will never be).  His best value to the team would be KR/PR. Then we could dump the pseudo-WRs and keep the real WRs...TY, Funch, Fountain, Cain, Campbell (we probably only keep 5).

As for QB, Kelly is probably the most talented QB among Brissett, Kelly, Walker...and the most effective in a real game.

 

Kelly has never played in a real game

[horseshoecrabs]

Folks ! it's pre season, don't over analyze everything. The A game is never going to materialize in the preseason, if it did then I would be concerned, lol