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Vanilla Play Calling


Scott Pennock

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2 hours ago, egg said:

 

O-line is the problem. Yes.

 

But this is very troubling to me. Three of the starters did play? I assume.

 

Hines had 6 carries for one yard. I don't care if it is the 1st pre-season game.  And I don't care if Buf. has a good D-line. This is very concerning. 

 

 

 

It’s only concerning if they continue to give him the ball or try to force the issue...I just don’t think he’s a good RB. Pass catcher...sure...but not runner.

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2 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

The level of cluelessness is high in this post.....so since you've taken the opportunity to personally insult me, explain to me why I am clueless.

 

Hasn't pretty all the responses in the thread done that already?

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Just now, shastamasta said:

 

It’s only concerning if they continue to give him the ball or try to force the issue...I just don’t think he’s a good RB. Pass catcher...sure...but not runner.

 

I don't care who the back is. If you are getting tackled behind the line, it's a problem of the O-line.

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8 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 How about we talk about how well Q and Smith looked. They got beat repeatedly didn't they? Glow was just ok doing his job. When these guys failed it killed us.
 This is a big reason why we looked bad.
 Buffalo has good defensive talent and they BEAT our best guys. Yes, it is going to take ALL our Horses to compete against the best.

We definitely need AC and Kelly.  We don't have backups that compare to their talent. 

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38 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think when you see the patriots have 350 yards with two back up qb that doesn’t sound vanilla and we just want to get the guys mentally sharp. The browns looked good also. 

 

Do you think the Pats ran a bunch of plays that they will run in the regular season?

 

The ENTIRE NFL intentionally tries not to show too much in games that don't count.  

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35 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I don’t think Q Looked that good.

 

 

He looked pretty good to me. Granted this is only 3 plays & I didn't watch the game because preseason games are just awful, but I'm guessing there aren't many guards that are gonna stand  Ed Oliver up consistently.

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5 hours ago, Myles said:

Seems to be smart coaching to me.   

These "vanilla" plays will be used allot throughout the season.  Every team runs them over 3/4 of the time.   Since it is the 1st preseason game, run them allot so that you have info for practice.   

 

I played for a top notch coach in high school when film was starting to be more accessible and most teams had it. It was a rule (written or unwritten im not sure) that you traded one game film with an upcoming opponent. The first game of the season got our main scrimmage tape. Our coach religiously ran the same base defense all scrimage and was very vanilla on offense. Enough to evaluate and make adjustments before week 1, but we didn't show a single thing. We also held onto special plays or special team specifics until late in the season or preferably playoff time. Those little details made him a special coach and ended with a hell of a career in a basketball town.

 

The same principals apply here. 

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3 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

The level of cluelessness is high in this post.....so since you've taken the opportunity to personally insult me, explain to me why I am clueless.

 

Scott.....

 

You're not just a good poster,  I think of you as one of the best posters....

 

And I don't understand your post at all.     This isn't a Colts problem,  all 32 teams do this.   Everyone plays vanilla.

 

Vanilla on offense,  on defense, heck, even on special teams.    And they've been doing this for as long as I can remember.    This isn't something new.     Why would this bother you or anyone else?  

 

Look at the whole thread,  poster after poster explaining to you why you're position is...   curious at best.    Not just the posters who responded to you directly,  but also posters who just responded in the thread.     Most everyone is saying the same thing.    This is what happens in the pre-season.    Always has.   Always will.

 

Scott...   you're a top poster.....    but this one is....    a head scratcher... 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Look how bad the big Q Looked.

 

 

 

It's the pre-season....    he's being taught new techniques to use by our new O-line coaches.

 

Please give him the entire pre-season to pick-up these techniques.    Learning these takes time.  

 

And please stop comparing the Colts to any other team right now....    it's the pre-season.      They're vanilla too.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Superman said:

Have you guys never watched a preseason game before?

This is the comment that (to me ) that ends this dispute .Are we happy no not entirely…….BUT IT IS THE FIRST PRE-SEASON GAME ……..I have a family full of Giants fans who are complaining about their game last night …….and the Giants WON last night and what am I telling my family members ?????......IT IS THE FIRST PRE-SEASON GAME !!!!!!!

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41 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

It's the pre-season....    he's being taught new techniques to use by our new O-line coaches.

 

Please give him the entire pre-season to pick-up these techniques.    Learning these takes time.  

 

And please stop comparing the Colts to any other team right now....    it's the pre-season.      They're vanilla too.

 

 

That post is sarcastic....nelson did alright it wasn't like he missed him or something

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3 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

I'm outraged we didn't look like a SB contender in the 1st preseason game. Fire and trade everybody before its too late.

 

I recognize the levity but lets not forget the game yesterday was played by two NFL teams with NFL players trying their hardest to succeed individually and inside the team framework and one team looked better than the other.

 

Its not fair to say this game/preseason doesn't matter for anything other than evaluation and then ignore the fact that the Bills team was doing the same thing (evaluating their players) and they looked like the better team. What does that say about player preparation, quality of depth, talent, experience, etc? Thats up for each person to decide but I dont think its fair to discount people who put more stock in that than you or others do.

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3 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

 

I recognize the levity but lets not forget the game yesterday was played by two NFL teams with NFL players trying their hardest to succeed individually and inside the team framework and one team looked better than the other.

 

Its not fair to say this game/preseason doesn't matter for anything other than evaluation and then ignore the fact that the Bills team was doing the same thing (evaluating their players) and they looked like the better team. What does that say about player preparation, quality of depth, talent, experience, etc? Thats up for each person to decide but I dont think its fair to discount people who put more stock in that than you or others do.

Not to mention the colts haven’t won a opening game in years and are slow starters.

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15 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

Bugs the crap out of me. You have your first stringers out there, execute non-vanilla plays for crying out loud.

 

I'm not advocating breaking out year two wrinkles but what's wrong with plays that we ran last year that are already on tape.

 

How can they possibly evaluate game day tape with 76 3 and outs......?

Hey Scott, Just a few thoughts:

1). 7 out of 11 actual starting first team players were not suited up last night, which may explain the 3-and-outs, and the horrible offensive performance.

 

2). You are a knowledgeable poster, and you already know this, but the pre-season is for evaluating players. It can be difficult to evaluate them with so many 3-and-outs, but it's really up to the players to execute the vanilla plays, and they didn't. They could not get the run game going at all.

 

3. The vanilla play calling had a lot to do (IMO) with Reich wanting to establish the run game. That seems to be a main focus, and it's a work-in-progress. However, it was the exact opposite with the Bills who threw the ball nearly every play with Josh Allen, because that was their team's focus -- give their young QB live looks against another defense.

 

4. To those who are saying you don't want to tip your hand in the preseason with plays that you would use in the regular season, I think this ranks really low as a rationale. As you mentioned, the Colts could use plays that are already on tape from last year. Other teams already have 16+ game tapes to review our plays under Reich. I'm sure they're not dying to watch what we do in the pre-season. The greater reason (IMO) is that during the preseason you have so many new players (draftees, undrafted players, FA's) that you have to start with the basic plays. That's all they've learned so far. They will build on their knowledge as the preseason wears on, and they will add to their playbook.

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Look how bad the big Q Looked.

 

 

One play.... are you 100% perfect in everything you do? I think not.  Now lets look at the next 3 plays..

 

 

1 hour ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

 

He looked pretty good to me. Granted this is only 3 plays & I didn't watch the game because preseason games are just awful, but I'm guessing there aren't many guards that are gonna stand  Ed Oliver up consistently.

yep and he's doing that 1 on 1. with extra room for Oliver because of the crappy C we had in there and lets face it Clark sucks at LT.  That is one thing I will fault Ballard on, we HAVE to upgrade that next offseason, maybe both T spots.

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2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Look how bad the big Q Looked.

 

 

Am I missing something or looking at the wrong guy?  I see Big Q hold his guy up on this play.  The problem was JB was focused on his checkdown receiver to the right while the slot receiver crosses the linebacker's face right in front of JB and is wide open in the middle of the field.

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I just looked this up....      so I'll leave it here for anyone to read....    cutting and pasting...

 

Perhaps some food for thought for some here....

 

 

-- The 1982 Redskins are the only team to have won a Super Bowl after going winless in the preseason.

 

-- Both the 1990 Buffalo Bills and the 2000 New York Giants made the super bowl after going winless in the preseason, although both lost.

 

-- In 2008 the Lions won all their preseason games but proceeded to go 0-16 in the regular season.

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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Scott.....

 

You're not just a good poster,  I think of you as one of the best posters....

 

And I don't understand your post at all.     This isn't a Colts problem,  all 32 teams do this.   Everyone plays vanilla.

 

Vanilla on offense,  on defense, heck, even on special teams.    And they've been doing this for as long as I can remember.    This isn't something new.     Why would this bother you or anyone else?  

 

Look at the whole thread,  poster after poster explaining to you why you're position is...   curious at best.    Not just the posters who responded to you directly,  but also posters who just responded in the thread.     Most everyone is saying the same thing.    This is what happens in the pre-season.    Always has.   Always will.

 

Scott...   you're a top poster.....    but this one is....    a head scratcher... 

 

 

Thanks for the kudos.

 

However, not every team plays bland, vanilla in the preseason....the Bills certainly didn't, and it showed. They played wide open on offense and even sent blitz packages.

 

I know what the coach says, but why play vanilla when all those plays are already on film. Run your plays and see how these guys play against someone else.....instead of going 3 and out like 10 straight times. How does that help you evaluate your WRs or TEs in the passing game?

 

I figured this would open up discussion and dialogue, not a "if you don't like it don't watch" witch hunt....

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44 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

Hey Scott, Just a few thoughts:

1). 7 out of 11 actual starting first team players were not suited up last night, which may explain the 3-and-outs, and the horrible offensive performance.

 

2). You are a knowledgeable poster, and you already know this, but the pre-season is for evaluating players. It can be difficult to evaluate them with so many 3-and-outs, but it's really up to the players to execute the vanilla plays, and they didn't. They could not get the run game going at all.

 

3. The vanilla play calling had a lot to do (IMO) with Reich wanting to establish the run game. That seems to be a main focus, and it's a work-in-progress. However, it was the exact opposite with the Bills who threw the ball nearly every play with Josh Allen, because that was their team's focus -- give their young QB live looks against another defense.

 

4. To those who are saying you don't want to tip your hand in the preseason with plays that you would use in the regular season, I think this ranks really low as a rationale. As you mentioned, the Colts could use plays that are already on tape from last year. Other teams already have 16+ game tapes to review our plays under Reich. I'm sure they're not dying to watch what we do in the pre-season. The greater reason (IMO) is that during the preseason you have so many new players (draftees, undrafted players, FA's) that you have to start with the basic plays. That's all they've learned so far. They will build on their knowledge as the preseason wears on, and they will add to their playbook.

Thank you for providing rational feedback!

 

All of your points are valid as well.

 

How are they supposed to fairly evaluate the WRs (for example) when the failed attempts at running into brick walls didn't work.

 

I dunno.....line up Pascal, Cain, Fountain, Rogers and Funchess and run some actual plays against their number 1's and see if they can get themselves open and make plays consistently.....

 

 

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16 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

Bugs the crap out of me. You have your first stringers out there, execute non-vanilla plays for crying out loud.

 

I'm not advocating breaking out year two wrinkles but what's wrong with plays that we ran last year that are already on tape.

 

How can they possibly evaluate game day tape with 76 3 and outs......?

 

1. The entire league does it.  EVERYONE tries to not show anything serious in the preseason.  There must be something there if 32 of 32 teams do it.

 

2. Do you know the game well enough to know the vanilla plays from the chocolate ones?

 

3. Do you not think that some of the plays they ran last night were also ones they ran last year?

 

4. You don't think evaluation & film study can't be done on the first play when Nelson got beat and held?  What about the pass that Brissett missed to Funchess costin them a 1st down - something can't be learned there?  Or any other plays in those 76 3 and outs?

 

5. The pre-season goal is 1) health and 2) evaluation.  So they kept a bunch of guys out and played Brissett for two series.  But throughout the game you can see if a player did his job, beat his man, learned from a mistake even in the most basic of plays.

 

You were probably emotional after the loss and posted something off base.  It happens.  

 

6 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

No. Not one rational thought other than if you don't like it, don't watch.....blah, blah, blah

 

That's okay though, hide behind your keyboard there warrior.

 

Not one rational thought?  Heavens to mercy the best and most intellectual posters on here went a collective "wth" to your post.

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4 hours ago, threeflight said:

I don't entirely agree with that.  I don't think there is a correlation between winning games in the preseason and the regular season because so many scrubs play the last 2 quarters, but I do think having the first and some of the second stringers play well does translate to the regular season on a execution and confidence level.  Especially when you are missing your starting QB with no real idea when he will be back.  Having the other players do well and play well without the starting QB gives them confidence they can without him.  IF they all suck without Luck?

 

They are defeated before they even played the game.

I'm no expert, by any means, but I still believe in the old saying, you play like you practice....and preseason is just that....practice.  If they can't execute well with the ones and twos, that's a concern.  Not getting a single first down? (correct me if I'm wrong).  THAT is concerning from the ones/twos, regardless if we are missing players.  Next man up, right?!

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14 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

1. The entire league does it.  EVERYONE tries to not show anything serious in the preseason.  There must be something there if 32 of 32 teams do it.

 

2. Do you know the game well enough to know the vanilla plays from the chocolate ones?

 

3. Do you not think that some of the plays they ran last night were also ones they ran last year?

 

4. You don't think evaluation & film study can't be done on the first play when Nelson got beat and held?  What about the pass that Brissett missed to Funchess costin them a 1st down - something can't be learned there?  Or any other plays in those 76 3 and outs?

 

5. The pre-season goal is 1) health and 2) evaluation.  So they kept a bunch of guys out and played Brissett for two series.  But throughout the game you can see if a player did his job, beat his man, learned from a mistake even in the most basic of plays.

 

You were probably emotional after the loss and posted something off base.  It happens.  

 

 

Not one rational thought?  Heavens to mercy the best and most intellectual posters on here went a collective "wth" to your post.

Yes, I noticed the feedback was better as I read further. My bad.

 

Emotional, meh......I was seriously wondering how you truly evaluate when you so go so vanilla that you literally go 3 and out for almost an entire half.

 

 

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The problem  is with Luck injured and not practicing  we don't  know if he will suit up for the chargers game. Given how bad Brissett  looked we aren't  sure if he'd beat phillip Rivers on the road if he does end up starting. 

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6 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

1) That wasn’t the first team offense, only 4 starters will be starting come week 1. 

 

2) It’s preseason, if we ran non vanilla plays, we would be giving opposing defenses extra film to watch on what we would do come regular season. 

 

3) I wasn’t expecting to win that game, I was just fine seeing some rookies and new guys see action.

Non sense. The Patriots  and Ravens put on a better showing. You don't  have to intentionally suck in preseason  to be good in the reg season. Brissett  needs all the reps he can get. They aren't  fooling the chargers with with negative  runs by hines and poorly executed  screens. 

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14 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Non sense. The Patriots  and Ravens put on a better showing. You don't  have to intentionally suck in preseason  to be good in the reg season. Brissett  needs all the reps he can get. They aren't  fooling the chargers with with negative  runs by hines and poorly executed  screens. 

 

Dear God...

 

You are always worth either a 1) head rub or 2) a good laugh. 

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9 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

So you're saying that none of those guys that lined up with the first team were incapable of processing the playbook? You may need to rethink that thought process.....

Im speaking SPECIFICALLY, in regards to the rookies and new vets brought in. Also You do realize the starters were in for all of 3 series? Why would they throw some exotic play calling when the starters were in on limited snaps,  That’s pointless. Once again the preseason is for evaluating your guys. Which is why the play calling was Vanilla it requires LESS thinking and your guys can play faster. 

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7 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

I was seriously wondering how you truly evaluate when you so go so vanilla that you literally go 3 and out for almost an entire half.

 

Just curious:  If the same vanilla plays were actually executed well and the offense (with only 4 starters playing) managed to get a few first downs, even a TD or two, instead of 3-and-outs, would you have any complaints about the vanilla play-calling?

 

If the entire team had looked good for the entire game last night, would we even be talking about the play-calling?  I thought preseason was about evaluating talent to pare down the roster... not play-calling...  :scratch:

 

If you think about it, had Reich used primo playcalls to make average talent look good, he'd be doing himself and his team a disservice because calling a good game to get a win isn't the point of a preseason game.  A really good playcall that gets Krishawn Hogan open by 10 yards for an easy catch doesn't really help evaluate Hogans' ability to get open on his own.  Or a playcall that has Hines running through an open lane you could drive a Mack truck through doesn't really help evaluate Hines' ability to run between the tackles.

 

The more vanilla the playcalling, the more the individual players have to use their talent to earn a roster spot on the team.

 

giphy.gif

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5 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Just curious:  If the same vanilla plays were actually executed well and the offense (with only 4 starters playing) managed to get a few first downs, even a TD or two, instead of 3-and-outs, would you have any complaints about the vanilla play-calling?

 

If the entire team had looked good for the entire game last night, would we even be talking about the play-calling?  I thought preseason was about evaluating talent to pare down the roster... not play-calling...  :scratch:

 

If you think about it, had Reich used primo playcalls to make average talent look good, he'd be doing himself and his team a disservice because calling a good game to get a win isn't the point of a preseason game.  A really good playcall that gets Krishawn Hogan open by 10 yards for an easy catch doesn't really help evaluate Hogans' ability to get open on his own.  Or a playcall that has Hines running through an open lane you could drive a Mack truck through doesn't really help evaluate Hines' ability to run between the tackles.

 

The more vanilla the playcalling, the more the individual players have to use their talent to earn a roster spot on the team.

 

giphy.gif

This is all a very good point and makes sense. Hopefully we will see more so the team can get prepared for sept 8th.

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2 hours ago, ProblChld32 said:

Im speaking SPECIFICALLY, in regards to the rookies and new vets brought in. Also You do realize the starters were in for all of 3 series? Why would they throw some exotic play calling when the starters were in on limited snaps,  That’s pointless. Once again the preseason is for evaluating your guys. Which is why the play calling was Vanilla it requires LESS thinking and your guys can play faster. 

Exotic wasn't mentioned. Normal calls from last year that were on tape already. Why not see if Pascal can execute those routes? Or Cain? Or Johnson? Tough to "evaluate" when you're going 3 and out because you call vanilla plays.

 

Less thinking? Play faster? Bogus.....they should know the playbook already.

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1 hour ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Just curious:  If the same vanilla plays were actually executed well and the offense (with only 4 starters playing) managed to get a few first downs, even a TD or two, instead of 3-and-outs, would you have any complaints about the vanilla play-calling?

 

If the entire team had looked good for the entire game last night, would we even be talking about the play-calling?  I thought preseason was about evaluating talent to pare down the roster... not play-calling...  :scratch:

 

If you think about it, had Reich used primo playcalls to make average talent look good, he'd be doing himself and his team a disservice because calling a good game to get a win isn't the point of a preseason game.  A really good playcall that gets Krishawn Hogan open by 10 yards for an easy catch doesn't really help evaluate Hogans' ability to get open on his own.  Or a playcall that has Hines running through an open lane you could drive a Mack truck through doesn't really help evaluate Hines' ability to run between the tackles.

 

The more vanilla the playcalling, the more the individual players have to use their talent to earn a roster spot on the team.

 

giphy.gif

It's not about scheming them open. It's about can they execute our offense against another NFL teams defense if given the opportunity. 

 

And yes, I would have and have in the past said something about vanilla game plans.

 

You practice how you play and exhibition games should be treated as practice - except versus different people.

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Just a Question? Other than the obvious, Andrew returning last year and delivering a spectacular comeback year, which unit improved the most? We all know it was the offensive line! My question is this, why was the offensive line coach terminated? Who is Chris Strausser?? I attended the first 4 days at camp and the offensive line looked awful. Just read a Colts.com article featuring one Chris Strausser. Read it, I would not want to play for the guy. Something wreaks and I sincerely hope the Muddy waters are cleared up quickly!

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Reich said is was going to be vanilla, and more about evaluation. I'm guessing it's easier to grade and evaluate guys against each other when they are running limited/vanilla plays, right?

 

I'm sure the playbook will open up a bit (not a lot) as coaches start to feel they have an understanding of the talent in front of them.

 

I'm not a fan of some of the play calling in the regular season, but complaining about vanilla play calling in game one of the pre season, is like complaining that water is wet.

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