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Hoose

Will Chester Rogers be on the 53 man squad?

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19 minutes ago, rock8591 said:

Rogers is overrated by this forum.

 

Anyone who watches the games, he was a non-factor in the return game. 80+% of his catches, he fair catches, or returns for minimal yardage.

 

I'd rather take a chance at Fountain and fail, then settle for a mediocre former.

he's no superstar returner, but ranked 12th in total return yards, 9th in average return yards, and 10th in longest return... And Andre Roberts who led the league in the average yards, and was second in total yards, had just one less fair catch (and one less opportunity). 

 

that's not a non factor. That's in the top 3rd of the league (about the same rank both our O and D were in 2018), and was probably coached to be "safe". 

 

perhaps you should take a look at stats instead of just watching the game?

 

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We all want a dynamic return guy but until we find one who can hold onto the ball we must keep the guy who has ball security. We are in the plus turnover business not the negative.

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15 hours ago, Hoose said:

I keep wondering about this. He was truly the only decent punt returner this team had last year. Everyone else was a fumble waiting to happen. 

I haven't kept track of how Hines and Campbell have been doing in this role so far in camp. Those are the two guys who IMO would supplant Rogers if they can handle the job. Both are secure in their other jobs as RB and WR; Rogers has to hang on as WR #6 I suspect. 

My guess: Rogers sticks. We keep 6 WRs. 

 

 Punt returning won't be the reason he makes the 53, and he won't be #6.
 

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28 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Punt returning won't be the reason he makes the 53, and he won't be #6.
 

 

His return ability certainly helps his case.

 

How many teams carry six WRs? 

 

 

 

 

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I know how Chester will perform on game day. He has been trending up since the end of last year. But I am real interested to see how the new guys will perform on game day when the plays are not scripted. Everybody should do good in practice, but game day, when the unexpected happens, only 5 days away, can’t wait.

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8 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

he's no superstar returner, but ranked 12th in total return yards, 9th in average return yards, and 10th in longest return... And Andre Roberts who led the league in the average yards, and was second in total yards, had just one less fair catch (and one less opportunity). 

 

 

fair catches dont count as returns or in the return yard average.  havent looked at all the numbers, but thats probably making rodgers stats look better than he was

 

i say this because i thought he made several fair catches when he had 10+ yards of space

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1 minute ago, JR Indy said:

I know how Chester will perform on game day. He has been trending up since the end of last year. But I am real interested to see how the new guys will perform on game day when the plays are not scripted. Everybody should do good in practice, but game day, when the unexpected happens, only 5 days away, can’t wait.

 

If I’m reading this correctly, you mean a player might play well in TC, but it may not translate to the playing field? 

 

100% agree!

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I just hearken back to the fact that once Chester took over punt return duties, it was no longer a problem; he consistently caught the ball and also showed some shiftiness in run-backs.  And he's a solid 5-6 WR. Watch how quickly people jump on the Rogers bandwagon once Hines or Campbell are put back there during the preseason and fumble the ball away. Rogers is a critical and under appreciated security blanket. He'll be fielding punts against the Chargers in September. 

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1 hour ago, MPStack said:

 

His return ability certainly helps his case.

 

How many teams carry six WRs? 

 

 

 

 

 

12 teams carry 6 WR's.   :banana:
We won't.

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27 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

12 teams carry 6 WR's.   :banana:
We won't.

 

With an emphasis on TE in Reich’s offense.

 

100% agree

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2 hours ago, MPStack said:

 

If I’m reading this correctly, you mean a player might play well in TC, but it may not translate to the playing field? 

 

100% agree!

Exactly, some guys will melt under the game day lights of the NFL. I will try to watch every play. Because each and every year somebody is going to really play well that nobody on this board saw coming. 

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14 hours ago, rock8591 said:

Anyone who watches the games, he was a non-factor in the return game. 80+% of his catches, he fair catches, or returns for minimal yardage.

I'd rather take a chance at Fountain and fail, then settle for a mediocre former.

 

Failing in punt returns can be very costly. Every fail is almost guaranteed easy 3 points or more, because in today's NFL, offenses and punters are good enough to gain enough yards, then punt the ball inside/around your 20, many times inside your 10. You don't want to loose the ball there. So you make sure that whoever you send on the field has sure hands and has good decision making. The guy has to know when to sign fair catch, when to catch the ball, when to let it fall. And when he decides to catch it, he must catch that damn ball every time.

 

Yards gained are nice to have, but only after that you made sure your guy does check those above skills.

 

 

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On 8/2/2019 at 3:03 PM, Hoose said:

I keep wondering about this. He was truly the only decent punt returner this team had last year. Everyone else was a fumble waiting to happen. 

I haven't kept track of how Hines and Campbell have been doing in this role so far in camp. Those are the two guys who IMO would supplant Rogers if they can handle the job. Both are secure in their other jobs as RB and WR; Rogers has to hang on as WR #6 I suspect. 

My guess: Rogers sticks. We keep 6 WRs. 

 

I can say with 100% certainty......

 

The answer for right now.......      is.......    maybe.

 

Beyond that,  it's way too soon to know....

 

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There were also a lot of catches he should not have made. e.g. a catch within the 5-10 yard line with defenders all over.

 

At best, it would have given him field position at the 5-10. At worst, a fumble for a TD. Better to gamble with it being a touchback, or even downed at the 1.

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It’s going to be close.  Keeping or cutting him is probably going to be one of the hardest and the last decisions the Colts have to make at cut down town.

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I assume we will see a bunch of different players take PR in preseason games. It will be interesting to see how anyone outside of Rogers does.

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12 hours ago, aaron11 said:

 

fair catches dont count as returns or in the return yard average.  havent looked at all the numbers, but thats probably making rodgers stats look better than he was

 

i say this because i thought he made several fair catches when he had 10+ yards of space

Like I said, he had plenty of FCs, but only 1 more than the league leading Roberts. Roberts only on had 1 less opportunity. Roberts also had 7 fumbles the last two years, compared to Rogers 1. Again, he's not a superstar, and he may play it safe, but he's safely in the top 3rd all things considered. We all want superstars at every position, but I'm happy when are players are in the top 3rd at their position.... I'd be happier if Hines or Campbell could take over without turning the ball over, but Hines struggled last year when given the chance, and PC has been up and down so far in camp. 

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2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I can say with 100% certainty......

 

The answer for right now.......      is.......    maybe.

 

Beyond that,  it's way too soon to know....

 

Ha! Probably right. But to those who say no way the Colts keep 6 WRs, I disagree. 6 WRs; 4 TEs; 4 RBs; 9 OL; 2QBs. 

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22 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

 

Like I said, remove 17 and compare 16 to 18 if you want to remove the JB factor. The story is the same, with Luck as the QB both years.

He wasnt really targeted in '16 tho.

im not knocking him, i am a fan of Chester.

But i see the same player, just more opportunities as the main difference.  Especially last year when receivers were dropping like flies at times.  But whether it was '18 , '16, or his rookie pre-season, Chester made plays when given the opportunity.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

He wasnt really targeted in '16 tho.

im not knocking him, i am a fan of Chester.

But i see the same player, just more opportunities as the main difference.  Especially last year when receivers were dropping like flies at times.  But whether it was '18 , '16, or his rookie pre-season, Chester made plays when given the opportunity.

 

Chester was only targeted 3 more times in 17 vs 16, and he even improved his catch % in 17. While TY's targets went way down, CR's were pretty much the same. I think it's fair to say that regardless of looking at 16 when he had Luck, 17 when he had similar targets and yards with JB, he improved a great deal in 18 when called on, and has performed very well for being an UDFA.

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2 hours ago, Hoose said:

Ha! Probably right. But to those who say no way the Colts keep 6 WRs, I disagree. 6 WRs; 4 TEs; 4 RBs; 9 OL; 2QBs. 

 

Again....      Maybe....

 

I'm not convinced the Colts keep 25 on offense....    I'm guessing fewer...

 

And even if we do,  I'm also guessing it's doubtful we keep 6 WR's, 4 TE's and 4 RB's.   Plus, only 9 OL....     I think Ballard would prefer 10 OL, and if we keep 25, that would mean one less of those three play making positions...

 

Just my hunch....

 

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36 minutes ago, DarkSuperman87 said:

If you want Chester Rogers on this team then you love mediocre.

No team has 53 superstars. Having a reliable guy like Rogers as your 5th receiver is not loving mediocrity. 

 

Honest question. What is your chosen 5 that would account for starting 3 (X, Z, Slot), back-up for those 3, and returns?

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2 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

 

Chester was only targeted 3 more times in 17 vs 16, and he even improved his catch % in 17. While TY's targets went way down, CR's were pretty much the same. I think it's fair to say that regardless of looking at 16 when he had Luck, 17 when he had similar targets and yards with JB, he improved a great deal in 18 when called on, and has performed very well for being an UDFA.

His targets and receptions were the same in '16 and '17.  What changed?  A healthy Luck and opportunities (targets).  Many of those ipportunities wete due to injuries above him.

i'm not sure why this is so difficult.

 

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2 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

His targets and receptions were the same in '16 and '17.  What changed?  A healthy Luck and opportunities (targets).  Many of those ipportunities wete due to injuries above him.

i'm not sure why this is so difficult.

 

It's not difficult. The guy improved and performed when called upon. You want to minimize that improvement. 

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2 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

It's not difficult. The guy improved and performed when called upon. You want to minimize that improvement. 

Im not minimizing an improvement (intentionally).

I am saying i dont see much improvement (in the numbers), rather i am saying he is what he was all along (a compliment). He is a reliable 3rd down target, and adequate returner.   I am suggesting all that has really changed is opportunities. Opportunities gained from a number of reasons, mainly injuries, imo.  I am not saying he hasnt improved at all.  I would expect his route running has improved, which is expected.

  I just think if he had "improved" as you suggest, he would have  been more involved with a healthy WR group.  It almost feels like they are trying to replace him, but the scrappy fighter just does what is asked and makes it difficult.

  Do we over-rate him?  Yeah probably, but I'd find a way to keep him if I were Ballard.  What he lacks in size he makes up for in heart and versatility.  Traits that fit in well on this team.

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Dude I was gonna argue with you, but I think you hit the nail in the head. Thanks 

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4 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

No team has 53 superstars. Having a reliable guy like Rogers as your 5th receiver is not loving mediocrity. 

 

Honest question. What is your chosen 5 that would account for starting 3 (X, Z, Slot), back-up for those 3, and returns?

Hilton.

Funchess.

Campbell.

Cain.

Pascal.

 

I'm having either Campbell or Cain return punts.

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10 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

Like I said, he had plenty of FCs, but only 1 more than the league leading Roberts. Roberts only on had 1 less opportunity. Roberts also had 7 fumbles the last two years, compared to Rogers 1. Again, he's not a superstar, and he may play it safe, but he's safely in the top 3rd all things considered. We all want superstars at every position, but I'm happy when are players are in the top 3rd at their position.... I'd be happier if Hines or Campbell could take over without turning the ball over, but Hines struggled last year when given the chance, and PC has been up and down so far in camp. 

 

i didnt comment on rogers making the roster because i dont really have a strong opinion on it.  i do think he left a lot on the table with his fair catches though 

 

now that i have thought about it, i think we keep 5 with rogers getting the last spot.  dont see us keeping 6, we have a RB and a few TEs that catch a lot of passes

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7 hours ago, DarkSuperman87 said:

If you want Chester Rogers on this team then you love mediocre.

pascal has been nothing special either

 

i dont see Cain being the punt returner either, though it could go to PC

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On 8/3/2019 at 1:45 AM, rock8591 said:

Rogers is overrated by this forum.

 

Anyone who watches the games, he was a non-factor in the return game. 80+% of his catches, he fair catches, or returns for minimal yardage.

 

I'd rather take a chance at Fountain and fail, then settle for a mediocre former.

Agreed.  And didn't Pascal return kicks?  Not exactly the same as returning punts but if one of the younger receivers can display a reliable return game, Rogers is gone IMO.  

 

I think the FO would like to see if younger guys can have a higher ceiling.

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On 8/3/2019 at 1:45 AM, rock8591 said:

Rogers is overrated by this forum.

 

Anyone who watches the games, he was a non-factor in the return game. 80+% of his catches, he fair catches, or returns for minimal yardage.

 

I'd rather take a chance at Fountain and fail, then settle for a mediocre former.

Someone mentioned the value of experience, maybe under valued in Rogers case. He knows Luck, Luck knows him. In close games, tough situations, we need that experience to be in the right spot, right time. Could be a difference in a W or L. I would rather not take chances in those situations. Now with AL missing as much time as he has, he's not building that experience with younger guys. Dude doesn't light it up, but does bring enough to make the team. 

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On 8/4/2019 at 7:01 AM, DarkSuperman87 said:

Hilton.

Funchess.

Campbell.

Cain.

Pascal.

 

I'm having either Campbell or Cain return punts.

I think we will keep 6.  those 5 and Fountain

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On 8/3/2019 at 4:55 PM, rock8591 said:

There were also a lot of catches he should not have made. e.g. a catch within the 5-10 yard line with defenders all over.

 

At best, it would have given him field position at the 5-10. At worst, a fumble for a TD. Better to gamble with it being a touchback, or even downed at the 1.

Curious, do you think that he defies the coaches where he is supposed to, or not supposed to catch the ball?

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Right now unless someone is going to return punts Rogers will make it. Parris has been injured and was very shaky doing it. Hines hasn’t been very comfy either.  Penny hart has a huge TD on a return but he has also been injured. We will see how Hines does in the preseason games.

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Unless Hines gets the yips like he did last season and so far no indication but it is early he should be our p.r.    Wr is deep with T.Y.,Funchess,Campbell and Cain locked in spots 1-4 unless injury leaving 1-2 spots for Pascal (Who looked better then Rogers last season) then Fountain (Highest upside) then likely Hogan (If he stays healthy this time). Rogers or Rodgers as some prefer falls in with Johnson,Veasey who is trending up,Dulin, Hart who is trending down,Ishmael who is trending down and Lewis who is a roster body after flaming out with the Giants.  

 

I expect 2-3 of these guys to make other rosters, 1-2 may sneak through waivers to make the p.s.

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37 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

Unless Hines gets the yips like he did last season and so far no indication but it is early he should be our p.r.    Wr is deep with T.Y.,Funchess,Campbell and Cain locked in spots 1-4 unless injury leaving 1-2 spots for Pascal (Who looked better then Rogers last season) then Fountain (Highest upside) then likely Hogan (If he stays healthy this time). Rogers or Rodgers as some prefer falls in with Johnson,Veasey who is trending up,Dulin, Hart who is trending down,Ishmael who is trending down and Lewis who is a roster body after flaming out with the Giants.  

 

I expect 2-3 of these guys to make other rosters, 1-2 may sneak through waivers to make the p.s.

 

Just curious. How did Pascal look better than Rogers last year? Rogers had more yards and a much better catch % (74% vs 59%). Rogers was ranked 9th in target separation vs Pascal at 40th. Rogers was also rated higher at contested catch rate. Their YPC was very close even though a typical X should have significant more. Pascal even had a slightly higher drop rate, when most would expect a slot to have a higher rate. Is this just the literal "eye" test?

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3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Right now unless someone is going to return punts Rogers will make it. Parris has been injured and was very shaky doing it. Hines hasn’t been very comfy either.  Penny hart has a huge TD on a return but he has also been injured. We will see how Hines does in the preseason games.

Have we seen Fountain back there yet? He returned punts in the East-West game. He was the Offensive MVP of that game. 

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