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Behle

Colts and a player holdout?

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What would Colts management do if one of the players were to holdout?  Players currently are taking a cue from the NBA and forcing teams to pay them, and in Gordon’s case, possibly  trade them .  I think management would not negotiate if a player were to do so. Seems that the Colts may try to avoid that scenario by taking care of players before that happens. That though remains to be seen. 

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Right now with the culture of this team I have a hard time picturing anyone holding out. 

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I'm guessing guys who would hold out are not the type of guys that Ballard drafts.

 

Don't get me wrong, no one is expected to play for a discount.  But you play out your contract in terms of showing up to camp and playing in the games.  If your contract ends you hit free agency and all 32 teams can make offers to you.

 

This holdout thing is people trying to get more money while they are still under contract.  

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7 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

I'm guessing guys who would hold out are not the type of guys that Ballard drafts.

 

Don't get me wrong, no one is expected to play for a discount.  But you play out your contract in terms of showing up to camp and playing in the games.  If your contract ends you hit free agency and all 32 teams can make offers to you.

 

This holdout thing is people trying to get more money while they are still under contract.  

 

I think the belief that the Colts don’t have players who would hold out is naive as can be. Of course they do - they just don’t have guys who are at the right point of their contract. 

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35 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

I think the belief that the Colts don’t have players who would hold out is naive as can be. Of course they do - they just don’t have guys who are at the right point of their contract. 

You dont think AC is at the point to hold out? What about Ebron and Doyle. They are all in the last year and could easily do that.

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1 hour ago, jskinnz said:

 

I think the belief that the Colts don’t have players who would hold out is naive as can be. Of course they do - they just don’t have guys who are at the right point of their contract. 

I totally agree and its very naive and we would all do the same if put in that position especially football where careers are usually very short and it can end on one play. 

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Melvin Gordon is holding out because he’s a running back on a rookie deal. Castonzo has already gotten his second contract so there’s no reason for him to hold out in a contract year. Ebron is also in a contract year and while he may have outplayed what he made last year, he’s not exactly a prototypical every down TE. He played like 50% of offensive snaps. He was given the opportunity of a lifetime by Reich and Ballard and was put in a position to succeed. Neither guy is in a spot where they would benefit from a holdout. 

 

Now let’s say Darius balls out this year and next the way he did his rookie year and isn’t given a new contract going in to year four, that would be a situation where we could see a holdout. I don’t think Ballard would allow that. The way that he rewarded Moore and to a lesser degree Desir and Hunt, I just don’t see him letting it get to that point. 

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4 minutes ago, The Peytonator said:

Melvin Gordon is holding out because he’s a running back on a rookie deal. Castonzo has already gotten his second contract so there’s no reason for him to hold out in a contract year. Ebron is also in a contract year and while he may have outplayed what he made last year, he’s not exactly a prototypical every down TE. He played like 50% of offensive snaps. He was given the opportunity of a lifetime by Reich and Ballard and was put in a position to succeed. Neither guy is in a spot where they would benefit from a holdout. 

 

Now let’s say Darius balls out this year and next the way he did his rookie year and isn’t given a new contract going in to year four, that would be a situation where we could see a holdout. I don’t think Ballard would allow that. The way that he rewarded Moore and to a lesser degree Desir and Hunt, I just don’t see him letting it get to that point. 

That is one reason you won’t see a colt hold out. Ballard is smart and would never let it get that far.

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2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

You dont think AC is at the point to hold out? What about Ebron and Doyle. They are all in the last year and could easily do that.

 

Weak. Those are bad examples. 

 

 

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11 hours ago, The Peytonator said:

Melvin Gordon is holding out because he’s a running back on a rookie deal. Castonzo has already gotten his second contract so there’s no reason for him to hold out in a contract year. Ebron is also in a contract year and while he may have outplayed what he made last year, he’s not exactly a prototypical every down TE. He played like 50% of offensive snaps. He was given the opportunity of a lifetime by Reich and Ballard and was put in a position to succeed. Neither guy is in a spot where they would benefit from a holdout. 

 

Now let’s say Darius balls out this year and next the way he did his rookie year and isn’t given a new contract going in to year four, that would be a situation where we could see a holdout. I don’t think Ballard would allow that. The way that he rewarded Moore and to a lesser degree Desir and Hunt, I just don’t see him letting it get to that point. 

Agree, seems he might be keeping his cap space available for those situations.

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22 hours ago, Behle said:

What would Colts management do if one of the players were to holdout?  Players currently are taking a cue from the NBA and forcing teams to pay them, and in Gordon’s case, possibly  trade them .  I think management would not negotiate if a player were to do so. Seems that the Colts may try to avoid that scenario by taking care of players before that happens. That though remains to be seen. 

The Colts have some kind of system in place that deals pretty well with that issue. I've been watching the Colts since 2001 and can't recall barely a single player holdout. I'm sure I'm missing someone but overall it's been very minimal.

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20 hours ago, The Peytonator said:

Now let’s say Darius balls out this year and next the way he did his rookie year and isn’t given a new contract going in to year four, that would be a situation where we could see a holdout

 

I was ready to put the one to watch is DL. Bobby Wagner just got a 3 year- 54 mil extension with 40 guaranteed... meaning Mr. Leonard sees what is coming in the next couple years. If he has two more good years, and negotiations heading into his 4th year are stalling over a top tiered contract, I could absolutely see him holding out. He has a family and came from very little. I wouldn't blame him. That's a lot of guaranteed money to have wiped out because of an untimely injury. 

 

Ballard is smart and will likely jump at the chance to lock his stars down. It's why our cap situation is important. We are going to have a tight cap one of these days, and that's a damn good problem to have if your guys are worth it. 

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Darius has two more seasons before he is even eligible for a extension. If he plays the way he played last year you don’t think Ballard will make him the highest paid LB. Everyone seems to think Ballard’s approach is the same with his own players that it is in FA. It’s not.

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On 7/26/2019 at 4:19 PM, Behle said:

What would Colts management do if one of the players were to holdout?

 

First of all, I get the players who holdout, as they just want to secure their future and get as much money in the bank as they can, before they cant play anymore. 

 

Second, in two years ( the 2021 season - please correct me if im wrong) there will be NO games played due to negotiations for a new CBA, where the NFL and NFLPA will have to find a solution, that won't be solved right away, and as for what I have read and understood, that will be an ugly fight and players want guaranteed contracts and much more money and power, like in the NBA, MLB, which the NFL owners will try to avoid. 

My point is, those players who holdout now, want as much money before the 2021 season, as some of them know, they might miss a full season. 

 

Im not for holding out, but I understand the players, as this sport is much tougher and in many ways like open field boxing, where players  can get concussions on every play, which in the long run can lead to severe injuries and ruin the lives of players after retirement. 

 

You all know the movie Concussion with Will Smith, about CTE... I dont care how much the NFL says they have done to avoid players getting concussions, they can't do anything about it, as players still get concussions and blows to their head on every down, which is part of the game and something you just cant do anything about, unless they cant touch each other.

 

But the colts and Chris Ballard are smart and the players they have on their roster, all knows that, if they perform for the colts, they will get paid. 

Ballard have created a culture, where the players believe in him and trust him.

 

Had we had Grigson, I would say it would be a whole different story, as players hated Grigson and the culture was poisoned and in no way as it is right now.

 

So if a player would hold out, Ballard would just let the player hold out, and replace the player with the next man up, and the player would never play for the colts again, as he wouldn't fit the culture or into the locker room.  

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Ballard has said to our guys “If you play, I’ll play” I would find it really hard to see one of our players holding out. Especially with the money we have and how Ballard has managed it. We can do contract extensions and new team friendly deals easily. 

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14 minutes ago, a06cc said:

Ballard has said to our guys “If you play, I’ll play” I would find it really hard to see one of our players holding out. Especially with the money we have and how Ballard has managed it. We can do contract extensions and new team friendly deals easily. 

 

Today it is easy.  In 2-3 more years when some of these picks that they've hit on come due for a 2nd contract and Luck is in line for a raise, it will be a much bigger challenge.   

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8 hours ago, jskinnz said:

 

Today it is easy.  In 2-3 more years when some of these picks that they've hit on come due for a 2nd contract and Luck is in line for a raise, it will be a much bigger challenge.   

 

Yup. Primary reason they have a good cap situation right now is that Grigson blew three straight drafts. I think we only have one player remaining from the 2013-2015 drafts. 

 

Simply having better drafts from 2016-2018 is going to change the cap math, and soon. 

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I think RB are the one position that get screwed with the rookie contacts and pay scale. The shelf life for a RB is so short so teams don’t want to give them a second contact. They would rather start with another rookie running back. Especially hurts if your a RB who becomes great and  you were a fourth rd pick like Mack. He could get a extension after this season. Going to be interesting if he gets it early.

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Players should hold out for every penny they can get when that is their only leverage. Melvin Gordon and Leveon Bell are prime examples of owners working the system to their benefit.  Which I agree with.  Use the rules and tools available to maximize your position. For players that is holding out for a contract or trade and owners that is the franchise tag, slotted rookie deals and unguaranteed contracts. 

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15 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think RB are the one position that get screwed with the rookie contacts and pay scale. The shelf life for a RB is so short so teams don’t want to give them a second contact. They would rather start with another rookie running back. Especially hurts if your a RB who becomes great and  you were a fourth rd pick like Mack. He could get a extension after this season. Going to be interesting if he gets it early.

 

RB's get screwed in other ways too.  There is also the sheer fact that it seems to work just fine to just have a rotation of 3 different RB's based on situation rather than 1 bell cow back.   So a lot of teams arn't even close to interested in them for the money they want.

 

Honestly if you ask me I think the value of the top RB's is inflated as it is.  

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On 7/28/2019 at 10:30 AM, jskinnz said:

 

Today it is easy.  In 2-3 more years when some of these picks that they've hit on come due for a 2nd contract and Luck is in line for a raise, it will be a much bigger challenge.   

That’s part of the reason why I’m sure Ballard hasn’t selected any big names in free agency. He and Irsay have prepared for the future for signing our guys. I don’t think it will be a problem in the future. That’s why we’re saving the money we have now. 

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