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Iron Colt

Dungy 'Do what we do' vs Belichick gameplans

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1 hour ago, gspdx said:

Pretty bold assumption from one little post.

Yup. But they are easy to spot.  They are the ones that start a thread talking about how great some aspect of the Patriots are and wishing the Colts could be that good in that area.

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21 hours ago, Iron Colt said:

Oh come on. All those great Manning teams and he went to one Superbowl. They called him one and Dun-gy for a reason. 

 

In the playoffs, he was bad.

 

I've literally never heard anyone call Dungy that until just now.

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8 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I've literally never heard anyone call Dungy that until just now.

Well I didn't just make it up. Jets game, Steelers game, Chargers game, Chargers again.  3 points against the Patriots. Lots of stinkers.

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11 minutes ago, Iron Colt said:

Well I didn't just make it up. Jets game, Steelers game, Chargers game, Chargers again.  3 points against the Patriots. Lots of stinkers.

Dungy's career playoff record is 7-6 with us so he is above .500 = good. When we lost 41-0 to Chad Pennington in the 2002 season that did make me puke though haha . 

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31 minutes ago, Iron Colt said:

Well I didn't just make it up. Jets game, Steelers game, Chargers game, Chargers again.  3 points against the Patriots. Lots of stinkers.

 

The saying I believe you invented.

 

Let me ask you this - did Dungy force Manning to throw 4 Int's against the Pats in the 2003 season.  In a one score game, maybe they win if those don't happen.

 

When the Colts got back into the Steelers game, did Dungy force Manning to disregard the wide open James for a first down instead of throwing it to Wayne in end zone?  Did he cause Vanderjagt to miss the kick?

 

How could Dungy have prevented an all time great game by a punter in the 2nd San Diego loss?

 

In the first San Diego loss, when the Colts were driving to take a 14-0 lead, how could Dungy have prevented the Harrison fumble?  Or how could he have helped an int deep in SD territory from bouncing off Kenton Keith's hands.

 

Superman said it best - you are just a troll.

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18 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

The saying I believe you invented.

 

Let me ask you this - did Dungy force Manning to throw 4 Int's against the Pats in the 2003 season.  In a one score game, maybe they win if those don't happen.

 

When the Colts got back into the Steelers game, did Dungy force Manning to disregard the wide open James for a first down instead of throwing it to Wayne in end zone?  Did he cause Vanderjagt to miss the kick?

 

How could Dungy have prevented an all time great game by a punter in the 2nd San Diego loss?

 

In the first San Diego loss, when the Colts were driving to take a 14-0 lead, how could Dungy have prevented the Harrison fumble?  Or how could he have helped an int deep in SD territory from bouncing off Kenton Keith's hands.

 

Superman said it best - you are just a troll.

All of these things happened under his watch. He didn't have his teams prepared and he lacked the ability to adjust. Those were awful loses.

 

You blame Manning for some of those losses. Funny, Brady is never put in a position to be blamed for playoff losses.....when they rarely occur.

So Harrison fumble? We were still up 7-0 and they were without Rivers, Tomlinson and Gates.

And youre blaming a punter?  How about you move the ball and get field position back?

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33 minutes ago, Iron Colt said:

All of these things happened under his watch. He didn't have his teams prepared and he lacked the ability to adjust. Those were awful loses.

 

You blame Manning for some of those losses. Funny, Brady is never put in a position to be blamed for playoff losses.....when they rarely occur. So Harrison fumble? We were still up 7-0 and they were without Rivers, Tomlinson and Gates. And youre blaming a punter?  How about you move the ball and get field position back?

 

No offense bro, but your statements regarding Dungy are not just simply wrong, but approaching comical. :)

 

Use google, look around, and try to find an all time list - made by whomever, espn, bleacher, athletic, nfl.com, cbs, team sites, talking heads, former coaches, etc. - which does not mention Dungy amongs the top20 all time. Minimum. Most will list him inside the top15. 

 

Before we go further, let me suggest something: lets make a distinction between game planning, in game adjustments, and lack of execution. Then we can talk about the behind reasons of those lost games in the past. Until then, it's a waste of time.

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18 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

No offense bro, but your statements regarding Dungy are not just simply wrong, but approaching comical. :)

 

Use google, look around, and try to find an all time list - made by whomever, espn, bleacher, athletic, nfl.com, cbs, team sites, talking heads, former coaches, etc. - which does not mention Dungy amongs the top20 all time. Minimum. Most will list him inside the top15. 

 

Before we go further, let me suggest something: lets make a distinction between game planning, in game adjustments, and lack of execution. Then we can talk about the behind reasons of those lost games in the past. Until then, it's a waste of time.

 

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17 hours ago, Iron Colt said:

I just hope Lucks career isn't wasted like Manning's was under Dun-gy.

 

Peyton is seen by pretty much everyone as one of the best QBs/players to ever play the game.

 

His career wasn't wasted.

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On 7/17/2019 at 3:54 PM, Superman said:

in a league that was undergoing dramatic change at the time

 

This is where Bellichick sticks out and won his many championships. He adapted every year. He made adjustments every game and has never had the same gameplan twice... I think to the Patriots playoff game in '14 against the Ravens. In a playoff game where one would expect the Pats to run the football, they ran the ball like 13 times for less than 20 yards while Brady threw damn near every time. They grinded out a win they shouldn't have won, stomped our beloved Colts and grinded out another Superbowl (that they shouldn't have won). Those playoff games showcased B.B and Tom Brady's brilliance to me as much as any. 

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1 hour ago, Finball said:

 

Peyton is seen by pretty much everyone as one of the best QBs/players to ever play the game.

 

His career wasn't wasted.

 

If it weren't for arguably the greatest dynasty in the history of football being in the same era, Peyton Manning and the Colts would be exactly that. That's not a knock on Dungy. That's a testament to Bill Bellichick and the Patriots. It could easily have fallen the other way in favor of our Colts. It just didn't. 

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i stayed in tampa for a while and followed the bucs when i was there.  tbh, bucs fans in general tend to agree with the OP.  he built a great defense there, but his offensive coaching was conservative and predictable 

 

in indy, dungy had an offensive core with multiple hall of famers, and he smartly left the offense up to them and tom moore, while he focused on the defense.  

 

im glad it worked out for us, even if the defense he built here didnt last very long.  

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On 7/18/2019 at 8:38 PM, jskinnz said:

 

So let me understand this. When they won in the playoffs it was the Manning-led teams. When they lost it was on Dungy?

 

Dungy inherited the greatest offense in football. I’m blame him far more than Manning come playoffs. Colts were fortunate to beat a weak NFC opponent (Bears) in the their lone SB victory.

 

Dungy was out coached more when it mattered.  He’s overrated, but a nice man.

 

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/587572-jeff-fisher-redux-the-26-most-overrated-coaches-in-nfl-history

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On 7/17/2019 at 2:33 PM, Iron Colt said:

Does anybody else think that the Dungy(and to be fair a lot of other coaches)way of game planning is just lazy compared to Belichick and the way that he specifically game plans for each game.

Hopefully Reich is closer to Belichick than Dungy. I'd like to see a coach that can game plan and adjust rather than just 'do what we do'.

 

I'll explain how closely tied Reich / Eberflus is tied to Dungy, yet are innovative and different (including Dungy himself).

 

On 7/17/2019 at 2:51 PM, Peterk2011 said:

I need you to explain "lazy" before I can answer. Dungy is a HOF coach, who invented a defensive scheme, that changed the game back in his time. Very few coaches can say that in the history of football. And he did specifically game plan for each game. As every team & coach did and does for quite a long time.

 

Exactly. Dungy was a player and coach under Chuck Knoll/Bud Carson.  Those two innovated various ways to use Mean Joe Greene, and set the roots to the Tony Dungy/Monte Kiffin Tampa 2 innovations. Dungy has his own coaching tree  - Lovie Smith, Leslie Frazier, Jim Caldwell, Mike Tomlin, Herm Edwards, and... Rod Marinelli.

 

Who is Rod Marinelli's protege?  Matt Eberflus.  The Cowboys Linebacker and Pass Defense coordinator, creative in his own right.  Yet a lineage from Dungy through Marinelli. 

 

Frank Reich, under Marv Levy/Bill Polian (who called Reich the greatest NFL backup QB ever) up in Buffalo. Polian gets to Indy, and works with Tony Dungy. In 2006-2007, Frank Reich is on the Colts as a coaching intern.  in 2008 (Tony Dungy's last season) Reich is hired as an offensive coaching staff assistant.  Under Caldwell, he was QB and WR coach. Close ties to Dungy here.

 

While all of these guys are unique and creative in their own ways, there is no question of the lineage and ties of the coaching tree; in this case it is Tony Dungy - the Hall of Fame coach.

 

All of these folks have ideas and game plans.  None of them are lazy. They (have/do) spend countless extra hours in the office every week. Granted, some are better at devising schemes and game plans (and play calling) than others, and also getting the players to understand it and buy in/succeed.

 

On 7/17/2019 at 2:51 PM, Peterk2011 said:

 

Regarding Reich, I like him, I think the Colts found a - kinda - hidden gem in him. However, he has a long, long way to get to where Dungy is/was, not to mention be better than him...

 

Indeed, but Polian has always said that Reich has the make up to be a great HC.  And he has the lineage. Just needs to show it over time.

 

And as far as Bill Belichick's coaching tree, some I think of are-

Bill O'Brien
Matt Patricia
Mike Vrabel
Eric Mangini
Josh McDaniels

Romeo Crennel

 

and possibly Nick Saban  (Browns DC in early/mid 1990's)

 

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48 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Dungy was out coached more when it mattered.

 

Like Sean McVay last year in the SB??  Doug Pederson didn't have that kind of issue in the SB before...

 

Interesting to see those two careers play out.

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2 hours ago, MPStack said:

 

Dungy inherited the greatest offense in football. I’m blame him far more than Manning come playoffs. Colts were fortunate to beat a weak NFC opponent (Bears) in the their lone SB victory.

 

Dungy was out coached more when it mattered.  He’s overrated, but a nice man.

 

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/587572-jeff-fisher-redux-the-26-most-overrated-coaches-in-nfl-history

 

I would not begin to argue that Dungy is among the greatest X and O coaches in league history. 

 

But the post that you quoted from me dealt specifically with the idea from the OP that playoff wins were due to Manning and the losses were on Dungy and that dog don’t hunt. I was in NE and personally witnessed the 4 int game against the Pats. I was also there the following year that to see the Manning led offense put up 3 points. 

 

There is plenty of blame to go around in the losses and enough glory to share in the wins. 

 

I also think it matters not one iota who they beat in the Super Bowl. They won and that is all that history will truly remember. I mean isn’t beating a weak NFC team a little like dating the ugliest Victoria Secret model?  Still a super model you know?

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5 hours ago, MPStack said:

Colts were fortunate to beat a weak NFC opponent (Bears) in the their lone SB victory.

 

The 2006 Bears finished 13-3 (best in the NFC), tied for 2nd in the NFL in points scored, were 3rd in points allowed, had a great two-headed rushing attack, and arguably the best defense/special teams in the league.  Oh, and they DESTROYED the Brees-led Saints 39-14 in the NFCCG...

 

How were the Bears a "weak" opponent?

 

Just because of Rex Grossman?  When the Ravens won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer, was that a "weak" team?  Were the Broncos "weak" when they won with a sub-par Manning?

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