Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Iron Colt

Dungy 'Do what we do' vs Belichick gameplans

Recommended Posts

Does anybody else think that the Dungy(and to be fair a lot of other coaches)way of game planning is just lazy compared to Belichick and the way that he specifically game plans for each game.

Hopefully Reich is closer to Belichick than Dungy. I'd like to see a coach that can game plan and adjust rather than just 'do what we do'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I need you to explain "lazy" before I can answer. Dungy is a HOF coach, who invented a defensive scheme, that changed the game back in his time. Very few coaches can say that in the history of football. And he did specifically game plan for each game. As every team & coach did and does for quite a long time.

 

Regarding Reich, I like him, I think the Colts found a - kinda - hidden gem in him. However, he has a long, long way to get to where Dungy is/was, not to mention be better than him...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Iron Colt said:

Does anybody else think that the Dungy(and to be fair a lot of other coaches)way of game planning is just lazy compared to Belichick and the way that he specifically game plans for each game.

Hopefully Reich is closer to Belichick than Dungy. I'd like to see a coach that can game plan and adjust rather than just 'do what we do'.

Oh look, another Patriots fan pretending to be a Colts fan.  Dungy specifically game planned for each game as well. 

 

What makes BB different and why he's a great coach is because most coaches develop a game plan to attack the opponent's biggest weakness.  BB game plans to attack an opponents biggest strength because if he takes away a team's strength then they have to rely on a weakness to win the game.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like belicheck isn’t straight up changing his system or scheme for opponents. Rather, he identifies the strength and weakness of his opponents, and exploits them based off his own schemes and players’ strengths and weaknesses. He’s able to do this  BECAUSE of how versatile his scheme and personnel are. And that starts with the fundamentals and execution y’all alluded to just now.

 

The Pats are the epitome of versatility. There’s not ‘one specific way’ they win football games. While other teams’ identities are based off play style (example, Manning’s colts being an offensive juggernaut), NE’s identity has always been that ‘do your job’ mentality that thrives on fundamentals and execution.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Belichick is just a damn good coach. Both from a game plan perspective, and getting the most out of his guys. He simply was a wizard, and his guys executed. He also was a genius at roster management.

 

Yes, the GOAT in a hoodie.

ced8441043bc2a66a3da0137bcdb49d9.jpg

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

Belichick is just a damn good coach.

 

#understatement

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

#understatement

i did call him the GOAT, wizard, and a genius too.... :-)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Irish YJ said:

Belichick is just a damn good coach. Both from a game plan perspective, and getting the most out of his guys. He simply was a wizard, and his guys executed. He also was a genius at roster management.

 

Yes, the GOAT in a hoodie.

ced8441043bc2a66a3da0137bcdb49d9.jpg

 

 

  The main reason I can’t see Brady as the QB GOAT.... he never had to outsmart him on game day.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the coaches now have the players to change things up as needed. Eberflus has already showed he knows how to adjust if something isn’t working. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NorthernBlue said:

I feel like belicheck isn’t straight up changing his system or scheme for opponents. Rather, he identifies the strength and weakness of his opponents, and exploits them based off his own schemes and players’ strengths and weaknesses. He’s able to do this  BECAUSE of how versatile his scheme and personnel are. And that starts with the fundamentals and execution y’all alluded to just now.

 

The Pats are the epitome of versatility. There’s not ‘one specific way’ they win football games. While other teams’ identities are based off play style (example, Manning’s colts being an offensive juggernaut), NE’s identity has always been that ‘do your job’ mentality that thrives on fundamentals and execution.

We seem to be building the same type of versatile team here in Indy. It’s very exciting.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to be "LAZY" and still get paid millions.  

 

Now that's a dream job. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess lazy is the wrong word. Rigid or not wanting to get out of your comfort zone is more appropriate than mentally lazy. 

Dungy was a Tampa 2 guy but you never saw him on the sideline talking to the linebackers or other position groups like you do with Belichick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

I need you to explain "lazy" before I can answer. Dungy is a HOF coach, who invented a defensive scheme, that changed the game back in his time. Very few coaches can say that in the history of football. And he did specifically game plan for each game. As every team & coach did and does for quite a long time.

 

Regarding Reich, I like him, I think the Colts found a - kinda - hidden gem in him. However, he has a long, long way to get to where Dungy is/was, not to mention be better than him...

Chuck Noll and Bud Carson created the Tampa 2 - otherwise known as the "Steel Curtain" in the 70's. Not taking anything away from Dungy though....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frank Reich will gameplan against a defense, that much I'm sure of.

 

Eberflus certainly has some "tools" now to generate game specific plans now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Oh look, another Patriots fan pretending to be a Colts fan.  Dungy specifically game planned for each game as well. 

 

What makes BB different and why he's a great coach is because most coaches develop a game plan to attack the opponent's biggest weakness.  BB game plans to attack an opponents biggest strength because if he takes away a team's strength then they have to rely on a weakness to win the game.

Yes, but Belichick wouldn't be what he is today without Brady but Brady wouldn't be what he is without Belichick the two found each other and it made them champions 6 times over. I think without each other somebody else would have been winning those championships maybe us some years. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Iron Colt said:

I guess lazy is the wrong word. Rigid or not wanting to get out of your comfort zone is more appropriate than mentally lazy. 

Dungy was a Tampa 2 guy but you never saw him on the sideline talking to the linebackers or other position groups like you do with Belichick.

 

I think you started a bad thread with poorly chosen words and followed it up with more nonsense. I’d bail if I were you. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

i did call him the GOAT, wizard, and a genius too.... :-)

Peyton 3-1 vs he and Brady in AFC Title games :thmup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think the coaches now have the players to change things up as needed. Eberflus has already showed he knows how to adjust if something isn’t working. 

 

He did, however the versatility of the Colts defense  was far less than I would like to see in 2019. Actually, for me, one the most intriquing queston right now is how much different the Colts defense will be in 2019? I want Eberflush to spice it up, using less soft zone and more press, man, etc. The fact that they drafted Ya-Sin and Okereke is a good sign. This indicates that 2018 was just a milestone in Eberflus's plans, but not the final destination.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As much as I hate to say it as a fan of the Colts, Bellicheck is the GOAT in NFL history, and that’s including all the amazing players on that list. He led the Pats to all there wins, which is why I don’t think Brady is the GOAT because Bellicheck could probably do that with anyone. If Reich comes anywhere close to that level, we have something special, but that’s not to say Dungy didn’t gameplan. Bellicheck is just a few tiers away from everyone, with the two tiers behind him of all time coaches being empty. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, superrep1967 said:

Yes, but Belichick wouldn't be what he is today without Brady but Brady wouldn't be what he is without Belichick the two found each other and it made them champions 6 times over. I think without each other somebody else would have been winning those championships maybe us some years. 

No doubt, but that can also be said about most successful Coach/QB combos.  It's also why, IMO, Manning is the greatest QB of all time.  Manning went to the Super bowl with four different coaches.  Would Brady have been able to do that?  Possible, I think Brady is a great QB.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that when some people are too rigid in their approach, it could be a sign that they don't know any other way, rather than because they think their way is always the best way.  I often wondered that about Dungy.  

 

Frankly, I also wondered that about Bobby Knight too.  

 

Both are great successes at their profession and received many accolades, but I question whether or not they did what they did to an unwavering degree because of other shortcomings.

 

Dungy was also probably limited by the personnel to do many different things as resources tended to be focused on a few star players.

 

IIRC, Dungy was thought of as a special coach for his approach to the game, discipline, professionalism, and lack of yelling in a league and era where being in people's faces was becoming the norm.  I never really heard of him being talked about as a great X's and O's guy.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whatever Dungy did, he won a s**tload of games at 2 different places, so i'd say his methods were just fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

Chuck Noll and Bud Carson created the Tampa 2 - otherwise known as the "Steel Curtain" in the 70's. Not taking anything away from Dungy though....

 

No they didn't. The roots were indeed the Steel Curtain, but there's nothing in football withouts roots. The tampa2, as the middle lb dropping deep when he reads a pass play was Dungy's and Monte Kiffin-s invention/addition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

No they didn't. The roots were indeed the Steel Curtain, but there's nothing in football withouts roots. The tampa2, as the middle lb dropping deep when he reads a pass play was Dungy's and Monte Kiffin-s invention/addition.

Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion, however, Dungy himself has stated he brought that defense from the 1975 or 1976 playbook.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, DougDew said:

I think that when some people are too rigid in their approach, it could be a sign that they don't know any other way, rather than because they think their way is always the best way.  I often wondered that about Dungy.  

 

Frankly, I also wondered that about Bobby Knight too.  

 

Both are great successes at their profession and received many accolades, but I question whether or not they did what they did to an unwavering degree because of other shortcomings.

 

Dungy was also probably limited by the personnel to do many different things as resources tended to be focused on a few star players.

 

IIRC, Dungy was thought of as a special coach for his approach to the game, discipline, professionalism, and lack of yelling in a league and era where being in people's faces was becoming the norm.  I never really heard of him being talked about as a great X's and O's guy.

 

 Colts fans have bad mouthed Dungy's vannila defenses relentlessly.
 THE reason for only one SB win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, MacDee1975 said:

Whatever Dungy did, he won a s**tload of games at 2 different places, so i'd say his methods were just fine.

He also had a bunch of head scratching defeats in the playoffs. Even at home to teams without their starting QB, RB and TE. 

 

Great man. Average coach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Scott Pennock said:

Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion, however, Dungy himself has stated he brought that defense from the 1975 or 1976 playbook.....

Then he may be taking more credit than what is due, because the Tampa 2 did not excel until Monte Kiffin got involved.  Kiffin specialized in coaching LBs going way back to his early years at Nebraska, IIRC.  And he evolved the position into the LB play/body type that makes the T2 distinguishable from the traditional 43 zone Ds.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Kiffin

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Iron Colt said:

He also had a bunch of head scratching defeats in the playoffs. Even at home to teams without their starting QB, RB and TE. 

 

Great man. Average coach.

"Great man. Average coach." Actually great man, right for Peyton Manning and very good coach. He just wasn't great like Bill Belichick but only a few were like Lombardi, Walsh, Shula, Landry, etc.. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Dungy had the big 3 defensive players he had in Tampa. Colts defense would have won a lot more and he would be considered a genius too. Alas Colts DTs and LBs were t that great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Iron Colt said:

He also had a bunch of head scratching defeats in the playoffs. Even at home to teams without their starting QB, RB and TE. 

 

Great man. Average coach.

 

Sign me up for some average then.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Iron Colt said:

He also had a bunch of head scratching defeats in the playoffs. Even at home to teams without their starting QB, RB and TE. 

Great man. Average coach.

 

Average coach, LOL :D He has the 3rd best winning percentage amongst all coaches in the superbowl era. He has a defensive scheme attached to his name (whatever I or anyone else think about it, that's fact, google it). He is inducted into the HOF. He was the first african american head coach to win a SB. 

 

I just hope Reich will eventually become such an average coach as Dungy was. :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MacDee1975 said:

 

Sign me up for some average then.

See above, I corrected his post. Average is a ridiculous statement. He was very good just not great like Belichick. Pagano was average and some say he was bad. People need to think before they hit send lmao 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh come on. All those great Manning teams and he went to one Superbowl. They called him one and Dun-gy for a reason. 

 

In the playoffs, he was bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

Average coach, LOL :D He has the 3rd best winning percentage amongst all coaches in the superbowl era. He has a defensive scheme attached to his name (whatever I or anyone else think about it, that's fact, google it). He is inducted into the HOF. He was the first african american head coach to win a SB. 

 

I just hope Reich will eventually become such an average coach as Dungy was. :)

Having it attached to his name doesn't mean he invented it or was instrumental in how it was successfully run in Tampa....the attachment could be a simple summary or even political......noticing that it was less successful in Indy without Kiffin.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Iron Colt said:

Oh come on. All those great Manning teams and he went to one Superbowl. They called him one and Dun-gy for a reason. 

 

In the playoffs, he was bad.

In 2006 he was saying the champ is here muhammad ali muslim GIF by Film Society of Lincoln Center

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Iron Colt said:

Oh come on. All those great Manning teams and he went to one Superbowl. They called him one and Dun-gy for a reason. 

 

In the playoffs, he was bad.

 

So let me understand this. When they won in the playoffs it was the Manning-led teams. When they lost it was on Dungy?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Peyton 3-1 vs he and Brady in AFC Title games :thmup:

Peyton>Brady

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Iron Colt said:

Oh come on. All those great Manning teams and he went to one Superbowl. They called him one and Dun-gy for a reason. 

 

In the playoffs, he was bad.

 

No one called him that. You're trolling.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/17/2019 at 1:15 PM, Coffeedrinker said:

Oh look, another Patriots fan pretending to be a Colts fan. 

Pretty bold assumption from one little post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Thread of the Week

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I rewatched the game as I thought this would be pretty strange as well.  He did not play in the fourth except for his usual special teams slot.     I was confused as well by those who say he had a bad game.  He gave up one completion where he got turned around.  Other than that he was glued to his man as usual.    I think he's still having trouble living down his reputation from his rookie year. 
    • depth wise, S, OL, and iDL are my biggest concerns. if folks were grading positions ( starters and depth), i'd be surprised if many graded safety in the top half.  outside of Hooker, lots of questions, at least to me. i definitely don't agree with Venturi. ESPN doesn't either. Hopefully the starters stay healthy, and Willis grows into a stud.
    • lol... you wrote a novel. while i didn't read it all, i did skim. the mock draft stuff, it wasn't a poll. it was a well defined systemic grading. if you're mom can do well on the 1st round, why didn't your favorite guys? lol. on the wide receiver study, it was laughable. no defined parameters, no comparative cross position stats, etc.. not even Busch league stuff.  like i said, legend in your own mind.   in terms of who can dish it out, but can't take it, look at your reaction above to a "sad".... what a rant/tantrum.....  self awareness is obviously not your strongest trait. feel free to "crush" me anytime... gives me a good laugh.
    • very astute observations!!
    • You live your life like the Coyote chasing the Road Runner....    and you keep running into the mountain side,  or running off the cliff....     OK....    you're not going to change....   So, I'll take apart your nonsense --- again.    This will be the longest post I've ever made,  trying to answer all your nonsense.    Doubt you'll read it.    But here it comes....     Of course we know if Luck's injury, whatever it is,  ISN'T minor.   What minor injury do you know lasts four months?    He barely participated in any off-season program.    Does that sound like a minor injury?    The Colts have NEVER, EVER called it minor.   Not once.  The only thing they've said is he hopes to be back by certain deadlines,  and he's missed almost every one.    Does that sound like a minor injury?    This paragraph may confuse you.   It's full of common sense and logic.   I don't know how you got the nerve to try to argue that no one knows.   Unbelieveable!   Nope.   No Tantrum from me.   Just pointing ot what should be obvious,  but apparently the obvious isn't obvious to you.     By the way,  while you were giving me a sad on my post to my friend CBE,   do you know who was giving me a "like"?    CBE.    I criticized his post and he still gave me a like.    He know while we may not agree,  he knows I'm not trying to pound him.   I'm  trying to be as honest and factual as I can.    No wonder you can't see for yourself.   What triggered me, was your latest attempt to sound like you know what you're talking about.   You judged Willis on half of the first pre-season game.    That's all you've got.    That's it.   Doesn't even occur to you that that is.....   NOTHING!    Hello?    And you present it like it should be taken seriously,  when it should be laughed at.    Goodness gracious, you want to go back to the media draft comparison?    I was hoping for your sake that you wouldn't.    But since you insist.     Did you ever really look at that poll?   Seriously,  did you look at the four category breakdown?    Did you see what was actually involved?    If you did,  you shouldn't have been crowing about it.    First,  what I care about from guys like Kiper and McShay and Jeremiah and others isn't just the first round.   My  momma can do a decent job on the first round, and she's been dead for nearly 30 years!    I care about their view on ALL ROUNDS.   And your survey was only about the first round.   That's it.   There were four categories.    In three of them,  the leader got no more than 50%.   That's it.   The best person in three of the four categories scored no more than 50 percent.   When the top guy is scoring no more than 50 percent and everyone else is close behind,  then no one really knows anything.    And the one category that the winner did well in --- one category --- he scored in the 90's.   And everyone else was right behind him.    So, most everyone did well in ONE OUT OF THE FOUR categories.   Big stinking deal.    I tried to tell you this silly survey didn't support what you believed but you wouldn't listen.   No surprise there.  All you cared about the results.   The fatal flaw.     Finally,  without a single fact,  you offered this opinion in that post.    I remember it like it was yesterday,  that your new age guys were doing a better job than the more traditional scouts.   Based on one poll.   One poll of one round.    And you said the older guys like Kiper and company were resting on their laurels and not working as hard.   Nope, the old guys were covering all seven rounds.    Most of your guys,  covering one round.   You have no facts to support that, but that's your view.    When logic and common sense would tell you that the guys I prefer make a ton more money and have their reputation at stake.    They have more to lose.    There's no way they're resting on anything.    But you'll say ANYTHING to try and prove a point.   There's no argument you won't twist to try to win an argument, no matter how foolish the argument is.   I've told you publicly and privately,  you're not interested in honest debate.   You're the least honest poster here.  You're only interested in winning and you'll do anything, say anything to do that.      As to the WR study.    You got crushed.   I'm talking about a bank safe fell on you and your response was to talk about cherry picking stats.    Either English is a second language or you don't know the meaning of the words.     I made two links for you.    One was almost identical to yours.    Yours covered 25 years dating back to a time when passing rules were dramatically different so comparing a receiver from 1990 to one from 2018 was silly.   We're playig a different game now.    My first link covered 20 years from 1995 to 2014 .   There was great over-lap in the two studies.  But the conclusions were entirely different.   The only reason I used it was your post said roughly 60% percent of 1st Round WR's were successes.    Mine said roughly 40%.   Guess which one you preferred?    Surprise!   Then the second link was one of my own making.    I listed every 1st round WR since Luck came into the league in 2012.  That's 7 years.   The last 7 years.   I put into bold each 1st Round WR who was clearly a success.   It came to 41%.   It also showed how few WR's have been taken in the last few drafts.   That's the NFL talking, in case you weren't paying attention.    You didn't dispute one WR.    Not one.   But you called it cherry picking.   Clearly you don't know how to use that expression correctly.    And now you throw out a list of criteria as if you're making the rules here.   Here's another free tip.   You're not.   Never have.   I'm not surprised you don't recognize the facts I put into posts.   You don't use them.   You're all about the opinion.   Most posters here are.   Because that means every single poster can simply say.....    "I'm entitled to my opinion."    Yes, they are.   Everyone is,  even you, who has no need for facts.    But what you're not entitled to is your own facts.    Just like you stated Funchess was a terrible signing based on your facts,  and it never even occured to you that Ballard and Reich had other facts that showed DF could be useful to us.    You actually thought you knew more than they did?!?    Again, unbelieveable.   You had no facts to support your nonsense about Reich being a poor play caller.   You had one game.   And I called you on it.   You've been doing a very bad back-peddle ever since,  but that's your view, with no facts to support it.   In fact all the facts support the exact opposite view.   Yet, you still try to claim victory.   It's so intellectually dishonest that it's nauseating.   And so I observed,  that with almost nothing to base it on,  you thought Willis has inconsistancies.    Thanks, Capt. Obvious.    Tomorrow will likely be sunny during the day,  turning to widely scattered darkness at night.    Anymore obvious insights?   Funny, how you now publicly call for me to ignore your posts,  when a few days ago,  in a thread I was barely even in,  you took a completely uncalled for shot at me.    Or does the phrase "legend in his own mind" not mean anything to you?      Bottom line....    you can dish it out,  especially when you think no one is looking.....   but you can't take it.   Glass ego.   I call a fraud a fraud.   
  • Members

    • Fluke_33

      Fluke_33 837

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • MikeCurtis

      MikeCurtis 1,265

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • ManningGM

      ManningGM 515

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • coltsfeva

      coltsfeva 1,181

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • NFLfan

      NFLfan 7,795

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • SteelCityColt

      SteelCityColt 6,908

      Moderators
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • jskinnz

      jskinnz 5,348

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • ar1888

      ar1888 292

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • TonyBungee

      TonyBungee 198

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Melancholie

      Melancholie 3

      Rookie
      Joined:
      Last active:
×
×
  • Create New...