Dungy 'Do what we do' vs Belichick gameplans

[Iron Colt]

Does anybody else think that the Dungy(and to be fair a lot of other coaches)way of game planning is just lazy compared to Belichick and the way that he specifically game plans for each game.

Hopefully Reich is closer to Belichick than Dungy. I'd like to see a coach that can game plan and adjust rather than just 'do what we do'.

[Peterk2011]

I need you to explain "lazy" before I can answer. Dungy is a HOF coach, who invented a defensive scheme, that changed the game back in his time. Very few coaches can say that in the history of football. And he did specifically game plan for each game. As every team & coach did and does for quite a long time.

 

Regarding Reich, I like him, I think the Colts found a - kinda - hidden gem in him. However, he has a long, long way to get to where Dungy is/was, not to mention be better than him...

[Superman]

Not lazy. Rigid, sure, probably to a fault, IMO, especially in a league that was undergoing dramatic change at the time.

 

But Dungy's focus was on fundamentals and execution, and he was a great teacher who expressed clearly what he expected from his players. I think those are valuable traits for a coach, or any leader.

 

Belichick does the same, and is rigid himself, but in different ways. He has an unparalleled football mind and outstanding instincts, and he has a system that employs a lot of different approaches on game day, but they all center on fundamentals and execution. They've made a lot out of his 'do your job' mantra in recent years, and that's all about players being where they're supposed to be, doing what they're supposed to do. He acquires smart players who have scheme versatility, so his system can be adjusted as necessary.

 

Because of his way of seeing the game, he can develop opponent specific gameplans as he sees fit. And because his players buy in and are able to make adjustments on the fly, he can deploy them in different ways from week to week. 

 

This is unique to Belichick, as far as I'm concerned. No one has shown the ability to do what he does, successfully, over a considerable period of time. Comparing anyone to him is unfair at the start.

 

By the way, the offenses Manning was in charge of were rigid, focused on fundamentals and execution, not a lot of window dressing, no motion, very few formations -- they just did what they did, but they did it better than anyone else, and it worked. We'd never call Manning's approach lazy, but it's far different from what Belichick's teams do.

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, Iron Colt said:

Does anybody else think that the Dungy(and to be fair a lot of other coaches)way of game planning is just lazy compared to Belichick and the way that he specifically game plans for each game.

Hopefully Reich is closer to Belichick than Dungy. I'd like to see a coach that can game plan and adjust rather than just 'do what we do'.

Oh look, another Patriots fan pretending to be a Colts fan.  Dungy specifically game planned for each game as well. 

 

What makes BB different and why he's a great coach is because most coaches develop a game plan to attack the opponent's biggest weakness.  BB game plans to attack an opponents biggest strength because if he takes away a team's strength then they have to rely on a weakness to win the game.

[NorthernBlue]

I feel like belicheck isn’t straight up changing his system or scheme for opponents. Rather, he identifies the strength and weakness of his opponents, and exploits them based off his own schemes and players’ strengths and weaknesses. He’s able to do this  BECAUSE of how versatile his scheme and personnel are. And that starts with the fundamentals and execution y’all alluded to just now.

 

The Pats are the epitome of versatility. There’s not ‘one specific way’ they win football games. While other teams’ identities are based off play style (example, Manning’s colts being an offensive juggernaut), NE’s identity has always been that ‘do your job’ mentality that thrives on fundamentals and execution.

[EastStreet]

Belichick is just a damn good coach. Both from a game plan perspective, and getting the most out of his guys. He simply was a wizard, and his guys executed. He also was a genius at roster management.

 

Yes, the GOAT in a hoodie.

 

 

[Superman]

41 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

Belichick is just a damn good coach.

 

#understatement

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

#understatement

i did call him the GOAT, wizard, and a genius too.... :-)

[coltsfeva]

1 hour ago, Irish YJ said:

Belichick is just a damn good coach. Both from a game plan perspective, and getting the most out of his guys. He simply was a wizard, and his guys executed. He also was a genius at roster management.

 

Yes, the GOAT in a hoodie.

 

 

  The main reason I can’t see Brady as the QB GOAT.... he never had to outsmart him on game day.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I think the coaches now have the players to change things up as needed. Eberflus has already showed he knows how to adjust if something isn’t working. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, NorthernBlue said:

I feel like belicheck isn’t straight up changing his system or scheme for opponents. Rather, he identifies the strength and weakness of his opponents, and exploits them based off his own schemes and players’ strengths and weaknesses. He’s able to do this  BECAUSE of how versatile his scheme and personnel are. And that starts with the fundamentals and execution y’all alluded to just now.

 

The Pats are the epitome of versatility. There’s not ‘one specific way’ they win football games. While other teams’ identities are based off play style (example, Manning’s colts being an offensive juggernaut), NE’s identity has always been that ‘do your job’ mentality that thrives on fundamentals and execution.

We seem to be building the same type of versatile team here in Indy. It’s very exciting.

[Devildog]

I would like to be "LAZY" and still get paid millions.  

 

Now that's a dream job. 

[Iron Colt]

I guess lazy is the wrong word. Rigid or not wanting to get out of your comfort zone is more appropriate than mentally lazy. 

Dungy was a Tampa 2 guy but you never saw him on the sideline talking to the linebackers or other position groups like you do with Belichick.

[Scott Pennock]

4 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

I need you to explain "lazy" before I can answer. Dungy is a HOF coach, who invented a defensive scheme, that changed the game back in his time. Very few coaches can say that in the history of football. And he did specifically game plan for each game. As every team & coach did and does for quite a long time.

 

Regarding Reich, I like him, I think the Colts found a - kinda - hidden gem in him. However, he has a long, long way to get to where Dungy is/was, not to mention be better than him...

Chuck Noll and Bud Carson created the Tampa 2 - otherwise known as the "Steel Curtain" in the 70's. Not taking anything away from Dungy though....

[Scott Pennock]

Frank Reich will gameplan against a defense, that much I'm sure of.

 

Eberflus certainly has some "tools" now to generate game specific plans now.

[superrep1967]

10 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Oh look, another Patriots fan pretending to be a Colts fan.  Dungy specifically game planned for each game as well. 

 

What makes BB different and why he's a great coach is because most coaches develop a game plan to attack the opponent's biggest weakness.  BB game plans to attack an opponents biggest strength because if he takes away a team's strength then they have to rely on a weakness to win the game.

Yes, but Belichick wouldn't be what he is today without Brady but Brady wouldn't be what he is without Belichick the two found each other and it made them champions 6 times over. I think without each other somebody else would have been winning those championships maybe us some years. 

[jskinnz]

11 hours ago, Iron Colt said:

I guess lazy is the wrong word. Rigid or not wanting to get out of your comfort zone is more appropriate than mentally lazy. 

Dungy was a Tampa 2 guy but you never saw him on the sideline talking to the linebackers or other position groups like you do with Belichick.

 

I think you started a bad thread with poorly chosen words and followed it up with more nonsense. I’d bail if I were you. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

13 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

i did call him the GOAT, wizard, and a genius too.... :-)

Peyton 3-1 vs he and Brady in AFC Title games 

[Peterk2011]

12 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think the coaches now have the players to change things up as needed. Eberflus has already showed he knows how to adjust if something isn’t working. 

 

He did, however the versatility of the Colts defense  was far less than I would like to see in 2019. Actually, for me, one the most intriquing queston right now is how much different the Colts defense will be in 2019? I want Eberflush to spice it up, using less soft zone and more press, man, etc. The fact that they drafted Ya-Sin and Okereke is a good sign. This indicates that 2018 was just a milestone in Eberflus's plans, but not the final destination.

[WarGhost21]

As much as I hate to say it as a fan of the Colts, Bellicheck is the GOAT in NFL history, and that’s including all the amazing players on that list. He led the Pats to all there wins, which is why I don’t think Brady is the GOAT because Bellicheck could probably do that with anyone. If Reich comes anywhere close to that level, we have something special, but that’s not to say Dungy didn’t gameplan. Bellicheck is just a few tiers away from everyone, with the two tiers behind him of all time coaches being empty. 

[Coffeedrinker]

5 hours ago, superrep1967 said:

Yes, but Belichick wouldn't be what he is today without Brady but Brady wouldn't be what he is without Belichick the two found each other and it made them champions 6 times over. I think without each other somebody else would have been winning those championships maybe us some years. 

No doubt, but that can also be said about most successful Coach/QB combos.  It's also why, IMO, Manning is the greatest QB of all time.  Manning went to the Super bowl with four different coaches.  Would Brady have been able to do that?  Possible, I think Brady is a great QB.

 

 

 

 

[DougDew]

I think that when some people are too rigid in their approach, it could be a sign that they don't know any other way, rather than because they think their way is always the best way.  I often wondered that about Dungy.  

 

Frankly, I also wondered that about Bobby Knight too.  

 

Both are great successes at their profession and received many accolades, but I question whether or not they did what they did to an unwavering degree because of other shortcomings.

 

Dungy was also probably limited by the personnel to do many different things as resources tended to be focused on a few star players.

 

IIRC, Dungy was thought of as a special coach for his approach to the game, discipline, professionalism, and lack of yelling in a league and era where being in people's faces was becoming the norm.  I never really heard of him being talked about as a great X's and O's guy.

[MacDee1975]

Whatever Dungy did, he won a s**tload of games at 2 different places, so i'd say his methods were just fine.

[Peterk2011]

16 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

Chuck Noll and Bud Carson created the Tampa 2 - otherwise known as the "Steel Curtain" in the 70's. Not taking anything away from Dungy though....

 

No they didn't. The roots were indeed the Steel Curtain, but there's nothing in football withouts roots. The tampa2, as the middle lb dropping deep when he reads a pass play was Dungy's and Monte Kiffin-s invention/addition.

[Scott Pennock]

32 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

No they didn't. The roots were indeed the Steel Curtain, but there's nothing in football withouts roots. The tampa2, as the middle lb dropping deep when he reads a pass play was Dungy's and Monte Kiffin-s invention/addition.

Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion, however, Dungy himself has stated he brought that defense from the 1975 or 1976 playbook.....

[throwing BBZ]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

I think that when some people are too rigid in their approach, it could be a sign that they don't know any other way, rather than because they think their way is always the best way.  I often wondered that about Dungy.  

 

Frankly, I also wondered that about Bobby Knight too.  

 

Both are great successes at their profession and received many accolades, but I question whether or not they did what they did to an unwavering degree because of other shortcomings.

 

Dungy was also probably limited by the personnel to do many different things as resources tended to be focused on a few star players.

 

IIRC, Dungy was thought of as a special coach for his approach to the game, discipline, professionalism, and lack of yelling in a league and era where being in people's faces was becoming the norm.  I never really heard of him being talked about as a great X's and O's guy.

 

 Colts fans have bad mouthed Dungy's vannila defenses relentlessly.
 THE reason for only one SB win.

[Iron Colt]

4 hours ago, MacDee1975 said:

Whatever Dungy did, he won a s**tload of games at 2 different places, so i'd say his methods were just fine.

He also had a bunch of head scratching defeats in the playoffs. Even at home to teams without their starting QB, RB and TE. 

 

Great man. Average coach.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Scott Pennock said:

Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion, however, Dungy himself has stated he brought that defense from the 1975 or 1976 playbook.....

Then he may be taking more credit than what is due, because the Tampa 2 did not excel until Monte Kiffin got involved.  Kiffin specialized in coaching LBs going way back to his early years at Nebraska, IIRC.  And he evolved the position into the LB play/body type that makes the T2 distinguishable from the traditional 43 zone Ds.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Kiffin

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

30 minutes ago, Iron Colt said:

He also had a bunch of head scratching defeats in the playoffs. Even at home to teams without their starting QB, RB and TE. 

 

Great man. Average coach.

"Great man. Average coach." Actually great man, right for Peyton Manning and very good coach. He just wasn't great like Bill Belichick but only a few were like Lombardi, Walsh, Shula, Landry, etc.. 

[LockeDown]

If Dungy had the big 3 defensive players he had in Tampa. Colts defense would have won a lot more and he would be considered a genius too. Alas Colts DTs and LBs were t that great.

[MacDee1975]

2 hours ago, Iron Colt said:

He also had a bunch of head scratching defeats in the playoffs. Even at home to teams without their starting QB, RB and TE. 

 

Great man. Average coach.

 

Sign me up for some average then.

[Peterk2011]

3 hours ago, Iron Colt said:

He also had a bunch of head scratching defeats in the playoffs. Even at home to teams without their starting QB, RB and TE. 

Great man. Average coach.

 

Average coach, LOL He has the 3rd best winning percentage amongst all coaches in the superbowl era. He has a defensive scheme attached to his name (whatever I or anyone else think about it, that's fact, google it). He is inducted into the HOF. He was the first african american head coach to win a SB. 

 

I just hope Reich will eventually become such an average coach as Dungy was.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, MacDee1975 said:

 

Sign me up for some average then.

See above, I corrected his post. Average is a ridiculous statement. He was very good just not great like Belichick. Pagano was average and some say he was bad. People need to think before they hit send  

[Iron Colt]

Oh come on. All those great Manning teams and he went to one Superbowl. They called him one and Dun-gy for a reason. 

 

In the playoffs, he was bad.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

Average coach, LOL He has the 3rd best winning percentage amongst all coaches in the superbowl era. He has a defensive scheme attached to his name (whatever I or anyone else think about it, that's fact, google it). He is inducted into the HOF. He was the first african american head coach to win a SB. 

 

I just hope Reich will eventually become such an average coach as Dungy was.

Having it attached to his name doesn't mean he invented it or was instrumental in how it was successfully run in Tampa....the attachment could be a simple summary or even political......noticing that it was less successful in Indy without Kiffin.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

36 minutes ago, Iron Colt said:

Oh come on. All those great Manning teams and he went to one Superbowl. They called him one and Dun-gy for a reason. 

 

In the playoffs, he was bad.

In 2006 he was saying the champ is here 

[jskinnz]

1 hour ago, Iron Colt said:

Oh come on. All those great Manning teams and he went to one Superbowl. They called him one and Dun-gy for a reason. 

 

In the playoffs, he was bad.

 

So let me understand this. When they won in the playoffs it was the Manning-led teams. When they lost it was on Dungy?

[EastStreet]

16 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Peyton 3-1 vs he and Brady in AFC Title games 

Peyton>Brady

[Superman]

15 hours ago, Iron Colt said:

Oh come on. All those great Manning teams and he went to one Superbowl. They called him one and Dun-gy for a reason. 

 

In the playoffs, he was bad.

 

No one called him that. You're trolling.

[gspdx]

On 7/17/2019 at 1:15 PM, Coffeedrinker said:

Oh look, another Patriots fan pretending to be a Colts fan. 

Pretty bold assumption from one little post.