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NannyMcafee

Andrew Luck vs Peyton Manning.

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Andrew is a great talent. And I have faith he can take us to many SB wins... I have been watching a lot of highlights of Colts of the 2000s, and Peyton Mannings touch on throws, just put you in awe of the amazingness of such a pass. How many touchdowns in the back corner of the endzone have we seen? 

 

Andrew is great and I wouldnt trade him for any in the league today. He doesn't have elite touch on his throws. And that's not to say he doesn't hit his windows. He does most of the time but I have yet to see his touch on throws reach that hight. It may be a boring observation but most are at this time of year. Is it preseason yet? 

 

One of Andrew's elite abilities is his pocket awareness from day one. 

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14 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

Andrew is a great talent. And I have faith he can take us to many SB wins... I have been watching a lot of highlights of Colts of the 2000s, and Peyton Mannings touch on throws, just put you in awe of the amazingness of such a pass. How many touchdowns in the back corner of the endzone have we seen? 

 

Andrew is great and I wouldnt trade him for any in the league today. He doesn't have elite touch on his throws. And that's not to say he doesn't hit his windows. He does most of the time but I have yet to see his touch on throws reach that hight. It may be a boring observation but most are at this time of year. Is it preseason yet? 

 

One of Andrew's elite abilities is his pocket awareness from day one. 

Andrew will have to win a SB and a couple of MVP's to be put in Peyton's convo IMO. Andrew is very good if not great already though. Peyton is a Mt Rushmore QB IMO with Brady, Montana, and Unitas. That is the elite of the elite.

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My favorite QB on the Colts was BERT JONES he never won any SB but what and arm and tough as they come:thmup:

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I personally would never wish to compare them as it may lessen one or the other....

 

They are equal in my eyes. That includes Johnny. My three favorite QB's of all time. 

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20 minutes ago, colts8718 said:

My favorite QB on the Colts was BERT JONES he never won any SB but what and arm and tough as they come:thmup:

He won a MVP though :thmup:

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Andrew is Andrew and Peyton is Peyton. Whats next? Reggie vs Marv?

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Through the early parts of their careers they are very comparable, let's see what impact Luck has for the next ten years before we start saying who had greater influence on the franchise. I love me some PM... I love me some AL.  The jury is still out on the question.

Mr. Luck still has some work to do!

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10 hours ago, Four2itus said:

I personally would never wish to compare them as it may lessen one or the other....

 

They are equal in my eyes. That includes Johnny. My three favorite QB's of all time. 

I actually threw up in my mouth after reading this at 4 in the morning. They are nowhere near equal. Peyton Manning made 4 SB's and won 2, Luck hasn't even won a SB. Peyton won 5 MVP's, Luck hasn't won any. Peyton is literally a top 3 QB of all time, and a lot of his playing time was before the extreme passing era of today. Luck "might" be a top 3 QB today if he's lucky. 

 

You are lessening and insulting Peyton by saying Luck is equal to him in your eyes. Luck is clearly not equal yet, and you know it.

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11 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Andrew will have to win a SB and a couple of MVP's to be put in Peyton's convo IMO. Andrew is very good if not great already though. Peyton is a Mt Rushmore QB IMO with Brady, Montana, and Unitas. That is the elite of the elite.

He would still be below Peyton to me. Luck has to win at least two SB's for me to crown him in the same league as Peyton. He'll never win 5 MVP's. To me, Luck has underperformed his hype so far. I love making the playoffs, but it's pointless if we can't overcome the top AFC teams when we reach it. Until Luck beats Mahomes, I have that sick feeling that the Chiefs are going to be the new-age Patriots that beat us every year. I trust Ballard and believe the team is better, but I'm conditioned right now where I don't trust Andrew in the playoffs.

 

I hope he proves me wrong.

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11 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

Andrew is a great talent. And I have faith he can take us to many SB wins... I have been watching a lot of highlights of Colts of the 2000s, and Peyton Mannings touch on throws, just put you in awe of the amazingness of such a pass. How many touchdowns in the back corner of the endzone have we seen? 

 

Andrew is great and I wouldnt trade him for any in the league today. He doesn't have elite touch on his throws. And that's not to say he doesn't hit his windows. He does most of the time but I have yet to see his touch on throws reach that hight. It may be a boring observation but most are at this time of year. Is it preseason yet? 

 

One of Andrew's elite abilities is his pocket awareness from day one. 

I'm curious, and be unbiased, why wouldn't you trade him for Mahomes? Mahomes is arguably better than Luck already and he's six years younger. Even if you want to argue that Luck would do as well as Mahomes with Mahomes receivers, Mahomes is still six years younger if they are equal! With Ballard as GM, that's an extra SB or two we can win in a 16 year span with Mahomes rather than the next 10 years with Luck.

 

I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, in fact if offered, it'd be the best thing for the Colts franchise to extend our SB lifespan. It'd be a way of making up for the years of Luck's career wasted by Grigson.

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20 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I'm curious, and be unbiased, why wouldn't you trade him for Mahomes? Mahomes is arguably better than Luck already and he's six years younger. Even if you want to argue that Luck would do as well as Mahomes with Mahomes receivers, Mahomes is still six years younger if they are equal! With Ballard as GM, that's an extra SB or two we can win in a 16 year span with Mahomes rather than the next 10 years with Luck.

 

I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, in fact if offered, it'd be the best thing for the Colts franchise to extend our SB lifespan. It'd be a way of making up for the years of Luck's career wasted by Grigson.

Mahomes has been in the league for 1 year.   Not a chance in heck that I would make that trade.  I've seen too many "flash in the pan" players in the NFL. 

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3 minutes ago, Myles said:

Mahomes has been in the league for 1 year.   Not a chance in heck that I would make that trade.  I've seen too many "flash in the pan" players in the NFL. 

5000 yards and 50 tds is a "flash in the pan"? Name me one other flash in the pan player that has done that, I'll be waiting. You're punishing him for his age, which is the reason that season was so special. Your evidence of that claim is 0, and you're just hoping (like all of us) that he is. As of now, he's played one year, and he's an MVP.

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19 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

5000 yards and 50 tds is a "flash in the pan"? Name me one other flash in the pan player that has done that, I'll be waiting. You're punishing him for his age, which is the reason that season was so special. Your evidence of that claim is 0, and you're just hoping (like all of us) that he is. As of now, he's played one year, and he's an MVP.

 

I have only watched mahomes play for one year, and while that year was fantastic, I have yet to see him carry the chiefs to these wins. I have yet to see how great a leader he is. He could be elite. But let's see if he can repeat his success with less talent than he had last year before saying we would trade Andrew for him. 

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1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I actually threw up in my mouth after reading this at 4 in the morning. They are nowhere near equal. Peyton Manning made 4 SB's and won 2, Luck hasn't even won a SB. Peyton won 5 MVP's, Luck hasn't won any. Peyton is literally a top 3 QB of all time, and a lot of his playing time was before the extreme passing era of today. Luck "might" be a top 3 QB today if he's lucky. 

 

You are lessening and insulting Peyton by saying Luck is equal to him in your eyes. Luck is clearly not equal yet, and you know it.

And yet I didn’t see anywhere in the first post where the author tried to make these claims.

 

I get it you don’t like Luck. You have shown over and over your disdain for him. But this attack was unnecessary and a pile on.

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40 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

5000 yards and 50 tds is a "flash in the pan"? Name me one other flash in the pan player that has done that, I'll be waiting. You're punishing him for his age, which is the reason that season was so special. Your evidence of that claim is 0, and you're just hoping (like all of us) that he is. As of now, he's played one year, and he's an MVP.

 

 

In 3 of Andrew Lucks years he has displayed enough to be voted as MVP of this league. 2014 he had 4700 yards and 40 TDs, but lost the MVP to Aaron Roger's who 4300 yards and 38 TDs. 

 

In 2016 Matt Ryan had 4900 yards and 38 TDs. Compared to Andrew who had 4200 yards and 32 TDs. 

 

In 2017 Tom Brady won the MVP with 4500 yards and 32 TDs. Andrew had zero. 

 

In 2018 Mahomes had 5000 yards and 50 TDs. Andrew had 4500 yards and 39 touchdowns. 

 

If you look at the MVPs every year since Andrew was drafted the numbers hover right around 4500 yards and avg 35 TDs. Only twice has a QB reached 50 TDs. Mahomes threw 50 last year, and Manning threw for 55 in 2013. 

 

Andrew has displayed these numbers pretty consistently through his career. Drew Brees just threw for nearly 6000 yards not so long ago. Broke the most yards thrown in a career and yet.... no MVP. 

 

MVP voting is a popularity contest. It is no secret. 

 

If you look at Tom Bradys career, is avg hangs around 4300 yards and 30-35 TDs. Only once he had 50 and never before or since then, has he even gotten 40. 39 is the most he had in his career. You know. The guy who the NFL crowned GOAT. and that's nearly 18 years of football. 

 

Just so you know, a QBs greatness doesn't fall on how many MVPs he has. Andrew has displayed MVP numbers.

 

 

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Just sayin, when a guy like Blake Bortles can have a 4428/35TD season, we should never use stats again for MVP consideration.

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3 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

5000 yards and 50 tds is a "flash in the pan"? Name me one other flash in the pan player that has done that, I'll be waiting. You're punishing him for his age, which is the reason that season was so special. Your evidence of that claim is 0, and you're just hoping (like all of us) that he is. As of now, he's played one year, and he's an MVP.

You don't watch football do you?    You just look at the stats.

 

 

Mahomes may end up being an all time great, but he also may end up being a Dak Prescott.   Prescott led the Cowboys to a 13-3 record his rookie year.   25 TD's 4 INT's.   RG3 had a great rookie season too.   1 season is just that.....1 season.

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2 minutes ago, Myles said:

You don't watch football do you?    You just look at the stats.

 

 

Mahomes may end up being an all time great, but he also may end up being a Dak Prescott.   Prescott led the Cowboys to a 13-3 record his rookie year.   25 TD's 4 INT's.   RG3 had a great rookie season too.   1 season is just that.....1 season.

So you got nothing. You try and compare Dak to Mahomes (half the tds), and RGIII (a read option QB). Those guys rookie seasons stunk compared to Mahomes. Mahomes carries the team, Dak is a game manager, and RGIII could never throw an accurate pass longer than 10 yards.

 

Mahomes crushed these guys. No reason to think he'll fall off the map besides a slight decline except for the fact we all want him to so the Colts can make a few SB's.

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1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

So you got nothing. You try and compare Dak to Mahomes (half the tds), and RGIII (a read option QB). Those guys rookie seasons stunk compared to Mahomes. Mahomes carries the team, Dak is a game manager, and RGIII could never throw an accurate pass longer than 10 yards.

 

Mahomes crushed these guys. No reason to think he'll fall off the map besides a slight decline except for the fact we all want him to so the Colts can make a few SB's.

Feel free to fear him.

 

I think his stats will drop. By a bunch. He is a fine QB, but not the second coming. 

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1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

So you got nothing. You try and compare Dak to Mahomes (half the tds), and RGIII (a read option QB). Those guys rookie seasons stunk compared to Mahomes. Mahomes carries the team, Dak is a game manager, and RGIII could never throw an accurate pass longer than 10 yards.

 

Mahomes crushed these guys. No reason to think he'll fall off the map besides a slight decline except for the fact we all want him to so the Colts can make a few SB's.

I'll take sustained success over 1 season any day.   

In 2017 he threw for zero TD's.   He threw only INT's in 2017.   He must really suck according to those numbers.   You on board with that?

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5 minutes ago, IndySouthsider said:

Feel free to fear him.

 

I think his stats will drop. By a bunch. He is a fine QB, but not the second coming. 

He might be.   We just don't know.    Being willing to trade Luck for a (currently) one hit wonder is not smart.   Thankfully not our GM.

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5 minutes ago, Myles said:

I'll take sustained success over 1 season any day.   

In 2017 he threw for zero TD's.   He threw only INT's in 2017.   He must really suck according to those numbers.   You on board with that?

I believe he played 4 games. So whatever you want to think. He had to learn for a year behind Alex Smith. Pretty obvious it clicked for him. 

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Mahomes had an outstanding year last year in his first full year of starting. We need to see how he does this year with a full year of tape out here.

 

Hard to argue with the season he had last year. But honestly would be surprised if he puts that up again this year - not that I don't think he will still have a good season. I, for one, am not ready to concede he is better than Luck just off of last year, although I think he is very good bare minimum.

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4 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

5000 yards and 50 tds is a "flash in the pan"? Name me one other flash in the pan player that has done that, I'll be waiting. You're punishing him for his age, which is the reason that season was so special. Your evidence of that claim is 0, and you're just hoping (like all of us) that he is. As of now, he's played one year, and he's an MVP.

Someone needs to turn in their Colts gear, and stock up on KC swag.

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5 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

He would still be below Peyton to me. Luck has to win at least two SB's for me to crown him in the same league as Peyton. He'll never win 5 MVP's. To me, Luck has underperformed his hype so far. I love making the playoffs, but it's pointless if we can't overcome the top AFC teams when we reach it. Until Luck beats Mahomes, I have that sick feeling that the Chiefs are going to be the new-age Patriots that beat us every year. I trust Ballard and believe the team is better, but I'm conditioned right now where I don't trust Andrew in the playoffs.

 

I hope he proves me wrong.

Hes underperformed to this point Pagano was his Head Coach for too long. and the Chiefs are good but they dont have a defense and Mahomes was surrounded by all pro playmakers, he wont throw 50tds again.

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6 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

He would still be below Peyton to me. 1.) Luck has to win at least two SB's for me to crown him in the same league as Peyton.  2.) He'll never win 5 MVP's. 3.) To me, Luck has underperformed his hype so far. I love making the playoffs, but it's pointless if we can't overcome the top AFC teams when we reach it. Until Luck beats Mahomes, I have that sick feeling that the Chiefs are going to be the new-age Patriots that beat us every year. I trust Ballard and believe the team is better, but I'm conditioned right now where I don't trust Andrew in the playoffs.

 

I hope he proves me wrong.

Addressing your points in bold, in numerical order:

 

1.) Luck has to win at least two SB's for me to crown him in the same league as Peyton:

You are comparing the entirety of Manning's career vs. the half way mark for Luck. Also, football is the ultimate team game. Marino was outstanding and never won a Super Bowl, yet, I and many others consider him to be among the best ever. The last Super Bowl that Manning won, he was average (if that). It was the Bronco's defense that gift wrapped a going away present for Manning.

 

2.) He'll never win 5 MVP's.

He'll never win 5 popularity contests. So what? He's already had several MVP worthy seasons as noted earlier in this thread.

 

3.) To me, Luck has under performed his hype so far.

This argument bothers me the most, simply because I don't know what else he needs to do to live up to the hype. He was the #1 draft pick with a ton of hype coming out of Stanford, joining the Colts and following Manning. There was immense pressure on him to perform. So what does he do? He leads the 2012 Colts (a team completely devoid of talent -- going 2-14 the year before) to the playoffs. Along the way, he sets records for most yards thrown by a rookie QB in NFL history. Set the single-game rookie record with 433 yards passing. Set the record for most 300-yard games as a rookie (six 300-yard games). And he did all of this with a horrible O-line and NO run game, and a pedestrian defense. I would argue that you place any rookie QB in that same scenario and they would not perform nearly as well as Luck did. Luck has lived up to the hype. Unfortunately, Grigson, the 2012 Executive of the Year, peaked as a rookie GM and flamed out. He did not continue to build a winning culture and a winning foundation, and despite amazing seasons by Luck, his efforts were not enough to overcome the lack of talent on the team. Now that there is more talent on the Colts roster, we're seeing a healthier Luck that's settling nicely into this new offense. I have a feeling, when it's all said and done, Luck will be in the conversation

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3 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

3.) To me, Luck has under performed his hype so far.

This argument bothers me the most, simply because I don't know what else he needs to do to live up to the hype.

 

This is a prisoner of the moment kind of argument, IMO. Luck got drafted with Russell Wilson, a third rounder who won a SB in his second year. Luck has never been to the SB. The Colts can't beat the Pats, they got to the AFCCG pretty quickly but then fell off, etc.

 

If you look at the typical benchmarks and don't actually analyze the players and their careers, it's not hard to see where this narrative comes from. It's dead wrong, but it's not hard to follow.

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28 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

Addressing your points in bold, in numerical order:

 

1.) Luck has to win at least two SB's for me to crown him in the same league as Peyton:

You are comparing the entirety of Manning's career vs. the half way mark for Luck. Also, football is the ultimate team game. Marino was outstanding and never won a Super Bowl, yet, I and many others consider him to be among the best ever. The last Super Bowl that Manning won, he was average (if that). It was the Bronco's defense that gift wrapped a going away present for Manning.

 

2.) He'll never win 5 MVP's.

He'll never win 5 popularity contests. So what? He's already had several MVP worthy seasons as noted earlier in this thread.

 

3.) To me, Luck has under performed his hype so far.

This argument bothers me the most, simply because I don't know what else he needs to do to live up to the hype. He was the #1 draft pick with a ton of hype coming out of Stanford, joining the Colts and following Manning. There was immense pressure on him to perform. So what does he do? He leads the 2012 Colts (a team completely devoid of talent -- going 2-14 the year before) to the playoffs. Along the way, he sets records for most yards thrown by a rookie QB in NFL history. Set the single-game rookie record with 433 yards passing. Set the record for most 300-yard games as a rookie (six 300-yard games). And he did all of this with a horrible O-line and NO run game, and a pedestrian defense. I would argue that you place any rookie QB in that same scenario and they would not perform nearly as well as Luck did. Luck has lived up to the hype. Unfortunately, Grigson, the 2012 Executive of the Year, peaked as a rookie GM and flamed out. He did not continue to build a winning culture and a winning foundation, and despite amazing seasons by Luck, his efforts were not enough to overcome the lack of talent on the team. Now that there is more talent on the Colts roster, we're seeing a healthier Luck that's settling nicely into this new offense. I have a feeling, when it's all said and done, Luck will be in the conversation

I'm in complete agreement with you. 

1 - Football is a team game.   Winning SB's is great, but it is not the only way to judge a QB.   Watching the games is more important.   Marino was one of the 5 best I've ever seen play.   

 

2 - MVP's are very overrated.   

 

3 - Luck has lived up to the hype.   He's a top 5 QB in the league.  That's pretty much what you hope for when you take a QB in the top 3.  

 

1) - 

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Well, the topic is Andrew vs. Peyton. 

 

Now is about Andrew's 6th real year in the NFL and I think that was about the point in Peyton's career where he took it to a higher level.  Peyton stopped much of that LOS nonsense he used to do early in his career and toned it down once he became the QB we know.  Peyton became as much of the OC under Tom Moore as Tom Moore was. 

 

I don't think Andrew has yet to display PM's level of mental engagement in terms of attacking defenses.  Its hard to match Peyton in that way, as PM will likely be the best ever.  I think Andrew might tend to stay within the context of the offense and not ad-lib at the LOS so much, just from a personality stand point.

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I have said this before.  I believe Andrew will be remembered as a really good QB like Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair, Boomer Esiason, Phil Simms etc...  All outstanding QBs any team would take in a heartbeat. I think he will win an MVP or make a SB in his career and be borderline HOF at his ceiling and above average QB as his floor.  Peyton is one of the best of all-time, Luck would need to go one heck of a tear for his remaining career to be in the same conversation.  Quite possible but still unlikely.  Guess we will find out in 8yrs or so. 

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1 hour ago, AwesomeAustin said:

I have said this before.  I believe Andrew will be remembered as a really good QB like Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair, Boomer Esiason, Phil Simms etc...  All outstanding QBs any team would take in a heartbeat. I think he will win an MVP or make a SB in his career and be borderline HOF at his ceiling and above average QB as his floor.  Peyton is one of the best of all-time, Luck would need to go one heck of a tear for his remaining career to be in the same conversation.  Quite possible but still unlikely.  Guess we will find out in 8yrs or so. 

I think when it is all said and done, Andrew will be better than those QB's you just mentioned. Those guys were great in their own right but do not have the talent Andrew has. McNair may come the closest + McNair shared an MVP with Peyton in 2003. McNair came a yard away to taking the Rams to OT in a SB as well. His arm strength and running ability were incredible too. Phil Simms won a SB in 1986 and SB MVP but I do not see him as being more talented than Andrew Luck. That Giants team was stacked and had a defense that is one of the best ever to play.

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Funny manning didn’t win or go to  his first SB until 30.  Luck is right on track.

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lol....who is anyone kidding.  Manning is 2-3 notches above Luck.  I'd take Peyton over any version of Andrew Luck, all day any day.

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Luck needs one of those seasons where he and the Colts go 13-3, he wins MVP, a SB, and SB MVP to get fully appreciated by most people. Some people still have their doubts about him ever winning a SB.

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On 7/15/2019 at 10:33 AM, Jared Cisneros said:

So you got nothing. You try and compare Dak to Mahomes (half the tds), and RGIII (a read option QB). Those guys rookie seasons stunk compared to Mahomes. Mahomes carries the team, Dak is a game manager, and RGIII could never throw an accurate pass longer than 10 yards.

 

Mahomes crushed these guys. No reason to think he'll fall off the map besides a slight decline except for the fact we all want him to so the Colts can make a few SB's.

 

Mahomes does not carry the team. Stop kissing his butt and give some credit to that entire offense last year. It was top notch. You are biased for mahomes. He might be great and no one is denying that he did a fantastic job in his first real season. The comparison to Dak and RGIII is the hype train following and expectations that they will be a star. NOT stats. It's not hard to see this and I dont understand your hostility towards anything not Mahomes. Mohomes isn't coming here and hes not going anywhere else IF he is for real. At least not gmfor the next 8 years. Hes going to stay a chief. I'm happy for you that you finally have your starting QB in your heart. I'm sure it makes you feel warm inside knowing more than everyone else on this forum. 

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12 hours ago, MacDee1975 said:

lol....who is anyone kidding.  Manning is 2-3 notches above Luck.  I'd take Peyton over any version of Andrew Luck, all day any day.

I agree for now.

But I also know Manning had more talent around him on offensive side of the ball than Luck thus far. Both had ups and downs in terms of a supporting cast, but Manning easily had more consistent weapons. That changes this year. Luck has good WRs, good TEs, and a good OL.

 

Given we're playing much better O/passing teams this year, I expect Luck will have to throw it more too. So this could be a very big year for him. We shall see.

 

I don't think there will ever be a QB as good as Manning calling plays at the line. If you had swapped Brady and Manning, I think a Belichick/Manning combo would have burned a hole in the atmosphere. 

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I strongly believe this season that Luck will win the MVP. I just think he is primed for it he has the O-line and the receivers now to put up huge numbers.  I think  he will have the running game compliment everything. Watch out the rest of the league because Luck is  primed and ready. 

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35 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

I strongly believe this season that Luck will win the MVP. I just think he is primed for it he has the O-line and the receivers now to put up huge numbers.  I think  he will have the running game compliment everything. Watch out the rest of the league because Luck is  primed and ready. 

There's a lot that would suggest he could have a crazy big year stat wise.

 

Great OL. Check

Upgraded WR unit. Check

Good TEs. Check

RBs that can catch. Check

Will go against a lot of great Os that will likely require him to throw more. Check

Second year in the offense. Check

Confidence high after putting injury concerns to bed. Check.

 

And...

We play 9 games vs teams that were in the bottom half of the league (pass defense), and 6 of those 9 are in the bottom 7. Check, check, and triple check.

 

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9 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

There's a lot that would suggest he could have a crazy big year stat wise.

 

Great OL. Check

Upgraded WR unit. Check

Good TEs. Check

RBs that can catch. Check

Will go against a lot of great Os that will likely require him to throw more. Check

Second year in the offense. Check

Confidence high after putting injury concerns to bed. Check.

 

And...

We play 9 games vs teams that were in the bottom half of the league (pass defense), and 6 of those 9 are in the bottom 7. Check, check, and triple check.

 

Yes very well put I was thinking the same thing you just spelled it out better...lol That's also why if everything falls into place we could be in the Super Bowl but like I said everything has to go well with injuries and a little Luck no pun intended.  

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