Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Lucky Colts Fan

Best member of last nine draft classes - Wilson over Luck?!?!?

Recommended Posts

19 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Ok to be fair, Wilson is obviously a better runner than Manning or Luck. Manning ran like a duck lol. Wilson's efficiency is better than Luck's but do you not think playing with a HOFame RB for 4 years would help any QB's efficiency? Look at Luck last year over the last 10 games. He was very efficient and it was because we had a run game for the 1st time in his career. Having said that, Mack isn't near the RB Lynch was but Mack is good.

 

To your point about Mays and Aaron. You have no argument from me there. From the film I have seen on both, Mays was the better player IMO.

 

 I would say a running game IS a big help to a QB.
 But i don't think the difference in efficiency is the running game, IMO Wilson is just a better quick thinker, has better arm talent, by that i mean can throw from different angles to create throwing lanes. 
 Andrew has always thrown a lot of bad balls. 
 Of course to be fair, i think Andrew's game would have been much better with a Andy Reid, Reich type than what he has had to deal with. Fo sure!
  In this offense, with a full set of weapons and hard work, I DO think Andrew will do better than ever. As all these guys learn the system and can get to where they are supposed to be, it is going to be AWESOME. Let's hope by the last quarter of the season we are reasonably healthy and running on all cylinders and Big Time Playoff contenders. That is what i really do EXPECT anyway.
 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 I would say a running game IS a big help to a QB.
 But i don't think the difference in efficiency is the running game, IMO Wilson is just a better quick thinker, has better arm talent, by that i mean can throw from different angles to create throwing lanes. 
 Andrew has always thrown a lot of bad balls. 
 Of course to be fair, i think Andrew's game would have been much better with a Andy Reid, Reich type than what he has had to deal with. Fo sure!
  In this offense, with a full set of weapons and hard work, I DO think Andrew will do better than ever. As all these guys learn the system and can get to where they are supposed to be, it is going to be AWESOME. Let's hope by the last quarter of the season we are reasonably healthy and running on all cylinders and Big Time Playoff contenders. That is what i really do EXPECT anyway.
 

Yeah I will be disappointed if the Colts do not win 10 or 11 games and Andrew struggles. It is time for him to win that ring either this year or next year. He is in his prime now so no excuses. I just hope he stays healthy which I predict he will but you never no? We finally do have a decent run game and very good O.Line. We even have a defense now that can no longer be laughed at :thmup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Here''s a guy that compared them just over 2018, and he went with Russell Wilson as well-

 

 

 

Things happen in Playoff runs vs. the best teams. I don't think P. Manning lit up the stat sheets in the Colts 2006 SB run either.

 

 

I believe he was accountable for between 80-85% of their offense (depending upon if sacks were factored in or not).  P. Carroll deliberately went more to the power run game last year for that reason.

 

I Love Luck, glad he's our QB..  But I doubt you find many Colts fans selecting Wilson, and won't find many Seahawk fans choosing Luck.

 

 I appreciate this guys ability to break down their games. Nice job.
I have always been a Wilson fan and had problems with Andrew's game.
They are in their prime now, have good coaches, and their best should be yet to come. And i really do Love their character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/26/2019 at 12:56 PM, Jared Cisneros said:

I honestly see Wilson and Luck as near equals. Wilson is more of a game manager and Luck is more of a franchise QB, but neither can carry a team by themselves. Wilson passes less, but he's more accurate, makes less mistakes, and scrambles better. Luck is a better pocket passer, but makes bad decisions and can't beat elite teams. Both of them need a team around them to win a SB. Wilson did, and Luck can't do it by himself. Luck and Wilson are equal IMO. Wilson was better value and has had more success up to this point.

 

I don't think Wilson is more accurate. Luck is pretty accurate IMO. There are few QBs I would rate higher than Luck when it comes to accuracy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Here''s a guy that compared them just over 2018, and he went with Russell Wilson as well-

 

 

 

Things happen in Playoff runs vs. the best teams. I don't think P. Manning lit up the stat sheets in the Colts 2006 SB run either.

 

 

I believe he was accountable for between 80-85% of their offense (depending upon if sacks were factored in or not).  P. Carroll deliberately went more to the power run game last year for that reason.

 

I Love Luck, glad he's our QB..  But I doubt you find many Colts fans selecting Wilson, and won't find many Seahawk fans choosing Luck.

 

That's a great video. I was thinking specifically about the stress that run-run-pass puts on a QB. We have seen this with Luck in the past. I think it flies a bit in the face "being asked to do less." And SEA's scheme definitely involve a good number of difficult passes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Wilson has come along way. I seen him as a game manager type like an Alex Smith until 2017 and last year. Let me say he is much better than Alex Smith but Alex was good when healthy. Wilson has done a lot to help carry the Seahawks the last 2 years. I just dislike it when some say he is better than Luck because he has a ring when Lynch accounted for a lot of that offense in 2013. 

 

There's no comparison between Smith and Wilson, IMO.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

There's no comparison between Smith and Wilson, IMO.

There isn't now that is why I put what I put in bold. Wilson is obviously much better now. If you look at the way Wilson played early in his career, Smith played similar IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Anyone that watched the Seahawks from 2012-2015 knows Lynch and the defense were the main reasons they won a lot of games but they want to ignore that for some reason. They were definitely the main reason's why they won the SB they won

 

That is what great teams do. GM/Coach combo  gets gets both personnel on player and coaching sides to develop 'complimentary football' plans.  Not can we get  that one guy that overcomes all of our weakness' to win it for us.  Brady has gotten better over the years, but complimentary football won every game. But scales have moved from him doing well enough to have the team get the job done, to he can finish the job, if needed.

 

Quote

Luck has never had near the defense that the Seahawks had in Wilson's first 4 years and he has never had a RB like Lynch. These are just facts, no hate about it.

 

Then Luck is doomed to be the next Dan Marino?

 

Most QB's taken in round 1 go to worse teams.  Wilson only had to beat out a well paid FA vet

 

https://wegotthiscovered.com/sports/seattle-seahawks-set-matt-flynn-russell-wilson/

 

and he did.  Coaches like Pete Carroll, and Bill Belichick go with the QB they see that can win (Brady kept his job even when Bledsoe was healthy again, Wilson beat out a well paid vet Flynn).

 

And a Seahawk's coaches play call let Butler (also coached to defend that exact pass play called) win the SB.  Complimentary and situational football. Hard to be better than Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick at those.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/26/2019 at 10:53 AM, Lucky Colts Fan said:

russell-wilson-jj-watt-among-best-of-past-nine-draft-classes

 

Adam Schein of NFL.com gives his best picks of the past nine drafts.

 

Quenton Nelson is the best pick of the 2018 draft.

 

 

The real head-scratcher is that he chose Russell Wilson over Andrew Luck for the best pick of the 2012 class.

 

 

Just because that Seahawks D carried Wilson to a few SBs, he gets the nod for a "better career" so far, so he's a better draft pick?  C'mon Adam...  :nono:

I agree with him at this point.   Wilson has had a very good career with Superbowl wins.   That is a better career than Luck at this time. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Myles said:

I agree with him at this point.   Wilson has had a very good career with Superbowl wins.   That is a better career than Luck at this time. 

Glad you agree so you definitely agree that Kris Bryant has had a better career than Mike Trout because he has a ring and Trout doesn't. Bryant also has won an MVP so he is a proven legit great player. Wilson has never won a MVP and he will probably never win one. Wilson has 1 ring so he is better than Dan Marino lmao according to some.

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Colts/Packers game was probably the best game that I've ever seen in person. How could anyone say that it was rigged? Conspiracy theorists are hilarious, especially when it comes to football. Ask Reggie Wayne how he racked up 212 yards and an extended TD to help win the game. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

There isn't now that is why I put what I put in bold. Wilson is obviously much better now. If you look at the way Wilson played early in his career, Smith played similar IMO.

 

Wilson has always been a playmaker and a downfield thrower, and has always tended to hold on to the ball and leave the pocket to extend a play. I never saw Wilson as a game manager. He was a QB that was protected by the scheme early on, but he was also weaponized by that scheme, and grew into it. And eventually, he became the scheme. He is kind of like Rodgers in that he'll take a bad sack rather than throw a risky pass, but most coaches prefer that.

 

Smith is a conservative dink and dunker who is so risk averse that he won't challenge a secondary, and is more likely to get rid of the ball too early than wait for a play to develop. Smith is gun shy because he knew that if he turned the ball over, he didn't have the playmaking ability to make up for it, and he'd get benched. He turned over a new leaf in 2017 and was one of the most effective deep passers in the league, but before he got hurt last year he looked like the same ultra conservative QB he always was.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Glad you agree so you definitely agree that Kris Bryant has had a better career than Mike Trout because he has a ring and Trout doesn't. Bryant also has won an MVP so he is a proven legit great player. Wilson has never won a MVP and he will probably never win one. Wilson has 1 ring so he is better than Dan Marino lmao according to some.

Of course this post was me being sarcastic because I know you hate the Cubs haha .

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Wilson has always been a playmaker and a downfield thrower, and has always tended to hold on to the ball and leave the pocket to extend a play. I never saw Wilson as a game manager. He was a QB that was protected by the scheme early on, but he was also weaponized by that scheme, and grew into it. And eventually, he became the scheme. He is kind of like Rodgers in that he'll take a bad sack rather than throw a risky pass, but most coaches prefer that.

 

Smith is a conservative dink and dunker who is so risk averse that he won't challenge a secondary, and is more likely to get rid of the ball too early than wait for a play to develop. Smith is gun shy because he knew that if he turned the ball over, he didn't have the playmaking ability to make up for it, and he'd get benched. He turned over a new leaf in 2017 and was one of the most effective deep passers in the league, but before he got hurt last year he looked like the same ultra conservative QB he always was.

Good points but Smith did start throwing down the field more before he got injured. He also used to take off and run at times and keep plays alive like Wilson has done. If both were healthy I would take Wilson though as I have never considered Smith a top 10 QB so I am not debating that. Having said that I would take Luck over Wilson if I had to choose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone who attended the Colts - Seahawk game and watched Luck and Wilson would clearly see that Luck is the better QB. It was obvious. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just for fun a little off topic but we are talking about Luck and Wilson. So based on my eye test just going by last season heading into this one, I would have Luck 4th and Wilson 5th. I am going by just last season and who I would want starting this season. I would have:

1. Tom Brady - Have to put him 1st until someone beats him and his team. He went head to head vs Mahomes and his team at arrowhead (AFC Title Game) and the Pats won. Brady is just more clutch than Mahomes.

 

2. Pat Mahomes - 50 TD's and 5000 yards. League MVP.

 

3. Drew Brees - He was League MVP until about week 12, then Mahomes ran away with it in the last 4 or 5 weeks. Brees and the Saints got robbed and should've been in the SB.

 

4. Andrew Luck - 39 TD's and 4593 yards. CPOY. Colts made the playoffs at 10-6 and won a playoff game.

 

5. Russell Wilson - 35 TD's and very efficient. Seahawks made the playoffs at 10-6.

 

IMO Aaron Rodgers and Big Ben are on a prove it year because both missed the playoffs and are getting older. Rodgers only threw for 25 TD's last season, that is bad for him. Big Ben no longer has Brown.

 

Luck and Wilson IMO are 4 and 5, close.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Thread of the Week

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Funny conspiracy theory. What if Ballard got credentialed for Utah state to throw people off. The reason he no showed was he was actually at Utah looking at this guy. Lol   draft season is full of smoke and conspiracy. Haha
    • Think of how many times he got pounded to the turf.   I would bet the house he has issues with concussion symptons.  And back, and ...  Let the guy go.
    • I wouldn't say I'm particularly good with evaluating players coming out of college. And especially with projecting them forward(I have some hits, but I also have some huge misses). I'm doing this for fun and for engagement with other Colts fans(I just like talking about football and the team and the future of the team, etc.), I don't have any illusions about my abilities as an evaluator - think of it like this - even the best FOs in the league miss on about half their picks... and most people here(me included) don't have anywhere close to their knowledge, their time to watch players, their resources - financial or scouting resources, their intel on players(this is the biggest difference IMO between amateurs like us that watch on the internet and what the teams can do - they have soooooo much more information about those players and what makes them tick).    Yeah, a lot of it is luck. This is why I love that Ballard realizes that and has said that this is the reason he prefers to accumulate picks, which he has done. This is one of the biggest paradoxes in the league. Imagine you are prospective GM for a team and you go to an interview with the owner  but instead of telling him "I'm the best man for the job, because I can evaluate better than everyone else", the real answer is more along the lines of "look, most teams/GMs in the league have about the same success with drafts over the long haul, so hire me to turn the wheel of fortune for the team". In essence, the answer is - you have to be humble about just how not good the success rate of draft picks is(even for the best GMs) and you have to devise a strategy in another way - namely - instead of just trying to have high success rate per pick... just get more picks and try to hold the success rate similar. This is how you shift the odds in your favor. You are more likely to get 5 starters out of 10 picks than out of 7 picks.    The reality is - even if we draft a QB in round 1, chances are about 50-50 that he's going to bust... but then again... those are roughly the chances for every other position too. Maybe just a little bit more or less of some other positions, but QB is so important that it doesn't matter. The reward of getting a great QB is way too big. You just have to keep trying until you get the guy.       Manning and Luck are kind of exceptions though. I haven't really seen people talk about many other QBs in that way. For example, Trevor Lawrence is probably the one I've heard people talk in most similar terms as a can't miss QB, but even he had his questionable play to begin this season. We will see what happens with him next year and if he will enter the draft in a similar standing as Luck. Luck is the most can't miss QB I've seen and I haven't seen anyone close since.(this is as a prospect coming out of college) Even the Mariotas or Winstons or Mayfields and Darnolds of the world had a lot of more doubt.    BTW, there is something that IMO gets underrated a bit - the environment those QBs enter into. Very few are can't miss that can transcend a chaotic team atmosphere, bad coaching or OLine, lack of weapons, etc. This is why what Luck did was so amazing and why he was a can't miss prospect - just look back at what he had to deal with... horrible coaching, horrible OLines, horrible defenses... we take 100 yard rushers for granted... Luck didn't have a 100 yard rusher to help him for what was it? 5 years straight or something? Luck was special. Too bad we didn't have the right management and coaching to keep him healthy and give him a team capable of competing.    So yeah, I think whoever we draft will have much better situation to succeed than a lot of other young QBs enter. We have good coaching staff, we have good OLine... we need better weapons, but that can be fixed through allocating resources there. 
    • Nelson and Leonard can’t be extended until after their third year. They need one one season to be elgible. Our oline is going to have some major dollars wrapped up in it one Nelson signs after next year.
  • Members

×
×
  • Create New...