Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Scott Pennock

Antonio Garcia - Failed PED

Recommended Posts

24 minutes ago, Boiler_Colt said:

I wasn't just referring to steroids. Everything is instant today. Streaming, one day shipping, smart phones etc. People don't wait for anything anymore. Technically in my early 30's I still consider myself part of "today's generation". I will say though having been around gyms and sports organizations for most of my life I am noticing more steroid use in younger kids than ever before.

 

Technology makes things more efficient. We used to send letters, then we started using the phone and the Internet. People used to sail, now we fly. I thought your previous post had a negative implication, but if it was just a comment on changing times, my bad.

 

Specific to steroids and PEDs, though, I think it's been common in gyms for a long time. It's possible there was a lull in the 2000s, and people work out differently now than they did in the 80s, when it was all about getting bigger. But I worked in gyms in the 2000s, and I've been around sports since high school, and I know that people in those worlds have never stopped using PEDs that are or would be banned by pro sports leagues. 

 

I also know that not all performance enhancers are the same, which is why I dislike the blanket stigma.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Technology makes things more efficient. We used to send letters, then we started using the phone and the Internet. People used to sail, now we fly. I thought your previous post had a negative implication, but if it was just a comment on changing times, my bad.

 

Specific to steroids and PEDs, though, I think it's been common in gyms for a long time. It's possible there was a lull in the 2000s, and people work out differently now than they did in the 80s, when it was all about getting bigger. But I worked in gyms in the 2000s, and I've been around sports since high school, and I know that people in those worlds have never stopped using PEDs that are or would be banned by pro sports leagues. 

 

I also know that not all performance enhancers are the same, which is why I dislike the blanket stigma.

I guess I got you beat since I have been around sports since birth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cheating in sports is as old as sports themselves.  It's not some symptom that is confined to "this generation".  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I guess I got you beat since I have been around sports since birth

 

I meant organized sports, but you go back before I was born, so yeah, you got me for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I meant organized sports, but you go back before I was born, so yeah, you got me for sure.

My Dad was a coach so I grew up in locker rooms

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 No doubt a good hard workout to keep up his muscle tone would have been fine while taking blood thinners to treat his blood clots in his lungs.  lmao

Actually I have experience with that particular issue.  It doesn't limit working out at all.  (Being on blood thinners to treat a clotting issue).  It's possible he had other complications, but as I said earlier there wasn't an in depth explanation about what his problem was.  If he was not allowed to exercise and needed to address that issue, he should have openly discussed it with the league, so apologists aside, cheating is cheating.   You can stop rubbing your blue head.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/10/2019 at 6:33 PM, Coltsfan66 said:

This is an excellent point!  I am not condoning any illegal use of PED's mind you, just kind of trying to figure out how legal supplements factor in?  What is next caffeine?  Again, not condoning illegal use, but there seems to be a very grey area?

 

On 6/10/2019 at 6:39 PM, Smonroe said:

 

There’s a BIG difference between a substance being illegal and one being banned by the NFL.

 

Many legal supplements are banned by the league.  

 

On 6/10/2019 at 6:43 PM, PrincetonTiger said:

There is a big difference between NFL Regulation and Federal/State Law

So true

Soooo the overall consensus is that if its sold in stores, therefore taxable then its not illegal. Even though the league banned this drug/substance. Go and tell that to Josh Gordon. Over half the states in the US has marijuana legal. Including Washington D.C.

 

If Josh Gordon was negatively impacted by illegal substances, then Garcia can cry me a river. He knew the LAW! Follow IT! 

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

If Josh Gordon was negatively impacted by illegal substances, then Garcia can cry me a river. He knew the LAW! Follow IT!

 

What substance did Garcia take and in what state is it illegal?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

What substance did Garcia take and in what state is it illegal?

You might want to contact the NFL anti doping department who rendered the random test. They will give you the facts which lead to the suspension for Mr. Garcia.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Rackeen305 said:

You might want to contact the NFL anti doping department who rendered the random test. They will give you the facts which lead to the suspension for Mr. Garcia.

The NFL is a private company and can make any rule they want

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

The NFL is a private company and can make any rule they want

Just as they did for Mr. Kaepernick. You are correct in your assessment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

You might want to contact the NFL anti doping department who rendered the random test. They will give you the facts which lead to the suspension for Mr. Garcia.

 

In other words, you have no idea.  :funny:

 

You might also want to get the "facts" before calling a substance "illegal" and throwing Garcia under the bus for using it.

 

I don't know that Garcia broke any laws.  He might not have known that the substance he took violated NFL policy, and that's still his responsibility, but it might have just been an honest mistake.  I don't think Josh Gordon should have gotten in trouble for smoking weed, but he did knowingly violate NFL policy.  :dunno:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

In other words, you have no idea.  :funny:

 

You might also want to get the "facts" before calling a substance "illegal" and throwing Garcia under the bus for using it.

 

I don't know that Garcia broke any laws.  He might not have known that the substance he took violated NFL policy, and that's still his responsibility, but it might have just been an honest mistake.  I don't think Josh Gordon should have gotten in trouble for smoking weed, but he did knowingly violate NFL policy.  :dunno:

So I guess Mr. Garcia never knew that PEDs were illegal? But Mr. Gordon knew about herb (bi-product) which are sold as stock were illegal? no need for emojis. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Rackeen305 said:

So I guess Mr. Garcia never knew that PEDs were illegal? But Mr. Gordon knew about herb (bi-product) which are sold as stock were illegal? no need for emojis. 

 

Unless you're messing with us, you really don't have a good understanding of what's "legal" and what's banned by the NFL. 

 

Here's brief example.  When Ben Watson retired he was prescribed a substance to help him heal up.  A legal substance.  A substance that doctors often prescribe to men.  When he came out of retirement he was tested, and since that substance is banned by the NFL, he was suspended.

 

Hope this helps you understand that not all banned substances are illegal.  I'm not saying that Garcia didn't know what he was doing.  I still don't know what substance he was banned for.  Just trying to clarify the difference.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

So I guess Mr. Garcia never knew that PEDs were illegal? But Mr. Gordon knew about herb (bi-product) which are sold as stock were illegal? no need for emojis. 

 

Yes, because not all "PEDs" are "a violation of NFL policy" whereas all marijuana products are.  All players know that all marijuana products violate NFL policy, but I doubt many of the players can recite verbatim the extensive list of PEDs, including masking agents for those PEDs, that would be a violation because it's a much broader range of products.

 

You keep saying "illegal" when you mean "a violation of NFL policy".  As far as I know, PEDs are completely legal in every state, whereas they are a violation of NFL policy no matter what state you live in and what team you play for.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Yes, because not all "PEDs" are "a violation of NFL policy" whereas all marijuana products are.  All players know that all marijuana products violate NFL policy, but I doubt many of the players can recite verbatim the extensive list of PEDs, including masking agents for those PEDs, that would be a violation because it's a much broader range of products.

 

You keep saying "illegal" when you mean "a violation of NFL policy".  As far as I know, PEDs are completely legal in every state, whereas they are a violation of NFL policy no matter what state you live in and what team you play for.

Every Sport governing body has a list of banned items and anytime something changes every team team and/or coach are notified 

   Example:

      The IHSAA holds several mandatory rules meetings for coaches before each sport

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rackeen305 said:

 

 

Soooo the overall consensus is that if its sold in stores, therefore taxable then its not illegal. Even though the league banned this drug/substance.

 

That's not "the overall consensus", it's simply correct.  There are many drugs that are perfectly legal to take but that are still banned by the NFL.  The league banning a substance does not make it illegal.  It makes it banned.  That's why "banned" and "illegal" are 2 different words.  

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rackeen305 said:

You might want to contact the NFL anti doping department who rendered the random test. They will give you the facts which lead to the suspension for Mr. Garcia.

 

YOU are the one stating that what Garcia did was illegal, even though you have no idea what he actually took.  Also, I highly doubt the NFL would give out those facts to just anyone.  

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, J@son said:

 

That's not "the overall consensus", it's simply correct.  There are many drugs that are perfectly legal to take but that are still banned by the NFL.  The league banning a substance does not make it illegal.  It makes it banned.  That's why "banned" and "illegal" are 2 different words.  

 

2 hours ago, J@son said:

 

YOU are the one stating that what Garcia did was illegal, even though you have no idea what he actually took.  Also, I highly doubt the NFL would give out those facts to just anyone.  

Are you upset at me? or the NFL? or Mr. Garcia for being busted for the illegal drug? Im just stating what the league has reported. If you look at the OP. sorry for the sad news anyways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

 

Are you upset at me? or the NFL? or Mr. Garcia for being busted for the illegal drug? Im just stating what the league has reported. If you look at the OP. sorry for the sad news anyways.

The problem in this discussion is the use of the word illegal.   A drug may be banned by the NFL, but that doesn’t make it illegal in the real world. 

 

There are plenty of drugs banned by the NFL that you can take legally, both over the counter or by prescription. Like steroids.   Or the drug Mathis said he used to help his wife get pregnant,  but it’s illegal in the league.

 

If you could get on the same page,  it might advance the discussion.  

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

So I guess Mr. Garcia never knew that PEDs were illegal? But Mr. Gordon knew about herb (bi-product) which are sold as stock were illegal? no need for emojis. 

Illegal :  contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

 

Are you upset at me? or the NFL? or Mr. Garcia for being busted for the illegal drug? Im just stating what the league has reported. If you look at the OP. sorry for the sad news anyways.

 

No I'm not upset. Just trying to get you to understand that what Mr. Garcia was busted for may or may not have been ILLEGAL.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

 

 

Soooo the overall consensus is that if its sold in stores, therefore taxable then its not illegal. Even though the league banned this drug/substance. Go and tell that to Josh Gordon. Over half the states in the US has marijuana legal. Including Washington D.C.

 

If Josh Gordon was negatively impacted by illegal substances, then Garcia can cry me a river. He knew the LAW! Follow IT! 

 

I noticed you quoted me.  I asked a simple question.  Tread lightly, as your retort is over the top and not appreciated by myself.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

@Rackeen305 are you purposefully using semantics to derail this thread?

 

If so, you're doing a great job!  haha

 

tenor.gif?itemid=5574690

It seems that way, I was attacked for no reason????  I guess that is his "thing"????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, horseshoecrabs said:

So I guess hamburgers with poppy seed buns are probably on the NFL's banned list too. lol.  

You win the internet for the day!  Lock it up boys!:rock:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, horseshoecrabs said:

So I guess hamburgers with poppy seed buns are probably on the NFL's banned list too. lol.  

 

2 hours ago, Coltsfan66 said:

You win the internet for the day!  Lock it up boys!:rock:

 

49 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

Poppy seeds *can* yield false positives on opiate drug tests. https://education.questdiagnostics.com/insights/88

 

Depends on quantity eaten and other factors.

 

Gotta stay off the poppy-seed muffins!

 

21cpgy.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/10/2019 at 4:15 PM, Scott Pennock said:

I do wonder if he can challenge this as part of his rehab from losing 70+ lbs could have been a legal prescription of some type of roids?

 

On 6/10/2019 at 4:25 PM, MTC said:


That was one of my first thoughts. 

 

Couldn't read all the posts before I had to jump in.  Maybe, minute chance, he gets a very slight reduction if a physician testifies it was needed for patients treatment / health. We won't know the actual substance either. However,probably not as this is given to each player/agent from the NFLPA:

 

"If you have been or are seeking to be treated by a physician with a banned substance for any condition (including ADD/ADHD, male pattern baldness, hypertension, hypogonadism, or hypopituitarism), you must have your physician file a TUE application with the Independent Administrator. If you test positive for a prohibited substance without having been granted a TUE, it will constitute a positive test and will be referred for administrative action."

 

Note: a TUE is a Therapeutic Use Exemption

 

On 6/10/2019 at 5:26 PM, jvan1973 said:

Where is it against the law to take things sold at GNC

 

It's not against the law.  But anything ingested from anywhere (Including GNC) that contains any of these substances (whether listed on the label or not) on this site-

 

https://www.huntonretailindustryblog.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/16/2016/04/2014-NFL-List-of-Prohibited-Substances.pdf

 

or substances that eventually break down into one (or more) of those listed once in the body are subject to punishment for failing the Performance Enhancing Substances test.

 

On 6/10/2019 at 6:33 PM, Coltsfan66 said:

This is an excellent point!  I am not condoning any illegal use of PED's mind you, just kind of trying to figure out how legal supplements factor in?  What is next caffeine?  Again, not condoning illegal use, but there seems to be a very grey area?

 

They're fine, IF they do not have any of these in it as part of the ingredients-

 

https://www.huntonretailindustryblog.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/16/2016/04/2014-NFL-List-of-Prohibited-Substances.pdf

 

Rule of thumb, when in doubt, leave it out (of the pie hole). Any player can call team Dr. for advice at any time.

 

On 6/10/2019 at 6:43 PM, Douzer said:

If it's something his doctor recommended for his long term health, then a football leagues rules become an inferior consideration.

 

Yes, but they also have to play nice and pre-warn the NFL and apply for the exemption-

 

"Initial TUE application
As a reminder, all TUE applications must be sent to the Independent Administrator prior to the initiation of treatment."

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Smonroe said:

Here's brief example.  When Ben Watson retired he was prescribed a substance to help him heal up.  A legal substance.  A substance that doctors often prescribe to men.  When he came out of retirement he was tested, and since that substance is banned by the NFL, he was suspended.

 

Ben Watson is an interesting case.  He received testosterone treatments in the offseason because he was 'going to retire'. Since he never really filed official retirement papers, he could still be tested in the off season for PES, and was. Since he was retiring, it wasn't a major concern to him.  Later he changed his mind, but learned his treatments he had failed that Performance Enhancing Substances test.  He and his treating physician should have applied for a TUE, even if Watson fully intended to file his retirement papers at a later date.  Watson probably won't appeal.  He knows the rules, timeline, and the repercussions of 'coming back' with a banned substance possibly still in his system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

They will give you the facts which lead to the suspension for Mr. Garcia.

 

No, they won't.  The league communications department will just confirm his test was positive for a banned performance enhancing substance. That's all.  Nothing else. Anybody 'leaking' the details of the failed test without the players direct permission is subject to heavy fines and other punitive measures from the NFL, as well as a possible (depending the position/relationship of the leaker) HIPAA violation.

 

It's why you almost never hear what the 'stuff' was, unless the agent/player decide to leak out 'their version'

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

No, they won't.  The league communications department will just confirm his test was positive for a banned performance enhancing substance. That's all.  Nothing else. Anybody 'leaking' the details of the failed test without the players direct permission is subject to heavy fines and other punitive measures from the NFL, as well as a possible (depending the position/relationship of the leaker) HIPAA violation.

 

It's why you almost never hear what the 'stuff' was, unless the agent/player decide to leak out 'their version'

Giving you the facts doesn't mean they will give you details. No emoji needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Coltsfan66 said:

It seems that way, I was attacked for no reason????  I guess that is his "thing"????

Next question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

Next question.

If you give a fool enough rope, he will hang himself.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

Giving you the facts doesn't mean they will give you details. No emoji needed.

 

giphy.gif

 

I don't think there is an emoji that can fully encompass my reaction to all of your posts in this thread...

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Thread of the Week

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • i dont think Blackmon even tried to get reinstated, while Gordon did every time   i dont know anything about Smith 
    • I can just see those sweeps being handed to P Campbell very soon. Also using him as a decoy on those should create some nice runs and play action.
    • Dave DeGuilmo (sp?) was fired by the Pats after two seasons that the Pats viewed as unacceptable from their OL.    If you look at his resume',  he doesn't seem to stay anyplace too long for whatever reason.   The coaches we have have good to great resume's...    OL play is always the last unit to come around.    This is not a surprise.    Give it a little time.     Certainly more time than two pre-season games....  
    • Offensive line play is almost ALWAYS the slowest unit to come around.    It's almost always that way.      Compound that with having a new OL coaching staff teaching new techniques and this explains the slow start out of the gate.   This will take some time.   The idea that Mudd should not have been brought back because the game has passed him by............       is comical.     And not in a good way.      
    • 40 time was 5.04. that's pretty slow in terms of 40. doesn't mean he can't run a crisp route and use his body to get open. "fast" is not a word to describe hale though. he catches and blocks well.   besides his vert 33.5, the rest of his measurables at the pro day were pretty bad.  
  • Members

    • drakau

      drakau 4

      Rookie
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • 2006Coltsbestever

      2006Coltsbestever 21,871

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • GoColts00

      GoColts00 356

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • aaron11

      aaron11 2,064

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Melancholie

      Melancholie 3

      Rookie
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • DoubleE Colt

      DoubleE Colt 41

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • akcolt

      akcolt 2,567

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • GEColt

      GEColt 0

      Rookie
      Joined:
      Last active:
×
×
  • Create New...