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Scott Pennock

Antonio Garcia - Failed PED

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24 minutes ago, Boiler_Colt said:

I wasn't just referring to steroids. Everything is instant today. Streaming, one day shipping, smart phones etc. People don't wait for anything anymore. Technically in my early 30's I still consider myself part of "today's generation". I will say though having been around gyms and sports organizations for most of my life I am noticing more steroid use in younger kids than ever before.

 

Technology makes things more efficient. We used to send letters, then we started using the phone and the Internet. People used to sail, now we fly. I thought your previous post had a negative implication, but if it was just a comment on changing times, my bad.

 

Specific to steroids and PEDs, though, I think it's been common in gyms for a long time. It's possible there was a lull in the 2000s, and people work out differently now than they did in the 80s, when it was all about getting bigger. But I worked in gyms in the 2000s, and I've been around sports since high school, and I know that people in those worlds have never stopped using PEDs that are or would be banned by pro sports leagues. 

 

I also know that not all performance enhancers are the same, which is why I dislike the blanket stigma.

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3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Technology makes things more efficient. We used to send letters, then we started using the phone and the Internet. People used to sail, now we fly. I thought your previous post had a negative implication, but if it was just a comment on changing times, my bad.

 

Specific to steroids and PEDs, though, I think it's been common in gyms for a long time. It's possible there was a lull in the 2000s, and people work out differently now than they did in the 80s, when it was all about getting bigger. But I worked in gyms in the 2000s, and I've been around sports since high school, and I know that people in those worlds have never stopped using PEDs that are or would be banned by pro sports leagues. 

 

I also know that not all performance enhancers are the same, which is why I dislike the blanket stigma.

I guess I got you beat since I have been around sports since birth

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Cheating in sports is as old as sports themselves.  It's not some symptom that is confined to "this generation".  

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1 hour ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I guess I got you beat since I have been around sports since birth

 

I meant organized sports, but you go back before I was born, so yeah, you got me for sure.

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26 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I meant organized sports, but you go back before I was born, so yeah, you got me for sure.

My Dad was a coach so I grew up in locker rooms

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6 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 No doubt a good hard workout to keep up his muscle tone would have been fine while taking blood thinners to treat his blood clots in his lungs.  lmao

Actually I have experience with that particular issue.  It doesn't limit working out at all.  (Being on blood thinners to treat a clotting issue).  It's possible he had other complications, but as I said earlier there wasn't an in depth explanation about what his problem was.  If he was not allowed to exercise and needed to address that issue, he should have openly discussed it with the league, so apologists aside, cheating is cheating.   You can stop rubbing your blue head.  

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On 6/10/2019 at 6:33 PM, Coltsfan66 said:

This is an excellent point!  I am not condoning any illegal use of PED's mind you, just kind of trying to figure out how legal supplements factor in?  What is next caffeine?  Again, not condoning illegal use, but there seems to be a very grey area?

 

On 6/10/2019 at 6:39 PM, Smonroe said:

 

There’s a BIG difference between a substance being illegal and one being banned by the NFL.

 

Many legal supplements are banned by the league.  

 

On 6/10/2019 at 6:43 PM, PrincetonTiger said:

There is a big difference between NFL Regulation and Federal/State Law

So true

Soooo the overall consensus is that if its sold in stores, therefore taxable then its not illegal. Even though the league banned this drug/substance. Go and tell that to Josh Gordon. Over half the states in the US has marijuana legal. Including Washington D.C.

 

If Josh Gordon was negatively impacted by illegal substances, then Garcia can cry me a river. He knew the LAW! Follow IT! 

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8 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

If Josh Gordon was negatively impacted by illegal substances, then Garcia can cry me a river. He knew the LAW! Follow IT!

 

What substance did Garcia take and in what state is it illegal?

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4 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

What substance did Garcia take and in what state is it illegal?

You might want to contact the NFL anti doping department who rendered the random test. They will give you the facts which lead to the suspension for Mr. Garcia.

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1 minute ago, Rackeen305 said:

You might want to contact the NFL anti doping department who rendered the random test. They will give you the facts which lead to the suspension for Mr. Garcia.

The NFL is a private company and can make any rule they want

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Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

The NFL is a private company and can make any rule they want

Just as they did for Mr. Kaepernick. You are correct in your assessment.

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8 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

You might want to contact the NFL anti doping department who rendered the random test. They will give you the facts which lead to the suspension for Mr. Garcia.

 

In other words, you have no idea.  :funny:

 

You might also want to get the "facts" before calling a substance "illegal" and throwing Garcia under the bus for using it.

 

I don't know that Garcia broke any laws.  He might not have known that the substance he took violated NFL policy, and that's still his responsibility, but it might have just been an honest mistake.  I don't think Josh Gordon should have gotten in trouble for smoking weed, but he did knowingly violate NFL policy.  :dunno:

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19 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

In other words, you have no idea.  :funny:

 

You might also want to get the "facts" before calling a substance "illegal" and throwing Garcia under the bus for using it.

 

I don't know that Garcia broke any laws.  He might not have known that the substance he took violated NFL policy, and that's still his responsibility, but it might have just been an honest mistake.  I don't think Josh Gordon should have gotten in trouble for smoking weed, but he did knowingly violate NFL policy.  :dunno:

So I guess Mr. Garcia never knew that PEDs were illegal? But Mr. Gordon knew about herb (bi-product) which are sold as stock were illegal? no need for emojis. 

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1 minute ago, Rackeen305 said:

So I guess Mr. Garcia never knew that PEDs were illegal? But Mr. Gordon knew about herb (bi-product) which are sold as stock were illegal? no need for emojis. 

 

Unless you're messing with us, you really don't have a good understanding of what's "legal" and what's banned by the NFL. 

 

Here's brief example.  When Ben Watson retired he was prescribed a substance to help him heal up.  A legal substance.  A substance that doctors often prescribe to men.  When he came out of retirement he was tested, and since that substance is banned by the NFL, he was suspended.

 

Hope this helps you understand that not all banned substances are illegal.  I'm not saying that Garcia didn't know what he was doing.  I still don't know what substance he was banned for.  Just trying to clarify the difference.

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8 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

So I guess Mr. Garcia never knew that PEDs were illegal? But Mr. Gordon knew about herb (bi-product) which are sold as stock were illegal? no need for emojis. 

 

Yes, because not all "PEDs" are "a violation of NFL policy" whereas all marijuana products are.  All players know that all marijuana products violate NFL policy, but I doubt many of the players can recite verbatim the extensive list of PEDs, including masking agents for those PEDs, that would be a violation because it's a much broader range of products.

 

You keep saying "illegal" when you mean "a violation of NFL policy".  As far as I know, PEDs are completely legal in every state, whereas they are a violation of NFL policy no matter what state you live in and what team you play for.

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11 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Yes, because not all "PEDs" are "a violation of NFL policy" whereas all marijuana products are.  All players know that all marijuana products violate NFL policy, but I doubt many of the players can recite verbatim the extensive list of PEDs, including masking agents for those PEDs, that would be a violation because it's a much broader range of products.

 

You keep saying "illegal" when you mean "a violation of NFL policy".  As far as I know, PEDs are completely legal in every state, whereas they are a violation of NFL policy no matter what state you live in and what team you play for.

Every Sport governing body has a list of banned items and anytime something changes every team team and/or coach are notified 

   Example:

      The IHSAA holds several mandatory rules meetings for coaches before each sport

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1 hour ago, Rackeen305 said:

 

 

Soooo the overall consensus is that if its sold in stores, therefore taxable then its not illegal. Even though the league banned this drug/substance.

 

That's not "the overall consensus", it's simply correct.  There are many drugs that are perfectly legal to take but that are still banned by the NFL.  The league banning a substance does not make it illegal.  It makes it banned.  That's why "banned" and "illegal" are 2 different words.  

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1 hour ago, Rackeen305 said:

You might want to contact the NFL anti doping department who rendered the random test. They will give you the facts which lead to the suspension for Mr. Garcia.

 

YOU are the one stating that what Garcia did was illegal, even though you have no idea what he actually took.  Also, I highly doubt the NFL would give out those facts to just anyone.  

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2 hours ago, J@son said:

 

That's not "the overall consensus", it's simply correct.  There are many drugs that are perfectly legal to take but that are still banned by the NFL.  The league banning a substance does not make it illegal.  It makes it banned.  That's why "banned" and "illegal" are 2 different words.  

 

2 hours ago, J@son said:

 

YOU are the one stating that what Garcia did was illegal, even though you have no idea what he actually took.  Also, I highly doubt the NFL would give out those facts to just anyone.  

Are you upset at me? or the NFL? or Mr. Garcia for being busted for the illegal drug? Im just stating what the league has reported. If you look at the OP. sorry for the sad news anyways.

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12 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

 

Are you upset at me? or the NFL? or Mr. Garcia for being busted for the illegal drug? Im just stating what the league has reported. If you look at the OP. sorry for the sad news anyways.

The problem in this discussion is the use of the word illegal.   A drug may be banned by the NFL, but that doesn’t make it illegal in the real world. 

 

There are plenty of drugs banned by the NFL that you can take legally, both over the counter or by prescription. Like steroids.   Or the drug Mathis said he used to help his wife get pregnant,  but it’s illegal in the league.

 

If you could get on the same page,  it might advance the discussion.  

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4 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

So I guess Mr. Garcia never knew that PEDs were illegal? But Mr. Gordon knew about herb (bi-product) which are sold as stock were illegal? no need for emojis. 

Illegal :  contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law.

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51 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

 

Are you upset at me? or the NFL? or Mr. Garcia for being busted for the illegal drug? Im just stating what the league has reported. If you look at the OP. sorry for the sad news anyways.

 

No I'm not upset. Just trying to get you to understand that what Mr. Garcia was busted for may or may not have been ILLEGAL.  

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7 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

 

 

Soooo the overall consensus is that if its sold in stores, therefore taxable then its not illegal. Even though the league banned this drug/substance. Go and tell that to Josh Gordon. Over half the states in the US has marijuana legal. Including Washington D.C.

 

If Josh Gordon was negatively impacted by illegal substances, then Garcia can cry me a river. He knew the LAW! Follow IT! 

 

I noticed you quoted me.  I asked a simple question.  Tread lightly, as your retort is over the top and not appreciated by myself.

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39 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

@Rackeen305 are you purposefully using semantics to derail this thread?

 

If so, you're doing a great job!  haha

 

tenor.gif?itemid=5574690

It seems that way, I was attacked for no reason????  I guess that is his "thing"????

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21 minutes ago, horseshoecrabs said:

So I guess hamburgers with poppy seed buns are probably on the NFL's banned list too. lol.  

You win the internet for the day!  Lock it up boys!:rock:

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2 hours ago, horseshoecrabs said:

So I guess hamburgers with poppy seed buns are probably on the NFL's banned list too. lol.  

 

2 hours ago, Coltsfan66 said:

You win the internet for the day!  Lock it up boys!:rock:

 

49 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

Poppy seeds *can* yield false positives on opiate drug tests. https://education.questdiagnostics.com/insights/88

 

Depends on quantity eaten and other factors.

 

Gotta stay off the poppy-seed muffins!

 

21cpgy.jpg

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On 6/10/2019 at 4:15 PM, Scott Pennock said:

I do wonder if he can challenge this as part of his rehab from losing 70+ lbs could have been a legal prescription of some type of roids?

 

On 6/10/2019 at 4:25 PM, MTC said:


That was one of my first thoughts. 

 

Couldn't read all the posts before I had to jump in.  Maybe, minute chance, he gets a very slight reduction if a physician testifies it was needed for patients treatment / health. We won't know the actual substance either. However,probably not as this is given to each player/agent from the NFLPA:

 

"If you have been or are seeking to be treated by a physician with a banned substance for any condition (including ADD/ADHD, male pattern baldness, hypertension, hypogonadism, or hypopituitarism), you must have your physician file a TUE application with the Independent Administrator. If you test positive for a prohibited substance without having been granted a TUE, it will constitute a positive test and will be referred for administrative action."

 

Note: a TUE is a Therapeutic Use Exemption

 

On 6/10/2019 at 5:26 PM, jvan1973 said:

Where is it against the law to take things sold at GNC

 

It's not against the law.  But anything ingested from anywhere (Including GNC) that contains any of these substances (whether listed on the label or not) on this site-

 

https://www.huntonretailindustryblog.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/16/2016/04/2014-NFL-List-of-Prohibited-Substances.pdf

 

or substances that eventually break down into one (or more) of those listed once in the body are subject to punishment for failing the Performance Enhancing Substances test.

 

On 6/10/2019 at 6:33 PM, Coltsfan66 said:

This is an excellent point!  I am not condoning any illegal use of PED's mind you, just kind of trying to figure out how legal supplements factor in?  What is next caffeine?  Again, not condoning illegal use, but there seems to be a very grey area?

 

They're fine, IF they do not have any of these in it as part of the ingredients-

 

https://www.huntonretailindustryblog.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/16/2016/04/2014-NFL-List-of-Prohibited-Substances.pdf

 

Rule of thumb, when in doubt, leave it out (of the pie hole). Any player can call team Dr. for advice at any time.

 

On 6/10/2019 at 6:43 PM, Douzer said:

If it's something his doctor recommended for his long term health, then a football leagues rules become an inferior consideration.

 

Yes, but they also have to play nice and pre-warn the NFL and apply for the exemption-

 

"Initial TUE application
As a reminder, all TUE applications must be sent to the Independent Administrator prior to the initiation of treatment."

 

 

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10 hours ago, Smonroe said:

Here's brief example.  When Ben Watson retired he was prescribed a substance to help him heal up.  A legal substance.  A substance that doctors often prescribe to men.  When he came out of retirement he was tested, and since that substance is banned by the NFL, he was suspended.

 

Ben Watson is an interesting case.  He received testosterone treatments in the offseason because he was 'going to retire'. Since he never really filed official retirement papers, he could still be tested in the off season for PES, and was. Since he was retiring, it wasn't a major concern to him.  Later he changed his mind, but learned his treatments he had failed that Performance Enhancing Substances test.  He and his treating physician should have applied for a TUE, even if Watson fully intended to file his retirement papers at a later date.  Watson probably won't appeal.  He knows the rules, timeline, and the repercussions of 'coming back' with a banned substance possibly still in his system.

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13 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

They will give you the facts which lead to the suspension for Mr. Garcia.

 

No, they won't.  The league communications department will just confirm his test was positive for a banned performance enhancing substance. That's all.  Nothing else. Anybody 'leaking' the details of the failed test without the players direct permission is subject to heavy fines and other punitive measures from the NFL, as well as a possible (depending the position/relationship of the leaker) HIPAA violation.

 

It's why you almost never hear what the 'stuff' was, unless the agent/player decide to leak out 'their version'

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16 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

No, they won't.  The league communications department will just confirm his test was positive for a banned performance enhancing substance. That's all.  Nothing else. Anybody 'leaking' the details of the failed test without the players direct permission is subject to heavy fines and other punitive measures from the NFL, as well as a possible (depending the position/relationship of the leaker) HIPAA violation.

 

It's why you almost never hear what the 'stuff' was, unless the agent/player decide to leak out 'their version'

Giving you the facts doesn't mean they will give you details. No emoji needed.

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22 hours ago, Coltsfan66 said:

It seems that way, I was attacked for no reason????  I guess that is his "thing"????

Next question.

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2 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

Next question.

If you give a fool enough rope, he will hang himself.

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17 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

Giving you the facts doesn't mean they will give you details. No emoji needed.

 

giphy.gif

 

I don't think there is an emoji that can fully encompass my reaction to all of your posts in this thread...

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