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PrincetonTiger

Bucs are releasing G McCoy- Option for the Colts?

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40 minutes ago, JMichael557 said:

Because we added Houston.  If Lewis is DE then you have to cut 

Al-Quadin Muhammad. We are not going to keep 10 D-Linemen

Yeah but we got rid of Ridgeway and Al Woods.

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21 minutes ago, JMichael557 said:

Because we added Houston.  If Lewis is DE then you have to cut 

Al-Quadin Muhammad. We are not going to keep 10 D-Linemen

 

Dud you know we had 10 D-lineman most of last year?    Not sure why we wouldn’t this year.

 

That’s 10 on the 53,  8 on the game day roster of 46.

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No I did not I counted nine on the roster at one time. Who were the ten. That would give us a list to start with. 

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1 hour ago, JMichael557 said:

Because we added Houston.  If Lewis is DE then you have to cut 

Al-Quadin Muhammad. We are not going to keep 10 D-Linemen

Why wouldnt you want McCoy over Muhammad though???
 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/player/al-quadin-muhammad-25651/career-stats

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/player/gerald-mccoy-13472/career-stats

 

I know it's a small sample size from Muhammad, but look at the sacks the McCoy gets consistently.  Last year was a down year for him and he still got 5.  Obviously Muhammad could improve, but they key word is could.  I would go with a proven guy more than the upside guy.

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14 minutes ago, BlueCrew48 said:

Why wouldnt you want McCoy over Muhammad though???
 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/player/al-quadin-muhammad-25651/career-stats

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/player/gerald-mccoy-13472/career-stats

 

I know it's a small sample size from Muhammad, but look at the sacks the McCoy gets consistently.  Last year was a down year for him and he still got 5.  Obviously Muhammad could improve, but they key word is could.  I would go with a proven guy more than the upside guy.


Well they play different positions for one.

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6 minutes ago, jskinnz said:


Well they play different positions for one.

I get that, but I am willing to drop a 3rd string player for a starter.  Plus, I think you generally expect an end to get more sacks than a dt.  I was surprised how many sacks he had.

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11 minutes ago, BlueCrew48 said:

I get that, but I am willing to drop a 3rd string player for a starter.  Plus, I think you generally expect an end to get more sacks than a dt.  I was surprised how many sacks he had.

 

Agree. I don't think cutting Muhammad gives Ballard any pause if they have the depth. They went out and picked up 3 EDGE players this offseason. 

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If we can pay him a 2 year contract that is team friendly and heavy on incentives, I’d be ok with it perhaps but I have fear we pay him bigger money, we are also at higher risk to start paying in his breakdown years. 

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Just now, Jdubu said:

If we can pay him a 2 year contract that is team friendly and heavy on incentives, I’d be ok with it perhaps but I have fear we pay him bigger money, we are also at higher risk to start paying in his breakdown years. 

Performance bonuses can be divided into two basic categories, incentives and salary escalators. Both types of bonuses can be used to bridge the financial gap when there is a disagreement in a negotiation between a player's agent and the team on the player's value. Incentives are also a way for a player taking a pay cut to make back some or all of the money he is losing through the salary reduction. 

 

Incentives are usually designed to be classified as not likely to be earned (NLTBE) so that they will not count against the salary cap when a deal is signed. Generally, any incentives with higher thresholds than the player or team's statistical performance in the prior season qualify as NLTBE. The most frequent categories for individual achievement are playtime or based on the player's primary function (i.e.; receptions or receiving yards for a wide receiver). Coupling an individual achievement with a team statistical performance also makes an incentive NLTBE. If earned, a team will incur a salary cap charge for most incentives after the playoffs end. Incentives are typically paid in February or March following the season in which they are earned.

 

Come have a ProBowl season and make it to the Super Bowl.  Pay him 8-10 mil instead of 15 like he is used to, and give him hella incentives.  Seems pretty simple to me.  He has never been to the post-season, he has to be wanting to go to a team that's in position to make a run this year.  Guys will take less for that chance.  And if they make it, they get paid and a ring.

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3 hours ago, JMichael557 said:

Here are the DT's Hunt, Audrey, Lewis, Stewart, Ward.

 

If you add McCoy you have to cut one of the above. Steward is the only true NT. So that leave Ward or Hunt. Do you want two 31-32 year old DTs? Are you willing to give up on Ward by cutting him? 

You could also trade one of the above as well.  That aside McCoy and Houston would be two big time playmakers added to the defense.  Even at his age McCoy is better than any of the five DT's you mentioned.  Adding McCoy would upgrade the position and make us a stronger contender IMO.  He fits the definition of a quality Ballard FA signing.  His price tag might be the hang up though.  I'm guessing we will know pretty quickly where he ends up. 

 

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Well now that the Bucs are apparently signing Suh, what does that say about their feeling on McCoy? Plot thickens. 

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27 minutes ago, BlueCrew48 said:

I get that, but I am willing to drop a 3rd string player for a starter.  Plus, I think you generally expect an end to get more sacks than a dt.  I was surprised how many sacks he had.

 

I don't believe Muhammad is viewed as 3rd string by the coaches.  I personally think they really like him.  I also don't think it is a sure thing that McCoy becomes a starter should he end up in Indy.

 

To the whole point of the thread - I keep coming back to something that JMV kept talking about leading up to the draft.  He's got some sources inside the Colts building who told him the team really likes its d'linemen.  I think McCoy to Indy is unlikely.

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Well, if this board was in charge of signing free agents, we would be at the bottom of available cap space in the league. 

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23 minutes ago, krunk said:

 

 

I hope I eat my words and Suh has a bad year, but if he comes out and beasts, I will be quoting some off you guys and saying "I told you so"   :goodluck:

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14 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

So,  we're now determining that McCoy is wanted in Cleveland because a player gives a thumbs up to GM coming to the team?     That's all it takes these days?

 

Wake me when there's a little more smoke....    a little more substance...

 

somebody else mentioned it in the thread and espn reported it. so i found it and posted it. 

 

nobody is saying it makes any difference. 

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2 minutes ago, BlueCrew48 said:

I hope I eat my words and Suh has a bad year, but if he comes out and beasts, I will be quoting some off you guys and saying "I told you so"   :goodluck:

Won't be quoting me because I'm one of the bigger Suh fans here!

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16 hours ago, Caffrey said:
  1. Might be a blessing in disguise, having both McCoy and Suh both available DT FA's.  One might think they should sign sooner than later with an opportunity to play of a up and coming competitor and can compete now for a Championship, with either as the final piece to the puzzle.  If we sign one of them, the other will be left looking for another team, unlikely with the upside of the Colts.  I think a fair 2 year contract would be OK, with some incentives. If either focuses on their game, preparation and physical conditioning, he can be a solid player with the supporting cast we can provide. 

 

Suh is signing with the bucs per reports. 

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6 minutes ago, krunk said:

Won't be quoting me because I'm one of the bigger Suh fans here!

Then you are safe..... for now!    :thmup:

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8 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

Why is that?

 

There seems to be this perception that Ballard has a general aversion to aging players, but his actions, especially when it comes to the DL, contradict that. Ballard gave both Al Woods and Margus two-year deals heading into their age 30 seasons...and just re-signed Hunt for his age 32 season. Ballard also gave a fairly large two-year deal to Justin Houston, an EDGE rusher, who will be entering his 9th year and age 30 season.

 

This will be McCoy's 10th year and age 31 season...and is a better talent than both Woods and Hunt. McCoy has also only missed 8 games in the past 6 seasons...compared to Houston who has missed 21 in the past 6 seasons. So if the previous signings made sense...then McCoy definitely does as well...from an age, durability and production standpoint. And then you factor in his locker room presence and leadership. 

 

I have been beating the drum for McCoy all offseason. IF he doesnt end up in CLE...I think he's a Colt...before the next OTAs begin (but possibly even sooner). Give him a two-year deal to add someone that can help them win now and next season...as well as be a mentor to any other young IDL players currently on the team or brought in next offseason (which I imagine will be a focus after addressing other areas this offseason).

Apologies if I was unclear.  I wasn't attempting to guess what Ballard's thoughts were on McCoy.  I was giving my own.  As far as I am concerned, McCoy isn't a player with a future.  He's a player with a certain amount of "now", and that's about it.  I understand your arguments to include him.  They're good arguments.  But my own personal armchair GM style says to bring in players with more future in them (Ebron) than those that have very little left (Mitchell, because we needed to, due to injuries and depth).

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2 hours ago, Jdubu said:

Well now that the Bucs are apparently signing Suh, what does that say about their feeling on McCoy? Plot thickens. 

 

Indeed.  What is it?  Performance? Medical? Personality rift? Just trying to make cap room somehow? Some combo of these?

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2 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Indeed.  What is it?  Performance? Medical? Personality rift? Just trying to make cap room somehow? Some combo of these?

I think cap casualty...but we'll have to see how much Suh is signed for.

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3 hours ago, BlueCrew48 said:

I hope I eat my words and Suh has a bad year, but if he comes out and beasts, I will be quoting some off you guys and saying "I told you so"   :goodluck:

He could "beast", and still be a bad addition to the locker room in the long run. 

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Quote

 

The Bucs are reported to being close to signing Suh to replace McCoy.

 

Browns & Patriots rumored to be interested in McCoy.  

 

I’d support the Colts bringing on McCoy to bolster our interior defensive line.   Not Suh but would do. 

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16 hours ago, krunk said:

Won't be quoting me because I'm one of the bigger Suh fans here!

How can someone be a fan of Suh.  I would have been OK with the Colts signing him because of his play, but as a person, I don't like him.  

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31 minutes ago, Myles said:

How can someone be a fan of Suh.  I would have been OK with the Colts signing him because of his play, but as a person, I don't like him.  

You can't even really say you know him as a person.  What has he done off the field to make you not like him?  On the field maybe you can point to a couple incidents years ago that he really hasn't repeated much if at all.  I can care less if the guy wants a big check because football is a business and things boil down to negotiations.  Asking price starts high and then you barter until you get an acceptable situation. Nobody ever faults a team for trying to get the highest dollars possible.  What specifically about him as a person do you not like?  And is it more rumor than it is truth? 

 

I've never seen so much skepticism from people(not calling you out specifically) for a guy whose never been arrested and has played every game of his career except 2 and never misses any practices voluntary on involuntary. But somehow he's a bad team mate and a bad character guy.   I've never seen anyone other than opponents openly say they don't like him. But I mean what are opponents supposed to say?  Correct me if I'm wrong most certainly, but I feel like I'm in the ballpark at least.

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15 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Indeed.  What is it?  Performance? Medical? Personality rift? Just trying to make cap room somehow? Some combo of these?

I think its mostly the cap space.... with Arians aboard now they are in a bit of transition...and there's no long term commitment with Suh.

 

Might as well save the cap dollars.

 

If Devin White is as good as advertised... he will likely assume the mantle as their leader on defense.

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Buc players have to be slightly *. They kick out a hard working good guy that gave his all to the Bucs and replace him with a head case that's all about himself..

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1 hour ago, krunk said:

You can't even really say you know him as a person.  What has he done off the field to make you not like him?  On the field maybe you can point to a couple incidents years ago that he really hasn't repeated much if at all.  I can care less if the guy wants a big check because football is a business and things boil down to negotiations.  Asking price starts high and then you barter until you get an acceptable situation. Nobody ever faults a team for trying to get the highest dollars possible.  What specifically about him as a person do you not like?  And is it more rumor than it is truth? 

 

I've never seen so much skepticism from people(not calling you out specifically) for a guy whose never been arrested and has played every game of his career except 2 and never misses any practices voluntary on involuntary. But somehow he's a bad team mate and a bad character guy.   I've never seen anyone other than opponents openly say they don't like him. But I mean what are opponents supposed to say?  Correct me if I'm wrong most certainly, but I feel like I'm in the ballpark at least.

Really?   I was thinking to myself that you must be a fan of his production.   He's a dirty player and that shows the character of him.   

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/10/28/ndamukong-suh-cheap-shots-dirty-hits/

 

The dirty hits are not the type that some players do that could just be hard hitting and playing through the down.   

Whatever money he wants doesn't bother me.   He's free to follow the money if winning isn't his priority.  

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6 minutes ago, Myles said:

Really?   I was thinking to myself that you must be a fan of his production.   He's a dirty player and that shows the character of him.   

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/10/28/ndamukong-suh-cheap-shots-dirty-hits/

 

The dirty hits are not the type that some players do that could just be hard hitting and playing through the down.   

Whatever money he wants doesn't bother me.   He's free to follow the money if winning isn't his priority.  

Again hits you're showing from the past.  As the article states "Suh’s legacy continues to cement itself in 2015. Kicking players’ helmets off must be Suh’s new specialty, because he did it twice. First against the Redskins’ Alfred Morris…"  and then it goes on to count BACKWARDS from previous years!   Man this is from 2015 which was like 4 years ago.

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2 minutes ago, krunk said:

Again hits you're showing from the past.  As the article states "Suh’s legacy continues to cement itself in 2015. Kicking players’ helmets off must be Suh’s new specialty, because he did it twice. First against the Redskins’ Alfred Morris…"  and then it goes on to count BACKWARDS from previous years!   Man this is from 2015 which was like 4 years ago.

The past is how I judge a persons character.    Do crappy things and I'm not a fan of yours.   It'd be different if it was one or 2 times, but one thing is certain, Suh is  a *.  It's just who he is.  He could change, but I'm not going to be a fan of the man.  He lost that.   That's not wrong.  He's been voted to be the dirties player several times.   

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GERALD MCCOYDL, UNSIGNED FREE AGENT

FOX Indianapolis' Mike Chappell reports the Colts have a "level on interest" in free agent DT Gerald McCoy.

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24 minutes ago, Myles said:

The past is how I judge a persons character.    Do crappy things and I'm not a fan of yours.   It'd be different if it was one or 2 times, but one thing is certain, Suh is  a *.  It's just who he is.  He could change, but I'm not going to be a fan of the man.  He lost that.   That's not wrong.  He's been voted to be the dirties player several times.   

I always say would I want to coach the person and would I want the person to be a role model to the kids I know

 

    Suh- no, No, No

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46 minutes ago, dw49 said:

GERALD MCCOYDL, UNSIGNED FREE AGENT

FOX Indianapolis' Mike Chappell reports the Colts have a "level on interest" in free agent DT Gerald McCoy.

It sounds like we have some interest as long as the price and contract demands don't get too crazy.

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25 minutes ago, krunk said:

It sounds like we have some interest as long as the price and contract demands don't get too crazy.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say we offer a 2 year 25 mil contract with 13 g in the first year

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Level of interest and Kicking tires doesn't sound that strong to me.

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