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Jared Cisneros

Luck or Ballard, who is more important to the Colts?

Who is more important to our team  

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  1. 1. Who is more important to the Colts



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4 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

We all know it takes the right GM the right Coach and the right QB to be a perennial SB contender. 

 

In my opinion it is a lot harder to find the tight Coach and right GM than it is to find the right QB. I feel like it is easier to measure the overall talent and leadership skills of a QB than it is to find a Coach and GM who work well together. A Coach who knows how to lead the entire team well. 

 

I voted GM. He has built this team to where everyone can lean on each other unlike we have seen before. Even when Manning was here there was only 1 year I can remember where both offense and defense did really well. And that was 2005 when we were undefeated until we faced Brees and the chargers. 

 

Ballard has built the most complete team I have ever seen in the Indy era. And that includes HC. 

 

Theres no GM in the league that I have faith could find a good QB like I do with Ballard. In the end i could see him trading 6 draft picks to move up to draft a starting caliber QB. 

 

Now I am of the opinion that Tom Brady is a system QB with a great GM/HC. We have seen several NE QBs have success in that system and go elsewhere and have little to no success. Unlike a lot of backups in this league. I'm not saying Brady is mediocre by any means. But he is a system QB nonetheless. 

 

My point is, I can see Ballard finding a QB who can fit THIS system. There is nothing wrong with system QBs. After all. Brady has how many rings? 

 

 

Also. I'm taking nothing away from Andrew who I believe is an elite QB. I am just saying having a GM who can assemble a scouting department like we have, coaches, and players like this, is most definitely more important than any QB. Sustained success. I will rejoice when I see Ballard stay here after Andrew retires, because I believe he is just that good. QBs retire a lot sooner than GMs do. 

 

In Ballard I trust. 

Good post Nanny but Belicheck found Brady for his system in the 6th rd, so my belief

is that Ballard can find a good QB for Reich's system 2 or 3 years before Luck retires. Ballard is playing chess when most other GM's are playing checkers, he is already thinking a few

moves ahead. 

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2 hours ago, aaron11 said:

lots of teams have good gms, look it up your self

 

I did. I dont understand your attitude here A-Aron. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001027372/article/nfl-gm-power-rankings-john-dorsey-kevin-colbert-rank-top-5%3fnetworkId=4595&site=.news&zone=story&zoneUrl=url%3Dstory&zoneKeys=s1%3Dstory&env&pageKeyValues=prtnr%3Danalysis%3bplyr%3Daaron_rodgers%3bplyr%3Ddeandre_hopkins%3bplyr%3Ddavid_bakhtiari&p.ct=Analysis&p.adsm=false&p.tcm=%23000&p.bgc1m=%23EAEAEA&sr=amp

 

This is a power ranking of the current GMs in the NFL. Any of them you would take over Ballard? If you dont have anything to contribute concerning your own statement then take your attitude and shove it. 

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Ballard Fan Boys: :cash::scoregood::thmup: 

 

Luck Fan Boys: :td: :cheer::applause: :number1: :worthy:

 

Poll:  :stir:  

 

Colts Fans: :argue: :facepalm:  :dunno: :catfight: :panic::HFire:

 

 

Poll Creator: :popcorn: lmao

 

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1 hour ago, King Colt said:

Well, I guess in the end the correct answer is …….what?

The Poll is pretty even, it is showing 49-47 Ballard. So there really is no correct answer. IMO, I still would rather have the Franchise QB to build around. You just need a GM that knows what he is doing and Grigson did not. You will have your occasional teams that are built great with a clock manager type/average QB like Dilfer, Johnson, Flacco, Foles, etc. but as I posted about a week ago, most of the teams that win SB's have a franchise QB or at least a QB that is very good and not average. 

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On 5/27/2019 at 8:53 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The Poll is pretty even, it is showing 49-47 Ballard. So there really is no correct answer. IMO, I still would rather have the Franchise QB to build around. You just need a GM that knows what he is doing and Grigson did not. You will have your occasional teams that are built great with a clock manager type/average QB like Dilfer, Johnson, Flacco, Foles, etc. but as I posted about a week ago, most of the teams that win SB's have a franchise QB or at least a QB that is very good and not average. 

 

There is very little data online talling about quality of GMs. I tried and searched and could only find current power rankings. I wanted to see a list of HOF GMs but couldn't find one.

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Here is a list of QB's that have won the SB over the last 25 seasons (1994-2018)

94 - Steve Young = great for his career

95 - Troy Aikman = great for his career

96 - Brett Favre = great for his career

97 - John Elway = great for his career 

98 - John Elway = great for his career

99 - Kurt Warner = great for his career

2000 - Trent Dilfer = average (1st one that was avg)

2001 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2002 - Brad Johnson = average (2nd one that is avg)

2003 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2004 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2005 - Big Ben = great for his career

2006 - Peyton Manning = great for his career

2007 - Eli Manning = very good for his career

2008 - Big Ben = great for his career

2009 - Drew Brees = great for his career

2010 - Aaron Rodgers = great for his career

2011 - Eli Manning = very good for his career

2012 - Joe Flacco = average (3rd one that is avg)

2013 - Russell Wilson = very good for his career

2014 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2015 - Peyton Manning = great for his career

2016 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2017 - Nick Foles = average (4th one that is avg)

2018 - Tom Brady = great for his career

 

25 seasons is a huge sample size determining the type of QB you need to win a SB. 21 of the 25 winners were either great or very good. That means only 4 times in 25 seasons, teams have won a SB without either a very good or great QB. Percentages do not lie. If a team doesn't have a very good or great QB over the last 25 seasons their chances of winning the SB are 16%. Teams that have had at least a very good QB or a great one have won 84% of the time. Like I said give me the very good to great QB all day and just a GM that knows what he is doing. The GM can be just above average to good if he has a QB that is very good or great. Grigson stunk.

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Here is a list of QB's that have won the SB over the last 25 seasons (1994-2018)

94 - Steve Young = great for his career

95 - Troy Aikman = great for his career

96 - Brett Favre = great for his career

97 - John Elway = great for his career 

98 - John Elway = great for his career

99 - Kurt Warner = great for his career

2000 - Trent Dilfer = average (1st one that was avg)

2001 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2002 - Brad Johnson = average (2nd one that is avg)

2003 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2004 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2005 - Big Ben = great for his career

2006 - Peyton Manning = great for his career

2007 - Eli Manning = very good for his career

2008 - Big Ben = great for his career

2009 - Drew Brees = great for his career

2010 - Aaron Rodgers = great for his career

2011 - Eli Manning = very good for his career

2012 - Joe Flacco = average (3rd one that is avg)

2013 - Russell Wilson = very good for his career

2014 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2015 - Peyton Manning = great for his career

2016 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2017 - Nick Foles = average (4th one that is avg)

2018 - Tom Brady = great for his career

 

25 seasons is a huge sample size determining the type of QB you need to win a SB. 21 of the 25 winners were either great or very good. That means only 4 times in 25 seasons, teams have won a SB without either a very good or great QB. Percentages do not lie. If a team doesn't have a very good or great QB over the last 25 seasons their chances of winning the SB are 16%. Teams that have had at least a very good QB or a great one have won 84% of the time. Like I said give me the very good to great QB all day and just a GM that knows what he is doing. The GM can be just above average to good if he has a QB that is very good or great. Grigson stunk.

 

Jerry Reese was the Giants GM from 2007-2017. In that time span Eli won 2 Superbowls and hasn't come close since. 

 

John Beake and Neal Dahlen were the GMs in 1998 and 1999 when Elway won his SBs and didnt win a SB for several years of top notch play before that. 

 

Tom Brady has had Bill his entire career as acting GM. Multiple SB wins. 

 

Bill Polian has a resume I dont need to explain. Top notch GM and several SB appearances. 

 

Kevin Colbert is the GM of the Steelers and was credited majorly for the 2005 and 2008 SB champion teams. 

 

The teams who won multiple SBs had good to great GMs. If you want multiple SBs you need the GM to be top notch. If you want more than 2 then those teams had ELITE leadership. 

 

If Ballard is Elite for his position, and Andrew is also considered Elite. I have to give the nod to Ballard. 

 

This has been the best discussion all offseason. 

 

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1 minute ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Jerry Reese was the Giants GM from 2007-2017. In that time span Eli won 2 Superbowls and hasn't come close since. 

 

John Beake and Neal Dahlen were the GMs in 1998 and 1999 when Elway won his SBs and didnt win a SB for several years of top notch play before that. 

 

Tom Brady has had Bill his entire career as acting GM. Multiple SB wins. 

 

Bill Polian has a resume I dont need to explain. Top notch GM and several SB appearances. 

 

Kevin Colbert is the GM of the Steelers and was credited majorly for the 2005 and 2008 SB champion teams. 

 

The teams who won multiple SBs had good to great GMs. If you want multiple SBs you need the GM to be top notch. If you want more than 2 then those teams had ELITE leadership. 

 

If Ballard is Elite for his position, and Andrew is also considered Elite. I have to give the nod to Ballard. 

 

This has been the best discussion all offseason. 

 

Yes solid discussion and for what it's worth I think so far Ballard has been very good if not great. Same for Andrew his whole career, the injury derailed Andrew for a couple of years but last year he looked back to normal. Our Colts are in a great situation right now, we should win a SB if not 2 over the next 7 years or so. It is rare a team has both a great GM and QB.

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11 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Here is a list of QB's that have won the SB over the last 25 seasons (1994-2018)

94 - Steve Young = great for his career

95 - Troy Aikman = great for his career

96 - Brett Favre = great for his career

97 - John Elway = great for his career 

98 - John Elway = great for his career

99 - Kurt Warner = great for his career

2000 - Trent Dilfer = average (1st one that was avg)

2001 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2002 - Brad Johnson = average (2nd one that is avg)

2003 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2004 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2005 - Big Ben = great for his career

2006 - Peyton Manning = great for his career

2007 - Eli Manning = very good for his career

2008 - Big Ben = great for his career

2009 - Drew Brees = great for his career

2010 - Aaron Rodgers = great for his career

2011 - Eli Manning = very good for his career

2012 - Joe Flacco = average (3rd one that is avg)

2013 - Russell Wilson = very good for his career

2014 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2015 - Peyton Manning = great for his career

2016 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2017 - Nick Foles = average (4th one that is avg)

2018 - Tom Brady = great for his career

 

25 seasons is a huge sample size determining the type of QB you need to win a SB. 21 of the 25 winners were either great or very good. That means only 4 times in 25 seasons, teams have won a SB without either a very good or great QB. Percentages do not lie. If a team doesn't have a very good or great QB over the last 25 seasons their chances of winning the SB are 16%. Teams that have had at least a very good QB or a great one have won 84% of the time. Like I said give me the very good to great QB all day and just a GM that knows what he is doing. The GM can be just above average to good if he has a QB that is very good or great. Grigson stunk.

Bh

 

10 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Jerry Reese was the Giants GM from 2007-2017. In that time span Eli won 2 Superbowls and hasn't come close since. 

 

John Beake and Neal Dahlen were the GMs in 1998 and 1999 when Elway won his SBs and didnt win a SB for several years of top notch play before that. 

 

Tom Brady has had Bill his entire career as acting GM. Multiple SB wins. 

 

Bill Polian has a resume I dont need to explain. Top notch GM and several SB appearances. 

 

Kevin Colbert is the GM of the Steelers and was credited majorly for the 2005 and 2008 SB champion teams. 

 

The teams who won multiple SBs had good to great GMs. If you want multiple SBs you need the GM to be top notch. If you want more than 2 then those teams had ELITE leadership. 

 

If Ballard is Elite for his position, and Andrew is also considered Elite. I have to give the nod to Ballard. 

 

This has been the best discussion all offseason. 

 

Excellent views from both sides. :applause:

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They’re both incredibly valuable to the team.  IMO however none of the QBs on this current team could lead the Colts to the playoffs besides Luck.  At the same time would Ballard draft a, or trade for a playoff caliber QB??  It’s possible.  

 

Having Luck on the team makes it so Ballard doesn’t have to exhaust picks and resources trying to bring in or develop a premier QB.  

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8 hours ago, Believe blue1306 said:

I would take darius leonard over both of them. That's a joke.. or is it? 

How about Nelson? homer simpson dancing GIF,

Vote out of 100 people is Ballard 51 Luck 49. Best poll ever.

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Without Luck,  Ballard can draft his * off with little success!  Without Ballard, Luck can play his * off with little success!  I believe this duo with Coach Frank Reich will go down in the company of Brady and Bill when all said and done.  Big shoes but right company.

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Already having a franchise QB = a very good to great QB coming into the job would make any GM's job easier. That is why I voted Luck. Ballard knew he had the most important position on the field locked up. When you have that, you can then just focus on building around the QB.

 

Grigson was gifted Luck in 2012 but where he failed was, he could not build around him properly. Any good GM could've with a talent like Luck. Compared to Grigson, almost anyone would look good.

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On 5/30/2019 at 7:27 PM, NannyMcafee said:

 

There is very little data online talling about quality of GMs. I tried and searched and could only find current power rankings. I wanted to see a list of HOF GMs but couldn't find one.

nfl.com does this occasionally, and i finally found one lol

 

 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001027372/article/nfl-gm-power-rankings-john-dorsey-kevin-colbert-rank-top-5.  the author is a bit of a patriots homer though and of course has BB #1.   I would probably put ballard a little higher than he did tbh, but still take luck over him

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12 hours ago, aaron11 said:

nfl.com does this occasionally, and i finally found one lol

 

 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001027372/article/nfl-gm-power-rankings-john-dorsey-kevin-colbert-rank-top-5.  the author is a bit of a patriots homer though and of course has BB #1.   I would probably put ballard a little higher than he did tbh, but still take luck over him

 

This will be a great topic to come back to at the end of Andrew's career. Ballard with 10 years of gm experience and a complete story of Andrew's career. 

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