Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Jared Cisneros

Luck or Ballard, who is more important to the Colts?

Who is more important to our team  

104 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is more important to the Colts



Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

We all know it takes the right GM the right Coach and the right QB to be a perennial SB contender. 

 

In my opinion it is a lot harder to find the tight Coach and right GM than it is to find the right QB. I feel like it is easier to measure the overall talent and leadership skills of a QB than it is to find a Coach and GM who work well together. A Coach who knows how to lead the entire team well. 

 

I voted GM. He has built this team to where everyone can lean on each other unlike we have seen before. Even when Manning was here there was only 1 year I can remember where both offense and defense did really well. And that was 2005 when we were undefeated until we faced Brees and the chargers. 

 

Ballard has built the most complete team I have ever seen in the Indy era. And that includes HC. 

 

Theres no GM in the league that I have faith could find a good QB like I do with Ballard. In the end i could see him trading 6 draft picks to move up to draft a starting caliber QB. 

 

Now I am of the opinion that Tom Brady is a system QB with a great GM/HC. We have seen several NE QBs have success in that system and go elsewhere and have little to no success. Unlike a lot of backups in this league. I'm not saying Brady is mediocre by any means. But he is a system QB nonetheless. 

 

My point is, I can see Ballard finding a QB who can fit THIS system. There is nothing wrong with system QBs. After all. Brady has how many rings? 

 

 

Also. I'm taking nothing away from Andrew who I believe is an elite QB. I am just saying having a GM who can assemble a scouting department like we have, coaches, and players like this, is most definitely more important than any QB. Sustained success. I will rejoice when I see Ballard stay here after Andrew retires, because I believe he is just that good. QBs retire a lot sooner than GMs do. 

 

In Ballard I trust. 

Good post Nanny but Belicheck found Brady for his system in the 6th rd, so my belief

is that Ballard can find a good QB for Reich's system 2 or 3 years before Luck retires. Ballard is playing chess when most other GM's are playing checkers, he is already thinking a few

moves ahead. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, aaron11 said:

lots of teams have good gms, look it up your self

 

I did. I dont understand your attitude here A-Aron. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001027372/article/nfl-gm-power-rankings-john-dorsey-kevin-colbert-rank-top-5%3fnetworkId=4595&site=.news&zone=story&zoneUrl=url%3Dstory&zoneKeys=s1%3Dstory&env&pageKeyValues=prtnr%3Danalysis%3bplyr%3Daaron_rodgers%3bplyr%3Ddeandre_hopkins%3bplyr%3Ddavid_bakhtiari&p.ct=Analysis&p.adsm=false&p.tcm=%23000&p.bgc1m=%23EAEAEA&sr=amp

 

This is a power ranking of the current GMs in the NFL. Any of them you would take over Ballard? If you dont have anything to contribute concerning your own statement then take your attitude and shove it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ballard Fan Boys: :cash::scoregood::thmup: 

 

Luck Fan Boys: :td: :cheer::applause: :number1: :worthy:

 

Poll:  :stir:  

 

Colts Fans: :argue: :facepalm:  :dunno: :catfight: :panic::HFire:

 

 

Poll Creator: :popcorn: lmao

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, King Colt said:

Well, I guess in the end the correct answer is …….what?

The Poll is pretty even, it is showing 49-47 Ballard. So there really is no correct answer. IMO, I still would rather have the Franchise QB to build around. You just need a GM that knows what he is doing and Grigson did not. You will have your occasional teams that are built great with a clock manager type/average QB like Dilfer, Johnson, Flacco, Foles, etc. but as I posted about a week ago, most of the teams that win SB's have a franchise QB or at least a QB that is very good and not average. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/27/2019 at 8:53 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The Poll is pretty even, it is showing 49-47 Ballard. So there really is no correct answer. IMO, I still would rather have the Franchise QB to build around. You just need a GM that knows what he is doing and Grigson did not. You will have your occasional teams that are built great with a clock manager type/average QB like Dilfer, Johnson, Flacco, Foles, etc. but as I posted about a week ago, most of the teams that win SB's have a franchise QB or at least a QB that is very good and not average. 

 

There is very little data online talling about quality of GMs. I tried and searched and could only find current power rankings. I wanted to see a list of HOF GMs but couldn't find one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a list of QB's that have won the SB over the last 25 seasons (1994-2018)

94 - Steve Young = great for his career

95 - Troy Aikman = great for his career

96 - Brett Favre = great for his career

97 - John Elway = great for his career 

98 - John Elway = great for his career

99 - Kurt Warner = great for his career

2000 - Trent Dilfer = average (1st one that was avg)

2001 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2002 - Brad Johnson = average (2nd one that is avg)

2003 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2004 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2005 - Big Ben = great for his career

2006 - Peyton Manning = great for his career

2007 - Eli Manning = very good for his career

2008 - Big Ben = great for his career

2009 - Drew Brees = great for his career

2010 - Aaron Rodgers = great for his career

2011 - Eli Manning = very good for his career

2012 - Joe Flacco = average (3rd one that is avg)

2013 - Russell Wilson = very good for his career

2014 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2015 - Peyton Manning = great for his career

2016 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2017 - Nick Foles = average (4th one that is avg)

2018 - Tom Brady = great for his career

 

25 seasons is a huge sample size determining the type of QB you need to win a SB. 21 of the 25 winners were either great or very good. That means only 4 times in 25 seasons, teams have won a SB without either a very good or great QB. Percentages do not lie. If a team doesn't have a very good or great QB over the last 25 seasons their chances of winning the SB are 16%. Teams that have had at least a very good QB or a great one have won 84% of the time. Like I said give me the very good to great QB all day and just a GM that knows what he is doing. The GM can be just above average to good if he has a QB that is very good or great. Grigson stunk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Here is a list of QB's that have won the SB over the last 25 seasons (1994-2018)

94 - Steve Young = great for his career

95 - Troy Aikman = great for his career

96 - Brett Favre = great for his career

97 - John Elway = great for his career 

98 - John Elway = great for his career

99 - Kurt Warner = great for his career

2000 - Trent Dilfer = average (1st one that was avg)

2001 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2002 - Brad Johnson = average (2nd one that is avg)

2003 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2004 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2005 - Big Ben = great for his career

2006 - Peyton Manning = great for his career

2007 - Eli Manning = very good for his career

2008 - Big Ben = great for his career

2009 - Drew Brees = great for his career

2010 - Aaron Rodgers = great for his career

2011 - Eli Manning = very good for his career

2012 - Joe Flacco = average (3rd one that is avg)

2013 - Russell Wilson = very good for his career

2014 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2015 - Peyton Manning = great for his career

2016 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2017 - Nick Foles = average (4th one that is avg)

2018 - Tom Brady = great for his career

 

25 seasons is a huge sample size determining the type of QB you need to win a SB. 21 of the 25 winners were either great or very good. That means only 4 times in 25 seasons, teams have won a SB without either a very good or great QB. Percentages do not lie. If a team doesn't have a very good or great QB over the last 25 seasons their chances of winning the SB are 16%. Teams that have had at least a very good QB or a great one have won 84% of the time. Like I said give me the very good to great QB all day and just a GM that knows what he is doing. The GM can be just above average to good if he has a QB that is very good or great. Grigson stunk.

 

Jerry Reese was the Giants GM from 2007-2017. In that time span Eli won 2 Superbowls and hasn't come close since. 

 

John Beake and Neal Dahlen were the GMs in 1998 and 1999 when Elway won his SBs and didnt win a SB for several years of top notch play before that. 

 

Tom Brady has had Bill his entire career as acting GM. Multiple SB wins. 

 

Bill Polian has a resume I dont need to explain. Top notch GM and several SB appearances. 

 

Kevin Colbert is the GM of the Steelers and was credited majorly for the 2005 and 2008 SB champion teams. 

 

The teams who won multiple SBs had good to great GMs. If you want multiple SBs you need the GM to be top notch. If you want more than 2 then those teams had ELITE leadership. 

 

If Ballard is Elite for his position, and Andrew is also considered Elite. I have to give the nod to Ballard. 

 

This has been the best discussion all offseason. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Jerry Reese was the Giants GM from 2007-2017. In that time span Eli won 2 Superbowls and hasn't come close since. 

 

John Beake and Neal Dahlen were the GMs in 1998 and 1999 when Elway won his SBs and didnt win a SB for several years of top notch play before that. 

 

Tom Brady has had Bill his entire career as acting GM. Multiple SB wins. 

 

Bill Polian has a resume I dont need to explain. Top notch GM and several SB appearances. 

 

Kevin Colbert is the GM of the Steelers and was credited majorly for the 2005 and 2008 SB champion teams. 

 

The teams who won multiple SBs had good to great GMs. If you want multiple SBs you need the GM to be top notch. If you want more than 2 then those teams had ELITE leadership. 

 

If Ballard is Elite for his position, and Andrew is also considered Elite. I have to give the nod to Ballard. 

 

This has been the best discussion all offseason. 

 

Yes solid discussion and for what it's worth I think so far Ballard has been very good if not great. Same for Andrew his whole career, the injury derailed Andrew for a couple of years but last year he looked back to normal. Our Colts are in a great situation right now, we should win a SB if not 2 over the next 7 years or so. It is rare a team has both a great GM and QB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Here is a list of QB's that have won the SB over the last 25 seasons (1994-2018)

94 - Steve Young = great for his career

95 - Troy Aikman = great for his career

96 - Brett Favre = great for his career

97 - John Elway = great for his career 

98 - John Elway = great for his career

99 - Kurt Warner = great for his career

2000 - Trent Dilfer = average (1st one that was avg)

2001 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2002 - Brad Johnson = average (2nd one that is avg)

2003 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2004 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2005 - Big Ben = great for his career

2006 - Peyton Manning = great for his career

2007 - Eli Manning = very good for his career

2008 - Big Ben = great for his career

2009 - Drew Brees = great for his career

2010 - Aaron Rodgers = great for his career

2011 - Eli Manning = very good for his career

2012 - Joe Flacco = average (3rd one that is avg)

2013 - Russell Wilson = very good for his career

2014 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2015 - Peyton Manning = great for his career

2016 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2017 - Nick Foles = average (4th one that is avg)

2018 - Tom Brady = great for his career

 

25 seasons is a huge sample size determining the type of QB you need to win a SB. 21 of the 25 winners were either great or very good. That means only 4 times in 25 seasons, teams have won a SB without either a very good or great QB. Percentages do not lie. If a team doesn't have a very good or great QB over the last 25 seasons their chances of winning the SB are 16%. Teams that have had at least a very good QB or a great one have won 84% of the time. Like I said give me the very good to great QB all day and just a GM that knows what he is doing. The GM can be just above average to good if he has a QB that is very good or great. Grigson stunk.

Bh

 

10 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Jerry Reese was the Giants GM from 2007-2017. In that time span Eli won 2 Superbowls and hasn't come close since. 

 

John Beake and Neal Dahlen were the GMs in 1998 and 1999 when Elway won his SBs and didnt win a SB for several years of top notch play before that. 

 

Tom Brady has had Bill his entire career as acting GM. Multiple SB wins. 

 

Bill Polian has a resume I dont need to explain. Top notch GM and several SB appearances. 

 

Kevin Colbert is the GM of the Steelers and was credited majorly for the 2005 and 2008 SB champion teams. 

 

The teams who won multiple SBs had good to great GMs. If you want multiple SBs you need the GM to be top notch. If you want more than 2 then those teams had ELITE leadership. 

 

If Ballard is Elite for his position, and Andrew is also considered Elite. I have to give the nod to Ballard. 

 

This has been the best discussion all offseason. 

 

Excellent views from both sides. :applause:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They’re both incredibly valuable to the team.  IMO however none of the QBs on this current team could lead the Colts to the playoffs besides Luck.  At the same time would Ballard draft a, or trade for a playoff caliber QB??  It’s possible.  

 

Having Luck on the team makes it so Ballard doesn’t have to exhaust picks and resources trying to bring in or develop a premier QB.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Believe blue1306 said:

I would take darius leonard over both of them. That's a joke.. or is it? 

How about Nelson? homer simpson dancing GIF,

Vote out of 100 people is Ballard 51 Luck 49. Best poll ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Without Luck,  Ballard can draft his * off with little success!  Without Ballard, Luck can play his * off with little success!  I believe this duo with Coach Frank Reich will go down in the company of Brady and Bill when all said and done.  Big shoes but right company.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Already having a franchise QB = a very good to great QB coming into the job would make any GM's job easier. That is why I voted Luck. Ballard knew he had the most important position on the field locked up. When you have that, you can then just focus on building around the QB.

 

Grigson was gifted Luck in 2012 but where he failed was, he could not build around him properly. Any good GM could've with a talent like Luck. Compared to Grigson, almost anyone would look good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/30/2019 at 7:27 PM, NannyMcafee said:

 

There is very little data online talling about quality of GMs. I tried and searched and could only find current power rankings. I wanted to see a list of HOF GMs but couldn't find one.

nfl.com does this occasionally, and i finally found one lol

 

 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001027372/article/nfl-gm-power-rankings-john-dorsey-kevin-colbert-rank-top-5.  the author is a bit of a patriots homer though and of course has BB #1.   I would probably put ballard a little higher than he did tbh, but still take luck over him

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, aaron11 said:

nfl.com does this occasionally, and i finally found one lol

 

 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001027372/article/nfl-gm-power-rankings-john-dorsey-kevin-colbert-rank-top-5.  the author is a bit of a patriots homer though and of course has BB #1.   I would probably put ballard a little higher than he did tbh, but still take luck over him

 

This will be a great topic to come back to at the end of Andrew's career. Ballard with 10 years of gm experience and a complete story of Andrew's career. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Thread of the Week

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Any one else catch the parts about Chad Kelly. About how he has to show them they can trust him off the field? I’m not pushing for Chad Kelly as our next Qb, but I found that part interesting. Almost makes me wonder IF he’s not gonna get his shot at the starting job regardless of FA or the Draft results.
    • Burrow was not thought of this highly early(when Ballard was rumored to like Herbert and Love). It was kind of an avalanche that was gaining more and more mass and power the more games got played. I don't think it was until November-December that people started talking about Burrow as a no. 1 pick. He just never had that body of work before this year and a lot of his most impressive games and against best opponents were at the end of the year.        I've heard Brady thrown around, but no idea if there is anything real behind those rumors. The rumors say that they are having hard time attracting any fans to their games and their owners think getting a legend like Brady to play for several years for them might jump start their new fanbase in LA. No idea whether to believe this or not. 
    • To me being a boom or bust is kind of a plus for a QB, because the worst you can be is mediocre once that rookie contract comes to an end. I would prefer for whoever we draft to be either great or horrible and for us to know relatively quickly so we can either invest in him or move on quickly. This is part of the appeal with Love for me. The things he needs to improve are heavily coaching based and I think we will have a good idea of where on the spectrum he will end up pretty quickly. For example - if you draft him and he's not ready to start by year 2, this is a red flag and you might start looking for another one. If 2 off-seasons and 1 in-season period are not enough for your coaching staff to get him ready you either have made a mistake with the draft pick or with your coaching staff and I do have good trust in the coaching staff so... 
    • For me the tiers are more important the the specific ranking... I rank players within a tier very similarly and even though I would have preferences within them, I don't feel strongly enough to argue one over the other.    Tier 1(sell the farm for him - i.e. multiple 1sts, multiple day 2 picks, etc) Burrow   Tier 2 (trade a significant asset for him - i.e. a future 1st round pick) Tua(if I have medical guarantees he'd be alright health-wise)   Tier 3 (trade a medium level asset for him(i.e. a second, a third...) or take him at #13) Love Herbert Tua(if our medical staff cannot give you any guarantees whatsoever either way -for example, there were some reports that it might be too early before the draft to tell whether he will be good or not)   Tier 4 (second round) Eason Fromm     Tier 5 (third-fourth round) Gordon(have to do more work on him, might change his ranking) Hurts   Tier 6 (round 5-7) Tua(if the medicals come bad and there is high risk of reinjury/retirement/not full recovery/etc.) Tyler Huntley Nate Stanley     I'm still watching some QBs so that's not my final ranking. 
    • Hey....    we’ve all had those whoops moments.    Comes with the territory.    I’ve had some whoppers!     
  • Members

    • ScotColt

      ScotColt 45

      New Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • harrisoncolts88

      harrisoncolts88 3

      Rookie
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • csmopar

      csmopar 8,977

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • austriancolt

      austriancolt 433

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • coltsfeva

      coltsfeva 1,392

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Shadow_Creek

      Shadow_Creek 519

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • WoolMagnet

      WoolMagnet 4,350

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • stitches

      stitches 6,920

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Kc77

      Kc77 0

      Rookie
      Joined:
      Last active:
×
×
  • Create New...