Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Jared Cisneros

Luck or Ballard, who is more important to the Colts?

Who is more important to our team  

104 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is more important to the Colts



Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

We all know it takes the right GM the right Coach and the right QB to be a perennial SB contender. 

 

In my opinion it is a lot harder to find the tight Coach and right GM than it is to find the right QB. I feel like it is easier to measure the overall talent and leadership skills of a QB than it is to find a Coach and GM who work well together. A Coach who knows how to lead the entire team well. 

 

I voted GM. He has built this team to where everyone can lean on each other unlike we have seen before. Even when Manning was here there was only 1 year I can remember where both offense and defense did really well. And that was 2005 when we were undefeated until we faced Brees and the chargers. 

 

Ballard has built the most complete team I have ever seen in the Indy era. And that includes HC. 

 

Theres no GM in the league that I have faith could find a good QB like I do with Ballard. In the end i could see him trading 6 draft picks to move up to draft a starting caliber QB. 

 

Now I am of the opinion that Tom Brady is a system QB with a great GM/HC. We have seen several NE QBs have success in that system and go elsewhere and have little to no success. Unlike a lot of backups in this league. I'm not saying Brady is mediocre by any means. But he is a system QB nonetheless. 

 

My point is, I can see Ballard finding a QB who can fit THIS system. There is nothing wrong with system QBs. After all. Brady has how many rings? 

 

 

Also. I'm taking nothing away from Andrew who I believe is an elite QB. I am just saying having a GM who can assemble a scouting department like we have, coaches, and players like this, is most definitely more important than any QB. Sustained success. I will rejoice when I see Ballard stay here after Andrew retires, because I believe he is just that good. QBs retire a lot sooner than GMs do. 

 

In Ballard I trust. 

Good post Nanny but Belicheck found Brady for his system in the 6th rd, so my belief

is that Ballard can find a good QB for Reich's system 2 or 3 years before Luck retires. Ballard is playing chess when most other GM's are playing checkers, he is already thinking a few

moves ahead. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, aaron11 said:

lots of teams have good gms, look it up your self

 

I did. I dont understand your attitude here A-Aron. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001027372/article/nfl-gm-power-rankings-john-dorsey-kevin-colbert-rank-top-5%3fnetworkId=4595&site=.news&zone=story&zoneUrl=url%3Dstory&zoneKeys=s1%3Dstory&env&pageKeyValues=prtnr%3Danalysis%3bplyr%3Daaron_rodgers%3bplyr%3Ddeandre_hopkins%3bplyr%3Ddavid_bakhtiari&p.ct=Analysis&p.adsm=false&p.tcm=%23000&p.bgc1m=%23EAEAEA&sr=amp

 

This is a power ranking of the current GMs in the NFL. Any of them you would take over Ballard? If you dont have anything to contribute concerning your own statement then take your attitude and shove it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ballard Fan Boys: :cash::scoregood::thmup: 

 

Luck Fan Boys: :td: :cheer::applause: :number1: :worthy:

 

Poll:  :stir:  

 

Colts Fans: :argue: :facepalm:  :dunno: :catfight: :panic::HFire:

 

 

Poll Creator: :popcorn: lmao

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, King Colt said:

Well, I guess in the end the correct answer is …….what?

The Poll is pretty even, it is showing 49-47 Ballard. So there really is no correct answer. IMO, I still would rather have the Franchise QB to build around. You just need a GM that knows what he is doing and Grigson did not. You will have your occasional teams that are built great with a clock manager type/average QB like Dilfer, Johnson, Flacco, Foles, etc. but as I posted about a week ago, most of the teams that win SB's have a franchise QB or at least a QB that is very good and not average. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/27/2019 at 8:53 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The Poll is pretty even, it is showing 49-47 Ballard. So there really is no correct answer. IMO, I still would rather have the Franchise QB to build around. You just need a GM that knows what he is doing and Grigson did not. You will have your occasional teams that are built great with a clock manager type/average QB like Dilfer, Johnson, Flacco, Foles, etc. but as I posted about a week ago, most of the teams that win SB's have a franchise QB or at least a QB that is very good and not average. 

 

There is very little data online talling about quality of GMs. I tried and searched and could only find current power rankings. I wanted to see a list of HOF GMs but couldn't find one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a list of QB's that have won the SB over the last 25 seasons (1994-2018)

94 - Steve Young = great for his career

95 - Troy Aikman = great for his career

96 - Brett Favre = great for his career

97 - John Elway = great for his career 

98 - John Elway = great for his career

99 - Kurt Warner = great for his career

2000 - Trent Dilfer = average (1st one that was avg)

2001 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2002 - Brad Johnson = average (2nd one that is avg)

2003 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2004 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2005 - Big Ben = great for his career

2006 - Peyton Manning = great for his career

2007 - Eli Manning = very good for his career

2008 - Big Ben = great for his career

2009 - Drew Brees = great for his career

2010 - Aaron Rodgers = great for his career

2011 - Eli Manning = very good for his career

2012 - Joe Flacco = average (3rd one that is avg)

2013 - Russell Wilson = very good for his career

2014 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2015 - Peyton Manning = great for his career

2016 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2017 - Nick Foles = average (4th one that is avg)

2018 - Tom Brady = great for his career

 

25 seasons is a huge sample size determining the type of QB you need to win a SB. 21 of the 25 winners were either great or very good. That means only 4 times in 25 seasons, teams have won a SB without either a very good or great QB. Percentages do not lie. If a team doesn't have a very good or great QB over the last 25 seasons their chances of winning the SB are 16%. Teams that have had at least a very good QB or a great one have won 84% of the time. Like I said give me the very good to great QB all day and just a GM that knows what he is doing. The GM can be just above average to good if he has a QB that is very good or great. Grigson stunk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Here is a list of QB's that have won the SB over the last 25 seasons (1994-2018)

94 - Steve Young = great for his career

95 - Troy Aikman = great for his career

96 - Brett Favre = great for his career

97 - John Elway = great for his career 

98 - John Elway = great for his career

99 - Kurt Warner = great for his career

2000 - Trent Dilfer = average (1st one that was avg)

2001 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2002 - Brad Johnson = average (2nd one that is avg)

2003 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2004 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2005 - Big Ben = great for his career

2006 - Peyton Manning = great for his career

2007 - Eli Manning = very good for his career

2008 - Big Ben = great for his career

2009 - Drew Brees = great for his career

2010 - Aaron Rodgers = great for his career

2011 - Eli Manning = very good for his career

2012 - Joe Flacco = average (3rd one that is avg)

2013 - Russell Wilson = very good for his career

2014 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2015 - Peyton Manning = great for his career

2016 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2017 - Nick Foles = average (4th one that is avg)

2018 - Tom Brady = great for his career

 

25 seasons is a huge sample size determining the type of QB you need to win a SB. 21 of the 25 winners were either great or very good. That means only 4 times in 25 seasons, teams have won a SB without either a very good or great QB. Percentages do not lie. If a team doesn't have a very good or great QB over the last 25 seasons their chances of winning the SB are 16%. Teams that have had at least a very good QB or a great one have won 84% of the time. Like I said give me the very good to great QB all day and just a GM that knows what he is doing. The GM can be just above average to good if he has a QB that is very good or great. Grigson stunk.

 

Jerry Reese was the Giants GM from 2007-2017. In that time span Eli won 2 Superbowls and hasn't come close since. 

 

John Beake and Neal Dahlen were the GMs in 1998 and 1999 when Elway won his SBs and didnt win a SB for several years of top notch play before that. 

 

Tom Brady has had Bill his entire career as acting GM. Multiple SB wins. 

 

Bill Polian has a resume I dont need to explain. Top notch GM and several SB appearances. 

 

Kevin Colbert is the GM of the Steelers and was credited majorly for the 2005 and 2008 SB champion teams. 

 

The teams who won multiple SBs had good to great GMs. If you want multiple SBs you need the GM to be top notch. If you want more than 2 then those teams had ELITE leadership. 

 

If Ballard is Elite for his position, and Andrew is also considered Elite. I have to give the nod to Ballard. 

 

This has been the best discussion all offseason. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Jerry Reese was the Giants GM from 2007-2017. In that time span Eli won 2 Superbowls and hasn't come close since. 

 

John Beake and Neal Dahlen were the GMs in 1998 and 1999 when Elway won his SBs and didnt win a SB for several years of top notch play before that. 

 

Tom Brady has had Bill his entire career as acting GM. Multiple SB wins. 

 

Bill Polian has a resume I dont need to explain. Top notch GM and several SB appearances. 

 

Kevin Colbert is the GM of the Steelers and was credited majorly for the 2005 and 2008 SB champion teams. 

 

The teams who won multiple SBs had good to great GMs. If you want multiple SBs you need the GM to be top notch. If you want more than 2 then those teams had ELITE leadership. 

 

If Ballard is Elite for his position, and Andrew is also considered Elite. I have to give the nod to Ballard. 

 

This has been the best discussion all offseason. 

 

Yes solid discussion and for what it's worth I think so far Ballard has been very good if not great. Same for Andrew his whole career, the injury derailed Andrew for a couple of years but last year he looked back to normal. Our Colts are in a great situation right now, we should win a SB if not 2 over the next 7 years or so. It is rare a team has both a great GM and QB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Here is a list of QB's that have won the SB over the last 25 seasons (1994-2018)

94 - Steve Young = great for his career

95 - Troy Aikman = great for his career

96 - Brett Favre = great for his career

97 - John Elway = great for his career 

98 - John Elway = great for his career

99 - Kurt Warner = great for his career

2000 - Trent Dilfer = average (1st one that was avg)

2001 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2002 - Brad Johnson = average (2nd one that is avg)

2003 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2004 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2005 - Big Ben = great for his career

2006 - Peyton Manning = great for his career

2007 - Eli Manning = very good for his career

2008 - Big Ben = great for his career

2009 - Drew Brees = great for his career

2010 - Aaron Rodgers = great for his career

2011 - Eli Manning = very good for his career

2012 - Joe Flacco = average (3rd one that is avg)

2013 - Russell Wilson = very good for his career

2014 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2015 - Peyton Manning = great for his career

2016 - Tom Brady = great for his career

2017 - Nick Foles = average (4th one that is avg)

2018 - Tom Brady = great for his career

 

25 seasons is a huge sample size determining the type of QB you need to win a SB. 21 of the 25 winners were either great or very good. That means only 4 times in 25 seasons, teams have won a SB without either a very good or great QB. Percentages do not lie. If a team doesn't have a very good or great QB over the last 25 seasons their chances of winning the SB are 16%. Teams that have had at least a very good QB or a great one have won 84% of the time. Like I said give me the very good to great QB all day and just a GM that knows what he is doing. The GM can be just above average to good if he has a QB that is very good or great. Grigson stunk.

Bh

 

10 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Jerry Reese was the Giants GM from 2007-2017. In that time span Eli won 2 Superbowls and hasn't come close since. 

 

John Beake and Neal Dahlen were the GMs in 1998 and 1999 when Elway won his SBs and didnt win a SB for several years of top notch play before that. 

 

Tom Brady has had Bill his entire career as acting GM. Multiple SB wins. 

 

Bill Polian has a resume I dont need to explain. Top notch GM and several SB appearances. 

 

Kevin Colbert is the GM of the Steelers and was credited majorly for the 2005 and 2008 SB champion teams. 

 

The teams who won multiple SBs had good to great GMs. If you want multiple SBs you need the GM to be top notch. If you want more than 2 then those teams had ELITE leadership. 

 

If Ballard is Elite for his position, and Andrew is also considered Elite. I have to give the nod to Ballard. 

 

This has been the best discussion all offseason. 

 

Excellent views from both sides. :applause:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They’re both incredibly valuable to the team.  IMO however none of the QBs on this current team could lead the Colts to the playoffs besides Luck.  At the same time would Ballard draft a, or trade for a playoff caliber QB??  It’s possible.  

 

Having Luck on the team makes it so Ballard doesn’t have to exhaust picks and resources trying to bring in or develop a premier QB.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Believe blue1306 said:

I would take darius leonard over both of them. That's a joke.. or is it? 

How about Nelson? homer simpson dancing GIF,

Vote out of 100 people is Ballard 51 Luck 49. Best poll ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Without Luck,  Ballard can draft his * off with little success!  Without Ballard, Luck can play his * off with little success!  I believe this duo with Coach Frank Reich will go down in the company of Brady and Bill when all said and done.  Big shoes but right company.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Already having a franchise QB = a very good to great QB coming into the job would make any GM's job easier. That is why I voted Luck. Ballard knew he had the most important position on the field locked up. When you have that, you can then just focus on building around the QB.

 

Grigson was gifted Luck in 2012 but where he failed was, he could not build around him properly. Any good GM could've with a talent like Luck. Compared to Grigson, almost anyone would look good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/30/2019 at 7:27 PM, NannyMcafee said:

 

There is very little data online talling about quality of GMs. I tried and searched and could only find current power rankings. I wanted to see a list of HOF GMs but couldn't find one.

nfl.com does this occasionally, and i finally found one lol

 

 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001027372/article/nfl-gm-power-rankings-john-dorsey-kevin-colbert-rank-top-5.  the author is a bit of a patriots homer though and of course has BB #1.   I would probably put ballard a little higher than he did tbh, but still take luck over him

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, aaron11 said:

nfl.com does this occasionally, and i finally found one lol

 

 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001027372/article/nfl-gm-power-rankings-john-dorsey-kevin-colbert-rank-top-5.  the author is a bit of a patriots homer though and of course has BB #1.   I would probably put ballard a little higher than he did tbh, but still take luck over him

 

This will be a great topic to come back to at the end of Andrew's career. Ballard with 10 years of gm experience and a complete story of Andrew's career. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Thread of the Week

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • That is ThreeFlight at his finest.  
    • I agree with some of the points the OP has made, but not all. CB has improved our OL immensely through the draft, also drafted some good players on defense,  struckout on the WR's, and signing proven FA's.  I've been preaching all season to open up the pocketbook and sign, and pay some playmakers that can give us a fighting chance, instead we sign Hoyer for $12 mil. give JB a $20 mil. extension,  like somehow, after watching his play this season, is somehow going to become a legit NFL starting QB?       Not calling for his head like some members in here, but not crowning him as some members in here are.  
    • Philly pulled it out in OT and Wentz didn't have one completion in the air of more than 10 yards. He dinked and dunked it down the field. Much like JB and over half the QB's do on most drives. I really don't think JB is much different than most of these QB's out here. Like I said earlier you only have about 4 or 5 QB's that are consistent = franchise QB's for sure that standout. The rest are inconsistent. Like Watson yesterday vs Denver at home. He stunk. Luck was a franchise QB but he retired. 
    • Wasn’t it a 4th down and thus moot because he didn’t get the 1st down anyway?
    • The Calendar still says December, so congratulations, I nominate this post for Worst Post of the Year!   It shows you don’t know football, you don’t know the Colts and you don’t know people.   Other than that, you’re good!   Ballard?   Cocky?    Oh, Dear God!   Ballard and Luck don’t like each other?  Oh, Dear God!   1.  You think we should’ve been a contender even with the sudden retirement of a top-5 QB.    You don’t know football.   2.  You’re whole view of Ballard and Luck is based on nothing but opinion.  No facts.   Just your own analysis.    3.  You try to show that Grigson is better than Ballard based in their records of the first three years.   You fail to recognize that Ballard’s first year, while technically his, was a mess based on what Grigson left him PLUS Luck’s injury.   It’s not a fair Apples to Apples comparison.  People who understand football understand this.   4.  Money.  We didn’t spend it in ‘18 and did well.  Yet you act as if ‘19 FA spending reveals anything negative.  Houston is a success.  Funchess got hurt, so there’s no revelation of any kind.  So your analysis fails.   Especially the part where you say Luck quit over it.  Again, you’ve got no proof and you ignore Luck’s personal history which shows no temper tantrums or fits.  The Andrew Luck you describe is a figment of your imagination.    5.  Draft.   You’re judging the ‘19 draft after 13 weeks.  Drafts are judged after 3 years.   Grigson’s ‘12 draft was proclaimed the 9th best of all time.  Now it’s down to just Hilton.  That’s all.  You’re so premature about this it shows how desperate you are to build a case no matter what,   6.  Accountability.  Again.  You’re on the outside looking in.  You’re not in the locker room.  You’re guessing and desperately reaching.   Special players get special treatment when it’s warranted.   When you have a player considered the GOAT you cut him some slack.  He’s earned that.  As for the OL coach firing, you blame Ballard, but the reported stories say it was Frank’s call and Ballard supported him.  But you’re so hot to blame Ballard for everything.   7.  Players.   Your evaluations don’t interest me.   To be blunt, you don’t know your rear end from a whole in the wall.   Period.   You think you do.  But you don’t.   Sorry.   8.  Pay off:   I love this...  this is your crowning criticism.  The Colts of today are only good and not great.  They remind you of the Chiefs of Andy Reid’s  first few years which were playoff caliber teams.  And you try to insult those teams by placing the blame for them not being better on the fact Ballard was their assistant GM.     Again....   you’re so desperate to blame Ballard for where we are that your rant is jam packed with your opinion.  I appreciate that you’ve been a Colts fan forever and wear Colts gear, but none of that means you know what you’re talking about.  And I’m sorry to say this long rant — while therapeutic for you — only shows how little you know football and can’t evaluate people or organizations.    Sorry.     PS — when the season is done I’m willing to bet that the person Ballard blames the most for this season is.....  Chris Ballard. 
  • Members

×
×
  • Create New...