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Scott Pennock

Defensive Wrinkles & Banogu's Potential Role

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Apologies as I couldn't find the correct topic to post this in, however, this article has a connect the dots piece concerning Ed Dodds Seattle background, Eberflus and the drafting of Banogu.

 

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2019/5/14/18622525/what-wrinkles-to-expect-from-matt-eberflus-year-2-colts-defense

 

In this article it gives us a more definitive glimpse into how Banogu may be used.

 

In San Francisco when Pete Carroll was there they called it "Elephant" and in Seattle he calls it " Leo".

 

I have attached a couple articles concerning the base defense with the "Leo" position in it for those that are as curious as me!

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/defense-101-understanding-how-the-seahawks-play/

 

https://www.fieldgulls.com/football-breakdowns/2013/6/4/4350052/seahawks-defense-pete-carroll-leo-and-5-tech

 

https://www-bigcatcountry-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bigcatcountry.com/platform/amp/2013/1/19/3890928/gus-bradley-defense-leo-position?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFCAGgAQI%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bigcatcountry.com%2F2013%2F1%2F19%2F3890928%2Fgus-bradley-defense-leo-position

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Man coverage and rushing four with the occasional blitz is the way to go, IMO, to beat the elite QBs!!! 

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Ballard said think about how Seattle used Bruce Irvin when picturing a role for Banogu with the Colts.

 

From the man's own mouth today! Irvin was Seattle's "LEO" while there! I, for one, look forward to seeing it play itself out.

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After reading the articles the "LEO" DE is supposed to be the lighter faster DE whose primary role is rushing the QB.  The other three DL people are supposed to be much larger and heavier. If  there is an obvious passing down the other DE is switched out for a faster pass rusher.  I  don't think we have the three big DT and DL to play the same system Seattle used.  Maybe it's a goal but I don't think we are quite there yet.  Looks like we need a couple more big fellas who can play on the DL. 

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2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

After reading the articles the "LEO" DE is supposed to be the lighter faster DE whose primary role is rushing the QB.  The other three DL people are supposed to be much larger and heavier. If  there is an obvious passing down the other DE is switched out for a faster pass rusher.  I  don't think we have the three big DT and DL to play the same system Seattle used.  Maybe it's a goal but I don't think we are quite there yet.  Looks like we need a couple more big fellas who can play on the DL. 

 

They'll use Autry, Lewis and probably even ward at DE in the "big" packages

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At the time, they were crucified for the Irvin pick.  Few people apparenty had an understanding of what they were going for.  

 

Reading a more detailed breakdown of the Seattle SAM/Leo, it sure sounds like Banogu and what the Colts seem to be going for.   

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Expect to see a lot of speed on third down. Turay Autry Lewis Houston with Banogu as a stand up rusher. Can even throw in Moore off the corner

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5 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

Ballard said think about how Seattle used Bruce Irvin when picturing a role for Banogu with the Colts.

 

From the man's own mouth today! Irvin was Seattle's "LEO" while there! I, for one, look forward to seeing it play itself out.

Irvin was a SAM

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It's interesting, when Seattle won the Super Bowl, they didn't have a huge sack guy - the sacks were more evenly distributed - and their LBs had a fair number of sacks.  I could see a similar distribution with our lineup.  

 

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I would hope that they will continue to develop his Edge rushing skills over time behind Houston so he can learn to effectively win from the Edge. If he adds that to his ability to play other positions and roles like LEO/joker, he’d be truly devastating.

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8 hours ago, #12. said:

It's interesting, when Seattle won the Super Bowl, they didn't have a huge sack guy - the sacks were more evenly distributed - and their LBs had a fair number of sacks.  I could see a similar distribution with our lineup.  

 

 

True. I can also see Marvell Tell groomed into a guy like Richard Sherman at CB with his length, would not be shocked if that is in the plans.

 

They sent K.J.Wright and Wagner on occasional blitzes, plus had the long arms to get in passing lanes which made it hard to pass on them, got 2 INTs vs Brady in that 2014 SB. However, Gronk and Edelman and their fiesty nature and mismatches they brought to the table allowed the Patriots to make their comeback. Plus, the fact that Chancellor and Earl Thomas were banged up resulting in offseason surgeries, plus the fact that Jeremy Lane's knees were taken out by Edelman after the first INT, and Avril was given a concussion by their RB Bolden when the score was 24-14 in Seattle's favor, following which they couldn't get pressure, and the comeback happened.

 

Seattle's trademark however was the quality of the DL rotation that allowed push down the middle, some of them left after their historic 2013 SB run, that amplified what the LOB could do. 

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2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

I would hope that they will continue to develop his Edge rushing skills over time behind Houston so he can learn to effectively win from the Edge. If he adds that to his ability to play other positions and roles like LEO/joker, he’d be truly devastating.

I believe they will. Really Bruce Irvin is more of what this is going to look like in my opinion.

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17 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

True. I can also see Marvell Tell groomed into a guy like Richard Sherman at CB with his length, would not be shocked if that is in the plans.

 

They sent K.J.Wright and Wagner on occasional blitzes, plus had the long arms to get in passing lanes which made it hard to pass on them, got 2 INTs vs Brady in that 2014 SB. However, Gronk and Edelman and their fiesty nature and mismatches they brought to the table allowed the Patriots to make their comeback. Plus, the fact that Chancellor and Earl Thomas were banged up resulting in offseason surgeries, plus the fact that Jeremy Lane's knees were taken out by Edelman after the first INT, and Avril was given a concussion by their RB Bolden when the score was 24-14 in Seattle's favor, following which they couldn't get pressure, and the comeback happened.

 

Seattle's trademark however was the quality of the DL rotation that allowed push down the middle, some of them left after their historic 2013 SB run, that amplified what the LOB could do. 

Sherman or Browner was the thinking according to the latest Indystar article for Marvell Tell.

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11 hours ago, CR91 said:

Expect to see a lot of speed on third down. Turay Autry Lewis Houston with Banogu as a stand up rusher. Can even throw in Moore off the corner

Do you mean speed or Speed? Or both?haha

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Our defense will be special

                                

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1 hour ago, Scott Pennock said:

Correct, they also called him the LEO 

Easily confused but no, they don’t call Irvin a LEO in those articles and there is a big difference.  Ballard has likened Banogu to Irvin and Jamie Collins...not to Chris Clemons or Cliff Avril who are LEOs

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22 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

Easily confused but no, they don’t call Irvin a LEO in those articles and there is a big difference.  Ballard has likened Banogu to Irvin and Jamie Collins...not to Chris Clemons or Cliff Avril who are LEOs

Irvin entered training camp getting first team reps at the Seahawks' hybrid Leo (defensive end/outside linebacker) position while Chris Clemons was in a contract hold out.[20] Once Clemons returned in July, Irvin reverted to the second team defense.[21] Head coach Pete Carroll named him the backup defensive end behind Clemons to start the regular season, with Red Bryant occupying the other side.[22

 

He was moved back and forth throughout his career.....SAM and LEO so I'll agree that we're both correct! Lol

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22 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

Irvin entered training camp getting first team reps at the Seahawks' hybrid Leo (defensive end/outside linebacker) position while Chris Clemons was in a contract hold out.[20] Once Clemons returned in July, Irvin reverted to the second team defense.[21] Head coach Pete Carroll named him the backup defensive end behind Clemons to start the regular season, with Red Bryant occupying the other side.[22

 

He was moved back and forth throughout his career.....SAM and LEO so I'll agree that we're both correct! Lol

Wikipedia?  OK...moving on.

 

I think your original intent was to discuss the role that Banogu might be used in as a Hybrid player...if we’re going to use Ballard’s own words to project that role for him then we’ll probably need to understand the role Irvin played in subsequent years and that’s a different role than Seattle called LEO...

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On 5/14/2019 at 11:31 AM, Scott Pennock said:

Apologies as I couldn't find the correct topic to post this in, however, this article has a connect the dots piece concerning Ed Dodds Seattle background, Eberflus and the drafting of Banogu.

 

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2019/5/14/18622525/what-wrinkles-to-expect-from-matt-eberflus-year-2-colts-defense

 

In this article it gives us a more definitive glimpse into how Banogu may be used.

 

In San Francisco when Pete Carroll was there they called it "Elephant" and in Seattle he calls it " Leo".

 

I have attached a couple articles concerning the base defense with the "Leo" position in it for those that are as curious as me!

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/defense-101-understanding-how-the-seahawks-play/

 

https://www.fieldgulls.com/football-breakdowns/2013/6/4/4350052/seahawks-defense-pete-carroll-leo-and-5-tech

 

https://www-bigcatcountry-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bigcatcountry.com/platform/amp/2013/1/19/3890928/gus-bradley-defense-leo-position?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFCAGgAQI%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bigcatcountry.com%2F2013%2F1%2F19%2F3890928%2Fgus-bradley-defense-leo-position

 

A possible name here could be "Leo the Elephant"? :D

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51 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

Wikipedia?  OK...moving on.

 

I think your original intent was to discuss the role that Banogu might be used in as a Hybrid player...if we’re going to use Ballard’s own words to project that role for him then we’ll probably need to understand the role Irvin played in subsequent years and that’s a different role than Seattle called LEO...

From Gus Bradley the former D Coordinator...

 

Since the Leo plays from a looser alignment and operates in space, he doesn't need to have great size. Chris Clemons is listed at only 6'3 and 254 pounds. Bruce Irvin is an even smaller 6'3, 248.

 

And also this....from Dan Quinn, the replacement for Bradley after he left for a head coaching gig.

 

The strongside linebacker, as referenced earlier, typically is aligned on the line of scrimmage, a role usually played by Irvin or Malcolm Smith.

 

The Sam backer has a key role in containing outside running plays while also being called on to rush the passer, or at times cover. “He has to be long enough to take on a tackle, a tight end or a back and turn the ball back and he could be a blitzer where he has enough rush skills so that he’s closer to a defensive end,’’ Quinn said.

 

So again, one would think he's done both within the system depending on personnel and coaching staff.

 

We can keep beating a dead horse but it still remains that he's played both and it's likely that Banogu will as well. 

 

Either way I don't care just as long as he fits the role and produces as much as is needed!

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I watched the first 3:20 of these highlights of Bruce Irvin while with Seattle and he lined up at the LEO in every highlighted snap....

 

 

I will continue watching to see the progression to SAM that he made, but, if we get this production from Banogu at LEO/SAM I'll be happy.

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33 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

I watched the first 3:20 of these highlights of Bruce Irvin while with Seattle and he lined up at the LEO in every highlighted snap....

 

 

I will continue watching to see the progression to SAM that he made, but, if we get this production from Banogu at LEO/SAM I'll be happy.

Video is an excellent visual on how Ballard suggests Banogu will start his career...I share your excitement that we would invest a premium pick in a player intended to be used with such versatility!

 

There is a snap of him playing LEO as a rookie at 3:08 and one more after that, but the other snaps with his hand down are as a nickel rusher in tandem with Clemons or Avril.

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8 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

Video is an excellent visual on how Ballard suggests Banogu will start his career...I share your excitement that we would invest a premium pick in a player intended to be used with such versatility!

 

There is a snap of him playing LEO as a rookie at 3:08 and one more after that, but the other snaps with his hand down are as a nickel rusher in tandem with Clemons or Avril.

 

everytime you see seattle en a bear front w irvin as the 4th rusher en a wide alignment is Irvin en his Leo role i don’t get what you don’t get

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5 minutes ago, MFT5 said:

 

everytime you see seattle en a bear front w irvin as the 4th rusher en a wide alignment is Irvin en his Leo role i don’t get what you don’t get

Bear_Front.JPG?_ga=2.68729169.1915041804

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17 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

Bear_Front.JPG?_ga=2.68729169.1915041804

 

ben Banogu will be rushing the passer and playing coverage both standing & w his hand en the dirt. what more needs to be explained 

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In Bowen's podcast, he said Ballard(or the Colts) have said yeah, our defense is the Seattle defense.  That's what they're going for.  Just some minor differences, maybe.

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On 5/15/2019 at 10:29 AM, krunk said:

I believe they will. Really Bruce Irvin is more of what this is going to look like in my opinion.

That’s re-assuring. Because we’re still searching for those young pass rushers of the future. I’m hoping he can be one.

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