DT/NT

[DerekDiggler]

As I read through this thread I wonder how many actually know the difference between the UT and the NT. 

[Coltsfan66]

2 minutes ago, DerekDiggler said:

As I read through this thread I wonder how many actually know the difference between the UT and the NT. 

I agree, as their roles are different.  Btw, say "hey" to roller girl for me Brah!  

[rock8591]

goal lines - Stewart, Hunt, Ward all in there

 

running downs - 2 of the following (Stewart, Hunt, Ward) and 2 of the following (Autry, Sheard, Lewis)

 

passing downs - 2 of the following (Autry, Lewis, Ward) and 2 of the following (Houston, Turay)

[NewColtsFan]

On 5/8/2019 at 6:41 PM, DerekDiggler said:

As I read through this thread I wonder how many actually know the difference between the UT and the NT. 

 

Youll be asking that same question years from now...   some people here learn....   s-l-o-w-l-y.    

 

Very slowly. 

[JPFolks]

On 5/7/2019 at 8:54 AM, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

Is it that big of a concern? I've seen so many posters clamoring for another body or two inside. Is it a depth thing? Outside of Autry, Hunt, Stewart, Tyquan (suspected), they have Johnny Robinson, Jordan Thompson, Shippy, and Jegede as probable depth pieces. I feel like we're good. They didn't allow a 100-yard rusher last year, and finished 8th against the run (ydg), and they should seemingly improve with another year in Flus system, and the additions to the defense. They're all so young, and they're essentially all still developing with the exception of a couple of veteran presences, so they're gonna get better. It's not like they were getting gashed week in and week out, or that they were 26th or 30th in the league, they qualified in the top quarter of the league! Chris Ballard is a really smart guy, and if it were that glaring of a need, wouldn't he have addressed it at least once in the draft and FA? Someone help me understand. 

Though I was one of those asking about a top notch run stuffer, I think it is perfectly clear.  The answer to your bolded question appears to be absolutely not.  

[BlueCrew48]

SUHHHH

[DerekDiggler]

23 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Youll be asking that same question years from now...   some people here learn....   s-l-o-w-l-y.    

 

Very slowly. 

Tbh   Sites like these for the average fan need to have more.....and I say this with zero malice (football for dummies).   A way for people to learn the ins and outs of offense.. defense... and ST’s.   Without feeling embarrassed to ask questions.   And no one making them feel stupid

 

i learned the hard way through ridicule and hard study and I am by no means an expert on any of this stuff.     

 

I would love to be like a Berean and learn from what people teach 

 

on the snide side side of me.     It would slow down stupid posts. Ha

[Jason_]

On 5/8/2019 at 2:42 AM, The Peytonator said:

So let’s look at the names you mentioned....

 

Autry - An exceptionally slight (270 pounds) UT. Someone whose game resembles Raheem Brock and is adequate but not spectacular, a solid role player. 

 

 

I think you're selling Autry short. He had 9 sacks in 12 games from the interior. That's far better than adequate. 

On 5/8/2019 at 2:42 AM, The Peytonator said:

So let’s look at the names you mentioned....

 

Autry - An exceptionally slight (270 pounds) UT. Someone whose game resembles Raheem Brock and is adequate but not spectacular, a solid role player. 

 

 

I think you're selling Autry short. He had 9 sacks in 12 games from the interior. That's far better than adequate. 

[CurBeatElite]

On 5/7/2019 at 7:18 AM, jchandler7 said:

They had Woods last yr (330 lbs) along with Stewart and Ridgeway (305 lbs) to help stuff the run. Right now the only true NT on the roster with any NFL experience is Stewart. I'd really like to see them pick up some depth/competition at the NT position.

 

In a recent press conference, Ballard spoke very highly of Stewart and said he expects him to make a major leap this year.  

 

On 5/7/2019 at 7:23 AM, Scott Pennock said:

Last year we had two 330 pound tackles plus Hunt and Ridgeway to help corral the running game.

 

Now we have one 330 pounder, Hunt and several guys in the 270 range.

 

Both Chicago and Tampa had 2-3 300+ guys to stop the run. Autry and Lewis scream Polian 4-3 defenses to me....

 

I hope I'm wrong and tey stop the run again this year thru scheme.

 

The thing with this D compared to the old Dungy D's, IMO, is we are a lot more athletic behind the front 4.  Also, I think our DL is more well-versed than the Polian/Dungy-era.  Freeney was a top-notch pass-rusher, but he was one of the worst DE's at stopping the run I have ever seen.  I don't think we've seen enough from Turay yet to know if he's more than a 1 trick pony, but otherwise, I think all of our other DE's (while they/outside of Houston may not be elite pass rushers) can help stop the run better than Mathis and Freeney ever could.

 

On 5/7/2019 at 8:26 AM, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

They could've been #1 in both last season and people would still want a NT that weighs 498 lbs, because they're stuck in 1985 Ditka Land. Successful teams are built to score a ton of points these days, and it's no coincidence the 4 highest scoring teams were the last 4 standing last season. It's dynamic playcalling, and Patrick Mahomes, Kyler Murray, and Deshaun Watson that are what this league is gravitating towards. You need a defense full of athletic hybrid players that can do more than just their generic designation; fill a couple of roles. Keep the opposition guessing. It's essentially the defensive answer to today's offensive explosion, and I think Flus, and Ballard as the architect, are at the forefront of the defensive revolution. 

 

Keep in mind, an explosive offense plays a very key role in making the other offense 1-dimensional.  Part of why Freeney/Mathis were so successful in getting sacks was because more often than not (especially on our home turf), we were playing with a lead because Peyton and Co. were putting points on the board.  Teams playing with a lead can focus on pinning their ears back and hitting the QB, as the opposing run game is removed.

 

I am very hopeful, with Luck's new weapons, that our O will figure out how to score early and often.  If we can do that, it makes our run D much less of a concern because teams simply don't focus on establishing the run if they're down 14 points.

 

On 5/8/2019 at 8:40 AM, shastamasta said:

 

Great post. I think Autry looked a bit better than adequate last season...but your assessments overall here are spot on...especially the part about Lewis.

 

Count me out of that high on Lewis group. Lewis is on the BDB hype train for sure...even though he was largely ineffective when he played (especially on the edge). Oddly, Turay isn't...which is interesting to me...because he too was a Ballard draft pick in that same area.

 

But if you watch the tape on Lewis...he was mostly a non-factor...getting blocked out of plays quite often. His only sack as an edge rusher came against a TE.  I think that DAL game gassed everyone's head up. Great game no doubt...but not a good representation. 

 

I can't imagine we see him at edge much this season.

 

I am little more optimistic about him as an UT...because I think he has the strength to do it...and his athleticism will play there. But we will see. He needs to stay healthy and take some major strides this year (same with Turay). Regardless, I would love to see them add another DT before the season.

 

Assuming Turay will make improvements in year 2, and with the addition of Houston, we are much more likely to see Lewis more on the inside.  I don't think Lewis has a huge ceiling, but there were many plays I remember last year where it seemed like Lewis was just a step away from getting to the QB.  I am hoping that is because he wasn't fully comfortable with NFL speed and because he was coming off an injury (I think a fairly serious toe injury), so he wasn't playing at full speed.  If that's the case, I think he's gonna be just fine, especially with most of his reps coming from the interior.  If it is just that he is actually one step too slow, I don't see him making much improvement from what we saw last year.

 

On 5/8/2019 at 9:43 AM, DougDew said:

Agreed, that other post was great and this is too.

 

I look at the hype towards Lewis being sort of the same as the hype towards Hooker.  The love seems to be more than what would be supported by the tape and their accomplishments.  I would say that both are from Ohio State and that there are a lot of OSU fans on this board.  But if I said that I would probably be criticized for the comment not having any merit.

 

A team also needs fatties for short yardage/goal line situations.  

 

Back in the Polian years, he would say that the run game doesn't beat you as much as the passing game.  And the NFL has become more of a passing league since then.  Maybe guys like Brock and Foster would be valued more now than then.  And with PMs offense, the theory was that the defense would be defending the pass more than the run, and the D was built to reflect that.  With Luck/Reich's offense, the same could be said for how the defense should be built.

 

Having said that, I simply don't see where Stewart and Hunt can be relied upon to be the NTs for the entire season.

 

Hooker was on his way to a pro-bowl year before injury derailed him as a rookie.  

 

Last year, PFF had him as the 14th ranked safety in the NFL (with an above average 79.7).  He was used differently in the 'Flus scheme (he was mainly a center fielder as a rookie in a single-high role -- last year the cover 2 employed had him mainly in a double-high role with responsibility for only 1 half of the field).  He didn't have the interception numbers last year, but he was also barely being thrown at because he was very effective at shutting his half of the field down.  Additionally, I think Hooker was still recovering from knee injury a good chunk of last year (at least to me, he seemed to get faster or at least play faster as the season went on, which would be expected as an ACL is usually more than a full year to totally recover from).

 

Here's a good article on Hooker: https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/05/indianapolis-colts-malik-hooker-player-review-2018/

 

I'm not an OSU fan, and have to see a lot more from Lewis before I get too high on him... but I think Hooker, quietly, had a very solid season last year and is living up to his hype.

 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

Only here,  on Colts.com,  could a player like Denico Autry who had 9 sacks in just 12 games be called....  (wait for it...)

 

”adequate”....      

 

Shaking My Damn Head!

 

[jmac_48]

36 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Only here,  on Colts.com,  could a player like Denico Autry who had 9 sacks in just 12 games be called....  (wait for it...)

 

”adequate”....      

 

Shaking My Damn Head!

 

Thanks for my best laugh of the day.

[DougDew]

On 5/15/2019 at 8:49 PM, CurBeatElite said:

Hooker was on his way to a pro-bowl year before injury derailed him as a rookie.  

 

 

... but I think Hooker, quietly, had a very solid season last year and is living up to his hype.

 

 

 

Nonsense.  Nobody should project any rookie to have a pro bowl year based upon 5 games.  He just had a higher level of interceptions at the time, but wasn't elite at anything else.

 

He wasn't ever hyped to simply have a "very solid" season.   He was hyped to be the 7th best player who "fell" to 15.    Very solid is what you get with pick 40.

[NewEra]

I hope our plan isn't to try and repeat the manning years. A defense who could only rush the QB because we try to play with a lead. How many superb owls did that get us when in the playoffs the game slows down and teams actually control the ball and run the ball. 

 

 

[throwing BBZ]

On 5/14/2019 at 11:16 PM, J@son said:

 

I think you're selling Autry short. He had 9 sacks in 12 games from the interior. That's far better than adequate. 

 

I think you're selling Autry short. He had 9 sacks in 12 games from the interior. That's far better than adequate. 

 

 How many hits and hurries did he have?
 What was his grade against the run?
 He got nice sack #'s playing against a lot of bottom 10 offenses.
 That is nice, we will see his stripes better this season. I wish him the best.

[a06cc]

21 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I hope our plan isn't to try and repeat the manning years. A defense who could only rush the QB because we try to play with a lead. How many superb owls did that get us when in the playoffs the game slows down and teams actually control the ball and run the ball. 

 

 

I’m hoping for the same. However let’s let it play out. We’re long and athletic right now so it’s a bit different from Manning era. It does seem with the upgrades on Offense it’s pointing that way. As long as the DT/UT can shot the gap and get into the backfield. Right now let’s just let it play out. 

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, a06cc said:

I’m hoping for the same. However let’s let it play out. We’re long and athletic right now so it’s a bit different from Manning era. It does seem with the upgrades on Offense it’s pointing that way. As long as the DT/UT can shot the gap and get into the backfield. Right now let’s just let it play out. 

That's true, much different defense from that era. These guys were getting after it. But it seemed like at times the top tier offenses moved up and down the field at will. I have faith in the vision and am cool with letting it play out though. 

[Jason_]

9 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 How many hits and hurries did he have?
 What was his grade against the run?
 He got nice sack #'s playing against a lot of bottom 10 offenses.
 That is nice, we will see his stripes better this season. I wish him the best.

 

I'm sure google can get that info for you.  Regardless of who his sacks were against, having 9 from the DT position is still pretty impressive.

[a06cc]

13 minutes ago, NewEra said:

That's true, much different defense from that era. These guys were getting after it. But it seemed like at times the top tier offenses moved up and down the field at will. I have faith in the vision and am cool with letting it play out though. 

As long as our scheme allows the DT/UT to shoot the gap and get into the backfield I think we’ll be fine. Our defense is very simple as Leonard stated. We need to be able to rush with our front four guys. The LBer’s need to be able to clean up. 

[CurBeatElite]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

Nonsense.  Nobody should project any rookie to have a pro bowl year based upon 5 games.  He just had a higher level of interceptions at the time, but wasn't elite at anything else.

 

He wasn't ever hyped to simply have a "very solid" season.   He was hyped to be the 7th best player who "fell" to 15.    Very solid is what you get with pick 40.

 

Hooker had an interception in each of his first 3 starts.  He was defensive rookie of the week on multiple occasions.  He was getting a lot of buzz on major media outlets.  Before he got hurt he was right up there near the league lead in interceptions, which is what defensive backs get voted into the pro-bowl on.  

 

Not sure what you're talking about in your second paragraph, he was on pace to have the most interceptions in the entire NFL or at least be tied.  As a rookie, centerfield-type free safety, that is outstanding, regardless of where you were picked.

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 5/7/2019 at 10:56 AM, MikeCurtis said:

I THINK that we would all agree, if our 1 tech is getting shoved 5 yards back every play...... we are in trouble.

 

That 1 tech better be shooting/penetrating that A gap with regularity.  If not and he's getting pushed 5 yards off the line every play, then it's time for the pine; and maybe cut/the waiver wire

[LockeDown]

Ballard sips coffee and walks out in backyard to great player tree and pulls a couple of defensive linemen.  Goes back inside and rests.

[krunk]

7 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

That 1 tech better be shooting/penetrating that A gap with regularity.  If not and he's getting pushed 5 yards off the line every play, then it's time for the pine; and maybe cut/the waiver wire

People are worried really for no reason. Same way they worried the entire off season, training camp and preseason in 2018 that the defense would be historically bad. Turned out the defense was often times carrying the offense. I think we will be fine with Hunt playing that spot this year along Grover Stewart. They didn't miss a beat when Al Woods got hurt.  I think it was said Jihad Ward can play there also. And remember we found Al Woods off the scrap heap. Shouldn't be too hard to find a guy like Woods if needed. A guy like Danny Shelton comes to mind for example.

[needanoline63]

Grover Stewart looks like ndamunkong suh a little bit. Just wish he played like him. We need a true DT/NT, I’d be surprised if we had a run defense in the top 15 this year.

[DougDew]

15 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

Hooker had an interception in each of his first 3 starts.  He was defensive rookie of the week on multiple occasions.  He was getting a lot of buzz on major media outlets.  Before he got hurt he was right up there near the league lead in interceptions, which is what defensive backs get voted into the pro-bowl on.  

 

Not sure what you're talking about in your second paragraph, he was on pace to have the most interceptions in the entire NFL or at least be tied.  As a rookie, centerfield-type free safety, that is outstanding, regardless of where you were picked.

Anybody can have the most anything after 3 weeks.  You're really stretching the concept of forecasting to be essentially calling Hooker a pro bowl player during his rookie year after a few games. 

 

Sorry, to this point, he has not lived up to his rookie pre-season hype, either due to previous injury or current scheme, or maybe simply not being that good.  Nice player so far.  That's about it.  Maybe he'll get there.  Maybe he'll get a franchise designation or a top 5 S contract in a couple of years.  Maybe not.  We'll see.

[CoachLite]

At this point, rather than speculating where our weakest point is, we should try and be patient, and see what our interior line play will actually do. Patience - that's hard for fans.

[indyagent17]

Why are some of you using UT as a defensive line position. I know it means utility and it means a player can play two positions but when referring the actual playing positions its outdated

[MikeCurtis]

4 hours ago, CoachLite said:

At this point, rather than speculating where our weakest point is, we should try and be patient, and see what our interior line play will actually do. Patience - that's hard for fans.

Agreed.........

 

I do think we add to the 1 tech position, but I dont expect a big name FA

 

On passing downs we have more than enough interior DL to do the job

 

On running downs, I hope that one our newbies (UDFA) can be part of the rotation

 

Or..... we pick up spot player 

 

OR..... Ward gets time at the spot......

[Jason_]

2 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

Why are some of you using UT as a defensive line position. I know it means utility and it means a player can play two positions but when referring the actual playing positions its outdated

 

 

UT means under tackle... Aka a DT playing the 3 technique 

[indyagent17]

Okay thanks man I've never heard that term before and I've watched a lot of football in my time.

[rock8591]

LOL Football 101.

 

Just like R. Kelly is referring to the rapper, not Ryan Kelly, even in the context of this forum.

 

And just like the term "minority owner" refers to someone owning less than a 50% share of a corporation, not referring to anyone's background or makeup.

[rock8591]

12 hours ago, needanoline63 said:

Grover Stewart looks like ndamunkong suh a little bit. Just wish he played like him. We need a true DT/NT, I’d be surprised if we had a run defense in the top 15 this year.

 

We already are #8 in run defense last year, and that was with a relatively trash roster at the beginning of the year, compared to the end of the year to present.

 

I'd be surprised if we are not a top 5 run D this year.

[WoolMagnet]

On 5/8/2019 at 9:41 PM, DerekDiggler said:

As I read through this thread I wonder how many actually know the difference between the UT and the NT. 

Thats an easy one.

One has a U in it and one has an N.

[krunk]

Between Hunt and Stewart we should be okay.  I'm sure Ballard has some names in mind and is monitoring the situation if not.

[krunk]

I kind of laugh at the Suh comments.  If Suh "laying down" gets you 4 sacks, a whole bunch of run stuffing, pressure on the pocket, 59 tackles(like he did last year) and whatever else he usually brings that's positive then I will take that "laying down" for 1 season for sure because Al Woods the Colt Guy didn't get us that and I like Al Woods.  I think that would be a tough group to deal with between Suh and Margus Hunt.  I'm all for seeing what Grover can do with extended playing time. However I don't have a problem with signing Suh as long as we can strike a deal that is favorable to the Colts.  If Ballard can't do that then we stay with who we have or whatever that next option is. I'm definitely not turning over in my grave over a 1 year rental.

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

However I don't have a problem with signing Suh as long as we can strike a deal that is favorable to the Colts. 

 

That's the rub.  I've heard he's not 'settling' for any 1 year (did that already w/Rams for 14.5 million earned), incentive driven, or prove it deals.  So what is favorable? To the Colts and acceptable to Suh? He has the means to wait it out until someone becomes desperate for him, too.

 

I'm not going to worry about it either.

[krunk]

6 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

That's the rub.  I've heard he's not 'settling' for any 1 year (did that already w/Rams for 14.5 million earned), incentive driven, or prove it deals.  So what is favorable? To the Colts and acceptable to Suh? He has the means to wait it out until someone becomes desperate for him, too.

 

I'm not going to worry about it either.

Yeah if it happens it happens. If it doesn't it doesn't.

The financial part of it probably won't come together in all likelihood.

But if it did I'd be down for it.

[CurBeatElite]

On 5/18/2019 at 6:46 AM, DougDew said:

Anybody can have the most anything after 3 weeks.  You're really stretching the concept of forecasting to be essentially calling Hooker a pro bowl player during his rookie year after a few games. 

 

Sorry, to this point, he has not lived up to his rookie pre-season hype, either due to previous injury or current scheme, or maybe simply not being that good.  Nice player so far.  That's about it.  Maybe he'll get there.  Maybe he'll get a franchise designation or a top 5 S contract in a couple of years.  Maybe not.  We'll see.

 

He was mostly a centerfielder as a rookie, and yes after 6-7 weeks he was well on his way to the pro bowl.

 

Last year, he was asked to shut down one side of the field, and he did that very well.

[aaron11]

5 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

He was mostly a centerfielder as a rookie, and yes after 6-7 weeks he was well on his way to the pro bowl.

 

Last year, he was asked to shut down one side of the field, and he did that very well.

he might have made the most important play of the season too.  he probably wont rack up huge interception numbers in a cover two scheme, and smart QBs like brady wont even test him 

 

we should all be happy with how his is panning out though, even if he never becomes a super elite safety.  he does his job and thats good enough 

[CurBeatElite]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

he might have made the most important play of the season too.  he probably wont rack up huge interception numbers in a cover two scheme, and smart QBs like brady wont even test him 

 

we should all be happy with how his is panning out though, even if he never becomes a super elite safety.  he does his job and thats good enough 

 

That is the hard thing to gauge in DBs in general, I think.... most pro-bowl voters are looking at INTs, but IMO that is a hard stat to go by.  If you have a lot of INTs, it usually means you're getting thrown at a lot.  There were many QBs who simply just avoided throwing Hooker's way last year, because he had his side of the field pretty much locked down the vast majority of the time....  to me, that's a better indicator of an effective DB than high INT numbers.

[DougDew]

11 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

That is the hard thing to gauge in DBs in general, I think.... most pro-bowl voters are looking at INTs, but IMO that is a hard stat to go by.  If you have a lot of INTs, it usually means you're getting thrown at a lot.  There were many QBs who simply just avoided throwing Hooker's way last year, because he had his side of the field pretty much locked down the vast majority of the time....  to me, that's a better indicator of an effective DB than high INT numbers.

The dollar value of a contract will be a good indicator.