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Greg Cosell on the Colts draft

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2 minutes ago, stitches said:

Cosell is my favorite football analyst out there. There is noone else that comes close IMO.

Say it ain't so stitches...

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23 minutes ago, stitches said:

Cosell is my favorite football analyst out there. There is noone else that comes close IMO. Here's you can listen to Greg Cosell on Dan Dakich's show yesterday:

https://omny.fm/shows/the-dan-dakich-show/greg-cosell-breaks-down-the-nfl-draft

 

-Rock Ya-Sin - doesn't like him as much as Ballard does. He's not a plug and play guy... Colts probably see him that way, though. Can be a good player down the road.

-Khari Willis - liked him, strong safety type(Dakich stopped him and went on a tangent after Cosell said he liked him)

-Marvell Tell - great measurables, great length, has corner length but hasn't played corner. He has reps against slot receivers where he did well. He can be interchangeable safety 

-Ben Banogu - intriguing player, not pure pass-rusher, not a bender, not flexible.. the more you watch him the more you like him ... good athlete, fluid movement. Glue guy. Not a guy who would get 15 sacks a year, but he's assignment-disciplined, plays with intensity. You hope as he plays more you can develop him into a better pass-rusher. He had some good reps inside against guards. Like his playing personality and disciplined approach. 

-Parris Campbell - great speed, he was used as a shallow cross type receiver - a lot of crossers, not a lot of vertical routes, but with that speed you would like to think that there is potential there as vertical receiver. He's relatively big too, pretty good size. Multiple weapon! Has to learn a lot about the nuances and details of route-running, because he didn't do that at Ohio State. Very intriguing prospect, though. 

-Bobby Okereke - really liked him, really good prospect. Athletic kid, fits what the new NFL looks for in a linebacker - probably 43 WILL - athleticism, quickness, range. He's at his best when he can be kept clean. Ideally you would like to see him replace Anthony Walker at some point and be the second stacked linebacker next to Leonard (my note here- his assessment of Okereke is of note because Cosell was the analyst who was the highest on Leonard last year and thought he was a future star before the draft... he is heaping similar even if a little subdued praises for Okereke).

-EJ Speed - long, rangy... can run... will play special teams... maybe not this year, but he could be a starter some time in the future. Drafted him in the 5th round from a small school nobody's heard about. This means there was something about him that they really liked. They took SEC DE 35 picks later. They are telling you that they like the small school guy much better than the SEC player... 

 

 

On a side note- god I hate Dan Dakich. I just listened to Cosell's interview on Tennessee radio and it was night and day, he gave them so much more detail and better analysis simply because their host wanted to listen and didn't interject so much. Dakich jumps frantically from one spot to the next, doesn't let the guest finish his statements, interjects and gets sidetracked instead of letting his guest talk.  

 

I don’t think Ballard considers Rock a plug and play guy.   That basically means starting week one.   And Ballard was pretty candid about saying Rock needs some NFL coaching and more experience.    He’s going to play, but I’m not expecting him to start right out of the gate.. 

 

By the way...   thanks for all the rough translation.  This was a great surprise to read this morning. 

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Pretty much where I am at. Not as high on Willis...but then again...I am pretty biased against Ss where coverage (and athleticism) might be a concern. That's why I am much higher on Tell. But we don't really know how they plan to deploy these players.

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16 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

The beauty of this draft is nobody HAS to start right away.....

 

They just need to contribute and make more and more plays as the season wears on.

The longer they play together the better they will get.

For those who think a couple may be starters already have to remember positions will have to be earned. Nothing is set in stone except our all pro starters.

It's going to be sweet when the time comes our talent level don't have a big drop off when we have an injury or when we rotate players.

I truly believe we are going to have a defense that is fast, swarming and a little nasty at times.

All it takes is practice, practice and some more practice. :strong:

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27 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

The beauty of this draft is nobody HAS to start right away.....

 

They just need to contribute and make more and more plays as the season wears on.

Exactly!

 

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55 minutes ago, stitches said:

Cosell is my favorite football analyst out there. There is noone else that comes close IMO. Here's you can listen to Greg Cosell on Dan Dakich's show yesterday:

https://omny.fm/shows/the-dan-dakich-show/greg-cosell-breaks-down-the-nfl-draft

On a side note- god I hate Dan Dakich. I just listened to Cosell's interview on Tennessee radio and it was night and day, he gave them so much more detail and better analysis simply because their host wanted to listen and didn't interject so much. Dakich jumps frantically from one spot to the next, doesn't let the guest finish his statements, interjects and gets sidetracked instead of letting his guest talk.  

I try and try to listen to Dakich just because of some of the guest he does manage to get on air with but 3 minutes into his show I have to either turn it off or change to a different station.

He is so aggravating it hurts my mind. :hairout:

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Yeah Dakich is annoying, he knows college basketball but outside of that he rambles and is rude to callers when it comes to other sports. Some of his opinions are so far fetched that they are mind boggling. Maybe he does it for ratings?

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2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah Dakich is annoying, he knows college basketball but outside of that he rambles and is rude to callers when it comes to other sports. Some of his opinions are so far fetched that they are mind boggling. Maybe he does it for ratings?

I think he tries to groom the questions that are ask and when someone don't go in that direction he cuts them off by being rude.

I am not knocking those who like him because it takes all kind.

I listen to JMV if I happen to be driving but not anymore than that. JMV seems to have a pretty good grip on what the Colts are doing.

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2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I think he tries to groom the questions that are ask and when someone don't go in that direction he cuts them off by being rude.

I am not knocking those who like him because it takes all kind.

I listen to JMV if I happen to be driving but not anymore than that. JMV seems to have a pretty good grip on what the Colts are doing.

I love the JMV show, he knows Colts football.

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I like guys like Cosell and DJ who do deep dives, not just repeat the same old sound bites. 

 

I guess Speed impressed Ballard so much at his private workout that he was worried someone else would snatch him.  Tarlton State was a D2 powerhouse, for what it's worth.

 

No one thought much of a prospect out of Alabama A&M about 16 years ago when the Colts drafted Robert Mathis.

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55 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

Pretty much where I am at. Not as high on Willis...but then again...I am pretty biased against Ss where coverage (and athleticism) might be a concern. That's why I am much higher on Tell. But we don't really know how they plan to deploy these players.

 

Relative to most box safeties, Willis actually has pretty good coverage skills. And his athleticism isn't bad at all, so I'm not sure where you got that... 

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2 minutes ago, BigQungus said:

 

Relative to most box safeties, Willis actually has pretty good coverage skills. And his athleticism isn't bad at all, so I'm not sure where you got that... 

I was pretty sure they rated him as the best coverage SS for TE's in the draft....

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59 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

Pretty much where I am at. Not as high on Willis...but then again...I am pretty biased against Ss where coverage (and athleticism) might be a concern. That's why I am much higher on Tell. But we don't really know how they plan to deploy these players.

 

Well...   Ballard says Tell’s first look will be at corner.   I suppose free safety would be the fallback.    Willis would appear to start at Strong...

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1 hour ago, stitches said:

Cosell is my favorite football analyst out there. There is noone else that comes close IMO. Here's you can listen to Greg Cosell on Dan Dakich's show yesterday:

https://omny.fm/shows/the-dan-dakich-show/greg-cosell-breaks-down-the-nfl-draft

 

-Rock Ya-Sin - doesn't like him as much as Ballard does. He's not a plug and play guy... Colts probably see him that way, though. Can be a good player down the road.

-Khari Willis - liked him, strong safety type(Dakich stopped him and went on a tangent after Cosell said he liked him)

-Marvell Tell - great measurables, great length, has corner length but hasn't played corner. He has reps against slot receivers where he did well. He can be interchangeable safety 

-Ben Banogu - intriguing player, not pure pass-rusher, not a bender, not flexible.. the more you watch him the more you like him ... good athlete, fluid movement. Glue guy. Not a guy who would get 15 sacks a year, but he's assignment-disciplined, plays with intensity. You hope as he plays more you can develop him into a better pass-rusher. He had some good reps inside against guards. Like his playing personality and disciplined approach. 

-Parris Campbell - great speed, he was used as a shallow cross type receiver - a lot of crossers, not a lot of vertical routes, but with that speed you would like to think that there is potential there as vertical receiver. He's relatively big too, pretty good size. Multiple weapon! Has to learn a lot about the nuances and details of route-running, because he didn't do that at Ohio State. Very intriguing prospect, though. 

-Bobby Okereke - really liked him, really good prospect. Athletic kid, fits what the new NFL looks for in a linebacker - probably 43 WILL - athleticism, quickness, range. He's at his best when he can be kept clean. Ideally you would like to see him replace Anthony Walker at some point and be the second stacked linebacker next to Leonard (my note here- his assessment of Okereke is of note because Cosell was the analyst who was the highest on Leonard last year and thought he was a future star before the draft... he is heaping similar even if a little subdued praises for Okereke).

-EJ Speed - long, rangy... can run... will play special teams... maybe not this year, but he could be a starter some time in the future. Drafted him in the 5th round from a small school nobody's heard about. This means there was something about him that they really liked. They took SEC DE 35 picks later. They are telling you that they like the small school guy much better than the SEC player... 

 

 

On a side note- god I hate Dan Dakich. I just listened to Cosell's interview on Tennessee radio and it was night and day, he gave them so much more detail and better analysis simply because their host wanted to listen and didn't interject so much. Dakich jumps frantically from one spot to the next, doesn't let the guest finish his statements, interjects and gets sidetracked instead of letting his guest talk.  

I sure would hope that Dwight Freeney and Rob Mathis could mold this clay of talent. Believe in Blue!

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Thanks for sharing @stitches . I like Cosell too. He's comfortable about talking both about strengths and weakness and doesn't go full sunshine like a lot of folks. Very realistic. And I hate DD too. He acts like a jilted wife.

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Ballard grabs prototype,  system fits and gets depth.  If a scout says our guy isn’t a superstar but he gets the job done, that’s okay.  If every single player gets their job done, we’re in business.  Get 3 or 4 extraordinary guys and we are really in business. We should be close to that at the end of the season. 

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I always have a mixed opinion whenver the Colts draft someone but the more I watch film and look into the players Ballard drafted, the more I fall in love with the player.

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10 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

The beauty of this draft is nobody HAS to start right away.....

 

They just need to contribute and make more and more plays as the season wears on.

I remember before last years draft I was confident we would be able to draft 4-5 starters because of how bad our roster was. This year I’m hoping we can get 2 day 1 starters because we are pretty deep at most positions 

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14 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don’t think Ballard considers Rock a plug and play guy.   That basically means starting week one.   And Ballard was pretty candid about saying Rock needs some NFL coaching and more experience.    He’s going to play, but I’m not expecting him to start right out of the gate.. 

 

By the way...   thanks for all the rough translation.  This was a great surprise to read this morning. 

I think you're way off on Rock. He'll start opposite Desir as the no2 CB on day 1 and finish the year as our best CB. He didn't start playing football until 11th grade and got drafted 34th overall based on a huge year. He learns quickly and produces quickly. Don't underestimate him as a day one starter because he has to learn zone coverage. That won't be a problem for him. Kid is elite.

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12 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

The longer they play together the better they will get.

For those who think a couple may be starters already have to remember positions will have to be earned. Nothing is set in stone except our all pro starters.

It's going to be sweet when the time comes our talent level don't have a big drop off when we have an injury or when we rotate players.

I truly believe we are going to have a defense that is fast, swarming and a little nasty at times.

All it takes is practice, practice and some more practice. :strong:

Your post made me think of an interesting question to ponder: 

 

Which 2018 position starters (not spot starters, I am talking primary guys) are most likely to be beaten out by a rookie?  And does anyone have a surprise starter losing their job to a rookie or UDFA? The answer I think I have is ZERO.  But I am sure some out there may think differently? (And I am not counting Rogers as a starting WR or something similar to that).  I expect some people will likely jump on CB and Rock Ya Sin replacing Kenny Moore since some think we won't even make our roster.  It's possible he'll take the spot I suppose and Kenny will focus on the slot, but I don't think it is automatic.  

 

Anyone? 

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1 hour ago, JPFolks said:

Your post made me think of an interesting question to ponder: 

 

Which 2018 position starters (not spot starters, I am talking primary guys) are most likely to be beaten out by a rookie?  And does anyone have a surprise starter losing their job to a rookie or UDFA? The answer I think I have is ZERO.  But I am sure some out there may think differently? (And I am not counting Rogers as a starting WR or something similar to that).  I expect some people will likely jump on CB and Rock Ya Sin replacing Kenny Moore since some think we won't even make our roster.  It's possible he'll take the spot I suppose and Kenny will focus on the slot, but I don't think it is automatic.  

 

Anyone? 

Today I will agree and say zero but ask me again after week two of the preseason.

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2 hours ago, JPFolks said:

Your post made me think of an interesting question to ponder: 

 

Which 2018 position starters (not spot starters, I am talking primary guys) are most likely to be beaten out by a rookie?  And does anyone have a surprise starter losing their job to a rookie or UDFA? The answer I think I have is ZERO.  But I am sure some out there may think differently? (And I am not counting Rogers as a starting WR or something similar to that).  I expect some people will likely jump on CB and Rock Ya Sin replacing Kenny Moore since some think we won't even make our roster.  It's possible he'll take the spot I suppose and Kenny will focus on the slot, but I don't think it is automatic.  

 

Anyone? 

Wilson may be the one getting replaced

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Rocky will be CB1 on day one, with Desir as CB2. In today's NFL, Nickel CB's are basically starters, so we will see lots of Kenny Moore at CB3

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1 hour ago, Matthew Gilbert said:

Today I will agree and say zero but ask me again after week two of the preseason.

IMO it is training camp and not pre season that determines who starts, stays or gets cut.

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3 hours ago, JPFolks said:

Your post made me think of an interesting question to ponder: 

 

Which 2018 position starters (not spot starters, I am talking primary guys) are most likely to be beaten out by a rookie?  And does anyone have a surprise starter losing their job to a rookie or UDFA? The answer I think I have is ZERO.  But I am sure some out there may think differently? (And I am not counting Rogers as a starting WR or something similar to that).  I expect some people will likely jump on CB and Rock Ya Sin replacing Kenny Moore since some think we won't even make our roster.  It's possible he'll take the spot I suppose and Kenny will focus on the slot, but I don't think it is automatic.  

 

Anyone? 

That's a good question to ponder.

I know most are super excited about a couple of players drafted and think that they are starters.

I'm not going out on that limb because those spots are earned in training camp and not right after the draft.

This time last year no one even gave Maniac a second thought about being a starter and he ends up being DROY. (none of us needs to quit our day time jobs) haha

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15 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

IMO it is training camp and not pre season that determines who starts, stays or gets cut.

It's a combination of the two but I can agree that camp is a bigger deal for earning a starting spot. I'm saying after week two of preseason because I'll know a hell of a lot more by then about the way the roster and depth chart is shaping up. If anyone is predicting now, without actually seeing any of the rookies play at the NFL level is kind of just throwing darts. The Colts didn't draft any "can't miss guys" IMO. I do really like the Colts draft class but there are a lot of question marks at this time. 

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3 hours ago, JPFolks said:

Your post made me think of an interesting question to ponder: 

 

Which 2018 position starters (not spot starters, I am talking primary guys) are most likely to be beaten out by a rookie?  And does anyone have a surprise starter losing their job to a rookie or UDFA? The answer I think I have is ZERO.  But I am sure some out there may think differently? (And I am not counting Rogers as a starting WR or something similar to that).  I expect some people will likely jump on CB and Rock Ya Sin replacing Kenny Moore since some think we won't even make our roster.  It's possible he'll take the spot I suppose and Kenny will focus on the slot, but I don't think it is automatic.  

 

Anyone? 

Wilson came on strong at the end of last year and he is 22 ,the same age as Rock, and he's a former 3rd. rd. pick who has two years experience.   And Moore was reported to be one of the players that could be extended this off season and still could be.  Nothing would surprise me when it comes to who our starters could be at CB.  Really wide open IMO.  The other position starters that could be in trouble I think are Walker and Gaethers.   There rookie competition would have to really excel and surprise similar to what Leonard did last year.  Not likely right now but when camp starts who knows.  

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19 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Wilson came on strong at the end of last year and he is 22 ,the same age as Rock, and he's a former 3rd. rd. pick who has two years experience.   And Moore was reported to be one of the players that could be extended this off season and still could be.  Nothing would surprise me when it comes to who our starters could be at CB.  Really wide open IMO.  The other position starters that could be in trouble I think are Walker and Gaethers.   There rookie competition would have to really excel and surprise similar to what Leonard did last year.  Not likely right now but when camp starts who knows.  

 

 I see this as spot on. 

Right now we are about 8-9 deep in good secondary players. 
We will need them all.

 By seasons end Geathers and Walker may still be good at there jobs and still see many fewer snaps. cb added some GUYS for sure.

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I'm not low on Rock at all but I don't think I'm as sky high as some of his bigger fans are. I think he's going to have some growing pains. Some CB's don't have trouble acclimating to the league but most of them do, and I kinda see him having a very up and down season. Fortunately he's got a great attitude/work ethic and I am hopeful he'll eventually reach his ceiling.

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7 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Wilson came on strong at the end of last year and he is 22 ,the same age as Rock, and he's a former 3rd. rd. pick who has two years experience.   And Moore was reported to be one of the players that could be extended this off season and still could be.  Nothing would surprise me when it comes to who our starters could be at CB.  Really wide open IMO.  The other position starters that could be in trouble I think are Walker and Gaethers.   There rookie competition would have to really excel and surprise similar to what Leonard did last year.  Not likely right now but when camp starts who knows.  

You know that is a great point I don't hear much about.  Rock is an older than normal rookie and few people are as young as Wilson was.  I recall Ballard, somewhere in the recent past, commented on DBs often taking 3 seasons to fully mature.  If that is true, then Wilson could be hitting his stride and 2 years experience does make a huge difference.  

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I know it's early but I expect Roc, Okereke, and Campbell to all start week one at the Chargers. And get contributions from Willis, Green, and undrafted rookie, Peters also.

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On 5/3/2019 at 7:36 AM, richard pallo said:

Wilson came on strong at the end of last year and he is 22 ,the same age as Rock, and he's a former 3rd. rd. pick 

I agree with your take and it’s not a big deal certainly doesn’t change anything but Q was a 2nd round pick 46th overall I believe 

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11 minutes ago, akcolt said:

I agree with your take and it’s not a big deal certainly doesn’t change anything but Q was a 2nd round pick 46th overall I believe 

Q who? 

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6 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Q who? 

I think he's referring to Quincy Wilson using the Q abbreviation.  

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6 hours ago, akcolt said:

I agree with your take and it’s not a big deal certainly doesn’t change anything but Q was a 2nd round pick 46th overall I believe 

You're right.  I stand corrected.   Thanks!

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Rock’s  switch to Temple and earning a single digit number shows his mentality and maturity while Wilson wasn’t even studying film until Mitchell told him how. I just think Rock is bound for greater things than Wilson.

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On 5/3/2019 at 1:00 PM, JPFolks said:

Your post made me think of an interesting question to ponder: 

 

Which 2018 position starters (not spot starters, I am talking primary guys) are most likely to be beaten out by a rookie?  And does anyone have a surprise starter losing their job to a rookie or UDFA? The answer I think I have is ZERO.  But I am sure some out there may think differently? (And I am not counting Rogers as a starting WR or something similar to that).  I expect some people will likely jump on CB and Rock Ya Sin replacing Kenny Moore since some think we won't even make our roster.  It's possible he'll take the spot I suppose and Kenny will focus on the slot, but I don't think it is automatic.  

 

Anyone? 

 

All rookies start climbing from the very bottom, except maybe guys like Nelson. Even Hooker, Leonard were "rooks" and had to earn every snap. So yes, nothing is automatic, as nothing should be automatic. However, looking at the strenght and weaknesses of a roster, one can have an opinion on who will jump as far as day 1 starting, and who will need more time. I'm more on your side, I think - barring injuries - none of this year's rookies will be starters in game 1. Some of them might earn bigger roles, some of them smaller, but none of them will be starter.

 

Which is, btw not a bad sign. 2019 is nothing like 2017 or 2018 were. Last year for example the Colts didn't have ONE proven starter at LB, didn't have a #2 CB, #2 RB, the right side of the OL was a big question mark, no one knew how the dline will look like. In addition to that, the Colts had new HC, OC, DC, new schemes, so even those who were probable starters (Hankins, Simon, Anderson) ended up being cut/traded, because schematic non-fits. 2019 is very different. The Colts have their starters at almost every position (I dare to say EVERY position), and not just starters, but at a number of positions, they have nice rotation as well. So it's way more difficult for a rookie to climb up the ladder. Even for players picked in the 2nd round. So, I think there will be 5, maybe 6 rookies who will make the roster, and contribute. Some of them may earn starting spot by the end of the season, if everything goes well for them. (My bet is on Ya-Sin, Willis and maybe Okereke.) The others will play in rotation / special teams. (Regarding Campbell, I think he'll carve out a nice role, but I consider the Colts a 1-2 personnel offense, so only 2 WR-s, Hilton and Funches as starters.)

 

Btw, I don't think 2018 will repeat itself, when ALL of our rookies made either the roster or PS - most of them the roster -, except Cain, who would've made it too if he stayed healthy.. This year, 1-2-3 guys won't make it. Neither the roster, nor the PS. And I think that' fine. The Colts have a good roster.

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